SSdoc33

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The purpose of a life is not to seek the "brass ring" that is retirement.

Work serves a purpose in life and gives one stability, a steady "diversion", and a sense of purpose.

I could have retired years ago, but choose to work, despite cancer X2. Just take trips along the way and enjoy your life (and your work). I also cannot really get health insurance outside of a large group.

I do not envy that guy at all. I had a former partner who faked Parkinson's at age 40 (yes, age 40). He found some foreign neurologist who substantiated his claim (he had the wrong fake movements- more choreo-athetoid) and he immediately quit and received $400K per year (tax free) for his "disability". The guy was (and is) a sociopath who gamed the system. Is that an admirable goal?

I, on the other hand, was refused even short term disability for chemo for two different cancers, and thus worked all the while receiving treatment. Work helped take my mind off of things, rather than sitting at home and moping.

Work is not such a bad thing.
your purpose may be different that others' purpose.

some people work to live, others live to work.

im somewhere in the middle. i like my work. i dont LOVE it. id honestly rather be traveling, working out, gardening, reading. i would ideally be working 20-30 hours/week. maybe another 10 years of nose to the grindstone.....
 

Doctodd

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The purpose of a life is not to seek the "brass ring" that is retirement.

Work serves a purpose in life and gives one stability, a steady "diversion", and a sense of purpose.

I could have retired years ago, but choose to work, despite cancer X2. Just take trips along the way and enjoy your life (and your work). I also cannot really get health insurance outside of a large group.

I do not envy that guy at all. I had a former partner who faked Parkinson's at age 40 (yes, age 40). He found some foreign neurologist who substantiated his claim (he had the wrong fake movements- more choreo-athetoid) and he immediately quit and received $400K per year (tax free) for his "disability". The guy was (and is) a sociopath who gamed the system. Is that an admirable goal?

I, on the other hand, was refused even short term disability for chemo for two different cancers, and thus worked all the while receiving treatment. Work helped take my mind off of things, rather than sitting at home and moping.

Work is not such a bad thing.
you described half the world....probably more than half. Money equals freedom. But many dont have any moral compass and will game the system. Sounds like that guy gamed the system to another level.
 
Jun 25, 2019
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your purpose may be different that others' purpose.

some people work to live, others live to work.

im somewhere in the middle. i like my work. i dont LOVE it. id honestly rather be traveling, working out, gardening, reading. i would ideally be working 20-30 hours/week. maybe another 10 years of nose to the grindstone.....

Yep- different strokes. I have A LOT of hobbies, but think I would get into mischief if I was retired. I golf, shoot guns, work on my farm, hike, work on my old cars, plant trees, tend to bees, build stone structures, make furniture ....................ect..................ect..................

When I retire, I plan on making moonshine (which is legal, as long as you don't sell it and use it for fuel) as an additional hobby, and want to build a WW1 era biplane to fly from my farm. The weird thing is that I am a "teetotaler", so I will have to find Guinea Pigs to test it on after chemical analysis. So chances are I will probably win a Darwin award and die off early from stupidity....................... but it will be fun. The problem is that I have already reproduced, so I will not have been eliminated from the gene pool.
 
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ateria radicularis magna

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Apr 6, 2016
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The purpose of a life is not to seek the "brass ring" that is retirement.

Work serves a purpose in life and gives one stability, a steady "diversion", and a sense of purpose.

I could have retired years ago, but choose to work, despite cancer X2. Just take trips along the way and enjoy your life (and your work). I also cannot really get health insurance outside of a large group.

I do not envy that guy at all. I had a former partner who faked Parkinson's at age 40 (yes, age 40). He found some foreign neurologist who substantiated his claim (he had the wrong fake movements- more choreo-athetoid) and he immediately quit and received $400K per year (tax free) for his "disability". The guy was (and is) a sociopath who gamed the system. Is that an admirable goal?

I, on the other hand, was refused even short term disability for chemo for two different cancers, and thus worked all the while receiving treatment. Work helped take my mind off of things, rather than sitting at home and moping.

Work is not such a bad thing.
Retiring at 43 after saving a lot of income and gaming the disability system are not the same thing. What is the point of comparing them ?
 

Ducttape

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it really depends on what you want out of life, eh?

some people are content to eat granola every day. others want their Waygu steaks.
 
Jun 25, 2019
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Retiring at 43 after saving a lot of income and gaming the disability system are not the same thing. What is the point of comparing them ?
Both seek retirement as a goal, not an artifact of completing a career and moving along to something else after "serving your time". There was a large amount of cash spent by the government supporting your training, and thus I think we should try to maximize that return.

If the goal of a doc was to retire early, why did they go into medicine at all? It is a service industry and they knew what they signed up for.
 

DODOCSS

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Both seek retirement as a goal, not an artifact of completing a career and moving along to something else after "serving your time". There was a large amount of cash spent by the government supporting your training, and thus I think we should try to maximize that return.

If the goal of a doc was to retire early, why did they go into medicine at all? It is a service industry and they knew what they signed up for.
with all do respect. perspective is relative when one has 5M banked
 
Aug 25, 2019
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The purpose of a life is not to seek the "brass ring" that is retirement.

Work serves a purpose in life and gives one stability, a steady "diversion", and a sense of purpose.

I could have retired years ago, but choose to work, despite cancer X2. Just take trips along the way and enjoy your life (and your work). I also cannot really get health insurance outside of a large group.

I do not envy that guy at all. I had a former partner who faked Parkinson's at age 40 (yes, age 40). He found some foreign neurologist who substantiated his claim (he had the wrong fake movements- more choreo-athetoid) and he immediately quit and received $400K per year (tax free) for his "disability". The guy was (and is) a sociopath who gamed the system. Is that an admirable goal?

I, on the other hand, was refused even short term disability for chemo for two different cancers, and thus worked all the while receiving treatment. Work helped take my mind off of things, rather than sitting at home and moping.

Work is not such a bad thing.
Man, 400k! I maxed out my disability and the most anyone would give me is 17k/mo.

Disclaimer, I’m not collecting that’s just what my policy is
 
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And back to the original article, I don’t know about you guys, but I didn’t work this hard to live in a 90k house the rest of my life.

What’s the # most of you guys wanna reach for retirement?
 

SSdoc33

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Apr 23, 2007
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And back to the original article, I don’t know about you guys, but I didn’t work this hard to live in a 90k house the rest of my life.

What’s the # most of you guys wanna reach for retirement?
10

But I have 3 kids and live in costly area. My 'retire at 50' plan doesn't seem to be materializing....
 
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Jul 30, 2018
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The purpose of a life is not to seek the "brass ring" that is retirement.

Work serves a purpose in life and gives one stability, a steady "diversion", and a sense of purpose.

I could have retired years ago, but choose to work, despite cancer X2. Just take trips along the way and enjoy your life (and your work). I also cannot really get health insurance outside of a large group.

I do not envy that guy at all. I had a former partner who faked Parkinson's at age 40 (yes, age 40). He found some foreign neurologist who substantiated his claim (he had the wrong fake movements- more choreo-athetoid) and he immediately quit and received $400K per year (tax free) for his "disability". The guy was (and is) a sociopath who gamed the system. Is that an admirable goal?

I, on the other hand, was refused even short term disability for chemo for two different cancers, and thus worked all the while receiving treatment. Work helped take my mind off of things, rather than sitting at home and moping.

Work is not such a bad thing.
Back in the day insurance sales people lived to sell to doctors. They very rarely used disability insurance and would write these crazy generous polices.

Nowadays, more docs are using it as a way of getting off the hamster wheel faking everything from back injuries to carpel tunnel and other nonsense.

Work in medicine was fulfilling and good but like everything else it slowly turns to **** and physicians start taking a hard look at the options.
 
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10

But I have 3 kids and live in costly area. My 'retire at 50' plan doesn't seem to be materializing....
How much does one need to make in order to hit this number in 10 years? My guess is you’d have to invest 300-400k/yr
 
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I agree with the FIRE concept but I have found these physician FIRE stories to be...less than inspiring. Based on my observations they people able to pull this off fall into a handful of categories

A. The high earning power couple
B. Trust fund back up
C. The successful side hussle that turns into a full time job - I’ve heard everything from owning a bar to HC consulting
 
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Back in the day insurance sales people lived to sell to doctors. They very rarely used disability insurance and would write these crazy generous polices.

Nowadays, more docs are using it as a way of getting off the hamster wheel faking everything from back injuries to carpel tunnel and other nonsense.

Work in medicine was fulfilling and good but like everything else it slowly turns to **** and physicians start taking a hard look at the options.
So is the general consensus medicine has turned into a grind?

I feel like I’ve been hammered for a decade and a half. Being an attending hasn’t made it much better
 
Jul 30, 2018
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So is the general consensus medicine has turned into a grind?

I feel like I’ve been hammered for a decade and a half. Being an attending hasn’t made it much better
Grind is an understatement. And I haven’t been out nearly as long as you.

Older guys I work with about -5-10 years from retirement. They are just hoping to have a minor disability so they can collect in the insurance and go part time coast for a while and then retire. Seriously anything that’s not outright fraud.

Most of them are ex private practice guys that left or forced to go with corporate medicine and now they just need to get the hell out in a hurry.
 
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hyperalgesia

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I agree with the FIRE concept but I have found these physician FIRE stories to be...less than inspiring. Based on my observations they people able to pull this off fall into a handful of categories

A. The high earning power couple
B. Trust fund back up
C. The successful side hussle that turns into a full time job - I’ve heard everything from owning a bar to HC consulting
The most common thing I see is: "I retired early and you can too if you follow my blog! And please click on the adds so I can eat tonight."
 
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Grind is an understatement. And I haven’t been out nearly as long as you.

Older guys I work with about -5-10 years from retirement. They are just hoping to have a minor disability so they can collect in the insurance and go part time coast for a while and then retire. Seriously anything that’s not outright fraud.

Most of them are ex private practice guys that left or forced to go with corporate medicine and now they just need to get the hell out in a hurry.
I’ve been out two years, was referring to undergrad/Med school/residency
 
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drusso

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Grind is an understatement. And I haven’t been out nearly as long as you.

Older guys I work with about -5-10 years from retirement. They are just hoping to have a minor disability so they can collect in the insurance and go part time coast for a while and then retire. Seriously anything that’s not outright fraud.

Most of them are ex private practice guys that left or forced to go with corporate medicine and now they just need to get the hell out in a hurry.
Pain Medicine was the dream of the 1990s. It was going to be like Interventional Cardiology, Interventional Radiology, or minimally invasive neurosurgery. We were going to have all kinds of cool tools: IDET, Kypho, Pumps, Stim, RFA, corticosteroids, etc.

Kypho = dead
IDET = dead
Pumps = dying except for Cancer
Stim = holding on but getting commoditized.
RFA = commoditized
corticosteroids = dying/commoditized
Med management = dying/thankless/commoditized.

By the time I showed up on the scene in the early '00's the party was already overr. The "first-wavers" (names we would all know and recognize) were literally cashing out their millions. There were some scraps floating around but the wave already crested and crashed.

Pain doctors did it to ourselves. We didn't organize and didn't protect our turf. The CRNA will see you for your ESI and the NP will refill your meds...
 
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hyperalgesia

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I'm at the point I could probably retire and live very modestly. I'm single and haven't made any major financial mistakes (yet). When I realized that, it gave me some perspective because now the question is what will I do for personal satisfaction? I think it's not so much about setting a target date for retirement but instead the quest to find something more meaningful and satisfying.

I guess at some point I will feel like I've contributed enough and just be okay with personal hobbies but not there yet for sure.
 
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ateria radicularis magna

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I could easily retire when I have 1.5 million saved. The things I love doing are travel, hiking, snorkeling, outdoor stuff, which require very little money in Many cases (but does require good health, which trends down pretty quickly ya know?)
 
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with all do respect. perspective is relative when one has 5M banked
I guess that may be correct. When you have significant resources, it most likely changes one's perspective.

However, as I stated before, I am in a "twilight zone", such that I don't think I'll ever be able to quit, simply due to healthcare reasons. I just had a scope on Friday and am told I need another biopsy- I go through this "roulette" every three months. Regardless of how much money I have, I need to stay employed to get good healthcare, which I will need for the rest of my life.

I found that nearly all the things I worried about when I was younger never came to fruition, while the things I never envisioned did. I doubt very much that anyone on this forum will be eating cat food as a senior and most will be able to retire comfortably (sans any serious health issues).
 
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tmvguy03

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I guess that may be correct. When you have significant resources, it most likely changes one's perspective.

However, as I stated before, I am in a "twilight zone", such that I don't think I'll ever be able to quit, simply due to healthcare reasons. I just had a scope on Friday and am told I need another biopsy- I go through this "roulette" every three months. Regardless of how much money I have, I need to stay employed to get good healthcare, which I will need for the rest of my life.

I found that nearly all the things I worried about when I was younger never came to fruition, while the things I never envisioned did. I doubt very much that anyone on this forum will be eating cat food as a senior and most will be able to retire comfortably (sans any serious health issues).
I'm really sorry you're in this situation, that's got to be frustrating and scary. You've maintained a positive outlook though and offer good advice to the younger folks on the forum.
 
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Man, 400k! I maxed out my disability and the most anyone would give me is 17k/mo.

Disclaimer, I’m not collecting that’s just what my policy is

Those were the old policies written in the 80s before the insurers got wise. Another partner (pain guy) cranked his income up to $2 million per year by doing way, way too many rfs, then showed up to work smashed several times in a row, said he was an alcoholic and dangerous to work, and got over $1 million per year (tax free) from disability. Them was the days. The irony of that one is that the guy then actually started really drinking and using drugs, as he didn't have anything to do, and ended up blowing is head off in his garage eight years later. Northwestern Mutual was the company and they came by to residents and shopped those policies all over the place.

I had the same disability policy and got rid of it, as I thought it was just for scammers (that's all I saw actually use it). The irony was that I came to actually need it at a later date for pretty severe legitimate medical reasons, but had bailed on the policy. I continued to work through one year and a later eight month period of chemo- that was rough. I guess I would not have used it anyway, as I have more pride than that. I would feel ashamed to be on disability. Gotta get up, and go to work and be a good role model for your kids.
 
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Alcoholism is a crazy thing. One could be pretty damn happy with 1M/year cash and nothing to do
 

Merely

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Why do more people not fake disability then retire and get free money forever?
 

clubdeac

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I enjoy what I do and could do it for another 10 years; however I would love what I do if I wasn’t rushed in clinic (could see 15-16 pts per day instead of 20-25) and didn’t have the damn EHR to deal with. The EHR is directly related to my degree of feeling rushed and my subsequent dissatisfaction with work
 
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hyperalgesia

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I enjoy what I do and could do it for another 10 years; however I would love what I do if I wasn’t rushed in clinic (could see 15-16 pts per day instead of 20-25) and didn’t have the damn EHR to deal with. The EHR is directly related to my degree of feeling rushed and my subsequent dissatisfaction with work
Totally agree. I'm perfectly happy flying at cruising speed. Not so happy with afterburners on all day...
 
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Apr 13, 2016
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I enjoy what I do and could do it for another 10 years; however I would love what I do if I wasn’t rushed in clinic (could see 15-16 pts per day instead of 20-25) and didn’t have the damn EHR to deal with. The EHR is directly related to my degree of feeling rushed and my subsequent dissatisfaction with work
Hire a scribe to do the clicking for you. Major difference in my quality of life and she’s only been with me a few months. After a year or so I’ve heard they basically are reading your mind and ordering what you want before you say it.
 

geauxg8rs

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Hire a scribe to do the clicking for you. Major difference in my quality of life and she’s only been with me a few months. After a year or so I’ve heard they basically are reading your mind and ordering what you want before you say it.
So pretty soon scribes will be wanting expansion to include doing unsupervised cervical stim trials and cordotomy, etc
 

Ligament

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Hire a scribe to do the clicking for you. Major difference in my quality of life and she’s only been with me a few months. After a year or so I’ve heard they basically are reading your mind and ordering what you want before you say it.
Best QOL thing I ever did for my clinic was hiring a scribe. On my third one now after about 6 years. They have all been great and they enjoy their work too. Down side is they leave for med school or other things eventually. Haveing a third person in the room also helps to calm down the nutty patients and keep the room dynamics under control; they are used to trying to manipulate their doctor, not their doctor plus another stranger in the room. Throws them off guard. Conversely, some non crazy patients feel reassured with a scribe in the room. Win win. My scribes can do differential diagnosis of most pain issues when they finish their tour with me.

My scribes have been very good people and working with them has been a joy and enriched my life.
 
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Jun 25, 2019
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Grind is an understatement. And I haven’t been out nearly as long as you.

Older guys I work with about -5-10 years from retirement. They are just hoping to have a minor disability so they can collect in the insurance and go part time coast for a while and then retire. Seriously anything that’s not outright fraud.

Most of them are ex private practice guys that left or forced to go with corporate medicine and now they just need to get the hell out in a hurry.

Wow- I kind of like going to work every day and don't think of it as a "grind" at all. I have a fairly major "disability" for which I could collect on the insurance and get out of medicine. However, I have more pride than that and would never go on medicare for health insurance (you go to the end of the line for treatment).

We have a pretty cool job when you can learn something new every day. I find the work-ups to be the most fun, as there are a lot of weird things (other than structural matters) that can result in pain.

Too bad I don't work with those guys- I could spice up their practice and make it more fun. It's a bummer if staff guys have that attitude, as it probably would not be very encouraging to the residents and fellows. I usually try to find the positive in most things- and usually do.
 
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Jun 25, 2019
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I enjoy what I do and could do it for another 10 years; however I would love what I do if I wasn’t rushed in clinic (could see 15-16 pts per day instead of 20-25) and didn’t have the damn EHR to deal with. The EHR is directly related to my degree of feeling rushed and my subsequent dissatisfaction with work

If you saw 15-16 patients per day for very long, you would get bored and start looking for a paper route to keep you busy.

When you are busy, time flies by. You look up at the clock and it is 4 pm before you know it.
 
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