fear of retaliation

[Mercury in Taurus]

My internship year was a memorable year with many difficult moments. Our relationship with one supervisor was toxic. We spoke up to the training director in our effort in trying to improve the situation and our learning experience. It only made the situation worse as the level of hostility increased and things became unnecessarily personal. It got so bad that my peers and I were going to reach out to the APA, but decided to keep our mouths shut due to the fear of retaliation. We obeyed and complied to survive. That experience haunted me months after leaving the site for postdoc. I finally stopped having distressing dreams related to internship experience about more than halfway into my postdoc.

I had three supervisors throughout my internship year. I have stayed in touch with two supervisors. Now it comes to the time for licensure, and I need to reach out to my internship site. I called the state board today and was able to clarify the application process. The board told me that I can have three supervisors sign off the verification form individually and separately to attest my experience or having the training director sign the form along with a letter stating his/her is attesting my hours on behalf of all three supervisors.

Either way, I will be reaching out to an individual in power with whom I did not have an ideal relationship. In any ordinary situation, I would just drop an email and ask politely. Although I still have faith in humanity that people don't go out of their way to harm others, I am feeling anxious about reaching out. I am not sure how I should approach and what kind of responses that I might be receiving. The board stated that if they don't receive the signed form mailed directly from my supervisor(s), then they are unable to process my application. BTW, I was never put on a remediation plan and I graduated from the internship in good standing. I am doing very well this training year, passed the EPPP, and am on target to complete the postdoc in good standing.

What would be the best approach if I am to reaching to the training director? I feel that would be more appropriate than reaching out to all three supervisors separately regarding this matter before contacting the DOT first.

Any thoughts or insight will be gratefully appreciated. Thank you!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ClinicalABA]

If you successfully met criteria for completing the internship, then the TD and/or individual supervisors are ethically obligated to complete the licensure material. You should just ask them to do so- straightforwardly. If they don't respond, then take the issue to the department chair/TD from your doctoral program for advice. If you don't get any progress at all, then take it as far as you need to (e.g., APA). If it's an APA accredited internship, there should be a clear mechanism in place for the TD to sign off on licensure, with clear consequences if they don't.

Document your steps along the way (e.g., use and save emails, send forms via some verified receipt method), just in case.

 

[Sanman]

I imagine it will be much easier having the TD complete the form and I would start there rather than contacting a supervisor you had a poor relationship with. It will be easier as well given that you won't need to bother three people.

 

[erg923]

My internship year was a memorable year with many difficult moments. Our relationship with one supervisor was toxic. We spoke up to the training director in our effort in trying to improve the situation and our learning experience. It only made the situation worse as the level of hostility increased and things became unnecessarily personal. It got so bad that my peers and I were going to reach out to the APA, but decided to keep our mouths shut due to the fear of retaliation. We obeyed and complied to survived. That experience haunted me months after leaving the site for postdoc. I finally stopped having distressing dreams related to internship experience about more than halfway into my postdoc.

I had three supervisors throughout my internship year. I have stayed in touch with two supervisors. Now it comes to the time for licensure, and I need to reach out to my internship site. I called the state board today and was able to clarify the application process. The board told me that I can have three supervisors sign off the verification form individually and separately to attest my experience or having the training director sign the form along with a letter stating his/her is attesting my hours on behalf of all three supervisors.

TD needs to sign/attest. That's all. That's part of why their is a formal TD position. Why do you needs 3 different people to say the same thing? Someone had to be in charge there, right? Again, that's why there is a TD position at APA approved internships. And.... don't you have an internship certificate/diploma signed by at least the TD? That's pretty standard protocol, no?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I agree--start with contacting the TD, ask if they can complete it, and let them know the form will be on its way (or attach a copy to the email if possible). The TD doesn't sound to have any grounds not to complete the paperwork.

 

[erg923]

As an aside, the term "toxic" (which is frankly too generic to be useful to anyone involved) was not really in use when I did internship 10+ years ago.

If they were just kind of rude or moody or made inappropriate comments or something...that's really not a big a deal. We are all adults and presumably resilient, so lets just move on, right? I know there was one particular supervisor on internship whom I did not get along with at all that year (and the 3 others didn't either) and she was certainly NOT a good clinical supervisor. But that's about all. If that's all it really is...I think reaching out (if you really think you need to do that) is fine. Not everyone has to like each other or even get along. Just that way it is. My current boss "likes me" but it is important for people to know that your boss "liking you" really isn't all that necessary. And that's not what completing your internship year is all about.

 

[borne_before]

Yeah, your TD will rubber stamp this. This is a huge benefit of doing APA internship.

This reminds me of my internship, which was def a little traumatic, too. I started out with two great supervisors. However, one had a baby mid way through the first half of the internship. So my other supervisor took over. This supervisor was great at therapy and stuff, but I was not getting the support I needed for the more procedural aspects of a school based placement. For instance, they put me at a brand new school. Anyway, I ended up making some beginner mistakes in how I dealt with teachers and admin at this campus. I was doing good therapy tho! I was also dropping the ball and completely overwhelmed with some parts of the gig. This supervisor was pretty hands off, which I kind of liked... Part of this also was my ADHD that wasn't being managed well with Strattera.

I got put on a remediation plan. It freaking killed me, dude. I was like really anxious and depressed and concerned that I was going to fail internship. It was also hard being out of the sun from my home state and main support network. I couldn't of done it without my wife. So I got better ADHD meds and went on some Prozac.

Once the other supe came back, after Christmas, I started excelling again. I was getting great supervision and learning a ton. I will forever be indebted to this supervisor for making my internship an overall good experience. I learned a ton from her and the other psychs at the internship.

I do think the ego check from the remediation plan was a good thing overall.

A few years later, we found out that my supervisor (the hands off one) just ghosted the site and that they were an alcoholic. I had joked at the time that to other interns that my supervisor wasn't going to campuses. But, she probably really wasn't going to sites very much and I, a complete newb, was expected to pull her slack. I was def not ready to have my own campus (let a lone a brand new one). She also always carried a little "water" bottle with her and would take small sips out of during supervision.... I remember thinking about that at the time.

Anyway, I tell this story to say that supervisors can definitely make or break a training experience. I'm sorry you had a crappy one. But, don't let it ruin the other good aspects of the experience. It's the power differential that really sucks. But, you've done good thus far. You don't have any fear of retaliation.

 

[PsychPhDone]

Request what you need from the TD and don't get caught up in catastrophizing and contingency planning until or unless you actually run into a problem.

 

[Mercury in Taurus]

Yeah, your TD will rubber stamp this. This is a huge benefit of doing APA internship.

This reminds me of my internship, which was def a little traumatic, too. I started out with two great supervisors. However, one had a baby mid way through the first half of the internship. So my other supervisor took over. This supervisor was great at therapy and stuff, but I was not getting the support I needed for the more procedural aspects of a school based placement. For instance, they put me at a brand new school. Anyway, I ended up making some beginner mistakes in how I dealt with teachers and admin at this campus. I was doing good therapy tho! I was also dropping the ball and completely overwhelmed with some parts of the gig. This supervisor was pretty hands off, which I kind of liked... Part of this also was my ADHD that wasn't being managed well with Strattera.

I got put on a remediation plan. It freaking killed me, dude. I was like really anxious and depressed and concerned that I was going to fail internship. It was also hard being out of the sun from my home state and main support network. I couldn't of done it without my wife. So I got better ADHD meds and went on some Prozac.

Once the other supe came back, after Christmas, I started excelling again. I was getting great supervision and learning a ton. I will forever be indebted to this supervisor for making my internship an overall good experience. I learned a ton from her and the other psychs at the internship.

I do think the ego check from the remediation plan was a good thing overall.

A few years later, we found out that my supervisor (the hands off one) just ghosted the site and that they were an alcoholic. I had joked at the time that to other interns that my supervisor wasn't going to campuses. But, she probably really wasn't going to sites very much and I, a complete newb, was expected to pull her slack. I was def not ready to have my own campus (let a lone a brand new one). She also always carried a little "water" bottle with her and would take small sips out of during supervision.... I remember thinking about that at the time.

Anyway, I tell this story to say that supervisors can definitely make or break a training experience. I'm sorry you had a crappy one. But, don't let it ruin the other good aspects of the experience. It's the power differential that really sucks. But, you've done good thus far. You don't have any fear of retaliation.

Thank you so much for sharing your story, borne_before. It is comforting to hear that you got an overall good experience out of your internship and are looking at the brighter side. I am hoping what you learned from your experience will make you a responsive and supportive supervisor if you are not already supervising. The best way to pay off the debt is perhaps to be the kind of supervisor you wish you had at the time you were owed adequate supervision.

 

[Mercury in Taurus]

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts and objectivity. I am shaking off my anxiety and will be reaching out to the TD via email with the form attached.

 

[Mercury in Taurus]

As an aside, the term "toxic" (which is frankly too generic to be useful to anyone involved) was not really in use when I did internship 10+ years ago.

If they were just kind of rude or moody or made inappropriate comments or something...that's really not a big a deal. We are all adults and presumably resilient, so lets just move on, right? I know there was one particular supervisor on internship whom I did not get along with at all that year (and the 3 others didn't either) and she was certainly NOT a good clinical supervisor. But that's about all. If that's all it really is...I think reaching out (if you really think you need to do that) is fine. Not everyone has to like each other or even get along. Just that way it is. My current boss "likes me" but it is important for people to know that your boss "liking you" really isn't all that necessary. And that's not what completing your internship year is all about.

Thank you for sharing your story, erg923! I am surprised to hear that someone like you had this kind of experience. "Abusive" would have been a more accurate word, but that makes it sound like the interns were victimized. I was traumatized for sure, but I do not wish to carry a victimized self-concept with me that will not benefit anyone and may impact my work in providing care to vulnerable individuals. It did not surprise me how much it hurt; it surprised me how long it hurt. However, I see now that we can still make use of and benefit from terrible experiences. I know that it has made me more sensitive to the power differential, something I will always pay attention to when I have the opportunity to provide supervision one day.

 

[borne_before]

Thank you so much for sharing your story, borne_before. It is comforting to hear that you got an overall good experience out of your internship and are looking at the brighter side. I am hoping what you learned from your experience will make you a responsive and supportive supervisor if you are not already supervising. The best way to pay off the debt is perhaps to be the kind of supervisor you wish you had at the time you were owed adequate supervision.

Or at least not a drunk absent blaming one?

 

[foreverbull]

After reading about your experience @Mercury in Taurus , my first thought was “did you attend MY internship site?” Except my TD was my group and individual supervisor, so I had to directly reach out to them to confirm my internship hours. I did try to communicate my feelings near the end of internship and my concerns were deflected right back to me. Ironic given that the site was very interpersonally-focused, so the sort of I-and-thou thing and affecting each other/open communication was part of their “holistic” philosophy. But feedback could only go one way, in reality.

Feel free to reach out privately if you want to chat more about it or share where your site was. I went through the same thing or at least something similar and it had an effect on all of us interns that year.