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Hi all,

I am a healthcare attorney who specializes in physician compensation. Long and short, I help hospital systems design new compensation models for all specialities.

I have considered offering a free service to fellows coming out of school that helps them evaluate different compensation offers and also helps ensure they sign the best contract possible. I would get paid from the hospital for finding the right doctor but my real interest in building long term relationships with physicians.

What do you think? Is this a service that you would be interested in? Would it hold value for you or is it merely a distraction.

I appreciate any feedback you could give.

MDCompCare.
 

hamstergang

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I have considered offering a free service to fellows coming out of school that helps them evaluate different compensation offers and also helps ensure they sign the best contract possible.
Since I'm not sure you fully get the difference between students (students, not fellows are finishing school), residents (you talk about fellows as if residents, the more generic term, don't exist), and fellows, I'm not sure this would be the most helpful. But who doesn't love free services?
 
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OP
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Sep 12, 2017
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Since I'm not sure you fully get the difference between students (students, not fellows are finishing school), residents (you talk about fellows as if residents, the more generic term, don't exist), and fellows, I'm not sure this would be the most helpful. But who doesn't love free services?
Hamstergang,

I appreciate the reply. You are of course correct and I was somewhat careless in the use of terminology. The reference to school was generic at best as I merely meant that regardless of residency or fellowship, most of these new physicians are looking for their first position.

The question I have more focuses on the need for the service. Are new physicians comfortable and competent to navigate variable compensation models and convoluted contracts. I think I could help it wanted to go directly to the source for feedback.
 
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Sep 12, 2017
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"Free"

No conflict of interest here.
Gastrapathy,

If you examine real estate contracts, the buyers agent would have a perceived conflict of interest. People still engage them because there's a viable service and the perception of value.

Would you be inclined to engage this service regardless of the perception of a conflict of interest?
 
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Sounds like a very fancy way to explain that you're a recuiter.
Admiralchz,

I fluctuate on whether or not I need to offer recruiting services. Certainly I want to get paid for the experience and expertise I bring with a law degree, MBA, and multiple years designing compensation plans.

That said, I think I would have to go down the road of trying to get my fee from the hospital because new physicians simply are not in a position to pay generally for services.

Would you agree with that assessment?
 

Gastrapathy

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Wait. You are comparing yourself to a realtor as a positive? Thats funny.

No, I'd have no interest in having a hospital shill compare his company's contract with others.

For the trainees, it's important to understand that employed contracts will almost always look better than prepartner contracts with desirable private groups. You have to decide whether you're playing the long game.
 

PlutoBoy

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Hi all,

I am a healthcare attorney who specializes in physician compensation. Long and short, I help hospital systems design new compensation models for all specialities.

I have considered offering a free service to fellows coming out of school that helps them evaluate different compensation offers and also helps ensure they sign the best contract possible. I would get paid from the hospital for finding the right doctor but my real interest in building long term relationships with physicians.

What do you think? Is this a service that you would be interested in? Would it hold value for you or is it merely a distraction.

I appreciate any feedback you could give.

MDCompCare.
In general, we don't know how to interpret those contracts. But since ultimately you are working for the hospital, I have a hard time believing that you are looking out for the best interest of the people you claim you would be helping.
 
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rokshana

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Hamstergang,

I appreciate the reply. You are of course correct and I was somewhat careless in the use of terminology. The reference to school was generic at best as I merely meant that regardless of residency or fellowship, most of these new physicians are looking for their first position.

The question I have more focuses on the need for the service. Are new physicians comfortable and competent to navigate variable compensation models and convoluted contracts. I think I could help it wanted to go directly to the source for feedback.
no, in general they are not....but my question (concern) is that you are paid by the hospital...how are they not your first concern? Wouldn't it be a conflict of interest for you to work for both the physician and the hospital? Or are you thinking of working with graduating residents/fellows who are NOT looking to work with the hospital you represent?
 
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WholeLottaGame7

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Gastrapathy,

If you examine real estate contracts, the buyers agent would have a perceived conflict of interest. People still engage them because there's a viable service and the perception of value.

Would you be inclined to engage this service regardless of the perception of a conflict of interest?
You're not even the buyer's agent. You are employed by one of the hospitals offering a contract, therefore you are the seller's agent.

If you're asking if I would want the seller's agent looking at the list of houses I'm interested in and making recommendations on which one is the best deal, that's a big fat no.
 

WholeLottaGame7

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Hi all,

I am a healthcare attorney who specializes in physician compensation. Long and short, I help hospital systems design new compensation models for all specialities.

I have considered offering a free service to fellows coming out of school that helps them evaluate different compensation offers and also helps ensure they sign the best contract possible. I would get paid from the hospital for finding the right doctor but my real interest in building long term relationships with physicians.

What do you think? Is this a service that you would be interested in? Would it hold value for you or is it merely a distraction.

I appreciate any feedback you could give.

MDCompCare.
The only way something like that would work is if you started your own company (of course, then it wouldn't be free). Many residents/fellows do hire lawyers to review contracts, but many of those lawyers may not have any expertise in physician-specific contracts. If you set up shop in an area with multiple residency/fellowship programs, you might be able to carve out a niche if you actually bring something to the table that others do not.

But it's never going to fly if you're paid by the hospital. The way you described your job in the original post makes it seem like you are an over-educated recruiter.
 
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If this person is an agent or receives compensation from the hospital don't trust them, them bringing an "MBA and law degree to the table" means definitely don't trust them. Ask local physicians about the attorney they use for contracts, if you need the name of a person who specializes in this in the Chicago area pm me.


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PTPoeny

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I could see it working if a hospital was willing to pay you to look at the contacts of residents graduating from their hospital and going elsewhere. Otherwise it seems like a huge conflict of interest. And I doubt many residency programs/hospitals would be willing to do this.

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I appreciate all the feedback. I wouldn't work for the hospital that is paying the fee. This would be an independent service.

The basic value proposition is that I know compensation models better than most as I design them. If a new physician is faced with a guarantee then cash model, pure productive with an escalating incentive, guarantee with a value based component etc, which one should he choose and why. I can help guide and model the best option.

If a new physician is faced with a non compete, restriction on outside activities, unilateral assignment to a compensation model, ambiguous clauses, etc, I can help with that also.

I think the clear feedback is there is a general distrust of any that could be deemed to be a recruiter. Better not to look to collect any fee from the hospital.

Perhaps the best thing to do is simply offer targeted legal/compensation services that the new physician pays for with the knowledge that I work for them.


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Winged Scapula

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I appreciate all the feedback. I wouldn't work for the hospital that is paying the fee. This would be an independent service.

The basic value proposition is that I know compensation models better than most as I design them. If a new physician is faced with a guarantee then cash model, pure productive with an escalating incentive, guarantee with a value based component etc, which one should he choose and why. I can help guide and model the best option.

If a new physician is faced with a non compete, restriction on outside activities, unilateral assignment to a compensation model, ambiguous clauses, etc, I can help with that also.

I think the clear feedback is there is a general distrust of any that could be deemed to be a recruiter. Better not to look to collect any fee from the hospital.

Perhaps the best thing to do is simply offer targeted legal/compensation services that the new physician pays for with the knowledge that I work for them.


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That would be a more interesting product in my mind.

Most graduating resident physicians and fellows do not have an attorney and I have found that many attorneys, while familiar with contract law, aren't necessarily familiar with common practices in The medical field.

Frankly I would have been willing to spend a little money to have an attorney and someone familiar with employment contracts in medicine work together as long as the price were reasonable.
 

DrfluffyMD

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I appreciate all the feedback. I wouldn't work for the hospital that is paying the fee. This would be an independent service.

The basic value proposition is that I know compensation models better than most as I design them. If a new physician is faced with a guarantee then cash model, pure productive with an escalating incentive, guarantee with a value based component etc, which one should he choose and why. I can help guide and model the best option.

If a new physician is faced with a non compete, restriction on outside activities, unilateral assignment to a compensation model, ambiguous clauses, etc, I can help with that also.

I think the clear feedback is there is a general distrust of any that could be deemed to be a recruiter. Better not to look to collect any fee from the hospital.

Perhaps the best thing to do is simply offer targeted legal/compensation services that the new physician pays for with the knowledge that I work for them.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
[/QUOTE]

I actually would LOVE to use your service as a lawyer and hospital recruiter provided the following condition is met

1. You are familiar with my local and state law.

2. You DO NOT work for the hospital I intend to work for.
 

DokterMom

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I think there's a real value to your service provided there's no conflict of interest. Think sports agents. If your fee schedule were designed as a percentage of the physician's compensation -- potentially with different %'s for different types of compensation and not necessarily just an upfront or one-time fee -- that would align your interests and also illustrate why your fees would be worth paying.

I'm curious why you would want to give it away for free since it would presumably be years before the new attendings you help for free would be in a position to hire you on the other side.
 
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I think there's a real value to your service provided there's no conflict of interest. Think sports agents. If your fee schedule were designed as a percentage of the physician's compensation -- potentially with different %'s for different types of compensation and not necessarily just an upfront or one-time fee -- that would align your interests and also illustrate why your fees would be worth paying.

I'm curious why you would want to give it away for free since it would presumably be years before the new attendings you help for free would be in a position to hire you on the other side.
DokterMom,

The hesitancy with charging a new physician for my services was out of recognition that he/she is likely just starting out and can't afford to pay. Hence, the thought that if I packaged it as a total solution with placement the hospital could pick up the tab.

I would much rather pursue a fee arrangement directly with the physician to avoid any perception of split loyalty.

I agree that there are likely multiple ways to structure a fee to ensure long term alignment especially as many deals a short guarantees and so many problems surface after 18 months to 2 years.

Again, I appreciate the feedback.
 
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Winged Scapula

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DokterMom,

The hesitancy with charging a new physician for my services was out of recognition that he/she is likely just starting out and can't afford to pay. Hence, the thought that if I packaged it as a total solution with placement the hospital could pick up the tab.

I would much rather pursue a fee arrangement directly with the physician to avoid any perception of split loyalty.

I agree that there are likely multiple ways to structure a fee to ensure long term alignment especially as many deals a short guarantees and so many problems surface after 18 months to 2 years.

Again, I appreciate the feedback.
You keep mentioning hospitals.

Not all physicians are hospital employees. While this is increasing, are you only targeting this avenue or did you not realize the many other employment options?
 

kchan99

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Aside from residents or fellows seeking clinical positions (hospital-employed, large group, or "private practice") positions, there is a minority seeking academic positions with both clinical and research components. These positions are mainly sought by fellows who are transitioning to an assistant professorships. They are not only looking at compensation, but also at protected research time, start up funds, lab space, etc., which can be negotiated. It would be helpful if you could learn about academic employment and offer contract-related legal services to this group of academic physicians.
 
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DokterMom

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DokterMom,

The hesitancy with charging a new physician for my services was out of recognition that he/she is likely just starting out and can't afford to pay. Hence, the thought that if I packaged it as a total solution with placement the hospital could pick up the tab.

I would much rather pursue a fee arrangement directly with the physician to avoid any perception of split loyalty.

I agree that there are likely multiple ways to structure a fee to ensure long term alignment especially as many deals a short guarantees and so many problems surface after 18 months to 2 years.

Again, I appreciate the feedback.
You bring up a valid point about new attendings often not having much money yet, but if you had a few sample offers that look similar on the surface but that contain some common pitfalls, then show how the difference between a "looks good but isn't" offer and a "looks similar but is really much better offer" could more than pay for your fees...

And of course, there's no law that says you'd have to get all your money up front. Your company, your rules, your payment plans. For example, you could take a bite out of a signing bonus, a bite out of an annual bonus, a monthly nibble from salaries or draws. Structure it so your cash comes when their cash comes.
 
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When I graduated from residency, the GME office had some people come in to do a "job search/contract" talk. While it was generic, they also gave a list of local contract attorneys with an interest in health care and physician contracts. Many of them gave a deal to new grads, including the one I used. It wasn't free, but it was a much more affordable option and you could even pay in installments if needed. Reach out to local academic centers/GME offices to see if they keep a "recommended" list for current residents and fellows who are interested.
 
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