Filing as economically disadvantaged?

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Lokhtar

Dreaming about the lions
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What does this mean? I grew up in pretty abject poverty (3rd world, I couldn't read until 11) until I was about 12. Then I moved here, and we were pretty poor for most of my teenage years, until I started college. But since the age of 20, I have a good job, and I am certainly not economically disadvantaged anymore (I'm 23 now) and neither is my family.

How does this work? Does it only include current status or does it count when you grew up poor?

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What does this mean? I grew up in pretty abject poverty (3rd world, I couldn't read until 11) until I was about 12. Then I moved here, and we were pretty poor for most of my teenage years, until I started college. But since the age of 20, I have a good job, and I am certainly not economically disadvantaged anymore (I'm 23 now) and neither is my family.

How does this work? Does it only include current status or does it count when you grew up poor?
This is exactly what this status was created for. You definitely qualify; it concerns more how you grew up, and not what status you have now.
 
This is exactly what this status was created for. You definitely qualify; it concerns more how you grew up, and not what status you have now.

Even if I classify myself as upper middle class for the past four-five years?
 
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Even if I classify myself as upper middle class for the past four-five years?

Yes, it is only concerned with your life from birth until age 18. You should just be honest and think of this as a way to give more information about yourself...you do get to write an additional essay as a result.
 
Even if I classify myself as upper middle class for the past four-five years?
Yup- the point is that you overcame conditions that would lend themselves to not getting to where you are. Whether you're poor or rich you can get financial aid or loans or family to pay for college. It's when your growing up that this is going to put you at more of a disadvantage. If your family can't afford nicer school supplies, you couldn't do extracurriculars or stay after for extra help because you had to work once you were old enoguh, you can't afford a tutor or extra help when you need it, these are things that are going to affect the foundations of your education, making it unlikely that you'll have a strong enough basis to move on to higher education.
 
It's not simply a checkbox anyway. You will be able to explain your background.
 
Yes, that is why the option exists. Despite your status now, you grew up in a poor area and faced many challenges that others do not have to face on their road to medical school.

I applied with this status and medical schools definitely took it into consideration.
 
Yea, I mean its weird: no I couldn't afford the nicer things since my parents combined salary was about $75/month when I was born (around $110/month when we moved to the US). But I never felt like I was in as bad shape as a lot of the others in my country - there were people a lot worse than I was. And in the US, education was free, even though we couldn't get nice things, so I felt kind of bad applying for that status.

I appreciate your help, and thank you for the replies.
 
Yea, I mean its weird: no I couldn't afford the nicer things since my parents combined salary was about $75/month when I was born (around $110/month when we moved to the US). But I never felt like I was in as bad shape as a lot of the others in my country - there were people a lot worse than I was. And in the US, education was free, even though we couldn't get nice things, so I felt kind of bad applying for that status.

I appreciate your help, and thank you for the replies.
I chose not to apply for it, and one of my letter writers kind of outted me in their letter. He wrote a phenominal letter from what i've been told by interviewers, but i walked into my second interview and was quickly asked about being kicked out of my family's house at such a young age, etc, and was very confused as to how they knew. I think it's a great thing that this option is offered, I just felt like I didn't really qualify although others told me that i did. But situations like yours are why i didn't feel like i deserved it-- i learned to read at 3, went to decent public schools since i was 5, and never had any conditions in a poorer country or anything like that. I grew up in ny where granted i didn't always have money, but i always had some distant relative willing to help out. you were definitely put at a disadvantage as you said you didn't learn to read until 11 or 12, and overcoming that obstacle and being at a point where you can apply to medical school-- that is more than an accomplishment. That is amazing.
 
Yea, I mean its weird: no I couldn't afford the nicer things since my parents combined salary was about $75/month when I was born (around $110/month when we moved to the US). But I never felt like I was in as bad shape as a lot of the others in my country - there were people a lot worse than I was. And in the US, education was free, even though we couldn't get nice things, so I felt kind of bad applying for that status.

I appreciate your help, and thank you for the replies.

It's interesting that you mention this. Just goes to show how people judge status and poverty in relative terms. What are you from if you don't mind saying?
 
It's interesting that you mention this. Just goes to show how people judge status and poverty in relative terms. What are you from if you don't mind saying?

It is completely relative. I made $300/month in Peace Corps and I was rich by local standards.

My village friends made less than half that, but I would say that they were rich in terms of happiness, supportive families, low stress lifestyles.
 
It's interesting that you mention this. Just goes to show how people judge status and poverty in relative terms. What are you from if you don't mind saying?

It is completely relative. I made $300/month in Peace Corps and I was rich by local standards.

My village friends made less than half that, but I would say that they were rich in terms of happiness, supportive families, low stress lifestyles.

Exactly. It's very relative. $100 there went a lot farther than $100 here. I mean, we had to watch how much milk we bought and could afford a cup of ice cream only like once a month (explains why I was thin back then :laugh:), but it was never to the point where I wondered if I could eat this afternoon. If I got sick, my parents borrowed money and took me to see a doctor, etc. And I had a family that was absolutely and utterly supportive (both worked 80+ hours a week even in the US).

That's why I am not sure I deserve the status. There were people living literally next to me who did not have even a roof over their heads and did have to worry about whether they will be able to eat that afternoon.
 
Exactly. It's very relative. $100 there went a lot farther than $100 here. I mean, we had to watch how much milk we bought and could afford a cup of ice cream only like once a month (explains why I was thin back then :laugh:), but it was never to the point where I wondered if I could eat this afternoon. If I got sick, my parents borrowed money and took me to see a doctor, etc. And I had a family that was absolutely and utterly supportive (both worked 80+ hours a week even in the US).

That's why I am not sure I deserve the status. There were people living literally next to me who did not have even a roof over their heads and did have to worry about whether they will be able to eat that afternoon.

Ice cream?

I can count the number of times I ate ice cream in Africa on one hand. It was definitely a luxury that I could not afford.
 
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Ice cream?

I can count the number of times I ate ice cream in Africa on one hand. It was definitely a luxury that I could not afford.

Bingo. I didn't have it that bad comparatively.

I think I might be better off not filing such a status. Thanks for help.
 
Bingo. I didn't have it that bad comparatively.

I think I might be better off not filing such a status. Thanks for help.
I still think that the literacy issue alone put you at such a strong disadvantage that you should apply. It is a personal decision though, so good luck with whatever you decide.
 
Dude definitely apply as disadvantaged. The comparison they want you to make is not against the standard of living in your country it's against the US population and the pre-med applicant pool. Do yourself a favor and let them know.
 
I still think that the literacy issue alone put you at such a strong disadvantage that you should apply. It is a personal decision though, so good luck with whatever you decide.

I think the academic factors and culturally adjusting to the US would make you disadvantaged. Those are definitely obstacles that you overcame that most people don't have to deal with.

The ultimate decision rests with you. Do what you feel is right.
 
It is completely relative. I made $300/month in Peace Corps and I was rich by local standards.

My village friends made less than half that, but I would say that they were rich in terms of happiness, supportive families, low stress lifestyles.

On the opposite end of the spectrum Michael Marmot conducted two studies on the british civil servant sector and determined there was a gradient of health that corresponded to the employees status within their department. That is those in higher positions enjoyed higher life expectancy less heart disease etc, even though they were all financial secure. Fascinating stuff.
 
Since I am certainly not disadvantaged now, and I did have a good family that did its best, I don't think I'd be that comfortable in applying for the status right now. I won't be applying for a while, so I'll think about it. I have never and don't want to ever use it as a crutch. I am going to be a doctor either way.
 
On the opposite end of the spectrum Michael Marmot conducted two studies on the british civil servant sector and determined there was a gradient of health that corresponded to the employees status within their department. That is those in higher positions enjoyed higher life expectancy less heart disease etc, even though they were all financial secure. Fascinating stuff.

That is interesting.

Obviously, health suffered where I was. There's no doubt about that, but I think that people fail to realize that money/modernity/copious amounts of food don't translate to happiness. Most people here aren't happy, not in the ways that my "poor" African friends were anyways.
 
Since I am certainly not disadvantaged now, and I did have a good family that did its best, I don't think I'd be that comfortable in applying for the status right now. I won't be applying for a while, so I'll think about it. I have never and don't want to ever use it as a crutch. I am going to be a doctor either way.

Your background will make you diverse and interesting no matter what. I think many med schools will look on this favorably whether you ask for formal consideration or not.
 
Since I am certainly not disadvantaged now, and I did have a good family that did its best, I don't think I'd be that comfortable in applying for the status right now. I won't be applying for a while, so I'll think about it. I have never and don't want to ever use it as a crutch. I am going to be a doctor either way.

I don't think that it really gives you that much of a bump. Look at my app for example. I have a competitive mcat (32R), and a less than competitive gpa (3.36, with 3.4 bpcm). I do have some very unique ec's, did very well at a postbac, have good letters and all of this, coupled with growing up disadvantaged, has resulted in 4 interviews so far. I don't have 20 interviews, so I feel it is safe to say that selecting this option was no magic pill. To not select this option, in a situation like yours, is like holding back information. Let me be more specific.

In my case with BU, they are the only school that I am sure had a strong interest in the fact I grew up disadvantaged. This is not because they felt sorry for me :) Rather, they are an extension of a public/private partnership and place a greater emphasis than most on treating the indigent population. As a result, they had an interest in an applicant like myself, who is likely to not be turned off by treating the poor (which is true in my case). If I didn't select that option, they may have thought less of me and not offered an interview. As a result, I would never have visited this school which left such a positive impression on me.

The moral of the story? Schools are looking for good fits, they are not in the business to give handouts. It is in your best interest to give them as much information on your background as you can so they can determine if you would match well with their beliefs.
 
I don't think that it really gives you that much of a bump. Look at my app for example. I have a competitive mcat (32R), and a less than competitive gpa (3.36, with 3.4 bpcm). I do have some very unique ec's, did very well at a postbac, have good letters and all of this, coupled with growing up disadvantaged, has resulted in 4 interviews so far. I don't have 20 interviews, so I feel it is safe to say that selecting this option was no magic pill. To not select this option, in a situation like yours, is like holding back information. Let me be more specific.

In my case with BU, they are the only school that I am sure had a strong interest in the fact I grew up disadvantaged. This is not because they felt sorry for me :) Rather, they are an extension of a public/private partnership and place a greater emphasis than most on treating the indigent population. As a result, they had an interest in an applicant like myself, who is likely to not be turned off by treating the poor (which is true in my case). If I didn't select that option, they may have thought less of me and not offered an interview. As a result, I would never have visited this school which left such a positive impression on me.

The moral of the story? Schools are looking for good fits, they are not in the business to give handouts. It is in your best interest to give them as much information on your background as you can so they can determine if you would match well with their beliefs.


The premed process is really starting to get to you when you start referring to past careers as "ECs" :laugh:
 
The premed process is really starting to get to you when you start referring to past careers as "ECs" :laugh:

LOL!!!! Yeah, maybe they should add a "past careers" section to AMCAS!
 
listen to me. you need to let the adcoms know what you have overcome. After you select that you are economically disadvantaged in the AMCAS application, another screen will come up asking you specifically about your CHILDHOOD and how and where you grew up. it will ask about your family and it gives you a section to explain and add any information. and just because you are fine now, they obviously want a complete picture of your entire situation--past and present.


and fyi--the application states that it does not have to be just economic disadvantage--also growing up in an underserved community or social disadvantage.
 
Good suggestions
 
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The better question is, what does economically disadvantaged do for your chances getting into medical school?
 
When we get into URM debates, someone brings up the question of economic advantage and points out that many URM are from wealthy families. True enough. The "disadvantaged" section on the AMCAS gives URM and non-URM the chance to explain a background which may have contributed to a lack of opportunities that one experienced as a child.

to the OP: list your average family income in the States from the time you moved here until you turned 18. That's an easier number for the adcom to deal with than a number from a different economy. Did you qualify for gov't assistance in the US such as free lunch in school? If so, note it (government assistance). It sounds like you worked to contribute to the household expenses, note it.

Does it hurt or help? It might help. It certainly adds a dimension to your application and anything that makes you "come alive" on paper helps a little bit. I have seen it hurt when someone throws a pity party because they were born when dad's income as a grad student or resident was relatively low (but still above the poverty level) although they soon enough rose into the top 1% of the US population for family income. That kind of cry baby is just a turn off.
 
Does it hurt or help? It might help. It certainly adds a dimension to your application and anything that makes you "come alive" on paper helps a little bit. I have seen it hurt when someone throws a pity party because they were born when dad's income as a grad student or resident was relatively low (but still above the poverty level) although they soon enough rose into the top 1% of the US population for family income. That kind of cry baby is just a turn off.

Yea, my peops are still poor. LOL!:laugh:
 
I just want to emphasize that the disadvantaged section refers to age 0-18. A non-trad can be making a six figure income & still use the disadvantaged section to explain his or her formative years in poverty.

Just don't use it if you were an infant in relative poverty (parents still in school) but were a country club member by the age of six or seven.
 
I just want to emphasize that the disadvantaged section refers to age 0-18. A non-trad can be making a six figure income & still use the disadvantaged section to explain his or her formative years in poverty.

Just don't use it if you were an infant in relative poverty (parents still in school) but were a country club member by the age of six or seven.

Lizzy, what about someone who lived relatively middle class until age 10 or 11 and then went downhill? (My previous post at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=482624&highlight=didn't+graduate+high+school )
 
I just want to emphasize that the disadvantaged section refers to age 0-18. A non-trad can be making a six figure income & still use the disadvantaged section to explain his or her formative years in poverty.

Just don't use it if you were an infant in relative poverty (parents still in school) but were a country club member by the age of six or seven.

If your family income was slightly above the poverty level, would it still count or is poverty the cut off point? We did qualify for government assistance (welfare, food stamps, etc) but my dad chose not to use it because he didn't want to become dependent on it, so it wasn't a normal situation.
 
Downhill after age 11 certainly qualifies and I've seen applicants who had a parent die or become disfunctional (addiction or other mental of physical disability) at that point in their life and they were in the "disadvantaged" category for the next 5-6 years.

Being economically independent and working low level jobs to support yourself from age 16 on might certainly qualify and would describe the disadvantage that you overcame in comparison to the average upper-middle class pre-med applicant.

The form asks if you recevied gov't assistance. If the answer is "no" you can still explain in the free text section that you were eligible but that dad chose not to accept help.
 
Downhill after age 11 certainly qualifies and I've seen applicants who had a parent die or become disfunctional (addiction or other mental of physical disability) at that point in their life and they were in the "disadvantaged" category for the next 5-6 years.

Being economically independent and working low level jobs to support yourself from age 16 on might certainly qualify and would describe the disadvantage that you overcame in comparison to the average upper-middle class pre-med applicant.

The form asks if you recevied gov't assistance. If the answer is "no" you can still explain in the free text section that you were eligible but that dad chose not to accept help.

I don't have a dad (single mom), so I was stuck with my mom until I was old enough to leave HS and move out (and petition for legal emancipation). I didn't receive government assistance because, honestly, I didn't know enough to apply. :oops:

Thanks for the input, Lizzy. It's great to have an adcom's perspective.
 
Downhill after age 11 certainly qualifies and I've seen applicants who had a parent die or become disfunctional (addiction or other mental of physical disability) at that point in their life and they were in the "disadvantaged" category for the next 5-6 years.

Being economically independent and working low level jobs to support yourself from age 16 on might certainly qualify and would describe the disadvantage that you overcame in comparison to the average upper-middle class pre-med applicant.

The form asks if you recevied gov't assistance. If the answer is "no" you can still explain in the free text section that you were eligible but that dad chose not to accept help.

Lizzy, you talk like a politician. :laugh:
 
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