FMG applicant In Ortho (Yea Im one of those)

[Donmarza]

Hey everyone,

I know the general answer given to this question but I dont really know how it applies to myself
I am thinking of applying for ortho as an FMG. I know the chances are low but I was just wondering what people thought of my application based below

UK medical school graduate
Graduated with a distinction (top 10% in finals)
Im currently doing my pre-registration year at one of the most (if not the most) famous hospitals in the UK

Step 1: 257
Step 2 CK: 260

I have won a national anatomy prize back in 2017
I dont have any published research but have been involved in some low level quality improvement at a regional level

Will have letters of recommendation from the head of surgery at my hospital and the head of surgical training in london
As well as one possible LOR from a surgeon in the US

Any suggestions for how to buff up my chances?

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[NYCdude]

You need Ortho research. You need letters from Ortho faculty. You need Ortho AI's in the US.

Don't apply without these things if you don't want to waste money and prime years off your life.

Or forget these things and just apply Gen Surg.

 

[Dave1980]

Why do you want to train in the US? Is ortho unavailable to you in the UK or is the pay that much better in the US?

 

[Tenk]

Those stats are only slightly above average for an American applicant who matches to ortho. Without the aforementioned letters and a lot of networking with ortho PDs you have a near 0% chance.

 

[lagbydesign]

Reach out to @dr.ashsoni on insta. He matched gen surg from the UK and he's finishing PGY-6 in PRS at Harborview. He might be able to hook you up with someone that's done what you're trying to do.

 

[LebronManning]

Why do you want to train in the US? Is ortho unavailable to you in the UK or is the pay that much better in the US?

Several reasons why any physician would want to work in the US vs. the crappy NHS. Im sure the money potential being 10x higher is nice too.

 

[lagbydesign]

You need Ortho research. You need letters from Ortho faculty. You need Ortho AI's in the US.

Don't apply without these things if you don't want to waste money and prime years off your life.

Or forget these things and just apply Gen Surg.

Yeah, the few successful FMGs in ortho have typically done 2-5 years of research with big names in the US. You have to be a publishing machine. Even with that, there are zero guarantees.

 

[Donmarza]

Thanks for the responses.

Ill try to address most of the points

I think at this point research isnt going to happen. I've made the decision in my life that I dont love my job enough to spend years trying to publish something just so I can do one speciality over another.
Not that interested in gen surg to be honest. But I would consider radiology or anesthesiology as a backup

I can probably wrangle some LORs from orthopaedic surgeons I know in the states, whether that is enough I dunno.

And finally surgical training in the UK is uniformly pretty terrible. And working in the NHS feels third world at times. haha
Furthermore a surgeon in the UK often will need a PhD just to get a final consultant position. And thats all with a flat rate of pay for all physicians regardless of specialty

 

[differentiating]

Thanks for the responses.

Ill try to address most of the points

I think at this point research isnt going to happen. I've made the decision in my life that I dont love my job enough to spend years trying to publish something just so I can do one speciality over another.
Not that interested in gen surg to be honest. But I would consider radiology or anesthesiology as a backup

I can probably wrangle some LORs from orthopaedic surgeons I know in the states, whether that is enough I dunno.

And finally surgical training in the UK is uniformly pretty terrible. And working in the NHS feels third world at times. haha
Furthermore a surgeon in the UK often will need a PhD just to get a final consultant position. And thats all with a flat rate of pay for all physicians regardless of specialty

It's pretty much accepted that even for US MD students, you need to have research to stand a chance at matching ortho. So if that's not happening, you should probably ditch any ortho aspirations and aim for one of your backups.

 

[Donmarza]

It's pretty much accepted that even for US MD students, you need to have research to stand a chance at matching ortho. So if that's not happening, you should probably ditch any ortho aspirations and aim for one of your backups.

I didnt know that. Well I might just put in a few applications just to see what happens. But I guess Ill focus on one of my backups moreso

 

[masterchiefk57]

I didnt know that. Well I might just put in a few applications just to see what happens. But I guess Ill focus on one of my backups moreso

I would take a look at the NRMP report to see just how likely you are to get into certain specialties. It would be nice if they start recoeding information on the interview statistics as well.

 

[Donmarza]

I would take a look at the NRMP report to see just how likely you are to get into certain specialties. It would be nice if they start recoeding information on the interview statistics as well.

I have looked at these but in reality I dont know how much they mean. For example based on these statistics research doesnt seem to matter very much for matching. In most specialities the amount of research is about equal, and for IMGs unmatched ortho applicants had more research than matched

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Without Ortho research, your chances are zero. With it, only slightly higher. Do what you will with that information.

 

[Splenda88]

I didnt know that. Well I might just put in a few applications just to see what happens. But I guess Ill focus on one of my backups moreso

That is a good plan... Your backups are reasonable, but you might not get much love at top tier radiology programs but you certainly will have a great shot at both radiology and anesthesia...

 

[Splenda88]

Why do you want to train in the US? Is ortho unavailable to you in the UK or is the pay that much better in the US?

Physicians in the US are rich even with the high amount of student debt... Watch out for Bernie!

People who are coming from countries where the government finances their medical education are reaping the benefit...

 

[Bonejorno]

If you are ortho or die, your best bet is to find a research fellowship job in the US and just start pumping out research, making connections, and impressing the hell out of whatever program you decide to do your research in and hope they like you enough to match you in their program.

That or do orthopedic surgery in the UK and practice for a while and apply for that program (I have no idea what it’s called) where you do 3 one-year research years at 3 different programs and get licensed to practice here.

But after reading your reply, sounds like research is not in your future. I really doubt you will find any success without research, but I guess it doesn’t hurt much to try.

 

[sella.turcica]

Physicians in the US are rich even with the high amount of student debt... Watch out for Bernie!

People who are coming from countries where the government finances their medical education are reaping the benefit...

Rarely have I read such ignorant BS.