First post, thinking of med school

[helpertcell]

This is my first post ever on this forum! I'd like to hear thoughts/advice or whatever from you!

Here is my story, I'm currently doing a Ph.D. program in biomedical science at a well-known university with a top med school. I'm an international student but I did half of my undergrad in US at a top university. Having interest in science and didn't know what else I wanted to do, I went to grad school right after college. Ph.D. years have had many ups and downs and my advisor is facing huge financial difficulties and this may result in me having to leave the lab after spending past 4 years on my Ph.D... and the current situation forced me to think about my future. It's likely that I may have to quite my Ph.D. since I don't feel strongly about starting in another lab and work for 3-4 more years to get my Ph.D., especially knowing research is not something I want to do for a career.

Medicine became something I'm getting more interest now as I'm a genuinely good person with high integrity and care for people and back in high school, many friends encouraged me to apply for med school, thinking I could be a great doctor. I love science and listening to research seminars excited me a lot (although I'm not excelling at the actual day-to-day of research work). I'm also pretty good at people skills. These are some characters that make me believe I could be a good doctor.

I got some experience in shadowing a few doctors and I'm somewhat starting to get interested in a career in medicine. This may sound naive to many of you who started very early and put so much effort into getting in to med school.

I'm planning to shadow a few more doctors and starting to work as a volunteer in local hospitals soon to test my interest in medicine. In the mean time, I'd like to get a sense of the chances of getting in to med school with my background.

My GPA was 3.7ish in my home country university and was 3.5ish in US university, in biology. My graduate GPA was lower, only at 3.4ish.. I haven't tried MCAT at all but I think I'll be OK at physical science and biology, verbal reasoning might be challenging for me as English is not my native language.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on my chances for med school. Since I'm an international student, I know I wouldn't be able to apply for many state universities. Also, if you think I'm a complete fool who thinks of medicine when Ph.D. isn't working out, I wouldn't mind your criticism if it's constructive.

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[Runican]

First things first, it's quite unrealistic that you will be able to gather everything you need and apply during this upcoming cycle (matriculation in 2014), so you're looking at starting medical school in 2015 at the earliest. That means you won't graduate from medical school until 2019. I say this because you seem to be turned off spending 3-4 more years to get a PhD, but I just wanted to make sure you understand that an MD is going to probably take more time and significantly more money than finishing your PhD.

That being said, I would see what happens with your PhD funding, while also exploring medicine. Do some clinical volunteering, spend some more time shadowing, and read a bit about being a doctor and the application process. This upcoming summer, make a decision - is this what you want to do? If so, I think you have two options. 1) If the funding for your PhD is still going strong and you think you can finish by 2015 but you still want to be a doctor, then finish your PhD and apply to medical school. 2) If the funding has stopped, try talking to people in charge of the program and see if you can drop out but still get an MS. Most stop schools do not allow PhD candidates to drop down to an MS unless there are extenuating circumstances, but I think losing 3-4 years of research counts.

Regarding your international status, you should try your hardest to get a green card. This might be hard depending on what country you are from but you should do some research on your options. If you are from a country where getting a green card takes a long time and you haven't yet applied, your best bet is probably to pray that the federal government can pass this upcoming immigration bill and you can get a green card. It's not that you won't get into any school as an international student, but your chances at many mid/low-tier MD schools (which your stats seem in line for) are greatly diminished if you are an international student.

Finally, if you do decide to apply, you need to do some research on whether your prerequisite courses are too old to be accepted. Most schools recommend that courses not be much older than 5 years old and require <10 years. Just something to think about.

 

[helpertcell]

Thank you so much for your quick response!

First things first, it's quite unrealistic that you will be able to gather everything you need and apply during this upcoming cycle (matriculation in 2014), so you're looking at starting medical school in 2015 at the earliest. That means you won't graduate from medical school until 2019. I say this because you seem to be turned off spending 3-4 more years to get a PhD, but I just wanted to make sure you understand that an MD is going to probably take more time and significantly more money than finishing your PhD.

I completely understand that the earliest matriculation time will be 2015 for me if I decide to do it. The difference between a Ph.D. and other professional degree is that there is much more uncertainty in how your project would work out.. I know people spending more than 8 years in their PhD and still can't graduate because their projects were scooped by someone or their data/experiments aren't good enough. It's not like med school or law school where you go there knowing you'll graduate in 4 or 3 years.

That being said, I would see what happens with your PhD funding, while also exploring medicine. Do some clinical volunteering, spend some more time shadowing, and read a bit about being a doctor and the application process. This upcoming summer, make a decision - is this what you want to do? If so, I think you have two options. 1) If the funding for your PhD is still going strong and you think you can finish by 2015 but you still want to be a doctor, then finish your PhD and apply to medical school. 2) If the funding has stopped, try talking to people in charge of the program and see if you can drop out but still get an MS. Most stop schools do not allow PhD candidates to drop down to an MS unless there are extenuating circumstances, but I think losing 3-4 years of research counts.

I think most people can drop out and get a MS. Once you've passed the qualifying exam, you can get a master's degree in some programs. I've done that a while ago. Previously people have dropped out with a MS in my program. It hurts though.

Regarding your international status, you should try your hardest to get a green card. This might be hard depending on what country you are from but you should do some research on your options. If you are from a country where getting a green card takes a long time and you haven't yet applied, your best bet is probably to pray that the federal government can pass this upcoming immigration bill and you can get a green card. It's not that you won't get into any school as an international student, but your chances at many mid/low-tier MD schools (which your stats seem in line for) are greatly diminished if you are an international student.

Finally, if you do decide to apply, you need to do some research on whether your prerequisite courses are too old to be accepted. Most schools recommend that courses not be much older than 5 years old and require <10 years. Just something to think about.

Unfortunately I come from a country where getting a green card taks a long long time... do I have little chance of getting into top MD schools based on my current GPA? What if I do well on MCAT and in other criteria?

Thanks again!

 

[Runican]

Thank you so much for your quick response!



I completely understand that the earliest matriculation time will be 2015 for me if I decide to do it. The difference between a Ph.D. and other professional degree is that there is much more uncertainty in how your project would work out.. I know people spending more than 8 years in their PhD and still can't graduate because their projects were scooped by someone or their data/experiments aren't good enough. It's not like med school or law school where you go there knowing you'll graduate in 4 or 3 years.



I think most people can drop out and get a MS. Once you've passed the qualifying exam, you can get a master's degree in some programs. I've done that a while ago. Previously people have dropped out with a MS in my program. It hurts though.



Unfortunately I come from a country where getting a green card taks a long long time... do I have little chance of getting into top MD schools based on my current GPA? What if I do well on MCAT and in other criteria?

Thanks again!

I definitely understand your concerns about PhD programs being much less guaranteed (time-wise) than pre-professional programs. I would still advise you to STRONGLY consider if medicine is really what you want. I'm only at the beginning stages of applying, but I know that I would not be able to get through the application process, let alone medical school and residency, without knowing that this is what I want. Studying for the MCAT 6-8 hours/day and paying $5000+ on applications, MCAT, etc. definitely makes you question whether it's worth it. So make sure you have enough motivation to keep telling yourself that it is worth it.

Anyway, assuming you find your reasons for pursuing an MD, it's really your decision as to whether you can and want to continue pursuing your PhD. If you plan on doing any research, it's definitely not a bad thing to have, but it's not necessary. I think only you can make this decision because you'll have to weigh a lot of factors including other opportunities (like jobs more related to medicine), your own happiness, and your visa status.

Regarding your chances, I would say that you shouldn't really expect to get into a top MD school, though they aren't completely out of your reach. I would highly suggest that you subscribe to the online MSAR put out by AAMC. It gives a ton of great information, but there you'll see that at most of the top 10-20 MD schools the average GPA/MCAT is 3.8/35.

 

[helpertcell]

First things first, it's quite unrealistic that you will be able to gather everything you need and apply during this upcoming cycle (matriculation in 2014), so you're looking at starting medical school in 2015 at the earliest. That means you won't graduate from medical school until 2019. I say this because you seem to be turned off spending 3-4 more years to get a PhD, but I just wanted to make sure you understand that an MD is going to probably take more time and significantly more money than finishing your PhD.

That being said, I would see what happens with your PhD funding, while also exploring medicine. Do some clinical volunteering, spend some more time shadowing, and read a bit about being a doctor and the application process. This upcoming summer, make a decision - is this what you want to do? If so, I think you have two options. 1) If the funding for your PhD is still going strong and you think you can finish by 2015 but you still want to be a doctor, then finish your PhD and apply to medical school. 2) If the funding has stopped, try talking to people in charge of the program and see if you can drop out but still get an MS. Most stop schools do not allow PhD candidates to drop down to an MS unless there are extenuating circumstances, but I think losing 3-4 years of research counts.

Regarding your international status, you should try your hardest to get a green card. This might be hard depending on what country you are from but you should do some research on your options. If you are from a country where getting a green card takes a long time and you haven't yet applied, your best bet is probably to pray that the federal government can pass this upcoming immigration bill and you can get a green card. It's not that you won't get into any school as an international student, but your chances at many mid/low-tier MD schools (which your stats seem in line for) are greatly diminished if you are an international student.

Finally, if you do decide to apply, you need to do some research on whether your prerequisite courses are too old to be accepted. Most schools recommend that courses not be much older than 5 years old and require <10 years. Just something to think about.

I definitely understand your concerns about PhD programs being much less guaranteed (time-wise) than pre-professional programs. I would still advise you to STRONGLY consider if medicine is really what you want. I'm only at the beginning stages of applying, but I know that I would not be able to get through the application process, let alone medical school and residency, without knowing that this is what I want. Studying for the MCAT 6-8 hours/day and paying $5000+ on applications, MCAT, etc. definitely makes you question whether it's worth it. So make sure you have enough motivation to keep telling yourself that it is worth it.

Anyway, assuming you find your reasons for pursuing an MD, it's really your decision as to whether you can and want to continue pursuing your PhD. If you plan on doing any research, it's definitely not a bad thing to have, but it's not necessary. I think only you can make this decision because you'll have to weigh a lot of factors including other opportunities (like jobs more related to medicine), your own happiness, and your visa status.

Regarding your chances, I would say that you shouldn't really expect to get into a top MD school, though they aren't completely out of your reach. I would highly suggest that you subscribe to the online MSAR put out by AAMC. It gives a ton of great information, but there you'll see that at most of the top 10-20 MD schools the average GPA/MCAT is 3.8/35.

I totally agree with you about the fact that medical school is a HUGE commitment and like I said, I'll need to convince myself this is really something I want to do.

I guess I was used to go to top schools.. but thanks for the straightforward advice.

Good luck on your application!

 

[Runican]

I totally agree with you about the fact that medical school is a HUGE commitment and like I said, I'll need to convince myself this is really something I want to do.

I guess I was used to go to top schools.. but thanks for the straightforward advice.

Good luck on your application!

If you do apply, just realize that basically all the the US MD programs are not easy to get into and therefore are considered prestigious in their own right. What medical school you go to is important to a degree, but your medical school accomplishments and tests scores are much more important.

Good luck in deciding.

 

[helpertcell]

What medical school you go to is important to a degree, but your medical school accomplishments and tests scores are much more important.

Good luck in deciding.

Say if you get into a mi/low tier med school, does that mean your chance of going into a top residency program/ future employment in top hospital or whatever is also greatly diminished in the future?

 

[Runican]

Say if you get into a mi/low tier med school, does that mean your chance of going into a top residency program/ future employment in top hospital or whatever is also greatly diminished in the future?

greatly diminished? probably not. It's really hard for anyone to make a prediction though because there's no general consensus of which schools are low/mid tier and which residency programs/jobs are the best. But in general, all US MD schools are looked at relatively highly and how the student does in medical school and on exams is much more important than the prestige of the school.

 

[helpertcell]

greatly diminished? probably not. It's really hard for anyone to make a prediction though because there's no general consensus of which schools are low/mid tier and which residency programs/jobs are the best. But in general, all US MD schools are looked at relatively highly and how the student does in medical school and on exams is much more important than the prestige of the school.

Yeah, that makes sense.