Extending Pathologists' Lifespan with FMD?

[LADoc00]

Im thinking about how our lifespans are significantly reduced due to a sedentary microscope based career brought up in other thread. Perhaps some methods to mitigate this for new residents.

Im listening to the TED talks and reading the papers of some of these guys like Valter Longo@USC.

Has anyone done an a real fasting program while practicing path? Something like 5 days/mo of zero caloric intake/only water? Im curious but dont want to do something too extreme as I work mostly alone so if I pass out or hallucinate while looking at slides, I dont have any back up.

I may start doing this and report back. I honestly wish I had an animal model like a chimpanzee who would sit and be stationary hunched over a mini monkey microscope or something for 8 hrs/day so I test this legitimately.

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[tiredguy]

Based on how bad the pathology job market allegedly is, it sounds like experimenting on actual pathologists might be cheaper than using chimpanzees.

 

[cmz]

LaDoc00, I know this goes against your business model... do more rapid onsite evaluations. You'll be getting out of your chair so much performing thyroid FNA, EBUS and EUS adequacy checks that you'll be totally ripped.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Forget fasting, worry about blood clots. I have lost count of the number of pathologists I know that have had DVT and PE, including myself. One in our group fell over dead and I nearly joined him.

It can't be said enough...GET A STANDING DESK. Even rapid adequacy assessments are being done at our desks anymore (not at our institution thankfully) thanks to telepathology.

 

[darknecrosforte]

I've got two of the electric ones from here Standing Desks & Healthy Office Furniture | Stand Up Desk Store and they have been outstanding over the last year. I wish the motor was faster, but they have nice, wide designs that allow for a desk treadmill on one side like Buy the Best Treadmill Desks & Under Desk Treadmills - iMovR as well as a seat under the same desk. The one I got 18 months ago isn't too loud and the max speed is high enough to not be useless, but low enough that the motor doesn't burn out with 40+ hours of weekly use. My psoas tightness is much better after using this while reading.

 

[LADoc00]

Holy crap those treadmill desks are awesome!

Thank you!!

 

[stickyshift]

LaDoc00, I know this goes against your business model... do more rapid onsite evaluations. You'll be getting out of your chair so much performing thyroid FNA, EBUS and EUS adequacy checks that you'll be totally ripped.

That's what I do at my job and I've gained only 5 pounds over 18 years of practice!

 

[coroner]

A sedentary lifestyle has also been proven to increase levels of inflammatory markers in the body which can promote various deleterious health effects.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

A sedentary lifestyle has also been proven to increase levels of inflammatory markers in the body which can promote various deleterious health effects.

Moderation is the key to working out and having a sedentary job. The combination of endurance athletics and pathologist is a BAD cocktail. I was in the best shape of my life trying to get down to Olympic marathon trials time when I was struck down. Too much inflammation from 100 mile weeks and sitting.

Good luck trying to concentrate while using a treadmill desk. It will make you a lot less productive. Might make you kind of smelly from sweating also.

 

[darknecrosforte]

The treadmill is good for prolonged reading specifically. It only goes 1-2.5 mph, so there should be no sweating after the initial couple of uses.

You should only he using it ~30 mins at a time to keep your psoas muscles from shrinking so they don't pull on your lumbar vertebrae as hard from all the sitting. After 30 mins of treadmill, you can just stand/stretch for 30 more minutes while reading, and then do 30-60 minutes of seated work. The treadmill interface even keeps track of this for you, if needed.

As for working out, the most time-efficient style just so happens to be the least inflammatory, physiologically at least. Strength training. I keep these adjustable dumbbells by my desk and do a M-F: Legs, Chest, Upper back, Lower back, Shoulders split in the morning, never to failure, low reps. Focusing on "microtears" and hypertrophy can be almost as inflammatory as the endurance guy's routine. The strength training will focus on developing motor recruitment pathways and will have a long term benefit of increased lean muscle mass after you've maxed on CNS-related strength gains.

Adjustable 90 lbs dumbbell set for space efficiency:
Amazon product

 

[LADoc00]

The treadmill is good for prolonged reading specifically. It only goes 1-2.5 mph, so there should be no sweating after the initial couple of uses.

You should only he using it ~30 mins at a time to keep your psoas muscles from shrinking so they don't pull on your lumbar vertebrae as hard from all the sitting. After 30 mins of treadmill, you can just stand/stretch for 30 more minutes while reading, and then do 30-60 minutes of seated work. The treadmill interface even keeps track of this for you, if needed.

As for working out, the most time-efficient style just so happens to be the least inflammatory, physiologically at least. Strength training. I keep these adjustable dumbbells by my desk and do a M-F: Legs, Chest, Upper back, Lower back, Shoulders split in the morning, never to failure, low reps. Focusing on "microtears" and hypertrophy can be almost as inflammatory as the endurance guy's routine. The strength training will focus on developing motor recruitment pathways and will have a long term benefit of increased lean muscle mass after you've maxed on CNS-related strength gains.

Adjustable 90 lbs dumbbell set for space efficiency:
Amazon product

Oh wow...I feel the hand of kismet here. I was thinking the same thing about my work outs. I had been a stable 180lbs at 6'1" about a year ago. I could have gotten leaner but at 10.1%BF felt solid, but I then embarked on an epic weight program 7days week, 60-75min of 5-10 rep heavy lifting and supplements and shot up to 201lbs now. I feel almost too big and yes there is a thing. I also feel I maybe wayyyy too pro inflammatory for my age, where maybe I could weather 7day a week heavy days at 20 yo, I cant now. I even began looking at the dark side and considering testos time release implants or something to restore an age advantage in the gym, but then thought this is crazy. I need to focus on longevity, feeling solid and not being an alpha gorilla in the bar scene trying to win over hypergamy obsessed females. But old habits die hard.

If I had a guardian angel giving me advice at the perfect time, it maybe you.

TYVM bud.

 

[SEpathguy]

I've got two of the electric ones from here Standing Desks & Healthy Office Furniture | Stand Up Desk Store and they have been outstanding over the last year. I wish the motor was faster, but they have nice, wide designs that allow for a desk treadmill on one side like Buy the Best Treadmill Desks & Under Desk Treadmills - iMovR as well as a seat under the same desk. The one I got 18 months ago isn't too loud and the max speed is high enough to not be useless, but low enough that the motor doesn't burn out with 40+ hours of weekly use. My psoas tightness is much better after using this while reading.

Thanks! I'd been considering something like this. We're moving offices in the next 6-12 months and will get new office furniture. I'll push for this. So it doesn't bother you trying to sign out cases while standing / walking?

 

[darknecrosforte]

Thanks! I'd been considering something like this. We're moving offices in the next 6-12 months and will get new office furniture. I'll push for this. So it doesn't bother you trying to sign out cases while standing / walking?

I'm an older 2nd year med student, just to clarify. Interested in path or psych. But I've had both a single and double tier 60" wide desk from the first link and the iMovr treadmill for 18 months. I can't imagine signing out cases while walking lol. But doing other work, probably.

Since I'm 5'7, I prefer the 1.4 mph setting because I like to take ~30 long strides per minute (to stretch my hips). If I go down to 1.2 mph, I can type reports while walking. Usually, if I'm using my mouse, I'll just stand. The treadmill is 28" wide, so you have enough space for the treadmill and a chair/standing space under the same desk. I'll slide my laptop over to the treadmill side and back, but dual screens let you be lazier. The double tier desk you see on the left is at max height. It takes 20 secs to rise to max and 15 secs to lower from max. You should expect to not be able to work while walking, but I was able to do simple work after getting used to it and being less productive over a month or so.

 

[Amylacea]

Have you found a standing desk that will hold a heavy (Olympus BX41) microscope without the pesky middle support pole? I have looked, but the ones that will support this weight are thousands of dollars. Also looking for a standing desk converter- the lift-able surface sits on top of an existing desk- that will support the scope. Any recommendations?

 

[darknecrosforte]

Have you found a standing desk that will hold a heavy (Olympus BX41) microscope without the pesky middle support pole? I have looked, but the ones that will support this weight are thousands of dollars. Also looking for a standing desk converter- the lift-able surface sits on top of an existing desk- that will support the scope. Any recommendations?

Electric converters generally max out at 40 lbs, so that won't work. The strongest manual converters I've seen are up to 55 lbs, so that may not work with the entire setup. As for the desks, the electric 60" single-tiered desks from the standupdeskstore are rated to handle 155 lbs and have no middle support pole. I just tested my own setup with 170 lbs and it still went up, but slower. Not bad for ~$550. What's the total weight of what you want on the desk?

 

[gungho]

Im thinking about how our lifespans are significantly reduced due to a sedentary microscope based career brought up in other thread. Perhaps some methods to mitigate this for new residents.

Im listening to the TED talks and reading the papers of some of these guys like Valter Longo@USC.

Has anyone done an a real fasting program while practicing path? Something like 5 days/mo of zero caloric intake/only water? Im curious but dont want to do something too extreme as I work mostly alone so if I pass out or hallucinate while looking at slides, I dont have any back up.

I may start doing this and report back. I honestly wish I had an animal model like a chimpanzee who would sit and be stationary hunched over a mini monkey microscope or something for 8 hrs/day so I test this legitimately.

I've been practicing a 8/16 hour cycle-limit eating to 8 hr period/day. there are a number of different regimens. I like this-it has helped with calorie control-but obviously this is all anecdoctal. Parenthetically, i tried a 40 day fast several years ago-no solid food, did take diet drinks, hot tea/coffee with a bit of creamer, very occasional something like hot chocolate or fruit juice, but in very limited quantities. It was an interesting experience in a number of ways.

 

[Amylacea]

Electric converters generally max out at 40 lbs, so that won't work. The strongest manual converters I've seen are up to 55 lbs, so that may not work with the entire setup. As for the desks, the electric 60" single-tiered desks from the standupdeskstore are rated to handle 155 lbs and have no middle support pole. I just tested my own setup with 170 lbs and it still went up, but slower. Not bad for ~$550. What's the total weight of what you want on the desk?

Thanks- not sure the exact weight, but seems like I will have to get the full stand up desk, rather than the converter. Thanks!

 

[LADoc00]

I've been practicing a 8/16 hour cycle-limit eating to 8 hr period/day. there are a number of different regimens. I like this-it has helped with calorie control-but obviously this is all anecdoctal. Parenthetically, i tried a 40 day fast several years ago-no solid food, did take diet drinks, hot tea/coffee with a bit of creamer, very occasional something like hot chocolate or fruit juice, but in very limited quantities. It was an interesting experience in a number of ways.

Im trying do 48 hour complete water fasts with intervening periods of no carb protein loading for 5 days. Im having some GI distress however and occasionally it is brutal. Im taking coconut MCT oil in my coffee in the morning with a small amount of half/half and eating 2 eggs, then 2 chicken breasts for lunch and chicken or beef for dinner. To be honest though, other than purely to just do it Im not sure why doing all this. At this point a few weeks in, it doesnt feel at all sustainable. I might be better off doing intermittent fasting and calling it a day. I toyed with the idea of a 2 week water fast over the weekend after I read "Stealing Fire" as a way to reach a flow state but am concerned about potential effects on my practice. I cant honestly imagine a voluntarily 40 day fast though, that is truly next level.

I think I may just lose my last 10 or so pounds, hit my 9% BF/six pack goal and then reassess. If I can touch down south of 10% body fat and still bench 225 for 3+ reps I will be at the "best shape of my life" level which I think was around 20, shout out to all the lance corporals in 1st MarDiv.

 

[yaah]

I just get up every so often and walk around. Rarely sitting for more than an hour straight.

I can't really imagine fasting during work days, it would reduce my concentration and I would worry about the consequences to anyone's slide I reviewed that day. But everyone is different.

 

[deleted314957]

Im trying do 48 hour complete water fasts with intervening periods of no carb protein loading for 5 days. Im having some GI distress however and occasionally it is brutal. Im taking coconut MCT oil in my coffee in the morning with a small amount of half/half and eating 2 eggs, then 2 chicken breasts for lunch and chicken or beef for dinner. To be honest though, other than purely to just do it Im not sure why doing all this. At this point a few weeks in, it doesnt feel at all sustainable. I might be better off doing intermittent fasting and calling it a day. I toyed with the idea of a 2 week water fast over the weekend after I read "Stealing Fire" as a way to reach a flow state but am concerned about potential effects on my practice. I cant honestly imagine a voluntarily 40 day fast though, that is truly next level.

I think I may just lose my last 10 or so pounds, hit my 9% BF/six pack goal and then reassess. If I can touch down south of 10% body fat and still bench 225 for 3+ reps I will be at the "best shape of my life" level which I think was around 20, shout out to all the lance corporals in 1st MarDiv.

LA, wtf?! I think you may be cracking and should give thought to hanging up
the scope. Little things over your past several posts. You’ve done well.
Walk away a happy man.

 

[LADoc00]

LA, wtf?! I think you may be cracking and should give thought to hanging up
the scope. Little things over your past several posts. You’ve done well.
Walk away a happy man.

Mike I have been now solo practicing for quite awhile, of course Im cracking. I got 9-10 more years in me, then Im AUDI! My short list is Lisbon Portugal, PV in Mexico along the Bay of Banderas, Spain, Chile or Costa Rica for relocation after my last kid is out of HS. Maybe 4 or so months per year in the states visiting. But I will be straight up on cruise control, thank the Almighty.

 

[deleted314957]

Mike I have been now solo practicing for quite awhile, of course Im cracking. I got 9-10 more years in me, then Im AUDI! My short list is Lisbon Portugal, PV in Mexico along the Bay of Banderas, Spain, Chile or Costa Rica for relocation after my last kid is out of HS. Maybe 4 or so months per year in the states visiting. But I will be straight up on cruise control, thank the Almighty.

I have heard very good things about Chile and Portugal. The others would not make my cut.