Female surgeons

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K9VET

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This is a question for the male surgeons: do you have the impression that female surgeons are control freaks? Tend to micromanage everything? Just curious...

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This is a question for the male surgeons: do you have the impression that female surgeons are control freaks? Tend to micromanage everything? Just curious...
this post more relates to the word surgeon than female, i dont think gender matters when talkn about surgeons micromanaging
 
Yes, at my facility. :D
 
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This is a question for the male surgeons: do you have the impression that female surgeons are control freaks? Tend to micromanage everything?...
I am always troubled when folks are so quick to inject gender or race into the equation. Another similar thread, in the absence of ANY real problems, in which gender was injected.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=723916
I suggest folks think about other possibilities beyond just gender and/or race.....
 
I am always troubled when folks are so quick to inject gender or race into the equation. Another similar thread, in the absence of ANY real problems, in which gender was injected.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=723916
I suggest folks think about other possibilities beyond just gender and/or race.....


There is not reason to be troubled. Science has proved that major gender differences begin to take place very early in fetal life. These differences (brought about by sex-related hormones) do influence how men and women differ blatantly in their thinking, reasoning, emotions, communication style -- in essence -- behavior.
 
There is not reason to be troubled. Science has proved that major gender differences begin to take place very early in fetal life. These differences (brought about by sex-related hormones) do influence how men and women differ blatantly in their thinking, reasoning, emotions, communication style -- in essence -- behavior.

:corny:
 
...Science has proved that major gender differences begin to take place very early in fetal life. These differences (brought about by sex-related hormones) do influence how men and women differ blatantly in their thinking, reasoning, emotions, communication style -- in essence -- behavior.
I appreciate this. However, one's behavior is far more complex then simply gender. My concern is the knee jerk reaction to go there first! In essence, using these difference to immediately "profile" a resident or professional. I also find residents so quick to climb into these profiles as I think was being done in the other thread I left linked. I refer to the realities as pointed out by others:
this post more relates to the word surgeon than female, i dont think gender matters when talkn about surgeons micromanaging
Quite easy to simply use gender/race/orientation/lunar cycle to justify or make excuses. It is much harder to consider complex reality. The use of word "freak" and other such... well I leave it to others to infer.
I know that this means "quoted for truth," but I always think it means "Quit F-ing Talking." It confuses me, since they have opposite intentions.
QFT
 
I know that this means "quoted for truth," but I always think it means "Quit F-ing Talking." It confuses me, since they have opposite intentions.
When I first saw this I thought it was an acronym for some random function test I never heard of.. until I looked it up in the urban dictionary.
 
I dunno, I've always preferred female surgeons>>>male surgeons.

Often times, what's interpreted as micromanaging may be better attributed to different leadership styles, and those certainly traverse genders, etc.

At my home program, by far the surgeon who was most adept at micromanaging to the point of insisting which hand should initiate the move when tying a knot was male.

The surgeon also with a penchant for throwing tantrums, throwing instruments, physically assaulting residents and micromanaging OR nurses to get things precisely as he wished was also male.

I welcomed the dedicated teaching of the upper level residents, most of which came from the female upper levels, precisely because they were meticulous enough to give particular attention to that duty and perform it well. Some may misinterpret this as micromanaging.
 
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Medicine in general and surgery & emergency in particular - are highly stressful areas. Very long hours, demands a lot physically and mentally - not to mention the amount of stress. My impression is that after so many years in medical school, then internship, and after that a general surgery or emergency residency - well, you're talking about being how old? ~ 35 years old? I wonder how females manage having a family. And when the baby comes what do you do? Day care? No one can question that bonding is an essential aspect of mother-child relationship and that children that have mothers that stay at home thrive.
 
Medicine in general and surgery & emergency in particular - are highly stressful areas. Very long hours, demands a lot physically and mentally - not to mention the amount of stress. My impression is that after so many years in medical school, then internship, and after that a general surgery or emergency residency - well, you're talking about being how old? ~ 35 years old? I wonder how females manage having a family. And when the baby comes what do you do? Day care? No one can question that bonding is an essential aspect of mother-child relationship and that children that have mothers that stay at home thrive.

:troll:
 
...No one can question that bonding is an essential aspect of mother-child relationship and that children that have mothers that stay at home thrive.
really? Ok. no question, conversation done... not sure how it relates to opening salvo about control freaks and women...but don't really care either. Must agree::troll:
 
Medicine in general and surgery & emergency in particular - are highly stressful areas. Very long hours, demands a lot physically and mentally - not to mention the amount of stress. My impression is that after so many years in medical school, then internship, and after that a general surgery or emergency residency - well, you're talking about being how old? ~ 35 years old? I wonder how females manage having a family. And when the baby comes what do you do? Day care? No one can question that bonding is an essential aspect of mother-child relationship and that children that have mothers that stay at home thrive.

saw this coming...

:ninja:

:corny::corny::corny:
 
I know that this means "quoted for truth," but I always think it means "Quit F-ing Talking." It confuses me, since they have opposite intentions.

Show's how little I know about this online-speak. I always thought it meant "Quite f-ing true."

I guess they both mean the same thing...
 
children of working mothers also thrive--just sayin'.
 
And when the baby comes what do you do? Day care? No one can question that bonding is an essential aspect of mother-child relationship and that children that have mothers that stay at home thrive.

Here's a thought - how bout good ole Dad staying home to help the kid thrive?
 
I've known a few female surgeons who were major control freaks. Micromanaging everything, causing lab staff to live under terror and being a hell for all faculty members. One of these women did not hesitate to schedule her delivery date through c-section to be back to work ASAP. She actually did this twice! And the C-sections were not for medical reasons. Perhaps this female surgeon represents a small percentage of the female surgeon population. I don't know. But, sounds like crazy to put your career above your own family...
 
I've known a few surgeons who were major control freaks. Micromanaging everything, causing lab staff to live under terror and being a hell for all faculty members. . . Perhaps this surgeon represents a small percentage of the surgeon population. I don't know. But, sounds like crazy to put your career above your own family...

There, that's better.

What you describe could be characteristic of any surgeon.

Being a woman has nothing to do with it.
 
Let's play Mad Libs. I like my version better.

I've known a few veterinarians who liked to wear women's underwear. Shopping at Victoria's Secret, causing lab staff to live under terror and being a hell for all faculty members. One of these veterinarians did not hesitate to use the common work area computers to browse the internet for thongs and nipple pasties. The veterinarian actually did this twice! And the garments in question were not for medical reasons. Perhaps this veterinarian represents a small percentage of the veterinarian population. I don't know. But, sounds like crazy to put your personal preference for lingerie above your own career and animal patient welfare...
 
Frequently the same behavior in males and females is perceived differently.

Example: A behavior that is considered assertive (and therefore positive) in a male is sometimes considered bitchy (and therefore negative) in a female.
 
Let's play Mad Libs. I like my version better.

Hmmmm - nope. Your version has nothing to do with delivering babies before they are normally due just to be back to work...
 
Let's play Mad Libs. I like my version better.

...plus you're just a medical student... you haven't yet felt the full reality of the surgical working environment. So, why are you trying to present a version that is better? :eek:
 
...you haven't yet felt the full reality of the surgical working environment...
...says the trolling veterinarian? :laugh:
Apologies, but, the majority of vertrinarians I know or have spoken with have not felt the "full reality of the surgical working environment". In fact, most clinics and vets I have spoken with have techs performing the procedures spay/neuter/etc... The other stuff is often rare and does not represent a "reality" experience of "surgical working environment". Thus, vets often have very, very nice work hours of 9-5 and plenty of weekends off.
...Being a woman has nothing to do with it.
I bit my tongue on this one for awhile. I cringe to respond. But, I need to disagree a little. Just as presuming a certain behavior is based on a gender/race/religion/orientation/etc... is too simplistic, so is presuming these factors have "nothing to do with it". These are factors that have profound impacts on who we are and how we interact with the world.

I would say one's gender is a factor but we should not presume gender as the primary reason nor should we presume one's gender will automatically result and/or predispose to certain behavior.
 
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Apologies, but, the majority of vertrinarians I know or have spoken with have not felt the "full reality of the surgical working environment". In fact, most clinics and vets I have spoken with have techs performing the procedures spay/neuter/etc... The other stuff is often rare and does not represent a "reality" experience of "surgical working environment". Thus, vets often have very, very nice work hours of 9-5 and plenty of weekends off.

I would not take my pets to those vets! I (personally) have never been to a vet clinic where techs perform surgery. In regards to hours - you likely haven't been to specialty practices or referral hospitals, have you? Most vets work 15-16h day, particularly diplomats in emergency and critical care.
 
I would not take my pets to those vets! I (personally) have never been to a vet clinic where techs perform surgery. In regards to hours - you likely haven't been to specialty practices or referral hospitals, have you? Most vets work 15-16h day, particularly diplomats in emergency and critical care.
Have you ever seen your pet operated on? I would have no way of knowing who operated on my dogs when I was growing up. We dropped them off at the door and came back to pick them up the next day.
 
... In regards to hours - you likely haven't been to specialty practices or referral hospitals, have you?...
Actually, yes I have...
...Most vets work 15-16h day, particularly diplomats in emergency and critical care.
I would be surprised to see that. I suspect "most vets" do NOT work as "emergency and critical care". I suspect "most vets" do NOT work in "specialty practices or referral hospitals" (though they may list their clinic as one). It would appear "most vets" in all the cities I have been to have very set/specific hours (not even close to 15-16hr days) they work with alot of kennel service sales and medication/food sales...... They are usually a spay/neuter machine (mostly via tech, under conditions most people would find apalling) and/or "naturaL food"/pet herbs sales, vaccine sales, etc....

In fact, one of the reasons the society/organizations for vets oppose mail order vaccines is "local vets depend on vaccine sale profits in conjunction with spay & neuter services to maintain a financially viable practice". +pity+Based on what I pay for one of my pets emergencies, I am certain a vet working 15-16hrs/day would be making bank and not have to sell vaccines and/or prescription foods.


I think there are more then enough medicine vs surgery, who works more threads and debates without now getting into how hard vets work vs surgery. Why don't you take away from this thread that we just do't understand the pain and suffering of vets. The plight of the over worked, underpaid vet is alien to us.:troll:
 
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To be fair, the OP is not from the US, and just as we don't *really* know the working conditions of vets in the US, we certainly don't know much about it in South America.

However, I am friends with my vet - friends as in we socialize together. She has a practice with 2 other vets and works 0730 - 530 2 days a week, 0730 - 1200, 1 day, and then operates 0800 - around 300 or so 1 day. 1 Saturday morning a month (which is divied up amongst the 3). Thus, less than 40 hours per week, although she does have paperwork to do at home.

My grad school boyfriend was a pre-vet major who worked at one of those Emergency Vet Clinics - open 24 hrs. The vets there work shifts, and not 15-16 hr ones. I don't know if this is typical, but they worked 8 hour shifts. I'm sure the vets stayed over if they were operating, etc. but since he would stay as well and never stayed until the afternoon (he went into work at 11 pm), I highly doubt the vets were working the hours that the OP claims the vets in his country work.
 
To be fair, the OP is not from the US, and just as we don't *really* know the working conditions of vets in the US, we certainly don't know much about it in South America.

....my vet - ...has a practice with 2 other vets and works ...less than 40 hours per week, although she does have paperwork to do at home.

My grad school boyfriend was a pre-vet major who worked at one of those Emergency Vet Clinics - open 24 hrs. The vets there work shifts, and not 15-16 hr ones. I don't know if this is typical, but they worked 8 hour shifts. ...never stayed until the afternoon (he went into work at 11 pm), I highly doubt the vets were working the hours that the OP claims the vets in his country work.
Having spent much time in 3 South Am countries, having a few South Am vets as very, very good drinking partners, I didn't see the kind of hours the OP suggests. Agreed, I don't know what each country in South Am vets do...

I will also add that the physicians I met in South Am had alot of multi-hospital commuting but in general did not work at the level of US physicians. The visiting physicians I have worked with from Europe and South Am have all commented on how much surgical volume and workload we do in the USA. Of note, they often spent upwards of 3 months traveling at a time. Not what you could do for the most part as a USA physician/surgeon unless your practice was missionary work. Keep in mind in Europe and South Am just about everyone is socialized/unionized and physicians are known to rally and go on strike.

I have been fortunate or unfortunate (depending on point of view) of my pets all being "special projects" requiring high end specialty care and/or treatments.... from CT scans, hips to oral surgeon (braces) accross five states over the last 8 years. My USA experience is right in line with what WS has described.
 
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Braces? Did your goggie have teeth whitening too? :laugh:
actually.... yes! Had to have some chewing physical therapy too... i am so embarassed.:scared: My pets are a project. Everything pet insurance does not cover... my little ones have.
 
...plus you're just a medical student... you haven't yet felt the full reality of the surgical working environment. So, why are you trying to present a version that is better? :eek:

And you are a Vet... unless you went to med school, residency, and practiced MEDICINE, a medical student, particularly a 4th year, would probably have a better perspective than you.

So you are anti-vaccine , anti-choice to the extreme, anti-woman, and anti-american. I can see how every one of your threads degrading into everyone, even those that might support your view, bashing you personally...
 
And you are a Vet... unless you went to med school, residency, and practiced MEDICINE, a medical student, particularly a 4th year, would probably have a better perspective than you.

So you are anti-vaccine , anti-choice to the extreme, anti-woman, and anti-american. I can see how every one of your threads degrading into everyone, even those that might support your view, bashing you personally...

Anti- vaccine - no, on the contrary I do vaccinate my children.
Anti-Choice - you're very wrong here. I am totally pro-choice. I am totally in favor of giving the unborn, defenseless child a choice to live. If you are not pro-life, I am sure you are in the wrong, wrong career. You'd better change to something else. Anything, but medicine please!
Anti-woman - Not at all. I just see so many unhappy "career women" out there. They make huge efforts to wear the pants and prove that they can be like men" to obtain a sense of "self worth" and to be fully accepted as important individuals. Self worth will never come this way. It's a futile attempt. In addition, I am happily married. Have a wonderful wife, who, after becoming a mother realized there is nothing more fulfilling. So, she quit her career and has the most important job in this world: nurturing, loving and raising our children.
Anti-American? Where did you get THAT from? (LOL)! Amazing! So, now if you are pro-Constitution you are anti-American? First, I AM a US Citizen. Second, I come from a military family. I definitely am AGAINST this fake, deceptive, ANTI-PEOPLE, UNCONSTITUTIONAL, imperialistic form of government that we have. I love liberty. I love freedom. Governments don't do any good. They are the cause of humanity's main problems and pains. It saddens me (deeply) to see America so far away from the principles of our Founding Fathers and Americans so oblivious to what is really going on. "Anti-American" - LOL!!!

Any more accusations?
 
I just don't understand why this vet is here? Seems, looking at the socio-political threads you have initiated and had moved, you have come here really just seeking to stir up debates. Isn't there a vet forum you can discuss with your colleagues? I am certain you could be debating females in vet surgery and control issues there...

:troll:
 
Anti-Choice - you're very wrong here. I am totally pro-choice. I am totally in favor of giving the unborn, defenseless child a choice to live. If you are not pro-life, I am sure you are in the wrong, wrong career. You'd better change to something else. Anything, but medicine please!

:beat: you aren't convincing me, just like I am not convincing you. Luckily for me, I am in medicine, and although going into surgery, have considered doing pro-bono work/side work being an abortion provider to prevent fringe individuals like you from taking away any opportunity to have access to care. I have worked at my schools clinic, and understand that while I wouldn't necessarily make the decisions they made, my job is service of my patient and provide the best possible care I can for them. Fetuses are not living beings... until viability they are much more analogous to parasites or tumors (not that I believe them to be such), growing and receiving all their nurishment and substanence from the woman. If they could survive without the host then I would support more of allowing them that opportunity, but since they can not, I can not force the woman to continue to provide the nurishment and substanance when they do not want to... if they were viable, the woman could give it to adoption and not be required to provide anything for it any more, preserving both beings liberty.

Anti-woman - Not at all. I just see so many unhappy "career women" out there. They make huge efforts to wear the pants and prove that they can be like men" to obtain a sense of "self worth" and to be fully accepted as important individuals. Self worth will never come this way. It's a futile attempt. In addition, I am happily married. Have a wonderful wife, who, after becoming a mother realized there is nothing more fulfilling. So, she quit her career and has the most important job in this world: nurturing, loving and raising our children.

Misogeny at its best: Terms like career woman, wear the pants, prove they can be like men, the notion that a womans place is at home and her job is to raise the children while the Man goes off to work. There is nothing inherent about men and women that makes one more suited to work and another more suited for house work. All of that are social constructs, which, to you and your Fox News, tea party breathern, are become antiquated, out dated, and proven to be falsehoods. Plus, there have been studies (sorry for not quoting them) that couples without children actually have getter life satisfaction, as well as all the studies showing that children in households with a mother working have no different outcomes. Just because you love women and love your wife, does not mean you aren't sexist and, as I put it, anti-woman.

Anti-American? Where did you get THAT from? (LOL)! Amazing! So, now if you are pro-Constitution you are anti-American? First, I AM a US Citizen. Second, I come from a military family. I definitely am AGAINST this fake, deceptive, ANTI-PEOPLE, UNCONSTITUTIONAL, imperialistic form of government that we have. I love liberty. I love freedom. Governments don't do any good. They are the cause of humanity's main problems and pains. It saddens me (deeply) to see America so far away from the principles of our Founding Fathers and Americans so oblivious to what is really going on. "Anti-American" - LOL!!!

You fundamentalists that think the founders were infallible make me laugh. They understood that the constitution was a compromise, and understood that as times changed, so did laws and thus the document needed to be fluid. Hense why there was congress to enact laws (if everything was set in the constitution, then why do we need to make any new laws?), hense why the constitution could be amended. Using your logic, we should still own slaves, women, besides having their place in the home while you go out to work, wouldn't be allowed to vote. There would be no minimum wage, no safety standards in industry, no public health considerations. Just because you disagree with the politics of the governing party does not make it unconstitutional or imperialistic. If governments didn't do any good, the founding fathers would have established no government and allowed Anarchy to reign supreme. But governments and peoples belief in their authority is the only thing that makes any law legitimate, makes anything in the constitution or any other governing document legitimate, so your statement of hating the government, of calling the democratically elected President of the united states imperialistic does qualify as un-american. You can disagree with the policies, disagree with the tactics, and use your voice to constructively try to influence it (a 1st amendment right) and use your vote to change it... but now that the Supreme Court allows unlimited corporate "free speech" in the form of money, and the fact that corporations are "people" means that those people will be the major voices and influences.

Any more accusations?

I think your posts speak for themselves.
:poke::bang::annoyed::diebanana:
 
Can we have this thread now moved to the sociopolitical forum along with the other threads initiated by this k9 vet:confused:?


...QFT?
 
Can we have this thread now moved to the sociopolitical forum along with the other threads initiated by this k9 vet:confused:?


...QFT?

i concur... i won't let him go unrebutted, for being a tool and a troll does not excuss him from being put in his place, but I would prefer if the thread was closed or moved...
 
Can we have this thread now moved to the sociopolitical forum along with the other threads initiated by this k9 vet:confused:?


...QFT?
Or just close it down before he responds again. This isn't going anywhere.
 
ranting3.gif
http://www.21softs.com/emoticons/images/ranting3.gif

The stench of K9VET is spreading all over SDN.
 
Agree with the multiple users that reported this thread that it should be closed or moved.

It was all I could do today between cases not to respond that I AM an important individual and it has nothing to do with my career, family, and is without attempts to seek external validation.

I have chosen to close the thread as it has nothing to do with surgery, surgical residency or female surgeons. It is nothing more than paternalism and misogyny which is not welcome here.
 
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