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chasingmytail

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I was hoping someone could clarify this situation for me...I took a major pre-med science class last semester and ended up not doing well (circumstances beyond my control - had to leave the state for family reasons during finals), but it was too late to withdraw. I took the class NC/CR (credit/noncredit) and received noncredit. Therefore I received 0 credits, but the class usually is 4. So technically none of my credits count toward my GPA and I am retaking the class now, and potentially acing it.

My question here is, does anyone know how this calculates into the AMCAS GPA? I know it doesn't go into my GPA at all at my university but is it counted as an F in med school admissions? How much will the NC weigh vs. the A I would be able to earn presently?
 
chasingmytail said:
I was hoping someone could clarify this situation for me...I took a major pre-med science class last semester and ended up not doing well (circumstances beyond my control - had to leave the state for family reasons during finals), but it was too late to withdraw. I took the class NC/CR (credit/noncredit) and received noncredit. Therefore I received 0 credits, but the class usually is 4. So technically none of my credits count toward my GPA and I am retaking the class now, and potentially acing it.

My question here is, does anyone know how this calculates into the AMCAS GPA? I know it doesn't go into my GPA at all at my university but is it counted as an F in med school admissions? How much will the NC weigh vs. the A I would be able to earn presently?
Click to expand...

A grade of NC counts as an F on AMCAS. It sucks b/c I have an NC too and it was supposed to be a D! If you retake the class and get an A it would be like getting a C.
 
Courses with the AMCAS grades listed below are not included in the GPA calculations. Instead, the total hours for each of these categories are reported to the schools under the heading "Supplementary Hours."
o Pass/Fail - Pass
o Pass/Fail - Fail
o AP Credit
o CLEP Credit
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Courses with the AMCAS grades listed below are not included in the GPA calculations. Instead, the total hours for each of these categories are reported to the schools under the heading "Supplementary Hours."
o Pass/Fail - Pass
o Pass/Fail - Fail
o AP Credit
o CLEP Credit
Click to expand...

Just a note: NC is not included in "Supplementary Hours"
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Courses with the AMCAS grades listed below are not included in the GPA calculations. Instead, the total hours for each of these categories are reported to the schools under the heading "Supplementary Hours."
o Pass/Fail - Pass
o Pass/Fail - Fail
o AP Credit
o CLEP Credit
Click to expand...

so according to BrettBatchelor, they don't? but according to Retro they do?
.....???? ok which one of you got into med school?

does this simply mean courses with credits but given the grade NC will be calculated as 0.0/4.0 and therefore added to and divided by the total number of respective credits?

or are supplementary hours viewed differently?
 
AMCAS Grades that Do Not Affect the GPA
The following AMCAS grades do not have a weight or value in computing the AMCAS GPA:
G
Used to indicate AP credit not assigned a letter grade
L
Used for CLEP or USAFI/DANTES credit not assigned a letter grade
P
Used for courses taken in a Pass/Fail system, which are Passed
N
Used for courses taken in a Pass/Fail system, which are Failed

Pass / Fail
Pass/Fail courses are those that are attempted under a Pass/Fail system that allows no more than two passing grades and one failing grade (e.g., Credit/No Credit, Pass/Fail, Satisfactory/Unsatisfactory, High Pass/Pass/Fail, etc.).
Pass/Fail courses attempted under a Pass/Fail system that allows three or more passing grades (e.g. High Pass/Pass/Low Pass/Fail) will be treated as a regular pass/fail course unless your school provides alpha letter grade conversion (e.g. A, B, C).

http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/2006instructionbook.pdf

DOESN'T COUNT
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Credit/No Credit is the same as P/F isn't it?
Click to expand...

No, usually a NC class will have a grading scale of A,B,C,NC,F. There is usually special consideration/criteria to fulfill to get the NC vs the F. For example, in one of my classes you could have below a 50% at the end of the semester but if you attended every lecture and got above a 60% on the final exam you were given the NC grade instead of an F.

For AMCAS an NC=F but for your undergrad institution and NC can save your GPA therefore save your scholarships, etc.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
AMCAS Grades that Do Not Affect the GPA
The following AMCAS grades do not have a weight or value in computing the AMCAS GPA:
G
Used to indicate AP credit not assigned a letter grade
L
Used for CLEP or USAFI/DANTES credit not assigned a letter grade
P
Used for courses taken in a Pass/Fail system, which are Passed
N
Used for courses taken in a Pass/Fail system, which are Failed

http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/2006instructionbook.pdf
Click to expand...


Thanks Brett!!
 
retroMD said:
No, usually a NC class will have a grading scale of A,B,C,NC,F. There is usually special consideration/criteria to fulfill to get the NC vs the F. For example, in one of my classes you could have below a 50% at the end of the semester but if you attended every lecture and got above a 60% on the final exam you were given the NC grade instead of an F.

For AMCAS an NC=F but for your undergrad institution and NC can save your GPA therefore save your scholarships, etc.
Click to expand...
He said he took it credit/no credit hence only two options, thus follows as AMCAS dictates for C/NC, P/F etc. If you can show contrary info from AMCAS I will believe you.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
He said he took it credit/no credit hence only two options, thus follows as AMCAS dictates for C/NC, P/F etc. If you can show contrary info from AMCAS I will believe you.
Click to expand...


http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/conversionguide2006.pdf

In the grade conversion chart it shows that schools who use the NC grade gets converted to F or 0.0 points.
 
retroMD said:
http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/conversionguide2006.pdf

In the grade conversion chart it shows that schools who use the NC grade gets converted to F or 0.0 points.
Click to expand...
See with the different names of things I can see why you were confused. If you look on all of those charts NC is counted as an F only in grading schemes with 4 or more grading intervals NOT 2 like the OP took it under.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
See with the different names of things I can see why you were confused. If you look on all of those charts NC is counted as an F only in grading schemes with 4 or more grading intervals NOT 2 like the OP took it under.
Click to expand...

Ohhh true! See I was thinking of how my school uses the NC. Thanks for clarification Brett 👍
 
retroMD said:
Ohhh true! See I was thinking of how my school uses the NC. Thanks for clarification Brett 👍
Click to expand...
I was confused at first too since my school doesn't have NC as an option.
Its either A-F or P/F
Glad we straightened it out for this fellow.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
I was confused at first too since my school doesn't have NC as an option.
Its either A-F or P/F
Glad we straightened it out for this fellow.
Click to expand...

Sometimes I wish schools would just standardize their grading..haha. My school has P/NP, and S/US, which is the same as P/F, and C/NC in terms of concept. Glad you cleared that up though. Started to wonder what was goin on. :laugh:
 
I actually agree with retro on this one:

That scale is refering to the school's grading system...not the scale for each individual class.

I think NC = F
 
riceman04 said:
I actually agree with retro on this one:

That scale is refering to the school's grading system...not the scale for each individual class.

I think NC = F
Click to expand...
Wouldn't you get a grade according to the schools grading system for each class?

When there is only two options such as C/NC = P/F = S/US etc according to the AMCAS literature posted it doesn't count in GPA.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Wouldn't you get a grade according to the schools grading system for each class?

When there is only two options such as C/NC = P/F = S/US etc according to the AMCAS literature posted it doesn't count in GPA.
Click to expand...


did he say that his school only uses a two grade system?

If so then ok I agree...but then why did he say that he will earn an A in the class this time around?
 
riceman04 said:
did he say that his school only uses a two grade system?

If so then ok I agree...but then why did he say that he will earn an A in the class this time around?
Click to expand...
He said in the OP, that he took it C/NC. It is an option you can do for non-essential classes.

For example, If if I took intro to poetry as a science major and not a gen ed I could opt for P/F instead of A-F grading.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
He said in the OP, that he took it C/NC. It is an option you can do for non-essential classes.

For example, If if I took intro to poetry as a science major and not a gen ed I could opt for P/F instead of A-F grading.
Click to expand...


right...but the fact that he took that class at a university where they use the letter grading system makes his NC an F for AMCAS conversions.

The OP's university does not use a two grade grading system.

That P/F that you opted to use ensured that you could only earn either a Pass or a Fail for that class you took. For AMCAS conversions a Pass is a Pass and there is no grade conversion...a Fail, howerver is counted as a grade letter "F" and thus counts as a 0.0

The same goes for C/NC CLASSES at a University that follows a multiple letter grading system.
 
riceman04 said:
right...but the fact that he took that class at a university where they use the letter grading system makes his NC an F for AMCAS conversions.

The OP's university does not use a two grade grading system.

That P/F that you opted to use ensured that you could only earn either a Pass or a Fail for that class you took. For AMCAS conversions a Pass is a Pass and there is no grade conversion...a Fail, howerver is counted as a grade letter "F" and thus counts as a 0.0

The same goes for C/NC CLASSES at a University that follows a multiple letter grading system.
Click to expand...
Please read some of the above posts. It clearly states that a P/F-Fail doesn't count as a 0.0 and doesn't affect GPA.
 
forget that...where does it say that in the link you posted?
 
From reading just what you posted Brett, it looks like retro is right, and that the NC counts as an F (my interpretation only - nothing official...)

The info that you copied and pasted suggests that if the OP took the course C/NC under a SYSTEM that was a C/NC SYSTEM, then it would not count, but since he elected C/NC as an option in a system that was set up as A-F, then the NC is equivelent to an F.

In other words, the NC would have not counted only if the OP took the course in a system where all the classes were C/NC (eg certain military programs, or academies where there are no grades)
 
Flopotomist said:
From reading just what you posted Brett, it looks like retro is right, and that the NC counts as an F (my interpretation only - nothing official...)

The info that you copied and pasted suggests that if the OP took the course C/NC under a SYSTEM that was a C/NC SYSTEM, then it would not count, but since he elected C/NC as an option in a system that was set up as A-F, then the NC is equivelent to an F.

In other words, the NC would have not counted only if the OP took the course in a system where all the classes were C/NC (eg certain military programs, or academies where there are no grades)
Click to expand...

yes, that is what I was trying to say
 
Still disagree. I will email AMCAS for a final decision.

This will be the body, let me know if this doesn't describe the situation correctly:

After reading the instruction manual I was unclear on the ruling of C/NC classes affecting GPA.

For a class taken under the option of C/NC at a school that normally has A-F grading would a NC be counted as a 0.0 and added into the GPA or a NC under "Supplementary Hours" and not included in GPA calculations?
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Still disagree. I will email AMCAS for a final decision.
Click to expand...

Let us know - I usually defer to your interpretations because you are so often correct - but on this one, I am still inclined to my original interpretation, but interested to see if the powers that be agree.
 
Flopotomist said:
Let us know - I usually defer to your interpretations because you are so often correct - but on this one, I am still inclined to my original interpretation, but interested to see if the powers that be agree.
Click to expand...
I edited above. Does this describe the debate correctly? I don't want you guys to think I manipulated the question 😉
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Still disagree. I will email AMCAS for a final decision.

This will be the body, let me know if this doesn't describe the situation correctly:

After reading the instruction manual I was unclear on the ruling of C/NC classes affecting GPA.

For a class taken under the option of C/NC at a school that normally has A-F grading would a NC be counted as a 0.0 and added into the GPA or a NC under "Supplementary Hours" and not included in GPA calculations?
Click to expand...

hey how did EK vedrbal prep work for you?
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Are you clowning on my misuse of a/an (I fixed in the email) or are you genuinely asking?
Click to expand...


:laugh: :laugh:
genuinely asking!
 
riceman04 said:
:laugh: :laugh:
genuinely asking!
Click to expand...
Meh...Verbal prep from both EK and Kaplan is a lot of hype IMO. In the end you have the instincts to pick out the right answer or not and mine has been progressing from practice passages not "writing the main idea" or "underlining buzz words"...

I guess we shall see in August if my skepticism payed off or I crashed and burned.

So I am about to send the email...Is what I wrote above a fair assesment of the squabble?
 
sounds fair to me... and let's not call it a squabble - I know better than to squabble with you!
 
I know you're emailing AMCAS to find out, but if I were to give my opinion I'd agree with Brett. I think that elected C/NC is the same as elected P/NP and thus does not count in the GPA. On the grade conversion chart, that NP they are referring to is institutions that don't give "F's" for failing a course, they just give NC (basically meaning the student has to take the class over.) AMCAS says that NC will count as an F then. However, on a two-tiered system (elected or not) it does not count in the GPA. HOWEVER, you also will NOT get credit for completing the class if it is a pre-med requirement!!! Never take a pre-med requirement P/NP or C/NC!

Just my 2 cents.
 
chandelantern said:
I know you're emailing AMCAS to find out, but if I were to give my opinion I'd agree with Brett. I think that elected C/NC is the same as elected P/NP and thus does not count in the GPA. On the grade conversion chart, that NP they are referring to is institutions that don't give "F's" for failing a course, they just give NC (basically meaning the student has to take the class over.) AMCAS says that NC will count as an F then. However, on a two-tiered system (elected or not) it does not count in the GPA. HOWEVER, you also will NOT get credit for completing the class if it is a pre-med requirement!!! Never take a pre-med requirement P/NP or C/NC!

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I think we all have opinions on this policy - it does leave a bit to interpretation (eg what is a "system" is it the school, or the individual course?)

Let's just wait and see what Brett finds out - there is a definitive answer to the question, we just don't know what it is.
 
I think Brett is right. "Unsatisfactory" could equal a D, not an F. Also, I think it clearly states it on the AMCAS guide.
 
wow...thanks for all that input, i am amazed at your efficiency....

I really hope Brett is correct, but if the class counts as Retro was suggesting it does, would a stellar MCAT score balance out the averaged C?
 
If the case were that the NC counts as 0/4.0 towards GPA, what would a Credit count for? Would they then not calculate the grade into your GPA since they can't distinguish whether you received an A or a C? So, you're in a lose-lose situation in regards to your GPA?
My inclination is towards Brett and class grading designation versus school grading designation.
Now for the official word...
 
Mediculous said:
If the case were that the NC counts as 0/4.0 towards GPA, what would a Credit count for? Would they then not calculate the grade into your GPA since they can't distinguish whether you received an A or a C? So, you're in a lose-lose situation in regards to your GPA?
My inclination is towards Brett and class grading designation versus school grading designation.
Now for the official word...
Click to expand...
Nothing as of 1:40 EST.
 
chasingmytail said:
wow...thanks for all that input, i am amazed at your efficiency....

I really hope Brett is correct, but if the class counts as Retro was suggesting it does, would a stellar MCAT score balance out the averaged C?
Click to expand...

If you had a bad grade in one class, or retook one class, while having a stellar MCAT score, i think that is OK. Now if your GPA was like average (2.0), then a 35 MCAT might just say you're a good standardized exam taker, lucky or actually good at your basic sciences/verbal reasoning. But given the time duration of undergraduate coursework, and the consistant workload under some amount of stress, it may also indicate that you can't handle a large workload, but you can study for a few months for one exam😉. Take home message is, don't put too much stake in one component (MCAT) making up for the other component (GPA) since most schools weigh them equally.

In my opinion, you prolly shouldn't have anything to worry about. 1) it appears this is your only issue, and I think Brett is right that it shouldn't count as an F. 2) You had a reason for the grade, therefore if it does turn out to be an F, retake it, and if neccessary put in one sentence in your personal statement to address that if you so desire. Just put it in a positive light. We all have some blemish on our transcripts. Aslong as you can justify it (and not make it an excuse), while showing redemption through good grades in coursework AND on the MCAT (both is usually good🙂).
 
chasingmytail said:
I was hoping someone could clarify this situation for me...I took a major pre-med science class last semester and ended up not doing well (circumstances beyond my control - had to leave the state for family reasons during finals), but it was too late to withdraw. I took the class NC/CR (credit/noncredit) and received noncredit. Therefore I received 0 credits, but the class usually is 4. So technically none of my credits count toward my GPA and I am retaking the class now, and potentially acing it.

My question here is, does anyone know how this calculates into the AMCAS GPA? I know it doesn't go into my GPA at all at my university but is it counted as an F in med school admissions? How much will the NC weigh vs. the A I would be able to earn presently?
Click to expand...
I would e-mail AMCAS directly and ask them to clarify. They usually reply fairly quickly. In any case, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Edit: Nevermind, I skipped some of the posts, sorry...
 
So is this C/NC and P/NP the same as a withdraw P/F? I withdrew from one of my pre-med classes and got a withdraw pass, I didn't think that this counted against my gpa, but this thread has started to worry me...will the WP count against my gpa?
 
NCF145 said:
So is this C/NC and P/NP the same as a withdraw P/F? I withdrew from one of my pre-med classes and got a withdraw pass, I didn't think that this counted against my gpa, but this thread has started to worry me...will the WP count against my gpa?
Click to expand...
No. That is just like a regular W but shows you didn't drop it since you were failing.
 
Dear Brett,

Thank you for contacting AMCAS.

A course taken for No Credit would not be calculated into your GPA and would be counted as "Supplementary Hours".



----------------------------------------------

If you have any questions or if we can be of additional assistance, please contact us at [email protected] or (202) 828-0600.

AMCAS Association of American Medical Colleges

Section for Medical School Application Services

2450 N St., NW

Washington, DC 20037

U.S.A.

General Inquiries: (202) 828-0600

Fax: (202) 828-1120

www.aamc.org/AMCAS
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Dear Brett,

Thank you for contacting AMCAS.

A course taken for No Credit would not be calculated into your GPA and would be counted as "Supplementary Hours".



----------------------------------------------

If you have any questions or if we can be of additional assistance, please contact us at [email protected] or (202) 828-0600.

AMCAS Association of American Medical Colleges

Section for Medical School Application Services

2450 N St., NW

Washington, DC 20037

U.S.A.

General Inquiries: (202) 828-0600

Fax: (202) 828-1120

www.aamc.org/AMCAS
Click to expand...


Thank you especially to Brett and Relentless, the former for your pursuit of the matter and the latter for your sound advice.
Mediculous - No, I am taking the class now and will most likely end up with an A, so I am not keeping the CR/NC as a permanent grade.

P.S. I just gotta clarify this ... I'm female.
 
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