fmg interested in military match

[turquoiseblue]

I am an FMG. For ACGME residency, I did 10 months of surgery and 6 months of IM...8 months of nonACMGE surgery..and i am able to get licensed in some states with this combined experience. My question is, can combine this experience into PGY1 so that I qualify to get into military as an FMG?

Also, how do I sign up for the military match?

Thanks!

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[IgD]

Did you pass USMLE steps 1, 2 and 3?

You couldn't join for the match. You'd have to do a 2-3 year general medical officer utilization tour to get a look at for the match. However, that is no substitute for scholarship if you have red flags.

 

[turquoiseblue]

I passed 1 and 2,and am ECFMG certified. working on passing step 3 right now.

I heard that FMG's can enter the military match after they complete a PGY1 in a civilian setting....

 

[IgD]

I heard that FMG's can enter the military match after they complete a PGY1 in a civilian setting....

Never heard that before. Let us know how it turns out. Would really be interested to see if that is possible.

 

[turquoiseblue]

I found out the requirements on applying to the army residencies...

"Civilian physicians who are interested in applying to our
residency programs must be U.S. citizens, graduates of
an accredited (Liaison Committee for Medical Education
or American Osteopathic Association) school of medicine
in the United States or Puerto Rico, be enrolled in
or have completed a first postgraduate year in an
Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education or
AOA-accredited program, have passed Steps One through
Three of the licensure exam (passed Steps One and Two
if a student or current intern) and possess a current
unrestricted medical license (exception for students/
current interns). The graduate medical education
provision does not apply to those individuals selected for
the Army’s FYGME program".
(http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/docs/gmep.pdf)

 

[J-Rad]

I found out the requirements on applying to the army residencies...

"Civilian physicians who are interested in applying to our
residency programs must be U.S. citizens, graduates of
an accredited (Liaison Committee for Medical Education
or American Osteopathic Association) school of medicine
in the United States or Puerto Rico, be enrolled in
or have completed a first postgraduate year in an
Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education or
AOA-accredited program, have passed Steps One through
Three of the licensure exam (passed Steps One and Two
if a student or current intern) and possess a current
unrestricted medical license (exception for students/
current interns). The graduate medical education
provision does not apply to those individuals selected for
the Army's FYGME program".
(http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/docs/gmep.pdf)

You are/have done neither. Multiple failures (and one withdrawal from a headed-toward-failure-anyway residency) from multiple residencies does not a completed residency make, no matter how many months it's taken you to fail to complete an internship. Please don't make milmed the dumping ground for a residency reject; it has enough problems of its own.

For the other posters, remember this gem: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=589567 ? OP brought flashbacks.

 

[turquoiseblue]

You are/have done neither. Multiple failures (and one withdrawal from a headed-toward-failure-anyway residency) from multiple residencies does not a completed residency make, no matter how many months it's taken you to fail to complete an internship. Please don't make milmed the dumping ground for a residency reject; it has enough problems of its own.

For the other posters, remember this gem: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=589567 ? OP brought flashbacks.

i didn't fail anything..just got scared and left one and got ill in the other...i have credits for everything..i can get licensed...so i asked them about it if i would somehow qualify....

 

[glamqueen]

You are/have done neither. Multiple failures (and one withdrawal from a headed-toward-failure-anyway residency) from multiple residencies does not a completed residency make, no matter how many months it's taken you to fail to complete an internship. Please don't make milmed the dumping ground for a residency reject; it has enough problems of its own.

For the other posters, remember this gem: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=589567 ? OP brought flashbacks.

Agreed. Our men and women deserve the best - not those who couldn't get a civilian residency coming here as a last resort. I'm also not sure that the hierarchy system in the military would agree with you. Many times non-physician personnel will outrank you administratively and this requires some skill in people skills to deal with them and how the military works. Haven't completely experienced this yet, but I am familiar with the system from hearing others' experiences. Nevertheless, it is a very different world than civilian residency and medicine in general. I'm not sure it would be a good fit for you based on your other postings with problems in residency with various personalities etc. The military definitely has strong personalities, and it is a different kind of work environment than the civilian world. You can't just quit, but those in power can do some unpleasant things to you if you mess up.

Despite your poor attitude and strange grammatical errors in spelling and phrasing in your other posts - I do hope life works out for you in such a way that you find some peace, because I can bet you would be a much less hostile person if you were happy. However, I do doubt that the military is the solution for your problems.

 

[notdeadyet]

I do hope life works out for you in such a way that you find some peace, because I can bet you would be a much less hostile person if you were happy.

Where are you getting the hostility from? Re-read all of his posts here and I'm not seeing it.

 

[J-Rad]

Read in Gen Res; she/he has quite the history over there.

 

[glamqueen]

Read in Gen Res; she/he has quite the history over there.

This. And same with the strange grammar comment I made - they go hand in hand and are based more on the past postings/stories from this poster. This poster doesn't like me much, but I don't take it personally and never really did. I honestly hope they find peace, but I sincerely don't think they would find it in the military. Just based on the problems they had with me even alone - I don't think they would even make it through Army training - nor AF training, which is what I went through. Seems a personality disagreement would occur.

 

[notdeadyet]

Read in Gen Res; she/he has quite the history over there.

Ah, gotcha. I don't read that forum, so the OP is a new one to me.

I just get a little uncomfortable when folks seem fine attacking anyone internationally trained as "inferior". I find it particularly ironic in milmed, in which so many folks are osteopaths, who have had a long rough road overcoming the reputation as "inferior" themselves over the past several decades. I just think IMG's sometimes get an unnecessarily rough reception. This person may have earned it (quitting internship has to be a red flag), but the anti-FMG/IMG thing around here is pretty rampant.

 

[glamqueen]

notdeadyet - I definitely understand where you are coming from and without seeing the other posts in Gen Res - where you could get that vibe here for sure also esp with the other anti-fmg mentalities you have seen. Trust me - search for the strings. This situation is pretty separate from that bias based on the backstory itself. And personally, although I do believe the U.S. should favor U.S. citizens in our medical education system (which is probably another debate for another string), I also believe that the FMGs who earn great scores, do well etc. also deserve respect too as they are a competent physicians etc.

But search for the posts (if you are curious) - you will see this is more on the side of just someone who is a red flag for our military programs aside from the FMG vs. US grad issue.

 

[notdeadyet]

Trust me - search for the strings. This situation is pretty separate from that bias based on the backstory itself.

Fair enough. I didn't realize he had a history on other forums. Good to know.

And personally, although I do believe the U.S. should favor U.S. citizens in our medical education system (which is probably another debate for another string), I also believe that the FMGs who earn great scores, do well etc. also deserve respect too as they are a competent physicians etc.

Yeah, if memory serves FMG's were out-and-out not allowed in milmed until recent years when they just haven't been able to fill the slots they needed to.

And I'm with you on the FMG thing as well. Doing a program in Bermuda because you barely scraped through college here is one thing. Turning your nose up at an Indian MD from India is racist or xenophobic, depending on your charity.

 

[J-Rad]

I have no bias against FMGs. The smartest physician I have ever met went to medical school in India. I've worked with fantastic Carib grads, though I think one would be deluded to think that going Carib isn't a potentially costly gamble, esp. these days. I think an FMG or Carib grad who has put in their time and gotten through a US internship should be welcome to apply to milmed residencies. If an American grad and FMG/Carib are hard to choose between, then the edge should go to the AMG. But if the latter is clearly the better candidate for a residency, so be it. But the OP most definitely does not fit this. Having some familiarity with the posts in Gen Res, no matter how she spins it, TB never completed an American internship. Doing more than 12 months of internship doesn't buy extra credit.

 

[former military]

as a civilian now, I work with some FMGs mainly anesthesia providers but also some fellow surgeons, medicine people and hospitalists. Like US educated physicians, they can be fantastic or suck.

I will say from 11 years in military medicine it is a rough go if you have anger issues, prickly personality, or are easily frustrated. The military will be a bad fit for you. To flourish, and even survive in military medicine you need to have some built in effexor and valium to your personality to go with the flow, not pull your hair out, accept the mediocre and suboptimal, and enjoy your job.

An Air Force plastic surgeon summed up military medicine so eloquently,
"if you push... they will always push back".
If you enjoy being called major rather than doctor and answer your phone that way... the military is right for you.
If not, you will be in frustration, survival mode counting your days.

 

[bustbones26]

Ah, gotcha. I don't read that forum, so the OP is a new one to me.

I just get a little uncomfortable when folks seem fine attacking anyone internationally trained as "inferior". I find it particularly ironic in milmed, in which so many folks are osteopaths, who have had a long rough road overcoming the reputation as "inferior" themselves over the past several decades. I just think IMG's sometimes get an unnecessarily rough reception. This person may have earned it (quitting internship has to be a red flag), but the anti-FMG/IMG thing around here is pretty rampant.

Its not about being anti-FMG. Ask any PD you know how many times a year he/she receives a phone call from some FMG asking if the military takes FMGs? FMGs have to learn that the military will not always be a low quality program desperate to take FMGs.

As well all know, say what you want, even though some may perceive the military programs as lower quality, competitive specialites are still competitive in the military and hard to get into. For some reason, on the Army side of the house, general surgery has become more competitive over the past few years.

Myself personally, I have nothing against FMGs. When I was in medical school I actually rotated at a hospital that seemed to take a lot of FMGs. What I noticed was that many of them had been doctors in their country before, so at least knew something, they didn't seem to be as arrogant as US trained docs, and they all worked very hard!! Of course, there are exceptions, but for the most part, that is what I saw. This particular hospital was a very good hospital, but the reason they had a lot of FMGs was because it was not in a desireable location, so they actually did not get many US applicants.

FMGs just need to face the fact, you will have to fight for good training if you want a US residency. If the military started opening up their doors, well that just opens up a brand new can of worms all together. I am not sure how many foreigners will enjoy the service obligation part of the program and being deployed as a GMO when say they trained as an internist, pediatrician, etc.

 

[turquoiseblue]

im a born us citizen so i have every right to be in the military if i so choose.

an fmg is an MD like anyone else. and i don't believe that they lower the quality of programs. you need to get rid of non-fmg vs fmg mentality because they are here to stay. i think it is antiamerican, prejudice, rude and not to mention downright arrogant to say they have no place in the military, especially if they are US citizens. in fact my dad is a foreign born us citizen FMG who specialized and a retired lieutenant colonel of the army reserves...so bha ha ha ha ha!

I think SDN is the most God awful place i've ever been to ask a question. people here make it wrong to ask..whereas i can ask any recruiter out there and they'll welcome me with total politeness and want to answer my question to the fullest. SDN vs. the real world. hmmm i'd rather live in the real world.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

im a born us citizen so i have every right to be in the military if i so choose.

You have a right? Well, no you really don't.

an fmg is an MD like anyone else. and i don't believe that they lower the quality of programs.

It depends on which programs and which applicants. Foreign born applicants to top schools in their native countries, no. U.S.-born for offshore schools built for applicants from the US, definitely yes. Those schools exist solely to accommodate applicants that were unable to gain admission to U.S. schools.
Why were they unable? Well, I doubt it was because they were better candidates for admission than those who were accepted to U.S. schools.

you need to get rid of non-fmg vs fmg mentality because they are here to stay. i think it is antiamerican, prejudice, rude and not to mention downright arrogant to say they have no place in the military, especially if they are US citizens.

Who said they had no place? There are already IMGs in the U.S. military. No one said that they couldn't apply. Like all the other applicants, they have to be eligible to have an officer's commission. So they have to be U.S. citizens. And if they graduated from a school not in the USA, they have to have passed the USMLE, all three steps and they have to have done enough residency training to get a license. The same standards apply no matter where one graduates.

And you have to apply. But just because you apply and you think they have a staffing need to fill does not mean they have to take every applicant who applies, including you, whether or not you were born here and regardless where you went to medical school. They still get to choose.[/QUOTE]

in fact my dad is a foreign born us citizen FMG who specialized and a retired lieutenant colonel of the army reserves...so bha ha ha ha ha!

And that is relevant? How?

I think SDN is the most God awful place i've ever been to ask a question. people here make it wrong to ask..whereas i can ask any recruiter out there and they'll welcome me with total politeness and want to answer my question to the fullest. SDN vs. the real world. hmmm i'd rather live in the real world.

No, it is just a poor choice for irrational and entitled posters to cop an attitude. You will get called out for that, just as you have been.

Good luck with your application and your attitude. It seems as if you will need some.

 

[DrMetal]

im a born us citizen so i have every right to be in the military if i so choose.

Ummm....no. It's not you're right to join the military if you choose. The military rejects people (despite their US citizenship) everyday, for various different reasons (medical, mental, security, etc). Not that any of that is your case, but I'm just making the point that it's not a right to serve.

an fmg is an MD like anyone else. and i don't believe that they lower the quality of programs. you need to get rid of non-fmg vs fmg mentality because they are here to stay. i think it is antiamerican, prejudice, rude and not to mention downright arrogant to say they have no place in the military, especially if they are US citizens. in fact my dad is a foreign born us citizen FMG who specialized and a retired lieutenant colonel of the army reserves...so bha ha ha ha ha!

I don't think anyone has so much issue with you being an FMG. It sounds like most people are in agreement here that FMGs can be good or bad, just like any other source of physicians.

People seem to have an issue with you in particular, b/c of your prior history (evidenced by rants in other forums).

I think SDN is the most God awful place i've ever been to ask a question. people here make it wrong to ask..whereas i can ask any recruiter out there and they'll welcome me with total politeness and want to answer my question to the fullest. SDN vs. the real world. hmmm i'd rather live in the real world.

Well good then piss off. SDN is a fine source, if you know how to use it. Sure, go talk to a recruiter; and when he feeds you a bunch of BS, don't come back here to QC it, that would be a dumb thing to do.

 

[turquoiseblue]

You have a right? Well, no you really don't.

I know that in some circumstances i can't, such as health reasons. I just mean i am eligible as a US citizen to at least try to apply. of course i didn't get into the navy due to health reasons..they wouldn't even talk to me further because i take medication, but army is different. im still in the process of finding out.

It depends on which programs and which applicants. Foreign born applicants to top schools in their native countries, no. U.S.-born for offshore schools built for applicants from the US, definitely yes. Those schools exist solely to accommodate applicants that were unable to gain admission to U.S. schools. Why were they unable? Well, I doubt it was because they were better candidates for admission than those who were accepted to U.S. schools.

for your information, US carrib grads have done well. many have made it into residency and are now attendings, at places including harvard, not to mention some in fields like neurosurgery and ophtho. some of them chose carrib over US schools for various reasons. carrib does not mean less quality.

Who said they had no place? There are already IMGs in the U.S. military. No one said that they couldn't apply. Like all the other applicants, they have to be eligible to have an officer's commission. So they have to be U.S. citizens. And if they graduated from a school not in the USA, they have to have passed the USMLE, all three steps and they have to have done enough residency training to get a license. The same standards apply no matter where one graduates.

I am in the process of licensure, just about to take step 3 to finish it off, so thats why i think i may qualify to apply.

Good luck with your application and your attitude. It seems as if you will need some.

thanks for the luck. i think i have every right to have an attitude the way people treat me on this site, with some trying to make sure i never make it in life and saying it is wrong for me to apply and just give up completely.

 

[notdeadyet]

I think SDN is the most God awful place i've ever been to ask a question. people here make it wrong to ask..whereas i can ask any recruiter out there and they'll welcome me with total politeness and want to answer my question to the fullest. SDN vs. the real world. hmmm i'd rather live in the real world.

You may not like what you're being told here, turquoiseblue, but you need to keep something in mind:

• People on SDN have no vested interest in your joining or not joining.
• Recruiters have a very vested interest in your joining

If you are looking at advice from a bunch of strangers in a career path you'd like to go down versus individuals whose entire job is making sure you join, what comes out of the formers' mouth is probably a lot more like the "real world" than the latter.

It's sort of like the documentary vs. the commercial. The documentary may not be as pretty and slick as the commercial, but the info's probably better.

 

[notdeadyet]

some of them chose carrib over US schools for various reasons. carrib does not mean less quality.

Oh c'mon now. Name one. With the exception of that one med student in 1993 that was Grenada-born and really wanted to head back to explore his roots for 4 years, no one chooses a Caribbean MD program over a U.S. MD program. They hold no advantages, they're frighteningly expensive, and they have a very high wash out rate. No one.

I am in the process of licensure, just about to take step 3 to finish it off, so thats why i think i may qualify to apply.

As multiple folks have pointed out here, it looks like you don't. Regs state that you need to have completed an internship year. Two partial internship years do not equal one full internship. When you've finished a full internship, you'd likely qualify.

Even then, keep in mind that these are minimum requirements. The military is under no obligation to meet everyone who meets them. If they look at an applicant with two aborted attempts at internship from a foreign medical school, they may not opt you for selection anyway. By all means apply, but do so with both eyes open.

You've asked and you've been answered. Feel free to pursue it with a recruiter, but don't slam folks here for answering your questions because you don't like the answers, please.

I am an FMG.

Sounds like you're not.

FMG = someone who is foreign-born and graduated from their country's medical school.

IMG = someone American-born who graduated from a foreign medical school.

There's obviously a bit of a difference in these two. Advice given for an IMG is quite different to one given for an FMG.

 

[notdeadyet]

Well good then piss off. SDN is a fine source, if you know how to use it.

It's nice of you to defend SDN, but this is veering close to name calling and is violation of TOS.

Everyone- feel free to contribute if you have anything to say, but if it keeps getting personal, the thread will be shut.

 

[rotatores]

Hmmm...maybe this was already said...but I know of a military FP program that has picked up an FMG the past three years. So yes...it can happen. These interns where straight out of med school too.