Failed MSI, don't want to quit... options?

[TheSurrealDoc]

I made this account so my classmates wouldn't recognize me. I failed Anatomy and Biochem from the first year and repeated the courses. This time I passed Anatomy but I'm still finding Biochemistry to be overwhelmingly difficult.

My prof is a great guy and he said he will curve me as much as possible to help me pass, but if you really think about it, won't I have so much more difficulty later on? How will I ever handle pharmac?

The truth of the matter is, I REALLY want to do this, but I'm seriously starting to feel that I'm just not cut out for this level of work. I read the material over and over and I still forget on tests. I've tried talking to a doc and he prescribed me some ritalin (he thought I might have ADD) and that didn't help much either. I've tried reading out loud, writing down as I read and watching videos. Nothing works.

Do I take the profs help or drop out? I don't want to set myself up for failure.

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[MilkmanAl]

Biochem and anatomy are very memorization-heavy subjects, so perhaps that's where your problem lies. Personally, I didn't think anything M2 has to offer was anywhere near as bad as those two classes, in that regard, pharm included. Get through this, and you'll be in much better shape.

What are your study habits like? How do you study? Do you often find yourself getting distracted? Do you learn better by reading things multiple times? By doing practice questions? By going through slowly a few times and pounding everything in all in one go? If you haven't already, purchase Lippincott's biochem review and Rapid Review: Biochem immediately, and start reading one of them religiously. Which you choose is just a personal thing, but I preferred Lippincott's for the class. I'd also suggest picking up a copy of the Kaplan Step 1 QBook and the biochem BRS to give you some practice questions. You also might consider getting a used copy of First Aid so you know what the main points you're supposed to be learning are. Sell out completely this time around so you don't cost yourself any more time or possibly your place in the school.

 

[TheSurrealDoc]

Biochem and anatomy are very memorization-heavy subjects, so perhaps that's where your problem lies. Personally, I didn't think anything M2 has to offer was anywhere near as bad as those two classes, in that regard, pharm included. Get through this, and you'll be in much better shape.

What are your study habits like? How do you study? Do you often find yourself getting distracted? Do you learn better by reading things multiple times? By doing practice questions? By going through slowly a few times and pounding everything in all in one go? If you haven't already, purchase Lippincott's biochem review and Rapid Review: Biochem immediately, and start reading one of them religiously. Which you choose is just a personal thing, but I preferred Lippincott's for the class. I'd also suggest picking up a copy of the Kaplan Step 1 QBook and the biochem BRS to give you some practice questions. You also might consider getting a used copy of First Aid so you know what the main points you're supposed to be learning are. Sell out completely this time around so you don't cost yourself any more time or possibly your place in the school.

Well I don't really remember too well when I'm just memorizing a sea of random facts. I found Anatomy a little bit easier because at least you you apply some logic and the relations and such are all interrelated.

Biochem on the other hand is just COMPLETE torture. Chemistry was my weakest subject in college and it's coming back to stab me in the back. I just memorize the charts in Biochem but have a lot of trouble understanding what's going on. If you ask me to draw a chart I can do it, but ask me what enzyme causes this and this or about any of the DNA stuff, I tank.

 

[mrmandrake]

Make flashcards for everything. It really helps me remember stuff.

 

[TheSurrealDoc]

Make flashcards for everything. It really helps me remember stuff.

Hey thanks! But how would I make that work for essay based questioning? A lot of our tests aren't multiple choice.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I dunno, I found anatomy to be almost purely memorization while biochem had a bit of application to it. In any event, I think we've found your problem. I'd just focus on learning EVERYTHING about one particular pathway (or process, when doing DNA stuff) before moving on. Get the ins and outs down instead of trying to absorb all of the pathways all at once.

 

[Endolas]

The truth of the matter is, I REALLY want to do this.....

....Do I take the profs help or drop out? I don't want to set myself up for failure.

It's your future, man. Fight for it. Don't go quietly into that good night feeling sorry for yourself. Never give up. Never surrender.

 

[robu058]

This is my advice to similar concerns raised by fellow SDNers on a couple threads and i think they might still apply to you:

Advise 1:
Best way to make to make good connections in the first 2 years is to actually meet on a regular basis with your course director. I practically and regularly meet with my course directors (for reason explained below; well, see slacking off). Usually, i read the materials ahead and while I am doing that, I annotate as well and my annotation is in the form of a question. Questions that I can't get an answer are the ones that I discussed with the course director. I also show him/her questions from my annotations that I do believe I get the right answer. However, I always have a reasoning behind each of my question.

This is the best way to stand out. IMO, your course director will notice that you are not lazy and are just waiting for him to "lecture" you again. Rather, it will show to him that you are a hard worker and dedicated to learn. That, my friend, are essences of a letter of recommendation (LOR).

PS: my intent for doing the above is to force myself not to slack off. If I know i am gonna meet with my course director everyday, then I have no choice but to be in top of the materials. I DO NOT DO that for a mere LOR, but it so happens that it is a good strategy to get one!

Advise 2:
To OP,

I am active learner! So, to keep myself from surfing the net and passively study, I study the active way. This involves in me writing on the whiteboard when i am studying. I tend to repeatedly write a sentence or a paragraph on the board, yes at least 10X before it is ingrained in my mind. Trust me, it helps a great deal!

PS: i bought a whiteboard...so i either study @ home or in school!
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I do both, but you can do either/or!

 

[sideways]

This is my advice to a similar concern raised by a fellow SDN and i think it might still apply to you:

Uh, you don't get LORs from your pre-clinical instructors.

 

[robu058]

Uh, you don't get LORs from your pre-clinical instructors.

It depends, i.e., if you are applying for a scholarship, a summer research program, etc...not just residency...and then again, it depends if you are a MD-PhD student that is applying to research/residency program!

 

[Mace1370]

I dunno, I found anatomy to be almost purely memorization while biochem had a bit of application to it. In any event, I think we've found your problem. I'd just focus on learning EVERYTHING about one particular pathway (or process, when doing DNA stuff) before moving on. Get the ins and outs down instead of trying to absorb all of the pathways all at once.

This is really good advice. Biochem is all about memorizing the pathways, but do it one at a time.

The way I broke it down was usually by memorizing in the following order:

1a. Reactants and products for each step
1b. Structures of each reactant and product (only if required)
2. The enzymes involved between each step (along with cofactors)
3. Which reactions were the rate limiting ones

So to me it was like memorizing a picture. First I memorized what went between the arrows, then beside the arrows, etc. But that's how it worked for me. Figure out how it works for you.

One thing I will say, though, virtually everyone I have talked to about biochem said writing pathways out over and over was very helpful for them.

 

[gman33]

I used a bunch of mnemonic techniques; this was really helpful for pathways. There's something called the journey method that was really helpful for remembering ordered lists. You can google it and get a much better explanation than what I'd give you.

Besides getting through the course, you just need to decide if you really want to do this. The first two years are a big pain in the *****, and there were many times I wanted to quit, like really quit. I'm in the minority, but I actually found second year to be easier and I did a lot better. Some of that probably just has to do with learning to study better.

If you really want it, just study as much as humanly possible and get through the class. Find friends how can help you out. Review books are great as well. They leave out a lot of bs and just give you the facts you need to know. Might not be a way to ace your class, but they will give you what you need to pass.

 

[cushie]

.

 

[Bernoull]

I actually found biochem to be infinitely more logical than anatomy, especially stuff like carb/fat/AA metabolism etc... they involve pathways, usually with feedback inhibition somewhere (le chatlier principle mostly applies, shift rxn forward or backward by manipulating reactants/products/enzs/cofactors)

IMO, pathways are inherently logical (A->B->C etc etc), u block an intermediate step, product plummets and substrate accumulates (metabolic toxicities, lysosomal storage Dz, enzymopathies etc)..

To get a pathway down, i'll take a blank sheet and write out the main players ONLY (no enzs, no cofactors, just A->b->C-> etc). Once i get that down, I add the enzs (which tend to be logically names X-ase, where X is substrate or product), then i go back and note the rate-limiting steps, activators inhibitors etc. In words, build up the pathway in layers, from most fundamental info then to details..

Every so often, pull out a blank sheet and rewrite the pathway in all its glory.. Also try to make it intuitive, for instance warfarin blocks da reductase enz that converts Vit K epoxide back to the active Vit K, therefore Vit K can no longer mediate da rxns necessary in the clotting cascade therefore blood thins out, rats that consume warfarin can't clot their blood (hemorrhage out)...

Gdluck

 

[TheSurrealDoc]

Well what I'm really worried about is passing the USMLE

 

[ar2388]

biochem sucks... i hated biochem and I LOVE chemistry. I could not for the life of me remember which enzyme did which reaction but I could write out the reaction mechanism. thankfully our biochem was paired with immunology which believe it or not saved me ... also the fact that a bunch of exams were averaged together to get the final grade for the module and whether i passed or failed.
it gets better. i have not had anything near as bad as biochem... i also found anatomy a challenge. someone already said it, but those 2 really did feel like the most memorization heavy.... it gets better. it does. just fight through this.
maybe gunner training would help you. you could get a free month from someone (PM me if oyu want too) and learn the biochem flashcards and do all the biochem questions they have.

 

[Mace1370]

Well what I'm really worried about is passing the USMLE

For what it's worth I just reread most of the biochem section in First Aid, and compared to my biochem class in school it is complete cake. There are a lot less pathways, and the few that you do need to know are stripped down (you only have to know 1 or 2 enzymes per pathway, etc).

 

[ACSurgeon]

OP: you've gotten some great advice above. My additions/modifications are:
1- change your approach. Never blindly memorize anything. Will there be certain things you have to go over multiple times before your ready for the exam? Sure. However, make sure you're able to see the big picture; this implies being able to walk someone through the material with the material infront of you. To do this, read the material slowly and reflect. Try to imagine how or why it occurs the way it does. Know the sequence/order of any proccess. Also, try to compartmentalize the material such that you compare similarities and differences.

2- if you are to follow milkman's advice, i'd recommend using one source to learn the material and the same or a different source for practice questions. I believe planning to use 4 books to learn biochem is a bad idea. Also, stay clear of first aid is it will likely have a lot of missing information as well as additional irrelevant material (to your course).

3- get help early and often.

4-Do not worry about step 1 or residency yet. Take it one step at a time, and now, your goal is to learn the material as best as possible and make it to the next step. As long as you make it to 3rd/4th year you will become a doctor and match somewhere. If you do well 3rd year, you will have many opportuntities to do great things.

Best of luck. Feel free to pm me if you think it would help.

 

[MilkmanAl]

if you are to follow milkman's advice, i'd recommend using one source to learn the material and the same or a different source for practice questions. I believe planning to use 4 books to learn biochem is a bad idea.

Absolutely agree. I didn't mean to imply you should use every source for learning the material. Stick to one book for that. As long as the question books are legit, though, it doesn't much matter where they come from. Just do the questions and ignore the main text. Read the explanations, though.

 

[calicalicali]

can medical schools actually dismiss u after one semester for failing?

 

[LRAccord624]

can medical schools actually dismiss u after one semester for failing?

I think they can, but are unlikely to do so- especially if you are cooperative and willing to do whatever it takes to improve. Each of us represents a huge investment that our school is making and most of the time they'll do everything possible to help us succeed.

 

[calicalicali]

I think they can, but are unlikely to do so- especially if you are cooperative and willing to do whatever it takes to improve. Each of us represents a huge investment that our school is making and most of the time they'll do everything possible to help us succeed.

well, what happens when you say that in front of the committee and they dismiss you anyway? obviously, appeal it, but how can you have any chance when the appeals is 0/6 so far. i just want to do anything i can to get back. it wasn't character flaw. it was academic performance.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Uh...you don't say something like that in front of the committee. You'd basically be telling the people thinking of kicking you out that you're above expulsion. It's sort of troubling that that's not obvious.

Tell them whatever you can. Say you had trouble adjusting to the workload - probably true whether you know it or not. Tell them you had personal problems of one sort or another. If you have evidence of improvement, talk that up. Chances are the school will offer many opportunities for you to get advice before your hearing, so search those out. Whatever they tell you to do, do it.

 

[calicalicali]

Uh...you don't say something like that in front of the committee. You'd basically be telling the people thinking of kicking you out that you're above expulsion. It's sort of troubling that that's not obvious.

Tell them whatever you can. Say you had trouble adjusting to the workload - probably true whether you know it or not. Tell them you had personal problems of one sort or another. If you have evidence of improvement, talk that up. Chances are the school will offer many opportunities for you to get advice before your hearing, so search those out. Whatever they tell you to do, do it.

lol i think you misunderstood. i meant i said i'm excited to be here and willing to work hard and do what it takes. but they said it's not about working hard, because i was working the hardest i could. i said i had difficulty to adjusting to their types of exam. i said i had adhd. i had uncontrollable anxiety. i did not have accommodations. still ended up with a dismissal after first semester. i dont want my hopes to come crashing down. what's the chance of appeal? what's the best way to go. please help me!!

 

[Gabby]

can medical schools actually dismiss u after one semester for failing?

Yes. Happened to two people at my school. No option to repeat the year.

 

[Another Chance]

lol i think you misunderstood. i meant i said i'm excited to be here and willing to work hard and do what it takes. but they said it's not about working hard, because i was working the hardest i could. i said i had difficulty to adjusting to their types of exam. i said i had adhd. i had uncontrollable anxiety. i did not have accommodations. still ended up with a dismissal after first semester. i dont want my hopes to come crashing down. what's the chance of appeal? what's the best way to go. please help me!!

I was dismissed from my medical school for academic reasons, but I won my appeal and was re-instated. You have to show extenuating circumstances. Why weren't you able to thrive? If they give you another chance, what can you change to make sure you'll succeed this time? That's the kind of stuff you need to think about.

Also, was this a U.S. school? If yes, they tend to be more forgiving.

 

[calicalicali]

I was dismissed from my medical school for academic reasons, but I won my appeal and was re-instated. You have to show extenuating circumstances. Why weren't you able to thrive? If they give you another chance, what can you change to make sure you'll succeed this time? That's the kind of stuff you need to think about.

Also, was this a U.S. school? If yes, they tend to be more forgiving.

yes. this was a us allopathic school. how did you win your appeal? did you work with the school or get legal help? what changes did you make to ensure you were successful? do you now feel like you have a gun to your head to perform otherwise you will be at risk for dismissal with no more second chance? i frankly can only speculate on how to make sure i will thrive. how did you appeal? on what grounds were u dismissed? when did you get dismissed. i was in 1st semester of 1st year. sorry for all the questions, but you're the first person i've come across to be reinstated and to sound optimistic.

 

[IlDestriero]

yes. this was a us allopathic school. how did you win your appeal? did you work with the school or get legal help? what changes did you make to ensure you were successful? do you now feel like you have a gun to your head to perform otherwise you will be at risk for dismissal with no more second chance? i frankly can only speculate on how to make sure i will thrive. how did you appeal? on what grounds were u dismissed? when did you get dismissed. i was in 1st semester of 1st year. sorry for all the questions, but you're the first person i've come across to be reinstated and to sound optimistic.

Sorry to hear about your situation. At my medical school (US allopathic) they went to great lengths to help people that were struggling. One of my friends failed 2 classes 1st year and took them at another institution over the summer. However, he did fine in the other classes. Several people I know earned a "D" vs an F in a class and retook a comprehensive exam, which somehow corrected their grade to a C. One girl had a rocky 1st year, and was offered a chance to repeat her 1st year, excepting the few classes where she scored better than a C. She did, and went on to do well. The only thing that they were deadly serious about was cheating. One strike and you're out. We lost 2 to that. No honor, no degree, no second chances.
I don't know your situation, but if they're throwing you out, they have no faith in your ability to graduate and pass the boards. The reality is that they have a lot of experience with this situation, and you might want to consider that. You can consult an attorney, but I can't see how you have any legal recourse. You failed, they threw you out because you failed. The end. If you genuinely have a newly documented illness, you might be able to convince them on appeal to give you another chance. Though I don't think that they have any obligation to give you any extra chances or accommodations. People seem to want to sue everyone for everything, but the likely outcome will be you being out tens of thousands of dollars more and the University not even noticing or caring as they have their own attorneys on staff. If you were doing well and they arbitrarily threw you out without cause (as if they would do this) you might have a chance at something.

 

[ArcGurren]

Hell no, don't give up! You know where your weaknesses are and how to fix them now. I don't have anything further to say that hasn't already been said on this thread, so for now I just want to wish you the best of luck!

 

[calicalicali]

Hell no, don't give up! You know where your weaknesses are and how to fix them now. I don't have anything further to say that hasn't already been said on this thread, so for now I just want to wish you the best of luck!

i don't know which one of us you are talking to, but if you would be so kind as to offer your advice, i'd definitely appreciate it.

so i am most definitely going to fight this dismissal with all the help i can get, legal or whatever. my brother-not in law, just smart guy- who knows all the details says it's probably 60/40 in my favor i'll get readmitted with the legal help. i just want to know how can i guarantee im going to be successful? because basically im operating on a no second chance policy, or that's my impression of it. anxiety factored in significantly the first time.that's fine, i recognize it, i accept it. my question is wat can i do for the next (presumably) several months to guarantee my success? because i have a 0% leeway, if admitted back.