TripleDegree

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Is this possible? Is anyone trying to do this? Or am I just whacko.

I think programs such as OSU's ISP make this at least a remote possibility. THink about it, the advantage to saving a year is worth at least $200K.
 
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TripleDegree

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Come on, don't be afraid, venture an opinion. I won't bite :)
 

BeanieA

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TripleDegree said:
Come on, don't be afraid, venture an opinion. I won't bite :)
My PI here at OSU went to med school here, and did the ISP track.He informed that he only knew of one person finishing 6 months early, but that was only b.c they busted a$$ and took no time off.Right now, all the ISP I know are behind, or right on track....So I think it can be done, but pretty rough first 2 yrs...
 

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if a person who took no time off can only finish 6 months early, then i dont think it is worth it. you would still match and start your residency the same time as everybody else; thus, there is not a significant monetary advantage. i assume you are implying that saving a year is worth the amount of money you save on a year of tuition plus the additional income in your first year out as an attending vs resident salary. i guess if you could somehow do it in 3 years the numbers would add up. however i think the added stress of trying to accomplish this would not be worth it in the long run, regardless of the money you "save."
 
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TripleDegree

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captbadass said:
if a person who took no time off can only finish 6 months early, then i dont think it is worth it. you would still match and start your residency the same time as everybody else; thus, there is not a significant monetary advantage. i assume you are implying that saving a year is worth the amount of money you save on a year of tuition plus the additional income in your first year out as an attending vs resident salary. i guess if you could somehow do it in 3 years the numbers would add up. however i think the added stress of trying to accomplish this would not be worth it in the long run, regardless of the money you "save."

I don't think there is any way you could compress the clinical years, but is there a way to finish up both Ms1 and MS2 in 1 year? I know that this is not the norm, but I guess the question is more around is this theoretcially possible and do you know anyone who has done it? So you would gain a whole year, and be able to participate in the match 1 year ahead of schedule.

Let me explain my motivation for doing this - being a non-trad, its in my own best interest to save as much time as possible, and get my MD diploma as soon as I possibly can.

If the general consensus is No, it cannot be done, then I'm fine with that. Just let me know if thats possible.
 

salsadoc44

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i go to OSU and have had many friends in ISP. it's not worth it. seriously, do you think you can cram 2 years of information into 1 year and actually retain the information to put to good use? ask anyone in ISP now and they'll tell you it's not in your best interest in the long run by any stretch of the imagination. i know the school will not advocate for it, but will allow you to do so at your own risk, meaning if you fail Step 1, don't go blaming the system. the girl i know who tried to do it a few years back was not a non-trad student. even she didn't finish in a year.
 
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TripleDegree

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salsadoc44 said:
i go to OSU and have had many friends in ISP. it's not worth it. seriously, do you think you can cram 2 years of information into 1 year and actually retain the information to put to good use? ask anyone in ISP now and they'll tell you it's not in your best interest in the long run by any stretch of the imagination. i know the school will not advocate for it, but will allow you to do so at your own risk, meaning if you fail Step 1, don't go blaming the system. the girl i know who tried to do it a few years back was not a non-trad student. even she didn't finish in a year.
Is there any way you could put me in touch with her? I'm really seriously considering this option - and if there's a way to do it, I want to try it.

Thanks
 

fun8stuff

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it's just one year.... not that big in the scheme of things. Not worth it, imho. I know I'm not looking to make myself anymore disadvantaged.
 

salsadoc44

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TripleDegree said:
Is there any way you could put me in touch with her? I'm really seriously considering this option - and if there's a way to do it, I want to try it.

Thanks
i think she graduated last year. sorry. you may want to call the school and see if they can find students in your situation and have them contact you.
 

erin682

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There is such an incredible amount of information thrown at you in the first 2 years as it is. You really just have no idea until you get there. I couldn't imagine trying to cram it all into one year. You would just be miserable.
 

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I got this information from my neighbor, his brother-in-law finished his school in 3 yrs at OSU and he got into a good residency program. Before entering the med school, this guy was a veterinarian. Apart from this I don't know many details.
 

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You could compress third and fourth year into one year in theory but that would require a level of efficiency and coordination on the part of the clinical faculty which is probably impossible to achieve, first because they are too busy to devote the time and second because patients are unpredictable and cannot be counted on to provide you with your training in a "just in time" manner.

I mean, there is a lot of standing around with one's external sphincter providing a cozy for one's thumb. What is rounding, for example, but a highly structured way to waste an afternoon? Additionally, on many rotations all you will be is a glorified clerk. You will glean your medical knowledge in an accidental, haphazard way.

Don't flame me and tell me that your school doesn't have any unproductive time in third and fourth year.

The key is to carry a little pocket book with you, say the Scutmonkey's Clinicians Pocket Reference (absolutly fantastic book) so you always have something to read during down time.

And, to be honest, not all of my fourth year rotations have been equally useful. While I did a Trauma Surgery month early as well as two Emergency Medicine months, other than a solid community Internal Medicine month I have been slacking off like a big dog since October. I did a community Pediatrics rotations where I probably only went in five times for a few hours in the entire month. I also did a month of "self-study" cross-sectional anatomy and pharmacology as an excuse to study for Step 2.

My MICU rotation last month was good but since I really only did it to learn how to intubate, put in central lines, and to learn about ventilators, I probably could have learned as much in one week if it had been packed with activity. Most of what I learned about critical care I learned from reading my critical care book during the many, many hours when nothing was going on.

I am doing a Cardiology month right now which makes me feel like a third year again as I am usually here until five. No fair!

Then I have a month of vacation and finish with a total, absolute, Mickey Mouse outpatient psychiatry rotation where I will have to do about six shifts in the entire month. I guess I could have picked a harder rotation to finish on but I am tired of medical school and just want to finish with as little expenditure of energy as possible.

Bottom line. If the long Christmas and summer vacations were eliminated, if the faculty recognized that most fourth years essentially blow off half of fourth year, and if the clinical curriculum was tightened up a bit you could easily compress medical school to three years.

With that being said, why would you want to? I'm not in that big a hurry. Medical school is actually kind of fun once you get past first year.
 

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I agree with Panda...WHY would you want to finish in three crammed years?? (i realize the money issue, but hey, we're talking ONE year?). Fourth year ROCKS--i have had three months off (great for vacations on the old school loans) and a few blow-off rotations. I realize residency is going to be very intense and challenging and have enjoyed the R & R fourth year provides. I think it would be difficult to start residency right after working your a$$ off for three years in med school....besides, some fourth year rotations are very interesting and allow you to see areas of medicine you will never be exposed to again. Just my 0.02--but trust me, by the end of third year you will be looking forward to the bliss called fourth year. Not to mention, the residency application process takes six months the way it is now (start ERAs in sept., interview in nov/dec/jan, submit list in feb, match in march). That would be tough to do (if not impossible) during your third year. Anyway, good luck to y'all.
 
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TripleDegree

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Panda Bear said:
You could compress third and fourth year into one year in theory but that would require a level of efficiency and coordination on the part of the clinical faculty which is probably impossible to achieve, first because they are too busy to devote the time and second because patients are unpredictable and cannot be counted on to provide you with your training in a "just in time" manner.

I mean, there is a lot of standing around with one's external sphincter providing a cozy for one's thumb. What is rounding, for example, but a highly structured way to waste an afternoon? Additionally, on many rotations all you will be is a glorified clerk. You will glean your medical knowledge in an accidental, haphazard way.

Don't flame me and tell me that your school doesn't have any unproductive time in third and fourth year.

The key is to carry a little pocket book with you, say the Scutmonkey's Clinicians Pocket Reference (absolutly fantastic book) so you always have something to read during down time.

And, to be honest, not all of my fourth year rotations have been equally useful. While I did a Trauma Surgery month early as well as two Emergency Medicine months, other than a solid community Internal Medicine month I have been slacking off like a big dog since October. I did a community Pediatrics rotations where I probably only went in five times for a few hours in the entire month. I also did a month of "self-study" cross-sectional anatomy and pharmacology as an excuse to study for Step 2.

My MICU rotation last month was good but since I really only did it to learn how to intubate, put in central lines, and to learn about ventilators, I probably could have learned as much in one week if it had been packed with activity. Most of what I learned about critical care I learned from reading my critical care book during the many, many hours when nothing was going on.

I am doing a Cardiology month right now which makes me feel like a third year again as I am usually here until five. No fair!

Then I have a month of vacation and finish with a total, absolute, Mickey Mouse outpatient psychiatry rotation where I will have to do about six shifts in the entire month. I guess I could have picked a harder rotation to finish on but I am tired of medical school and just want to finish with as little expenditure of energy as possible.

Bottom line. If the long Christmas and summer vacations were eliminated, if the faculty recognized that most fourth years essentially blow off half of fourth year, and if the clinical curriculum was tightened up a bit you could easily compress medical school to three years.

With that being said, why would you want to? I'm not in that big a hurry. Medical school is actually kind of fun once you get past first year.

Thanks Panda - however I was not considering compressing ms3 and ms4, but instead ms1 and ms2. I want to enjoy MS4 too!

Seriously, to those of us who are chronologically challenged, even a year makes a big difference. Hard to explain to you kids :)
 

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TripleDegree said:
Thanks Panda - however I was not considering compressing ms3 and ms4, but instead ms1 and ms2. I want to enjoy MS4 too!

Seriously, to those of us who are chronologically challenged, even a year makes a big difference. Hard to explain to you kids :)

I hear you.

Sincerely,

P. Bear
Age 41
 

xaelia

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I'm pretty sure it's impossible to finish the Med 1 and Med 2 curriculum in one year at OSU via the ISP pathway because there are two-year components such as Patient-Centered Medicine and Physician Development that cannot be "sped-up" along with your basic sciences. Rushing through the ISP curriculum will just give you more vacation time/research time before 3rd year.
 

bridge2006

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I don't know about the program you are talking about. However, I go to a three year medical school in Canada (University of Calgary; McMaster University is also three years). We are just finishing up our second year and starting clerkship on March 14. We go full speed for 13 months (with two weeks off at Christmas), start preparing for matching this October, match next March, and finish clerkship in May 2006. We are ranked by program directors as being better prepared than students form other schools. And our students match to very competitive specialties - three third year students out of a class of 100 just matched to Ophtho (only 19 spots in Canada and more than 1600 MDs graduating).

All this to say, medical school can definitely be compressed to three years with students being just as well prepared for residency. But you better already know what you want to do, because time to ponder career choices is in short supply.
 
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TripleDegree

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TripleDegree

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xaelia said:
I'm pretty sure it's impossible to finish the Med 1 and Med 2 curriculum in one year at OSU via the ISP pathway because there are two-year components such as Patient-Centered Medicine and Physician Development that cannot be "sped-up" along with your basic sciences. Rushing through the ISP curriculum will just give you more vacation time/research time before 3rd year.
Thanks to everyone, and especially xaelia - i think my question is answered now. In about 4 years, I'll be asking folks how to finish up rads in 3 years ;) j/k

ciao
 

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I read an article awhile back about a student that did finish ISP in a year. I cant seem to find it off hand but will keep looking. As I recall he also managed OSU's all time highest step one score.

Damn thing has to be on osu's site somewhere...