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Externships for FMGs

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by Magree, Jan 27, 2002.

  1. Magree

    Magree Senior Member
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    Hi:

    I have met someone who graduated from med school a couple years ago and took some time to start a family. I did my US rotations while still a med student. How can he get experience in the US hospital system? I've heard of observerships etc. How and where can he set something like that up? Thanks so much.

    Cheers,

    M-
     
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  3. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member
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    Hi, Magree:

    Subinternships and Observerships are very difficult entities to come by for IMGs. Having said that, it's not impossible and the key for an IMG to "enter the system." The letters of recommendation coming out of a subinternship for a foreign grad and board scores are the only way an IMG can be assessed. He/she really needs those LORs from American institutions to show how he/she can function. Your friend should contact anyone s/he knows who would be willing to help him/her do a rotation for a month or so. If that is not feasible, s/he literally has to go knocking on doors until someone allows it. Many years ago (I can't speak for recently) some hospitals allowed foreigners a semester's clerkship based on board scores. You might want to ask some of the hospitals if this avenue is still permitted. I hope this helps. Good luck.

    Nu
     
  4. kamya

    kamya Member
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    Hi,
    I know a friend of mine, a medical graduate from India, did externship at VETERANS AFFAIRS MEDICAL CENTER, Washington DC, FOR ALMOST A YEAR. She had very good recommendation letters.Of note, this was not an observership but actual hands on clinical experience. VA at DC actually does allow that. You have to go different departments, produce your visa status, score reports, ecfmg certificate and RESUME. Keep track of them NOT BY PHONE BUT IN PERSON. Sure your friend will get it.

    I will be happy to give any other information
     
  5. carddr

    carddr Senior Member
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    By the way it is IMG(international medical graduate), go to the <a href="http://www.pinoy.com" target="_blank">www.pinoy.com</a> web site and check observerships or post on their forum, they are one of the best on the web and its international. I did an Ortho rotation at the Washington VA and it was wonderful and I got an excellent LOR from there, Dr Banks is great, one of the best mentors you can find in medicine. Knows his stuff. Hope this helps.
     
  6. Magree

    Magree Senior Member
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    Hi:

    Wow - I will pass this information on. I tried to go to <a href="http://www.pinoy.com" target="_blank">www.pinoy.com</a> but was denied access. Is there another avenue to that site? Thanx

    M-
     
  7. carddr

    carddr Senior Member
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    <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" /> Sorry Magree,its pinoyimg.com. That should do it. Let me know if there's a problem.
     
  8. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member
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    You're right, Kamya, about the VA. I completely forgot about that angle. I, too, remember an IMG rotating at the VA in Milwaukee and got excellent letters of recommendation. It seems to be a universal policy of the VA.
     
  9. kamya

    kamya Member
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  10. carddr

    carddr Senior Member
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    Don't know, must have been out to lunch. Did you ever get on pinoyimg.com? Let me know,it's been down a couple of times I've tried this week. Sorry about Img stuff...
     
  11. carddr

    carddr Senior Member
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    Now I see, you used FMG in your subject line. The IMG is all inclusive, by that I mean it includes foreigners and American graduates, those who have graduated from Non-USA medical schools but are Americans. FMG states just those who are foreign medical graduates,are not US citizens and may need some type of Visa assistance or requirements. Maybe I'm still out to lunch...
     
  12. Magree

    Magree Senior Member
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    Hi:

    I did get onto pinoyimg - it seemed like a good site. I will pass it along to my friend. I don't distinguish between FMG/IMG - your stuck with a lot of hassles no matter what term you use <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> .

    M-
     
  13. kamya

    kamya Member
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    I am a graduate from India and got my citizenship after that. Now what will you call me dear Famtiadr :D

    HO! HO! just kidding. Enjoy your lunch ---- <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  14. carddr

    carddr Senior Member
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    <img border="0" alt="[Pity]" title="" src="graemlins/pity.gif" /> That depends on what you graduated from, medical school or whatever and what country you became a citizen of, India or US.If medical school I will definitely call you Dr. if USA citizen I will call you an American. However you will still be a IMG.

    Reminds me of a joke I told in my graduation speech: Q. What do you call a person who graduates first in their class?
    A. a doctor.
    Q. What do they call a person who graduats last in their class?
    A. a Doctor. <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
     
  15. Cuts

    Cuts Member
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    Famtiadr... I wish it was that simple... being a fellow IMG (I conquer with your distinction on the terminology by the way), I've come to realize that all "doctors" are not created equal. So, unfortunately for us, that old joke is just that... a joke. Good luck with everything.
     
  16. gower

    gower 1K Member
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    Just a gentle correction, Cuts.

    While there are different shades of meaning for synonyms of "conquer" -- vanquish, defeat, beat, subdue, subjugate, overcome, surmount, overthrow, get the better of -- it is not the word you were looking for in your reply.

    "concur" -- to agree with -- is the similar sounding word that you intended.

    In English, the pronunciation of "quer" and "cur" are very similar, but after "con" in the two words, which therefore sound alike to the ear, words with entirely different meanings are produced.

    In spoken English you can distinguish which word is meant by the context in which it is used. This is not at all uncommon in many languages.
     
  17. gower

    gower 1K Member
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    On another topic, IMG and FMGs are not treated very differently in the hoops they must go through. Three of the four USMLE exams that non-US medical school graduates must take are very similar to the three that US medical school graduates (including non-citizens and non-permanent residents) take as they proceed through medical school and residency. Step I is a common requirement for promotion to the 3d year, Steps II and III are taken as graduates proceed through residency and are required for licensure. Only in the past few years has a step IV been added for any graduates (including US citizens) of non-US and non-Canadian medical schools.

    In other words, the USMLE is not designed to keep foreigners out of the system (although it probably once was) but as an equalizer for whatever differences in education there may be between accredited US medical colleges and non-US accredited medical schools anywhere in the world. The writ of the AAMC extends only within the US; it has no authority to accredit anywhere else. It is not intended to "discriminate" (in the negative sense of the word) against "foreigners" but to ensure a set of standards to be met for US licensure, even if the non-US medical school graduate is a US citizen or permanent resident.

    All of us are thin-skinnned, myself included, and quick to attribute bad motives whenever we feel slighted or mistreated. But "slighted" and "mistreated" are states of mind and not necessarily real except to ourselves. Of course there exist real biases in this imperfect world, but because when we are the ones interpreting what we see as offensive it does not follow that what we perceive as real has an independent real existence.

    In many countries, non-citizen or even citizen graduates of foreign medical schools are ineligible for licensure. Each nation has the right to set its own practice standards.
    The osteopathic medical degree is not recognized in many countries and in some restricted only to manipulation, as in Britain. Until recently, many Canadian provinces did not not grant practice rights to DO's.

    In the US, a foreign medical school graduates' basic licensure eligibilty requires a medical degree from a medical school listed in the WHO publication "World Directory of Medical Schools."
    That listing is provided by each country and not passed on by anyone other than the appropriate authorities in each country. In the US, that is not a government function but it is the AAMC which accredits US medical schools, and only US medical schools within the 50 states and three medical schools in Puerto Rico. [There are some others accredited ONLY by Puerto Rico; graduates of those schools cannot be licensed in the US].

    I hope my wordiness has at least allowed a little light to get through.
     
  18. Magree

    Magree Senior Member
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    Hi gower:

    Though I got a bit "lost" in your post, it was what I meant by the comment IMG/FMG both have the same troubles. I am a US native - but still had to pay $120 to prove I spoke English in the TOEFL, my understanding is that the CSA is also largely about interacting and communicating in this culture and I'll pay about 2K when its all over for transport, housing, the exam etc. Whether you are an IMG or FMG there are a lot of hoops and hassles. The California letter is a real joy and they "only" charge $500 - what a deal. Oh well, its worth it if you love what you do.

    M-
     
  19. carddr

    carddr Senior Member
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    Gower: found your post very informative, wish more folks understood the system. I for one will go thru any hoops,hassles, expense, whatever it takes to reach my goals, and do so without whining, fully aware America is a great country, very special and unique. Proud to be an American and a IMG, the culture I lived in for 4 years gave me a whole new perspective on our life here. We are very fortunate.
    Magree: I, too, had a couple of conversations about the Tofel, and CSA and I do think some of this will change in the future but its part of the game, so let's just play and have fun.
     

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