Failed Med School, now trying Dental

[SpecterGT260]

There is no question that the med school exams and board exams are more difficult. I don't think anyone who has taken both could argue with that.



You are definitely right that stress is subjective. I will stand by my statement, however, as I think dental school is much more stressful for the average student than is medical school. If you don't like my use of the word "stress" then I hope you understand I am implying greater responsibility, expectations, and obligations.



No offense but it sounds like you are trying to throw a pissing match. Doesn't really matter to me but I can see how you're stirring some bad emotions up in these pre-dents. I never took the MCAT so I can't comment on that, but I would not be surprised if it was exponentially harder than the DAT.

Just to clarify here, nothing I have posted above (or in this thread) is meant to imply that one group is more intelligent or harder working than the other. With time you all will come to respect other people's career choices and stop comparing yourself to them.

I think the more pertinent point is that neither the MCAT nor the DAT count for anything once you are in. Who cares which test is "harder"? Since it is internally normalized against the pool which takes it the level of difficulty is completely meaningless.

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[mid]

They do not cover the same breadth of material. I know you didn't mention this previously but others did, if someone says (as some have said previously on this thread) that dental students cover the same in-depth detail as medical students then they are spreading misinformation.

Plenty of schools put the med and dent students together for the first 2 years so they have the exact same didactic curriculum. Hardly misinformation depending on the school.

 

[ktran17]

The bigger underlying question is what entails a greater stress, more things to study, more clinical responsibility? As Mistry has stated, the level of "stress" one incurs is highly subjective, and is dependent on the person. For some people, more clinical responsibility is more stressful, for others its a detailed didactic curriculum.

No one is arguing that medical school's didactic curriculum is more detailed, in fact that's definitely the case on average compared to dental school.

However, the true argument some Dentists are trying to make is that the combination of lab work, clinical responsibility, and a fairly detailed didactic curriculum as a whole is what makes dental school more stressful. They are not arguing that medical school's didactic classes are more difficult. They are looking at the entire curriculum, not just one aspect.

I think in order for us to get a better picture of this argument, we should ask dual degree omfs residents that matriculated to residency from both dental and medical school.

(I on the otherhand do not have an opinion on this matter. I still need to get into and finish Dental school =) )

 

[SpecterGT260]

Plenty of schools put the med and dent students together for the first 2 years so they have the exact same didactic curriculum. Hardly misinformation depending on the school.

The majority don't. And those that "do", typically do not have the entire medical curriculum. Sharing pharmacology and micro but not taking their path, for example, isn't really the "exact same didactic curriculum". and that is what most of the schools who share curriculum do. Only a couple actually have the same first two years.

 

[ktran17]

The majority don't. And those that "do", do not have the entire medical curriculum. Sharing pharmacology and micro but not taking their path, for example, isn't really the "exact same didactic curriculum". and that is what most of the schools who share curriculum do. Only a couple actually have the same first two years.

Specter is correct, I believe only Uconn, Columbia, and Harvard does this.
I'm talking about the exact same curriculum, not just sitting in the same room. =)

 

[Koalafied]

Specter is correct, I believe only Uconn, Columbia, and Harvard does this.
I'm talking about the exact same curriculum, not just sitting in the same room. =)

It's all about sharin' that l♡ve.

 

[Ferneezy]

ITT: people that absolutely must be "right" on the internet

 

[Koalafied]

ITT: people that absolutely must be "right" on the internet

Perhaps some I's don't always predent...

...but?

 

[rodmichael82]

Plenty of schools put the med and dent students together for the first 2 years so they have the exact same didactic curriculum. Hardly misinformation depending on the school.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat are you talking about?

1) If your school covers the in-depth detail that medical schools cover in Pathology, Microbiology, Pharmacology, endocrine then tell me why your boards don't have all those topics? You can't tell me that your school is teaching you irrelevant material to your licensing practice.
When did conquering the clavicle and above have the same exact complexity as the entire body just doesn't make logical sense for them to cover the same detail. This has got to be a joke.

2) Give me the list of names of these "plenty of schools" that use the "exact same didactic curriculum".

3) You can't take examples from a few dental schools which are the minority and generalize it to all dental schools.

 

[mid]

1) If your school covers the in-depth detail that medical schools cover in Pathology, Microbiology, Pharmacology, endocrine then tell me why your boards don't have all those topics? You can't tell me that your school is teaching you irrelevant material to your licensing practice.When did conquering the clavicle and above have the same exact complexity as the entire body just doesn't make logical sense for them to cover the same detail. This has got to be a joke.

Just like MDs who specialize, dentists are viewed as doctors of the whole body who happen to be specializing in surgery of the oral cavity. What does an orthopedic surgeon need to know about eyes, or an opthamologist need to know about the female reproductive organs any more than a dentist would?

2) Give me the list of names of these "plenty of schools" that use the "exact same didactic curriculum".

You can go through schools curriculums if you want, my laziness/not caring enough proves nothing. Aside from the 3 programs mentioned programs is the Harvard-MIT HST track (which I can almost guarantee make's your MD programs curriculum in basic sciences look like a brief overview).

3) You can't take examples from a few dental schools which are the minority and generalize it to all dental schools.

First and foremost, I never generalized to all I dental schools, I said plenty (synonyms: enough, quantity, sufficiency), a completely qualitative term open to opinion. 3 dental schools could certainly be considered enough by some for the sake of argument.

However, your statement is still silly.

Just like you cant take examples from the majority and generalize to all dental schools. 3/65 US DMD or DDS programs = 4.6% of the programs. What you are saying is roughly equivalent to disregarding all asians in the US since they only make up ~4.8% of the population.



But it's ok, you can keep on thinking that you're better than dentists because you'll have (in the general publics mind) more prestigious letters after your name (the ones that matter before your name will be the same).

As a man I greatly respect said:

Firefighters tell you to be a paramedic, paramedics tell you to be a nurse, nurses tell you to be a physician, physicians tell you to be dentist, dentists tell you to start working on your swing early

I'll be enjoying my Fridays out on the course while you're still doing that residency thing.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Whaaaaaaaaaaat are you talking about?

1) If your school covers the in-depth detail that medical schools cover in Pathology, Microbiology, Pharmacology, endocrine then tell me why your boards don't have all those topics? You can't tell me that your school is teaching you irrelevant material to your licensing practice.
When did conquering the clavicle and above have the same exact complexity as the entire body just doesn't make logical sense for them to cover the same detail. This has got to be a joke.

2) Give me the list of names of these "plenty of schools" that use the "exact same didactic curriculum".

3) You can't take examples from a few dental schools which are the minority and generalize it to all dental schools.

Stop being "that guy". You're in their sandbox... we've covered the fact that the schools which match curriculum are the exceptions and that the didactic material is deeper and faster in medical school. That isn't where the difficulty comes from for dents. If I had to do class , lab, and clinic 8-5 every single week day a slowing of the material pace would be necessary. This is why the comparison is subjective and largely irrelevant

 

[Koalafied]

I've heard of medical students who've switched to dental school after first or second year. In fact, two of my upperclassmen have done that - their stated reasons can be summarized as being personal decision rather than academic failure in medical school.

But have you heard the converse of such instances ever?

 

[mid]

But have you heard the converse of such instances ever?

It happens, all the instances I know of (very few) happened due to injury that would have prevented the practice of dentistry.

 

[Koalafied]

It happens, all the instances I know of (very few) happened due to injury that would have prevented the practice of dentistry.

I see. Thanks.

 

[Textbookversion]

Plenty of schools put the med and dent students together for the first 2 years so they have the exact same didactic curriculum. Hardly misinformation depending on the school.

if by plenty you mean ~3 out of a number a couple of orders of magnitude larger sure...

 

[FeralisExtremum]

if by plenty you mean ~3 out of a number a couple of orders of magnitude larger sure...

A couple of orders of magnitude would be like...hundreds or thousands of dental schools.

 

[Textbookversion]

A couple of orders of magnitude would be like...hundreds or thousands of dental schools.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_magnitude

... no, it would be >100 which is the number of dental schools.

 

[ktran17]

Actually, there are only about 65 accredited dental schools in the U.S =)

 

[FeralisExtremum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_magnitude

... no, it would be >100 which is the number of dental schools.

A couple of orders of magnitude encompasses a range, and as pointed out above, there are not >100 dental schools in the US.

 

[Textbookversion]

A couple of orders of magnitude encompasses a range, and as pointed out above, there are not >100 dental schools in the US.

A couple means 2. Also I figured there were similar number of dental and med schools, apparently not. My state has a pretty good chunk of the total number of dental schools, interesting.

 

[Silent Cool]

This isn't really accurate. Time in class doesnt correlate at all with the amount of information. Medical school gets a little easier as you go because you trade raw sprint-speed studying for time in the clinic with less legit book-style studying. As someone who has tutored dental anatomy and worked with other med students who tutor the other basic science courses, dental school does not have the breadth, depth, or speed of the basic science material as compared to medical school for the first two years. However we also don't have to be on campus from 8am to 5pm every day (maybe once or twice a week for us. Otherwise its usually 8 -1 or 2) so we have considerably more "free" time to get through the material. Most medical students, if you ask them, will say the first two years are much more difficult, the last two years are more time consuming.

^^^ This.

 

[Silent Cool]

Alright so let me get this straight.

Since you're a "dentist", "med student" and "resident"

In terms of academics which one has more difficult material, more difficult exams (standardized exams keeping step 1 in mind)?

I'm not talking about stress. Stress is something extremely subjective, you could have a gunner going into Dermatology vs someone just trying to pass medical school and wanting family practice, both of them would have very different levels of stress. Therefore saying dental school (US) is more stressful than medical school (US MD) is also a subjective matter.

I'm not trying to throw a pissing match here but I took the DAT and the MCAT. The DAT was a walk in the park compared to the MCAT without a doubt. My brother took his board exam in dental school and the material he had/ used for prep is not as challenging as step 1 (first aid).

The personality types of med and dent students are very different. The dent students are much more laid back, in general.

 

[Silent Cool]

Re: the topic of didactic difficulty between the two fields, I know a person in a 6-year OMFS program who just failed the Step 1 exam. She said that her dental school didactics were woefully inadequate for the level of detail and question complexity on Step 1. She did not attend a dental school with shared first- and second-year classes.

 

[Mattthias]

Now it just seems to me as a little ol' predent that this topic is a bit silly.

I understand it as much as I can from my position. I got a lot of **** at my college for choosing dental over medical school from the pre-meds especially since I switched from pre-med to pre-dent (and no it wasn't due to grades or an MCAT score). Most of them thought I was taking the "easy" way out and that I wouldn't be a real "doctor" and at first I got defensive and tried this whole argument. That lasted about a week and I found out something. It really doesn't matter and I really don't care. Life is what I make of it and when I'm dead and gone I'm not going to give two sh*ts and shingle about it.

Everyone (at least all the pre-professionals I know) secretly want others to look at their lives/schedules and think, "There is no way I could do that, It must be so hard, I don't know how they do it." Everyone wants to feel like theirs is the hardest load to bear. I think that's where this argument comes from.

"You don't even know man, my work is like so hard"

I've heard this for everything from Pharmacy school to Nursing and to be honest it's a little childish and ridiculous. Making sweeping generalizations is a bad idea in any case, and the fact that you even need to make a sweeping generalization in order to compare the two fields should set off some bells somewhere.

You can compare Dental School and Medical School sure but they aren't the same thing you can never truly equate one for the other, but just like at my school there are some people who can't let this topic go. They have to be in the most difficult classes, etc.

None of this is to say, that I think Dental or Medical school is "easy" or that people exaggerate when it comes to this. If I ever (hopefully) become a dentist I'm not going to be one of those people who have to constantly remind others that I'm a Dr. to. (believe me I've met them) I'm not doing this for prestige or for money. I'm doing it because it's the most interesting and legal thing I can think to do and make a living at. I don't need to know that I had it harder in school than the trauma nurse busting her ass after a double shift, or the guy mopping the floor.

To be frank I don't know which one is harder. I don't think you can even honestly judge it due simply to the nature of humans. Even people who have taken both didn't take them at the same time (as far as my knowledge goes) and taking one first may have prepared them better for the other. When it comes down to it "hard" is entirely subjective. The standardized tests are probably the only relatively accurate model but even then you can run into issues.

I realize this probably won't make a difference to many people especially the type who have kept this argument going for centuries? I'll just end it here before I start rambling.

God rest ye merry gentlemen and gentlewomen may you find solace in what you may for on the morrow we die. :|