Family suing American Airlines over death of 25-year-old woman

[coffeebythelake]

This is a ridiculous statement. Their Avg IQ is not 105!

Likely sub 100. You know the plaitiff lawyers want the dumber ones.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[skankhunt42]

Really depends on the situation. If you're on a boat and there's four people and one of them goes down and you've been drinking, you're definitely going to be fine, because the other option would just be to watch them die. No board would fault you for that. In a situation like this, in which there is a ground physician, there is no need for an inebriated physician to do anything.

If you practice medicine in the United States having consumed alcohol that is grounds for loss of licensure, even in a do or die good samaritan episode (read the NEJM article- they explicitly say this...twice in the article). You are not obligated to help in a good samaritan episode. If you have been drinking and feel obligated to volunteer...do so at your own risk. We don't make the rules, just know them to play.

 

[deleted171991]

This is a ridiculous statement. Their Avg IQ is not 105!

Why wouldn't it be? You take 12 people from the general population, whose average IQ is 105 at best. The plaintiff wants dumber jurors (easier to manipulate), the defendant smarter ones (harder to sway in the absence of facts).

 

[anbuitachi]

Why wouldn't it be? You take 12 people from the general population, whose average IQ is 105 at best. The plaintiff wants dumber jurors (easier to manipulate), the defendant smarter ones (harder to sway in the absence of facts).

Yea exactly. Avg IQ in US is 98. And they choose the dumber ones so it is < 98, which is at least half a standard deviation lower than 105

 

[Mad Jack]

If you practice medicine in the United States having consumed alcohol that is grounds for loss of licensure, even in a do or die good samaritan episode (read the NEJM article- they explicitly say this...twice in the article). You are not obligated to help in a good samaritan episode. If you have been drinking and feel obligated to volunteer...do so at your own risk. We don't make the rules, just know them to play.

I've just never heard of a license ever acted upon in this way. Like, if you're on a boat with your family and your mother cardiac arrests, are you just going to watch for fear of losing your license? And do you think any reasonable licensing board would find fault with you in the situation? I mean, I've heard of surgeons getting busted drinking on the job that ended up just having to do an addiction program to keep their license, I highly doubt you'd get slammed with loss of licensure in a scenario where all common sense says you had no other reasonable option, particularly when you'd be doing the same thing as any other person with BLS/ACLS training would do but you just happen to also be a physician. I'm not saying it isn't against the rules, merely that I find it seriously doubtful a board would take action, because board actions are discretionary, not complulsory, and thus subject to the standard of reason rather than the rule of the law as written. With the things I've heard and seen people get away with and keep their license, I'm telling you, it just wouldn't happen in true no other alternative situations. In situations where there is literally any other alternative, goodbye license if the situation goes public for any reason.

Given that I'm going into psych, I'm just going to be like nah at these situations, because I feel that no matter how good my medicine skills stay, should I make any error my training will come under scrutiny and I might be declared wreckless in the case of a bad outcome.

 

[deleted171991]

Yea exactly. Avg IQ in US is 98. And they choose the dumber ones so it is < 98, which is at least half a standard deviation lower than 105

I was being generous.

 

[chocomorsel]

Is that legal? Because in Germany you can get into a lot of trouble I think if you're a doctor and don't help in these situations. Maybe buy the tickets as mr. Just to be sure.

I was really talking about the land of the sue-happy, lotto system of the USA.

However, how are the Germans gonna know that I am a doctor from a different country?
Do they research all their passengers in cases where there are emergencies? I wonder if they would jail me.

Outside of the US, I would be more than willing to help quite honestly. In the US, even though I wouldn't watch a person turn blue/ashen and die without me laying a hand on them if I was the only one available, I usually look around dumbfounded and wait for the next fool to jump up ahead of me when help is asked for. It usually works. Guess, my cynicism shows right through on these board.

 

[dpmd]

If you practice medicine in the United States having consumed alcohol that is grounds for loss of licensure, even in a do or die good samaritan episode (read the NEJM article- they explicitly say this...twice in the article). You are not obligated to help in a good samaritan episode. If you have been drinking and feel obligated to volunteer...do so at your own risk. We don't make the rules, just know them to play.

This is not exactly true. If you practice medicine while IMPAIRED by alcohol certainly you might lose your license. However, just having had a glass of wine with dinner a hour before the flight attendants ask for medical help is unlikely to result in any impairment and therefore unlikely to affect your licensure.

 

[chocomorsel]

Yes, AFAIK. It's not ethical, and I assume one may get a blemish on one's license if the licensing authority finds out.

Do you think all doctors stop at the site of a car accident?

How often enough do you hear about good samaritans who stop on the side of the road to help an accident victim themselves and then end up dead or injured by another car?

Highway shoulders are dangerous places. I have stopped once, back in my nursing days, but I have never witnessed an accident happen live in front of me. I have come up to many a few minutes after they have happened and someone always beats me to it in calling for help. If one ever happened in front of me, I would be very weary in any case of making sure that I am "way way off the road" before I stepped out my car to assist. And if the victim were in the danger zone (middle of highway, shoulder with cars still zooming by at highway speeds), I would not venture out and put myself in danger. I would wait for police to arrive to ward off the area before I ventured out and potentially became road kill myself, unless the cars had all already stopped ahead of the cops.

 

[Man o War]

How often enough do you hear about good samaritans who stop on the side of the road to help and accident victim themselves and then end up dead or injured by another car?

Highway shoulders are dangerous places. I have stopped once, back in my nursing days, but I have never witness an accident happen live in front of me. I have come up to many a few minutes after they have happened and someone always beats me to it in calling for help. If one ever happened in front of me, I would be very weary in any case of making sure that I am "way way off the road" before I stepped out my car to assist. And if the victim were in the danger zone (middle of highway, shoulder with cars still zooming by at highway speeds), I would not venture out and put myself in danger. I would wait for police to arrive to ward off the area before I ventured out and potentially became road kill myself, unless the cars had all already stopped ahead of the cops.

Yes, this exactly. I don’t do side of the road/middle of the road stops either. Way too dangerous.

 

[chocomorsel]

If you practice medicine in the United States having consumed alcohol that is grounds for loss of licensure, even in a do or die good samaritan episode (read the NEJM article- they explicitly say this...twice in the article). You are not obligated to help in a good samaritan episode. If you have been drinking and feel obligated to volunteer...do so at your own risk. We don't make the rules, just know them to play.

As cynical as I am, I don't agree with this and wouldn't let a person die in front of me unless I was completely inebriated. One glass of a wine makes me feel a little tipsy if I haven't eaten. If I have, I feel just happy and laid back. Two glasses starts getting me three sheets to the wind and also depends on how fast I drink them.
Whatever the damn journal says, human nature would not let you just watch someone die in front of you if you are the only lifeline just because you are worried about losing your license. And I am cynical as hell as you can tell from my posts.

 

[Blackdogue]

Haha, I guess they will know because American doctors want to be called dr. So they buy their tickets as dr. Better watch out for that when you're in Europe. Here in most countries we're just called mr.

 

[deleted171991]

Haha, I guess they will know because American doctors want to be called dr. So they buy their tickets as dr. Better watch out for that when you're in Europe. Here in most countries we're just called mr.

Whatever you say, mister.

 

[chocomorsel]

Haha, I guess they will know because American doctors want to be called dr. So they buy their tickets as dr. Better watch out for that when you're in Europe. Here in most countries we're just called mr.

That's a generalization. Yes, we most certainly want to be called Dr. in the workplace as that's what we are and worked hard for. However, how do you know that most of us buy our tickets with Dr. in front of it or go advertising ourselves to the public as doctors in non work situations?

 

[Blackdogue]

That's a generalization. Yes, we most certainly want to be called Dr. in the workplace as that's what we are and worked hard for. However, how do you know that most of us buy our tickets with Dr. in front of it or go advertising ourselves to the public as doctors in non work situations?

I was just making a joke out of this cultural difference, but I'm certainly not trying to imply that you guys are pompous and certainly not trying to start a pissing match. It's just that in my country we don't call doctors dr. X anymore. Even in the hospital it sounds a bit too formal and outdated. It's not better or worse, it just is what it is. I'm very grateful for your answers, I hope that's clear.

 

[chocomorsel]

I was just making a joke out of this cultural difference, but I'm certainly not trying to imply that you guys are pompous and certainly not trying to start a pissing match. It's just that in my country we don't call doctors dr. X anymore. Even in the hospital it sounds a bit too formal and outdated. It's not better or worse, it just is what it is. I'm very grateful for your answers, I hope that's clear.

Hard to tell you are joking on the internet. Leave a smiley face or something, because I and @FFP thought you were serious as you can tell by our response.

 

[Blackdogue]

Hard to tell you are joking on the internet. Leave a smiley face or something, because I and @FFP thought you were serious as you can tell by our response.

Sorry about that.

 

[deleted171991]

Here, the only person I introduce as Mr. is the CRNA.

 

[skankhunt42]

As cynical as I am, I don't agree with this and wouldn't let a person die in front of me unless I was completely inebriated. One glass of a wine makes me feel a little tipsy if I haven't eaten. If I have, I feel just happy and laid back. Two glasses starts getting me three sheets to the wind and also depends on how fast I drink them.
Whatever the damn journal says, human nature would not let you just watch someone die in front of you if you are the only lifeline just because you are worried about losing your license. And I am cynical as hell as you can tell from my posts.

I agree, I would probably act to. But if you read the NEJM of medicine article, it says that the vast majority of inflight emergencies/ doctor calls are MSK stuff, lightheadedness etc. So yes, someone has arrest have at it. But someone twists their knee pulling a bag down from the overhead compartment and you proclaim 'meh its fine' with whiskey on your breath, watch out....

 

[skankhunt42]

I've just never heard of a license ever acted upon in this way. Like, if you're on a boat with your family and your mother cardiac arrests, are you just going to watch for fear of losing your license? And do you think any reasonable licensing board would find fault with you in the situation?

Read the article... I agree its silly but I take the NEJM at face value.... As I quoted above, the vast majority of emergencies are very benign stuff. A full arrest would probably give you considerable lee-way. Smelling of booze while examining a comfortably wheezing kid might put your license in harms way....

 

[Mad Jack]

Read the article... I agree its silly but I take the NEJM at face value.... As I quoted above, the vast majority of emergencies are very benign stuff. A full arrest would probably give you considerable lee-way. Smelling of booze while examining a comfortably wheezing kid might put your license in harms way....

It's a judgment call. You shouldn't be doing anything while inebriated that is not an absolute immediate emergency in which there is literally no other choice. Even then, you've got to weigh how much you value doing what is likely the right thing versus your license.

 

[coffeebythelake]

It's a judgment call. You shouldn't be doing anything while inebriated that is not an absolute immediate emergency in which there is literally no other choice. Even then, you've got to weigh how much you value doing what is likely the right thing versus your license.

I often drink a couple beers before i fly. Not enough to be drunk. I would assist in an emergency situation but only under the capacity as a helper. If they want me to do chest compressions i will do so. If they want me to start an iv and push some fluids i will do so. Maybe even offer some suggestions. But I would defer decision making to another physician in this scenario. If this was life or death scenario and no other medical professionals are around then I would do whatever needs to be done.

 

[Drangue]

It’s why you don’t write MD by your name when you buy a plane ticket

A buddy of mine did this and he got the exit seat with extra leg room.

Coicidence?!?! I think not... I am writing MD on everything. Even my Starbucks coffee.

 

[Twiggidy]

A buddy of mine did this and he got the exit seat with extra leg room.

Coicidence?!?! I think not... I am writing MD on everything. Even my Starbucks coffee.

You’re a doctor. Buy a first class seat. You’ll thank me later.

 

[coffeebythelake]

You’re a doctor. Buy a first class seat. You’ll thank me later.

First class seats within the country are weak and poor value.

 

[Twiggidy]

First class seats within the country are weak and poor value.

Says the guy sitting in coach lol....

Im just trolling you .....im a bigger fella so my legs are happy to shell out the cost and a couple extra nights of call covers it for me

Any change in time zones.....im doing my best to sit up front and get some free terrible sparkling wine

 

[coffeebythelake]

Says the guy sitting in coach lol....

Im just trolling you .....im a bigger fella so my legs are happy to shell out the cost and a couple extra nights of call covers it for me

Any change in time zones.....im doing my best to sit up front and get some free terrible sparkling wine

Haha don't get me wrong I love to fly business class when I do overseas flights... occasionally they have good deals that i can actually afford. I just feel that the first class domestic product is not well polished, and not that much of an upgrade from coach. If they had a layflat seat i would think differently

I'm 6'2" and bit overweight so I'm not small either.

 

[Twiggidy]

Haha don't get me wrong I love to fly business class when I do overseas flights... occasionally they have good deals that i can actually afford. I just feel that the first class domestic product is not well polished, and not that much of an upgrade from coach. If they had a layflat seat i would think differently

I'm 6'2" and bit overweight so I'm not small either.

Coast to coast on Delta has lie flats. Coast to coast on American and Virgin not so much. I stick with Delta for the miles.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Haha, I guess they will know because American doctors want to be called dr. So they buy their tickets as dr. Better watch out for that when you're in Europe. Here in most countries we're just called mr.

Watchu talkin bout Willis!? Who the **** is doing that?

 

[Blackdogue]

Watchu talkin bout Willis!? Who the **** is doing that?

i dont know, i thought in the US once you get the MD, people in general call you dr. instead of mr. i might be wrong of course, but if you check out the comments above you will see one example mentioned where someone bought a ticket signed MD and they gave him the emergency exit or something like that. I didnt say its everyone but its not uncommon either, is it? i mean relatively common compared to some european countries of course. in mine (greece) you dont get called or sign as doctor ever, and in germany you only get called Dr.med. if you do this doctoral thesis, which isnt obligatory. and something irrelevant, in the UK, surgeons are called mr., probably because they were originally trained as barber surgeons, who didnt actually go to med school.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

i dont know, i thought in the US once you get the MD, people in general call you dr. instead of mr. i might be wrong of course, but if you check out the comments above you will see one example mentioned where someone bought a ticket signed MD and they gave him the emergency exit or something like that. I didnt say its everyone but its not uncommon either, is it? i mean relatively common compared to some european countries of course. in mine (greece) you dont get called or sign as doctor ever, and in germany you only get called Dr.med. if you do this doctoral thesis, which isnt obligatory. and something irrelevant, in the UK, surgeons are called mr., probably because they were originally trained as barber surgeons, who didnt actually go to med school.

They have to know you're a doctor.

I don't introduce myself as doctor and only bring it up when asked what I do - and even then usually just say I work in health care and hope it doesn't go past that.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Haha don't get me wrong I love to fly business class when I do overseas flights... occasionally they have good deals that i can actually afford. I just feel that the first class domestic product is not well polished, and not that much of an upgrade from coach. If they had a layflat seat i would think differently

I'm 6'2" and bit overweight so I'm not small either.

My 6'6 self feels its usually worth it (plus I love that my luggage is free and gets out first).

That said I'm trying premium economy in July (because I'm sure as heck not spending first class money on my 2 year old twins) on American and will report. Supposedly its only like 2-3 inches less legroom than First and 5-6 more than regular economy.

 

[Impromptu]

For my first airline ticket with an MD, I chose the MD prefix. I have since thought better of that. There has been a lot of class envy recently and I worry about that. I would rather go incognito.

6'4". I have picked a few first class seats domestic, which have been nice. But not for foreign flights. I just cannot part with $8,000/ticket when I could get to the same place for $1,000, especially now that my daughter is over 2 years old, and 3 tickets at that price would buy me several weeks of nice hotel rooms. The perk of a toddler is that she does not use much of her seat, so I have plenty of shoulder room. A coach seat in an international 777 or 787 is still pretty nice, and I'll even do the extended legroom.

 

[coffeebythelake]

For my first airline ticket with an MD, I chose the MD prefix. I have since thought better of that. There has been a lot of class envy recently and I worry about that. I would rather go incognito.

6'4". I have picked a few first class seats domestic, which have been nice. But not for foreign flights. I just cannot part with $8,000/ticket when I could get to the same place for $1,000, especially now that my daughter is over 2 years old, and 3 tickets at that price would buy me several weeks of nice hotel rooms. The perk of a toddler is that she does not use much of her seat, so I have plenty of shoulder room. A coach seat in an international 777 or 787 is still pretty nice, and I'll even do the extended legroom.

Yeah the 787s are nice even in coach. As long as you arent' sitting next yo a huge fatty. I only fly business class internationally if less than $2000. Those deals exist.

 

[pgg]

I'm 6'6".

An exit row on a domestic flight is 90% as good as first class. And I usually get it free because the gate agent takes pity on my dysmorphic lanky ass and changes my seat. I'm usually pretty happy with an exit row.


I'm flying to southeast Asia in a few weeks. Government ticket. Will be the cheapest coach seat. Probably row 56 with a nonreclining seat with extra engine noise, next to the busiest lavatory. Absolutely dreading it. If I'm allowed to pay for an upgrade I will.

 

[ZzzPlz]

Who knew, SDN posters are all giants

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'm 6'6".

An exit row on a domestic flight is 90% as good as first class. And I usually get it free because the gate agent takes pity on my dysmorphic lanky ass and changes my seat. I'm usually pretty happy with an exit row.


I'm flying to southeast Asia in a few weeks. Government ticket. Will be the cheapest coach seat. Probably row 56 with a nonreclining seat with extra engine noise, next to the busiest lavatory. Absolutely dreading it. If I'm allowed to pay for an upgrade I will.

That's what I used to do, however exit row seats are now considered premium economy or only available to people who have award status with the airlines.

 

[pgg]

Who knew, SDN posters are all giants

Handsome and witty, too.

 

[deleted162650]

Handsome and witty, too.

And don’t forget modest.

 

[chocomorsel]

They have to know you're a doctor.

I don't introduce myself as doctor and only bring it up when asked what I do - and even then usually just say I work in health care and hope it doesn't go past that.

I say I am a nurse all the time. Because technically I still I am. I could revive my license I am sure.
My family on the other hand, wants to announce to the world that I am a doctor. Geez.

 

[Twiggidy]

I'm 6'6".

An exit row on a domestic flight is 90% as good as first class. And I usually get it free because the gate agent takes pity on my dysmorphic lanky ass and changes my seat. I'm usually pretty happy with an exit row.


I'm flying to southeast Asia in a few weeks. Government ticket. Will be the cheapest coach seat. Probably row 56 with a nonreclining seat with extra engine noise, next to the busiest lavatory. Absolutely dreading it. If I'm allowed to pay for an upgrade I will.

Not only that but the SMELL. Whew!

 

[chocomorsel]

Handsome and witty, too.

This all don’t matter unless you are single! Lol
I am only asking for a friend

 

[deleted162650]

I say I am a nurse all the time. Because technically I still I am. I could revive my license I am sure.
My family on the other hand, wants to announce to the world that I am a doctor. Geez.

Wow Choco, the brain of a nurse and the heart of a physician!




I kid, I kid.

 

[pgg]

And don’t forget modest.

I'm the humblest man on the net.

 

[deleted162650]

I'm the humblest man on the net.

And I am the least competitive guy here damnit!

 

[Drangue]

i dont know, i thought in the US once you get the MD, people in general call you dr. instead of mr. i might be wrong of course, but if you check out the comments above you will see one example mentioned where someone bought a ticket signed MD and they gave him the emergency exit or something like that.

Oh sorry, I sort of meant it as a joke. My buddy really did get the emergency exit seat by the window with extra leg room but I am pretty sure it actually was a coincidence and not because the airline was trying to allocate seats to 'important individuals'. I could be wrong though.

*I'm also joking about putting MD on my Starbucks coffee...

 

[Blackdogue]

Oh sorry, I sort of meant it as a joke. My buddy really did get the emergency exit seat by the window with extra leg room but I am pretty sure it actually was a coincidence and not because the airline was trying to allocate seats to 'important individuals'. I could be wrong though.

*I'm also joking about putting MD on my Starbucks coffee...

Yes, I realized that you made a joke out of this coincidence, but my point was that he did buy it as MD, right?

 

[Drangue]

Yes, I realized that you made a joke out of this coincidence, but my point was that he did buy it as MD, right?

Yea, he did. If you go to some of the airline websites and make accounts you can fill in prefix and occupation sections.