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Fewer U.S. grads applying to FM this year?

Discussion in 'Family Medicine' started by INFMSpouse, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. INFMSpouse

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    I'm just curious if any other programs are noticing fewer MD and DO grads from U.S. med schools applying. My spouse's program has experienced a significant reduction in apps this year. They are interviewing FMGs and Caribbean grads for the first time in a long time. I'm not implying that there is anything wrong with that, I'm just wondering if others have noticed the same thing.
     
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  3. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
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    Most programs noticed this several years ago.
     
  4. sophiejane

    sophiejane Exhausted
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    We have a handful fewer "interviewable" applicants this year, but not a sharp drop.
     
  5. andwhat

    andwhat Senior Member
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    I predicted this exactly, several months ago. Unfortunate -- but if the system does not want to fairly, and adequately compensate Primary Care, then people just have to deal with the repercussions....
     
  6. Joe Richards

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    It's easy to predict something thats already been going on for 10 years. ;)
     
  7. andwhat

    andwhat Senior Member
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    I predicted it, and dont get it at all...... I mean what in the world is wrong with more than $200 K, and half the year off... dont understand why people cannot understand that, its lifestyle above anything..
    Traditional FM outpatient is nice also.... I dont see anyone unhappy...
     
  8. Joe Richards

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    You perdicted it??? No one else in here or in the United States, like all those PDs did not see it coming but you. Wow.:rolleyes:
     
  9. andwhat

    andwhat Senior Member
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    thanks man! :cool: I love appreciation!
     
  10. Joe Richards

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    It must be your week on. :D
     
  11. andwhat

    andwhat Senior Member
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    nope actually week off... :thumbup:
     
  12. iatrosB

    iatrosB trying not to kill anyone
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    One of the programs I interviewed at alluded to a lower number of applicants this year. :thumbdown: Bad news for the medical system.
     
  13. Old_Mil

    Old_Mil Senior Member
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    I don't know where you're seeing FM docs compensated at that level with that much time off, but it simply isn't the case in what I've seen. I actually considered FM for a short period of time after spending time at a rural site where FM did everything (clinic, rounding, EM coverage).

    As much as I liked the place and that style of do everything practice, the bottom line was a guarantee of $190k a year that went down 10% a year - with no floor - each year you didn't bonus (at a threshhold of $390,000) for 5.5 days a week of work + Q3 call.

    I could easily see myself in a position where I would never meet that production threshhold and find myself with a decreasing annual income in a community that small.

    With hospitalists making $170,000 for 14 days a month and EM guys making $250,000 for much less work - and with $150,000 in student loans, it simply wasn't a decision I could make.
     
  14. iatrosB

    iatrosB trying not to kill anyone
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    He's a hospitalist...and he/she confuses that with "primary care" a lot :D
     
  15. andwhat

    andwhat Senior Member
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    First of all check out this discussion

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=580976

    whoaaaaaaaaaa your post is skewed.... ER docs doing less work than Hospitalists??? Have you actually done both? Nooo way, no how.... Hmmm lets analyze...
    code after code, 'oh no, not the helicopter again, that is dropping off the decompensating left ventricular aneurysm patient, what about the car accident with multiple fractures and epidural hematoma and L.O.C. coming in from the ambulance at the exact same time?? Man, it is the end of my shift?!' vs Pneumonia and Intractable Migraine, Placement issue, already worked up in the ED.
    Some shifts we have tough nights, but not nearly the mental, and physical effort (exhaustion) at times vs the ED docs. Not even close. And as far as compensation?? No -- that is not at all accurate. There isn't a Hospitalist that makes less than $200 K. If there is, then bravo for them.
    No no no no no that is not accurate, ER docs making $250 K for much less work. We make almost the same monetarily, and the ER docs do much more work. My good friend is an ER doc (ER certified) in the same system. Although he works a few less shifts than I do, (on most but not all months) we make around the same, and he works significantly harder. He works at least 6 nights per month, I work as many as I want to (0-4 maximum, and I do not have to stay in the Hospital).
    ER doc works the full 12 hour shift (as a matter of fact usually at least one hour more), as opposed to me -- I go home at around 1-2 p.m. unless I am admitting. I have been finished at 11 a.m (rounding, starting at 8 a.m.). You tell me who is working harder? It is hard work -- it is challenging, but not nearly as hard as other specialties -- plus the lifestyle issue -- shiftwork. I am done when I choose to done, and I have significant time off every month.
    5.5 days on Q3 call is misery -- not worth any amount of money in my opinion.
    This is not at all accurate. There is no truth in your statment. E.R. is burnout dude, any way that you approach it, or try to deny it.
    Hospitalist medicine presents a much better lifestyle than the ER.
    I will give you the benefit of doubt here though, because I suppose it does depend what planet you are on. Here on earth, ER Medicine is more rigorous, harder than Hospitalist Medicine (on most shifts), and most certainly does not pay significantly more money.
    Please try again.
    Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.
     
    #14 andwhat, Dec 31, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  16. Old_Mil

    Old_Mil Senior Member
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    I was comparing EM to 5.5 days a week + Q3 call, not hospitalist medicine...
     
  17. andwhat

    andwhat Senior Member
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    my mistake :( sorry.
     
  18. ZincFingers

    ZincFingers HI EVERYONE!!1!
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    Radiology is experiencing a huge spike this year in applicants, or so I hear around the campfire. One of my classmates complained that a PD where she applied was openly using 250 as a cut-off :O instead of 230 where it used to be.

    As long as our best and brightest are encouraged to pursue ROAD specialties, primary care will continue to suffer. Those that do like primary care tend to go IM to leave the door open for future specialization. (sadly, I am one of those people. It still makes no sense to me why the big fellowships are not open to FM.)
     
  19. sophiejane

    sophiejane Exhausted
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    I see what you are saying, but it's more complicated than that.

    It's not just that the "best and brightest" are "encouraged" to specialize, they seek it because they can and the pay and lifestyle are, so they are told, better.

    I say hold on for the ride, no matter what your specialty. All bets are off for the future. We are in a ridiculously expensive, specialist-topheavy time in the history of medicine in this country. The need is for primary care. The medical schools and specialty boards are not cooperating in producing primary care docs...critical shortage of primary care+oversupply of specialists=something's got to give.

    We haven't hit the tipping point yet, but when we do, friends, I'll be well trained and desperately needed, which puts me at an advantage over my "ROAD" driven colleagues.

    Time will tell.
     
  20. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
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    Yep. I sure hope all those folks who picked rads or gas solely because of the bucks really like what they're doing, 'cause there's a very good chance that they'll be doing it for a lot less money in the (not so distant) future.
     
  21. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio.
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    There's no logic behind it. Don't look for any.
     
  22. iatrosB

    iatrosB trying not to kill anyone
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    agreed
     
  23. secretwave101

    secretwave101 Senior Member
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    I think this thread is actually about 12 years old and it just gets revived every year about this time.

    Then each year the results come in and there's about a 90% fill-rate, about 60% by US grads.

    It's true that the US system needs to emphasize primary care, and we're too expensive because of all the specialists, lawyers and insurance overhead. I agree with Blue Dog that gas and rads might want to be brushing up their resumes.

    But as for the yearly "big drop" worries - no good evidence, people. Just hang in there and wait for the data.
     
  24. MeowMix

    MeowMix Explaining "Post-Call"
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    Maybe it's just that the same number of people are each applying to fewer FM programs. We'll see after the match!

    I'm working with a med student who is already set on radiology, because it offers a "better lifestyle" for the kids she plans to have with the husband she doesn't have yet (she's 100% single). That is about the dumbest reason for choosing a specialty I can think of. I hope she matches into radiology, and doesn't end up miserably scrambling into my program...
     
  25. iatrosB

    iatrosB trying not to kill anyone
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    :laugh:
    Is her name Elliot Reed?
     
  26. medicienne

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    For me its simple- I like the type of day-to-day life stuff that FPs handle & chronic disease management. So that'll keep me happy no matter how much the compensation is.
     
  27. CambieMD

    CambieMD cambiemd
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    I left FM for anesthesia. I left FM for several reasons. Money was not @ the top of my list. I spent way too much time completing paper work and filling out forms. I had mountains of charts to dictate in the hospital. My job satisfaction was very low.

    I am @ a level one trauma center. I work very hard some days.

    I like some aspects of primary care. I really enjoy speaking to patients and I get a fair amount of, "awake" ,interactions with patients. I am a generalist so I administer anesthesia for a wide variety of cases.

    The powers that be can attempt to force med students to go into certain specialties but it will not work. The work is too grueling for some of us.

    If my income were cut in half I would not regret my choice. I do not make a lot of money. I am in academics.

    Some med students choose anesthesia for the wrong reasons and that is sad. Ones choice of specialty should be driven by a curiosity and a love for the disipline.

    Seeing thirty patients a day and working your fingers to the bone is not appealing to a lot of people.

    My present job can be stressed filled and demanding but that is ok with me.


    Cambie
     

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