Ost3oclast

It's Teh Internetz Dood!
7+ Year Member
Nov 3, 2010
3,269
136
In between here and there
Status
Medical Student
Hey guys,

US AMG 4th year here, will be applying for residency in September. For the longest time I was thinking that I would be doing internal medicine with a fellowship in pulmonary critical care and I have been on this path since 3rd year. At the beginning of 4th year I set up my schedule with an internal medicine sub-i which was followed by a MICU month to see what my future would be like. Long story short, I don't want to do ICU anymore. After a lot of reflection with my wife, I'm now thinking that I would rather go the family medicine route with a possible fellowship in sports med (original interest when starting med school with research posters in this subject) as outpatient medicine has been something I've enjoyed much more. I do have a question though...can I apply to family medicine programs in the match without completing a sub-i in FM? This is the major hold up for me. I have a VERY strong family medicine letter from an FM doc I worked with during med school for 14 weeks. I also have a letter from IM as well as psychiatry.

Other stats for me....step I 234, step II 249, all honors for 3rd year grades, some research with posters and a publication coming up.
 
OP
Ost3oclast

Ost3oclast

It's Teh Internetz Dood!
7+ Year Member
Nov 3, 2010
3,269
136
In between here and there
Status
Medical Student
I have no idea if you're serious or not OP. Leaning towards not serious.
Lol I'm not asking if I'm competitive for the field or anything like that hahaha. More of a question regarding if it is mandatory to have a sub-i in family medicine done in order to apply....I'm certain I could match given my performance in med school I just didn't know if not completing a sub-i would be a hanging point with programs.....apparently not? lol
 

Natividad Resident

FM resident
2+ Year Member
Aug 13, 2016
50
89
Monterey County
Status
Resident [Any Field]
There's no requirement to do an FM sub-I on the residency side.

You'll want to reach out to your school's FM department, right away, to get a department letter going. If they have no prior experience with you, this can be awkward. But even without an FM letter, FM residencies aren't going to balk at you. FM = IM+Surg+OB+Peds+Psych+Etc.

It's a good idea to use 4th year experiences to add breadth on the way to an FM residency. So if you'd known a year ago that you like both ICU & FM, an ICU sub-I would have been a good plan anyway. BTW you'll do ICU rotations in FM residency.

An FM sub-I is strategic if you're targeting one specific program that's hard to get into, and/or if you're targeting a region where you have no standing assets and you want to get a regionally-recognizable recommendation.

There's some good info in this forum on how to research programs.

Good luck!
 
  • Like
Reactions: hallowmann
May 22, 2015
83
18
Status
Medical Student
There's no requirement to do an FM sub-I on the residency side.

You'll want to reach out to your school's FM department, right away, to get a department letter going. If they have no prior experience with you, this can be awkward. But even without an FM letter, FM residencies aren't going to balk at you. FM = IM+Surg+OB+Peds+Psych+Etc.

It's a good idea to use 4th year experiences to add breadth on the way to an FM residency. So if you'd known a year ago that you like both ICU & FM, an ICU sub-I would have been a good plan anyway. BTW you'll do ICU rotations in FM residency.

An FM sub-I is strategic if you're targeting one specific program that's hard to get into, and/or if you're targeting a region where you have no standing assets and you want to get a regionally-recognizable recommendation.

There's some good info in this forum on how to research programs.

Good luck!
If an applicant is targeting a region (like a home state, med school state) is it appropriate to write in their personal statement desire to stay in-state and why? Then send this essay to all the in-state schools they are applying to?
 
OP
Ost3oclast

Ost3oclast

It's Teh Internetz Dood!
7+ Year Member
Nov 3, 2010
3,269
136
In between here and there
Status
Medical Student
There's no requirement to do an FM sub-I on the residency side.

You'll want to reach out to your school's FM department, right away, to get a department letter going. If they have no prior experience with you, this can be awkward. But even without an FM letter, FM residencies aren't going to balk at you. FM = IM+Surg+OB+Peds+Psych+Etc.

It's a good idea to use 4th year experiences to add breadth on the way to an FM residency. So if you'd known a year ago that you like both ICU & FM, an ICU sub-I would have been a good plan anyway. BTW you'll do ICU rotations in FM residency.

An FM sub-I is strategic if you're targeting one specific program that's hard to get into, and/or if you're targeting a region where you have no standing assets and you want to get a regionally-recognizable recommendation.

There's some good info in this forum on how to research programs.

Good luck!
Great info thanks for that. I'll be reaching out to my FM department to see about a dept letter. It will be awkward I'm sure as my entire 14 weeks that have been in FM throughout medical school were all done in a rural setting through the school, as I have a strong interest in practicing in a smaller location. The FM letter I have currently is with the physician I spent all that time with.
 

Natividad Resident

FM resident
2+ Year Member
Aug 13, 2016
50
89
Monterey County
Status
Resident [Any Field]
If an applicant is targeting a region (like a home state, med school state) is it appropriate to write in their personal statement desire to stay in-state and why? Then send this essay to all the in-state schools they are applying to?
You can write a separate personal statement for any program you apply to. Which I more or less recommend, if you're doing the work to see the differences between programs.

Some FM programs require a program-specific essay. Such as if they have a specific mission. Such as if they literally don't have the staff to actually review 1000+ apps now that low-stats applicants apply to 100+ programs.

But yes, if you want to talk about regional preference in your essay, that's fine.
 

Natividad Resident

FM resident
2+ Year Member
Aug 13, 2016
50
89
Monterey County
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Great info thanks for that. I'll be reaching out to my FM department to see about a dept letter. It will be awkward I'm sure as my entire 14 weeks that have been in FM throughout medical school were all done in a rural setting through the school, as I have a strong interest in practicing in a smaller location. The FM letter I have currently is with the physician I spent all that time with.
Let me be a bit more specific on the letter thing. If you'll be applying to academic programs, it's more important to have an academic letter (ie department chair with "FAAFP"). That's like program directors talking to each other about what program directors care about.

Assuming you have 2 faculty letters (IM/CC are fine), a community preceptor letter is fairly high yield for a non-academic FM program.
 
OP
Ost3oclast

Ost3oclast

It's Teh Internetz Dood!
7+ Year Member
Nov 3, 2010
3,269
136
In between here and there
Status
Medical Student
Let me be a bit more specific on the letter thing. If you'll be applying to academic programs, it's more important to have an academic letter (ie department chair with "FAAFP"). That's like program directors talking to each other about what program directors care about.

Assuming you have 2 faculty letters (IM/CC are fine), a community preceptor letter is fairly high yield for a non-academic FM program.
I see. My plan would be to apply to university programs, as I would be shooting for a sports med fellowship after residency. I have academic IM and psychiatry letters already uploaded but don't have one for family med. I will have to get that through the department chair although it certainly wouldn't be an outstanding letter seeing as I have literally never worked with anyone in the FM department at my school. Hopefully they would be willing to write one anyway haha
 

Natividad Resident

FM resident
2+ Year Member
Aug 13, 2016
50
89
Monterey County
Status
Resident [Any Field]
My plan would be to apply to university programs, as I would be shooting for a sports med fellowship after residency.
I don't personally know of a link between doing an academic FM residency and getting a sports med fellowship. There are competitive fellowships and less-competitive fellowships, but it isn't like IM with boarded sub-specialties. Sports med is 1-2 years of fellowship. About 1/3 of programs aren't at university med centers but they might have NFL/etc team linkage/etc. At most you can get a "certificate of added qualifications" on top of ABFM BC/BE.

I suggest identifying a half dozen sports med fellowship programs that interest you. Dig in to find out where their fellows are from and what they did before fellowship. Definitely get a real-life contact who is no more than 3 years ahead of you and is on a path you want to be on.

(I admit to being biased against academic FM programs. Whatever is gained by being at a university med center, I don't get the attraction of fighting non-FM residents for access to it. Being in a hospital that survives on resident labor means I'm not watching/waiting, I'm doing.)

(Also: I'm not into sports med, just trying to contribute to useful pre-ERAS research. Can't believe you guys only have a month to figure out where to apply.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: hallowmann
Apr 25, 2015
218
27
Hey guys,

US AMG 4th year here, will be applying for residency in September. For the longest time I was thinking that I would be doing internal medicine with a fellowship in pulmonary critical care and I have been on this path since 3rd year. At the beginning of 4th year I set up my schedule with an internal medicine sub-i which was followed by a MICU month to see what my future would be like. Long story short, I don't want to do ICU anymore. After a lot of reflection with my wife, I'm now thinking that I would rather go the family medicine route with a possible fellowship in sports med (original interest when starting med school with research posters in this subject) as outpatient medicine has been something I've enjoyed much more. I do have a question though...can I apply to family medicine programs in the match without completing a sub-i in FM? This is the major hold up for me. I have a VERY strong family medicine letter from an FM doc I worked with during med school for 14 weeks. I also have a letter from IM as well as psychiatry.

Other stats for me....step I 234, step II 249, all honors for 3rd year grades, some research with posters and a publication coming up.
Just heads up FM includes pediatrics, obstetrics, gynecology - required rotations throughout residency.
-if all you did was IM you may not be putting yourself in greatest position at the start of residency

-the one question I have for you is why don't you go through IM then sporst medicine fellowship? (you don't need to go through FM to get a sports fellowship)
 
OP
Ost3oclast

Ost3oclast

It's Teh Internetz Dood!
7+ Year Member
Nov 3, 2010
3,269
136
In between here and there
Status
Medical Student
Just heads up FM includes pediatrics, obstetrics, gynecology - required rotations throughout residency.
-if all you did was IM you may not be putting yourself in greatest position at the start of residency

-the one question I have for you is why don't you go through IM then sporst medicine fellowship? (you don't need to go through FM to get a sports fellowship)
Well although I only did a formal sub-internship in internal medicine I certainly did all of those other rotations during 3rd year. Im not sure I know anybody who actually spent 4th year doing all those sub-i's to apply to family? Not sure if thats what you are recommending? Regardless, I will be applying with a family med letter, pediatric letter, psych letter and IM letter so I think the diversity is there....maybe I'm wrong?

In terms of going through IM, I had thought of that. However, after conversations with my residency advisors in family and internal, they did say that I had a better chance of getting a sports fellowship through family as the majority of these fellowships are run by family medicine departments. There are also quite a few fellowship programs that only accept family or pediatric physicians for fellowship and these are places I'm very interested in going to so family it is.
 

hallowmann

Lifetime Donor
7+ Year Member
Mar 13, 2012
5,538
5,134
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Lol... Things are changing i was told. FM/IM and even Psych require more than a pulse these days. 'Charting the outcomes' coming out this year will confirm that.
Seriously though, I have a feeling its going to come out like Sept. 16th or something. Strategically after a bunch of apps have already been submitted. Just in time for all of us to stress out.