Finish residency and leave the country?

[H0mersimps0n]

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Anyone ever heard of physicians taking off to other countries after finishing residency?

I was thinking Canada, England, New Zealand or Australia.

What would be the complications? Where would someone start looking?

thanks

 

[LukeWhite]

There will probably be pretty serious complications with the last three (and maybe certain provinces in Canada, though I'm less sure on that).

Most of the British Commonwealth countries don't allow DO's to practice, or at the most allow them to practice only manipulation.

If I remember rightly, one of AT Still's students went back to England to set up osteopathic schools, but didn't have much luck getting full practice rights. So the osteopaths in these countries don't have a full scope of practice--they're strictly manipulation.

I think there are a few threads in which people have anecdotally mentioned DO friends who managed to somehow get past this. In general, it's very difficult to practice medicine as a US doc in Europe, and not too fun anyhow. Medicine's quite different over there, and even if you were granted practice rights, you'd have to do so through extensive retraining and/or supervision, and quite possibly wouldn't like it anyhow.

Most countries that are more hard-pressed for docs will gladly accept DO's. The catch, of course, is that there are precisely the countries that aren't going to be able to support a paying practice.

I did a fair amount of research into practicing medicine overseas, and it seems like the best route, if your international interest is humanitarian, is to work for a time in the US and then go overseas to do free clinic work. You can earn at least twice as much in one year of American practice as anywhere else, which with proper savings would allow you to take another year or two off to do charity medicine internationally. If you hitch on to a locum tenens program, you can work in the US whenever you like and take off when the mood strikes without having to worry about complications like malpractice, overhead, etc.

 

[gioia]

I agree. With Australia being desperate for physicians, I would imagine there is hope in that arena but Europe is a ......very.....s..l...o...w.....t...o..........c..h..a....n...g..e..... knot of bureaucratic worms. They have osteopaths but they are NOT practicing physicians.

You could take time out to market DO's to New Zealand and Australia, then I will have a place to go
😀 .

 

[RockandRolldoc]

It's sort of a bummer too considering AT Still's right hand man at the original American School of Osetopathy at Kirksville was a Scottish Physician. I'm not sure about the other countries in the commonwealth, but DO's can practice in England. It's not easy, in fact, it's a real pain in the ass, but it is not unheard of. The reason I know this, is because a person in my family who runs a DO GI fellowship had one one of his fellows move to England.

A little note on the whole foreign thing.....

One of the most common attacks on Osteopathic Medicine is the failure of certain countries to distinguish the American Osteopathic degree as a medical degree from the European/Oceanic osteopathic degree--a purely manual medicine degree. I always read things like... " Yea but you cannot practice internationally." and I really find it funny because the context people write these things is such that it seems like 90 % of the pre-MD population has plans to establish their practice in a foreign country. I guess we're going to see Doctors leaving this country in the thousands for the greener pastures of England, China, and Pakistan....

Now let's look at the reality of the matter. Most of us are staying right here in the good ole USA. When I go to Europe, I'm going as a tourist. After I graduated from college, I took the summer before med school to backpack across Europe. It was an amazing experience, I saw all the beautiful sights, slept in the most shady places you can imagine, met some of the most interesting people, and just had a hell of a time. Of course I did it on a shoestring budget, but I swore that the next time I returned to Europe, it would be with money and that I would do it in luxury-- point being, I'm gonna vacation there, possibly have my honeymoon there one day... but I'm not settling down there. After working as hard as I will be, I will not want to think about medicine when i'm on vacation.. just picture the opening scene in Dr. Shem's book, the house of God when Dr. Bash is on the beach with his naked girlfriend....

Here's some more reality.... Most European countries will accept DO's, but regardless of their degree, there will still be a bumpy road ahead. Most American MD's will encounter almost as much difficulty gaining practice rights in European countries. Why? The same overall reason why DO's will have difficulty--Because most of these countries have socialized medical systems where they rely heavily on their own population by investing in their medical education. The same reason why state Universities usually take their own over people from out of state--these European countries prefer their own.

Now let's talk about medical mission trips. These countries and organizations who sponsor these trips are so desparate for physicians and medical care. I've never heard of an American DO being turned down for one of these trips to a needy country. Bottom line, if you want to leave this country and set up a life somewhere else, it would make your life easier to be an MD. If you want to have the option of doing mission trips.. do not worry about the letters after your name...

Sorry for the rant, i'm just tired of everyone claiming they are going to be practicing in a foreign country when in actuality the amount of people who do this is miniscule. This was not an attack on the OP, I believe your desire is genuine, but let's be honest, when it comes to this topic usually, most people are just all talk, and it is one of the weakest claims people make against osteopathic medicine in America.

 

[coreyw]

qualifiers: I don't have a MB BS or a BAppSc (osteo) but here goes:

i honestly can't see how - beyond the usual hurdles you'd have to jump over if you're foreign trained - an American DO couldn't practice as a physician or surgeon in the UK, Australia or New Zealand... but mate, those hurdles... sheesh!

Here's the clincher: You have to be bloody bold and brush up on your lobbying skills. Don't leave your ambitions at the bureaucratic barriers... telephone people and talk to them directly.

I actually think you'd have much more trouble setting up practice as an osteopath!!!

Australian osteopaths do three to ten times the training hours in manual medicine! They're specialists in the field. Most of my osteopathic friends have advised me against studying osteopathic medicine in the US... if I'm keen on OMM! (and I am, but can't afford to study there at any rate )

So, unless you specialise in OMM/neuromusculoskeletal medicine the Australian Osteopathic Association (and the law in most Australian states) won't recognise you as an osteopath... or, at least, they'll take some convincing.

As a professional lobbyist (environmental), it's my job and inclination to work harder when somebody tells me something can't or shan't be done.

I know, I know... I sound like a broken down record...

 

[STAC]

What if you have specialty training in something specific like cardiology, emergency medicine or opthalmology and you never use OMM as a specialist? Would it matter then?

 

[coreyw]

Originally posted by STAC
What if you have specialty training in something specific like cardiology, emergency medicine or opthalmology and you never use OMM as a specialist? Would it matter then?

it might help, especially if you're published... but you'd still have to lobby the relevant royal college i imagine... and since most Australian medicos have never heard of OMM it wouldn't matter that much...

it comes down to who you know, i reckon... so start forging those networks