Fellowship placement questions

[wkg244]

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As I consider my interviews at various university-based categorical IM programs, with an eye towards a fellowship in Cardiology, I've started to wonder about fellowship placement...

1. Compared to applying for university-based categorical IM, how much more or less do fellowship programs look at the reputation or "brand name" value of the residency program an applicant is coming from?

2. Another slightly different way of asking this is how much of a fellowship applicant's success is based on WHAT they do in residency as opposed to WHERE they do it?

For my money IM seems much more "reputation" oriented than I would have thought before applying... anyway, one more question:

3. Anyone have any tips as to figuring out the success of a residency program to place their residents in outside fellowship programs when the list the program gives you on their interview day shows that the majority of the applicants completed their fellowships at the home institution? It seems impossible to figure out whether this is because the residents were happy enough and wanted to stay on in one place, or whether they couldn't get anywhere else (which I guess is not a bad thing if the program is OK)...

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Bobblehead]

It's usually easier to be an internal applicant, particularly in a highly competitive specialty such as cardiology. With that in mind you may wish to consider residency at a program that has a cardiology program you'd be interested in going to (always bearing in mind you'll be living in the city for at least 6 years). That's likely why a lot of "good" residencies have a lot of their applicants transitioning into fellowship at that institution. There may be social (family, etc.) or professional (established research relationship, etc.) reasons for this beyond an inability to match elsewhere.

It seems that it matters significantly whom you know as much as what you know (you may be asked for Step 3 scores by some programs but there is little other hard data on you by this point in time). Publications of course matter as would a research project of some kind during residency. You will have a much better chance of getting a foot in the door to compete (i.e. getting an interview) coming from whatever you consider a top-tier university based program vs. a community program.

 

[wkg244]

Right, I understand that it would be advantageous to apply to Univ-based programs with Cards programs that take their own residents, and that it's in general easier to apply to fellowship from a Univ-based program.

My question has more to do with whether there is any way to determine whether residents from a residency program who tend to match into fellowship at their own program do so because they can't go anywhere else.

Also, by just looking at a residency program's fellowship placement record, does that really give you any indication as to how any INDIVIDUAL (ie me) would do in fellowship match? I mean, maybe all those people matching into great fellowships would have been superb applicants anywhere... Does the name of the residency really give you that much of a bump up? Or would you say it still boils down to the applicant. How much is coattails v. bootstraps?

 

[dieulafoy]

Right, I understand that it would be advantageous to apply to Univ-based programs with Cards programs that take their own residents, and that it's in general easier to apply to fellowship from a Univ-based program.

My question has more to do with whether there is any way to determine whether residents from a residency program who tend to match into fellowship at their own program do so because they can't go anywhere else.

Also, by just looking at a residency program's fellowship placement record, does that really give you any indication as to how any INDIVIDUAL (ie me) would do in fellowship match? I mean, maybe all those people matching into great fellowships would have been superb applicants anywhere... Does the name of the residency really give you that much of a bump up? Or would you say it still boils down to the applicant. How much is coattails v. bootstraps?

If you're looking for a surefire way of getting into a fellowship, there isn't any (obviously). I'm at a county, community, academic program in LA. Here's my 2 cents.

1) If you're set to go to a high-powered academic fellowship program (Such as UCSF, MGH, JH) because you're interested in research or because your ego demands that such an institution be on your resume, then you're best off going to the best program by "reputation" as possible. Remember that a big name institution may not have the best clinical training, as these programs mainly want to turn out academicians.

2) Also important is the program director, and how willing the PD is willing to go to bat for you for your fellowship (are they willing to call places you're interested in and stick their neck out?). Big, huge programs with great "reputations" often have PDs in their ivory towers who may not step up to the plate when fellowship apps are due.

3) No matter where you go, do research, especially something that you're interested in, because on the fellowship trail for competetive fellowships such as cards or GI, they will ask you: "What do you want to do with this training." Have an idea of the research questions you are interested in and how to answer them, because even if you're from harvard, saying "I like Cards and I'm interested in research" without details won't cut it.

4) Go to an IM place where you think you'll be happy. You will have to do leg work to find research anywhere you go, but going to a high powered program is no guarantee. A few years ago, nobody applying to GI from the UCLA IM program got in....not because they weren't qualified, but they all wanted to stay in southern california. so..

5) If you really want to do a competitive fellowship, apply broadly. It's also good to see what other programs are like.

Hope this helps, good luck.