FMGs are vultures circling for the residency position your scrambling for PART 2

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cedricw

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Funny how this thread was suddenly closed and now left to disappear within the pages. You guys need to grow up and stop being such crybabies about the fact that people do not support American students running to foreign diploma mills when they cannot get into an accredited school. A word of advice for you guys that were having issues on the other thread: shut your mouth and hope you can slip through the cracks long enough to get a US-approved MD. Because trust me that some day your unaccredited pipeline will be shut down.
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If we're talking about the same thread, it's still up on the next page . . .

If not, sorry.:)
 
Yeah, but unfortunately it has conveniently remained closed since it made all the undeserving american FMGs on here very sad to hear some damned truth around here.
 
You are an elitist prick. You are also very immature. Your maturity level borders on the7th grade level. By the way, I am not an FMG, and I still think you are a prick.
 
Just to inform the initiated to this script, it goes like this.

Argument for FMGs - FMGs take positions that USMDs rarely want, in out-of-the-way places, bad neighborhoods and uncompetative residencies. Only the finest FMGs get competative residencies or desirable positions, so they are often much more competant than their US counterparts in the same position. Why would you hate FMGs (much like illegal immigrants) when they take jobs you wouldn't want and give you a leg up on the cushy jobs that you crave?

Argument against FMGs - FMGs went to foreign medical schools and come to the US to do their government-sponsored training, so many people think they are parasites feeding upon the teats of the American taxpayer. The only problem with the argument against is that these goverment-funded spots are actually providing hospitals with much-needed free labor, which they wouldn't be able to provide on their own, and allows them to care for more patients in an overcrowded health care system.

The only good argument against FMGs that I've heard is that some don't speak English very well. That, unfortunately, is true, and can lead to difficulties in communication.
 
That is nice of you to elevate this discussion to a political debate. But this thread was restarted by a troll who needs to put other people down to validate himself. The guy who originally started this post was a complete phony and a cocky bastard. He didn't make any sound arguements against FMGs. Instead, he would brag about how he is going to be our dean someday. It is really funny how some people on this site act like grade schoolers.
 
This troll/social misfit needs to be banned from SDN. Who's all for it?
 
I second the motion Dr. Lee.
 
The thread in question was closed for reasons clearly noted in my response. As others have pointed out, the thread has not disappeared, but is simply moved down in order of most recent responses. Resetting your default will bring it up.

Regardless of whether or not you think you are doing users a favor by pointing out their inadequacies, it is a violation of the TOS to attack certain users, call others names, etc. For those out there calling for cedricw's banning, simply being a jerk is not a violation of the TOS and these users are best ignored. However, I will not allow the vast majority of SDN users to be insulted and will seriously consider banning someone under my "irritating nuisance clause" if I have the support of the other Mods.
 
This member continues to blindly insult other members and most certainly fits the bill of an "irritating nuisance." Please ban this troll!!
 
Cedricw:

You would sound more authentic if you would write your BS in German. I think you were one of the "weird" ones that "slipped through the cracks," of our med school system..... Loser....
 
hey...I have an idea...maybe after you ban this guy, we all could get together and have an old fashion book burning party.

If you don't like what the guy is saying...don't click the thread....or don't respond. All you get by responding and calling names (just as immature as his opinion in my opinion) is more posts. If you ignore an antagonist, they usually shut up.
 
Hey Folks,
Really, there are plenty of residency programs out there for well-qualified folks. I welcome the competition from FMGs if they jump through all the hoops and they have plenty of hoops to jump through in order to be eligible for training here in the US. If you have been "alive" in medical school here in the US, you have nothing to worry about from any FMG. There are far more slots than residents out there and from experience, I would rather have my program fill with FMGs that are qualified than to go unfilled. You really don't want to have to take up the slack when folks are missing from your residency year.

Chill folks! There are plenty of slots to go around in everything.

njbmd:cool:
 
Originally posted by ortho2003
hey...I have an idea...maybe after you ban this guy, we all could get together and have an old fashion book burning party.

If you don't like what the guy is saying...don't click the thread....or don't respond. All you get by responding and calling names (just as immature as his opinion in my opinion) is more posts. If you ignore an antagonist, they usually shut up.
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I politely disagree. If someone is being a biligerent dingus at a bar, the bouncers throw him out. Is this a major first amendment violation of freedom of speech? Not really. It is an unpleasant person being told to go somewhere else. If someone wants to make credible arguements agianst the importation of foriegn residents, then we have no problem. But when someone is calling foriegn residents "vultures", and 5th pathway American residents "losers who found a loop hole" then he is simply being an unpleasant prick. When this guy was ignored he kept on posting. He told a premed on another thread that he was unfit to go to medical school just because the premed was interested in one particular subspecialty, and he said that adcoms would try and weed him out. This is ridicululous! A resident ****ing with premeds online is the stupidist egotrip I have ever seen. Maybe this guy can go to high school and tell a bunch of 16 year olds that they "don't have what it takes to be a doctor, unlike yours truly", maybe that is what this guy needs to build up his ego.
Thanks for comparing us with nazis by the way. What goes on here on these boards is really on the same scale is that...not!
 
Bingo Masonator. :clap:

Originally posted by Masonator
I politely disagree. If someone is being a biligerent dingus at a bar, the bouncers throw him out. Is this a major first amendment violation of freedom of speech? Not really. It is an unpleasant person being told to go somewhere else. If someone wants to make credible arguements agianst the importation of foriegn residents, then we have no problem. But when someone is calling foriegn residents "vultures", and 5th pathway American residents "losers who found a loop hole" then he is simply being an unpleasant prick. When this guy was ignored he kept on posting. He told a premed on another thread that he was unfit to go to medical school just because the premed was interested in one particular subspecialty, and he said that adcoms would try and weed him out. This is ridicululous! A resident ****ing with premeds online is the stupidist egotrip I have ever seen. Maybe this guy can go to high school and tell a bunch of 16 year olds that they "don't have what it takes to be a doctor, unlike yours truly", maybe that is what this guy needs to build up his ego.
Thanks for comparing us with nazis by the way. What goes on here on these boards is really on the same scale is that...not!
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I politely disagree. If someone is being a biligerent dingus at a bar, the bouncers throw him out. Is this a major first amendment violation of freedom of speech? Not really. It is an unpleasant person being told to go somewhere else. If someone wants to make credible arguements agianst the importation of foriegn residents, then we have no problem. But when someone is calling foriegn residents "vultures", and 5th pathway American residents "losers who found a loop hole" then he is simply being an unpleasant prick.
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Man, you really don't get it. The FACT of the matter is that it is what I am saying that upsets you, not how I say it. The fact that I don't think american FMGs should be allowed to practice in the US bothers all of the FMGs on here. They cry and call me a bigot. No, I am just in support of residency positions being filled by people that were actually accepted to an accredited medical school instead of a diploma mill. The system of allowing IMGs into the US as long as they complete a US residency exists to allow non-US doctors a chance to come to the US and continue their medical careers. Ross and other carrib. based medical schools popped up to take advantage of this and place the rejected american students in a "foreign" medical school, thereby giving them supposedly the same credibility as a non-US trained doc trying to find a position. This was done PURELY for money and the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of people accepted to these schools are of such a low quality that they would have a tough time getting into podiatry or chiropractic schools out here! Yet they are allowed to go overseas and buy a diploma for 200k and enter the medical system through this loophole. Now, all of that was said from the perspective of providing a "credible argument," just as it was in my previous posts. However, it makes the american FMGs tear up and they react without thinking and start throwing insults by calling me a bigot, nazi, etc. Uh, sorry but just because I call you out for not being good enough to get into an accredited school and then attempting to get in through a loophole, that doesn't make me a nazi. If anything you can definitely say that I am in fact a bigot towards unqualified individuals trying to sneak into a spot that they did not earn. And I know for a fact that 99% of my peers agree (they just don't care enough to try to stop it).


He told a premed on another thread that he was unfit to go to medical school just because the premed was interested in one particular subspecialty, and he said that adcoms would try and weed him out. This is ridicululous!
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This is not true. This premed said he was interested in going into a "competitive specialty" and then proceeded to list all of the most competitive spots. I'm sorry, but anyone who has not started med school but already knows that they are only interested in one of the competitive residencies (as in they are not interested in anything else by nature of it not being considered competitive), they obviously don't have their head in the right place. It is much different to say as a premed that you are interested in going into ENT (which is very competitive), than to say you don't know what you want to go into, but it will be something competitive. I sat on the adcom at my school and time and time again we got applicants who it was clear did not appear to be going into medicine for the right reasons, usually because they were smart and then thought they should have one of the typically "smart and prestigous" career fields, even though when the truth came out they weren't very interested in medicine. One of the ways we commonly weeded these people out was by the way the original poster thought. If a person comes into an interview and says they are not sure what they would like to go into, but it will definitely be one of the more competitive fields, we put the big red X on their app and threw it into the trash because we knew we had another person pursuing a career for the wrong reasons. Sorry if you cannot understand that, but open your mind a little and you may get it some day.
 
I think Cedric needs to get laid.......:idea:
 
You think 99% of doctors agree with you about IMGs from the carribean? That sounds pretty high to me. The carribean docs I have met have been competent, in fact they are often better then IMGs I've seen from foreign countries outside this hemisphere.
As for the adcoms deep sixing people who want to do something competitive... You and your school can use whatever selection criteria you want. However not everyone who is interested in a subspecialty is going into medicine for the "wrong reasons". Some people are interested in basic science, technology, and how these interface with medicine. They want there specialty choice to incorporate this. Specialties like radiology, neurosurg, GI, and cards would resonate well with these kinds of people. Does their interest in basic science or technology mean they will be poor doctors? I doubt it.

As for your adcom policy, have you ever thought that trashing those who are interested in specializing simply promotes pre-meds who are willing to lie about going into primary care. Pre-meds are smarter then you think and they figure out how to tell you what you want to hear. I know so many pre-meds who lie and spout the whole primary care thing during their medical school interviews. Then wham, come 4th year many decide to specialize. Your policy for "screening" doesn't work as well as you think. You are simply punishing candidates who are honest about their career aspirations.

You are a 4th year medical student and you act like you know everything there is to know about medical school applications. You were telling a premed that he shouldn't even apply to medical school based on a post, without ever having met the kid and knowing nothing about his background. You are a joke.
 
The bar/bouncer example was a rather poor one. People who get thrown out of bars are usually people who get way too wasted to think clearly. I assume that Cedricw is thinking clearly and he is definitely articulating clearly. You equte him to a drunk only because you don't agree with him. He probably has equal rights to question your sanity for the same reason. Also, I don't think that he is offending the "vast majority" of users as quoted by the Mod. The voters of California have voiced their opposition to Affirmative Action: should we ban all California users from any thread involving affirmative action?

Some people believe they are entitled to something (residency, med school, model-looking spouses, etc), while others disagree. Of course, it's sort of interesting that many/most of the Mods (who respond to these conflicts anyway) on this board are people not in the traditional American college -> American allopathic medical school -> American residency program pathway. DOs will defend DOs, FMGs will defend FMGs, and USIMGs will defend USIMGs, but please be impartial when you are in the moderator role. If someone has the right to post questions such as "what med schools are most friendly to URMs" and "what residency programs are most FMG friendly", I think Cedricw is well within his rights to raise these questions and issues.
 
You can keep posting your diatribe. It still doesn't change the fact that many of us matched and will practice. The majority of the SDN community realize your "diploma mill " comments are BS. You wouldn't have lasted one semester in Dominica you big baby. You would have had to run home to get back on the family teat of security. Just because you feel inadequate doesn't mean you should try to drag others down. We know the truth of our accomplishments even if jerkoffs like you do not. Stew in your hate Sedgewick! I'm really enjoying this!:laugh:
 
Compare Cedric's post vs posts calling him a nazi, a prick, and a big inadequate baby who wouldn't survive in Dominica. Why aren't people calling to ban docmojo and Masonater?
 
Originally posted by tofurious
The bar/bouncer example was a rather poor one. People who get thrown out of bars are usually people who get way too wasted to think clearly. I assume that Cedricw is thinking clearly and he is definitely articulating clearly. You equte him to a drunk only because you don't agree with him. He probably has equal rights to question your sanity for the same reason. Also, I don't think that he is offending the "vast majority" of users as quoted by the Mod. The voters of California have voiced their opposition to Affirmative Action: should we ban all California users from any thread involving affirmative action?

Some people believe they are entitled to something (residency, med school, model-looking spouses, etc), while others disagree. Of course, it's sort of interesting that many/most of the Mods (who respond to these conflicts anyway) on this board are people not in the traditional American college -> American allopathic medical school -> American residency program pathway. DOs will defend DOs, FMGs will defend FMGs, and USIMGs will defend USIMGs, but please be impartial when you are in the moderator role. If someone has the right to post questions such as "what med schools are most friendly to URMs" and "what residency programs are most FMG friendly", I think Cedricw is well within his rights to raise these questions and issues.
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I don't see how affirmative action is the same as the caribbean medical school issue. Whatever, the examples we use don't really matter. I don't think Cedrick should be banned, his arguments have been semi-thought out. There are other trolls who are much worse. That doesn't mean that when people trash others on this board that they shouldn't be called out.

Just to play devils advocate, how would you react if someone started bashing gay doctors, Indian doctors, female doctors. Would you still want this person to be able to use this forum to voice their opinions? Hating based on schools is different from hating based on race, sex, or nationality, but the root immaturity, generalization and ignorance is pretty much the same.
 
So I'm in a flame war with Cedrick and toofurious. Where is your little lackey yoman? He must be busy bragging about how he is going to be a dermatologist in the northeast and how this makes him better then everyone else. You should bring him back into this so he can tell you guys "you the man", "we gonna be rich beeyotch!"
 
Originally posted by tofurious
Of course, it's sort of interesting that many/most of the Mods (who respond to these conflicts anyway) on this board are people not in the traditional American college -> American allopathic medical school -> American residency program pathway.
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Really? Hmmm...didn't know that.
 
It is clear that sedgewick would not have survived Dominica. He got into a U.S. school and he still is a big P*****. He would have been one of those people who did nothing but bitch and then would have left in the fourth week after failing the first exam. I've seen his kind come and go. He will find his humility someday. You are a Peter Keating to my Howard Roark. Congratulations if you get the reference.
 
Of course, it's sort of interesting that many/most of the Mods (who respond to these conflicts anyway) on this board are people not in the traditional American college -> American allopathic medical school -> American residency program pathway.
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LOL, so THAT explains why he was banned...

:rolleyes:
 
Pray tell which arguments of sedgewicks are worthy of consideration? It seems to me his house of cards has finally come down on him.

Nice work Kinetic!:thumbup:

A man's hatred is always concentrated upon that which makes him conscious of his bad qualities. -Carl Gustav Jung
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I think Ced/yoman and their clan are lost in their ways. I 've worked with many FMGs and USIMGs were are extremely qualified. However, in the same breath, I've also worked with many more who were subpar. But one, like Ced, cannot generalize all of them into a single group. Being a USIMG/FMGs does not absolutely equate to being unqualified, and that's the same for a grad from an accredited US school. Banning USIMGs/FMGs to practice is too extreme and ignorant. Who we really need to ban are ALL unqualified candidates, regardless of where they graduated from. I think the standards we have now to filter them out: USMLE, OSCE, interviews... are good enough.

I can slightly understand why Ced carries a grudge towards FMGs. Based on his earlier posts, he perservered through a lot of challenges and obstacles to get to where he's at. And it must pierce his ego to see others achieved the same thing through "apparent" loopholes. Don't forget, Ced, that you were rejected by a lot of domestic school before slipping into one by a thread. Does barely getting into a US school make you astronomically above a FMG/USIMG, especially those who may have better scores than you?

BTW: I'm a US allopathic grad, and some of my rad onc colleagues are FMGs/USIMGs who are as sharp as a samurai's blade.



Originally posted by cedricw
Man, you really don't get it. The FACT of the matter is that it is what I am saying that upsets you, not how I say it. The fact that I don't think american FMGs should be allowed to practice in the US bothers all of the FMGs on here.
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I think it is laughable for cedrick to have such an attitude towards FMGs who have "slipped" into the system. Being a US grad, he has a massive advantage over them when it comes to matching into a good residency. You think that would be enough, but apparently it isn't. US grads get very preferential treatment in this country compared to foriegn grads.

I barely slipped into a US school myself after my second try, in that sense I'm kind of like Cedrick. I think it is hypocritical to get into a US school with hardwork and luck and then bad mouth people who weren't as lucky as myself.

Cedrick acts like FMGs are getting away with something, but they are often getting residency slots that are less desirable by US grads. Many residencies would not fill if it weren't for FMGs. This would cause graduate medical education to grind to a halt at many community programs. In Cedrick's black and white world this would be a necessary evil in order to prevent "unqualified" people to practice in this country. The funny thing is 5th pathway residents do U.S. 3rd and 4th year rotations, an extra year of internship and take all the same boards as US grads. Cedrick acts like the medical school adcom is the be all and end all of determining one's qualifications to be a doctor. Getting into medical school has nothing to do with becoming a doctor, however board exams, clinical rotations and residency does.

Cedrick were sorry if you had to work extra hard to get into medical school. I did as well. If you have some deep seated resentment about it, talk to a shrink and quit projecting your anger to FMGs.
 
Cancer-doc and Masonator,

How 'bout a round of beer on me? :laugh:
 
some ppl i talked to were more concerned about these FMGs moving to desirable locations like SF, NY, LA AFTER their residencies and start competiting w/ US docs for patients.
 
Originally posted by Masonator
I politely disagree. If someone is being a biligerent dingus at a bar, the bouncers throw him out. Is this a major first amendment violation of freedom of speech? Not really. It is an unpleasant person being told to go somewhere else. If someone wants to make credible arguements agianst the importation of foriegn residents, then we have no problem. But when someone is calling foriegn residents "vultures", and 5th pathway American residents "losers who found a loop hole" then he is simply being an unpleasant prick. When this guy was ignored he kept on posting. He told a premed on another thread that he was unfit to go to medical school just because the premed was interested in one particular subspecialty, and he said that adcoms would try and weed him out. This is ridicululous! A resident ****ing with premeds online is the stupidist egotrip I have ever seen. Maybe this guy can go to high school and tell a bunch of 16 year olds that they "don't have what it takes to be a doctor, unlike yours truly", maybe that is what this guy needs to build up his ego.
Thanks for comparing us with nazis by the way. What goes on here on these boards is really on the same scale is that...not!
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Never did I say this was an infringement of freedom of speech, nor did I compare those calling for cedric's bannishment or calling him names to Nazis...there are plenty of closed minded Americans who burned books.

bottom line...he is entitled to his opinion and can post it on this board. If you don't like it, you can choose to ignore his posts or respond if you like, regardless of how immature the majority of these responses have been, but there is no reason to banish this guy for ruffling some feathers.
 
Originally posted by chef
some ppl i talked to were more concerned about these FMGs moving to desirable locations like SF, NY, LA AFTER their residencies and start competiting w/ US docs for patients.
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This is a very interesting point. I've heard that SF, NY, and LA are extremely tight job markets for doctors. I could see how people would want to cut other people out of the action. However picking IMGs is kind of arbitrary. In these cities you would be competing with alot of US grads for jobs as well. Why not complain about that. If you were a California native, you could say that all these non Californians are posers who did their training outside the state of California and now they want to come here to practice, they should be banned.
 
Market forces should be able to balance out the number of physicians practicing in these "tight" markets and other less desirable markets if there are a set number of physicians in the total work force. If there is a continuous influx of labor, the laws of supply and demand will never reach an equilibrium.

Of course, your high school econ analysis is probably better than my high school econ analysis. I should shut up before I get banned.
 
Originally posted by tofurious
Market forces should be able to balance out the number of physicians practicing in these "tight" markets and other less desirable markets if there are a set number of physicians in the total work force. If there is a continuous influx of labor, the laws of supply and demand will never reach an equilibrium.

Of course, your high school econ analysis is probably better than my high school econ analysis. I should shut up before I get banned.
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I agree with you in theory. Don't you think that LA, SF, and NY are so competitive that even US grads will have trouble finding a job because of other US grads from California? Most FMGs who train in NY don't seem to stay there, although I am overgeneralizing.

From a purely economic standpoint I agree with you, however the
AAMC has deemed that there will be 25,000+ residencies with only around 18,000 US students released.(These are rough numbers.) This means that the system relies on the FMGs. Theoretically this hurts US doctors, except for the fact that the rate of physician retirement is fairly high and some specialties cannot even keep up. A great example of this is urology and anesthesia. They need to suck up whoever they can to meet the growing demand for services with a shrinking supply of new doctors. When they run out of US grads, they'll take whoever is willing to sign on for residency. Urology doesn't tap into the pool but IM, peds, and anesthesia certainly do.

If the AAMC were to unwisely flood the system with doctors, then the FMG thing would be irresponsible, as US doctors would lose jobs. However I don't think we are there yet. Health care is still growing rapidly and the AAMC still severly controls the number of US grads released per year. They want a shortage as it is better for business and for matching. This could change if the demand for health care were to drastically decrease(i.e. if we became a more healthy, prevention conscious society) but the way things are going with increasing cancer, increasing obesity, etc. this probably won't happen.

One area where are think your predictions are true is CT surgery. There is a huge training infrastructure, which is starting to take FMGs, as fellowships are not filling. Their case volume is drastically decreasing due to interventional cardiology advances, and there will soon be an oversupply. In 2-3 years the CABG may become obsolete( trials are pending). They really should think about cutting back on their total fellowship slots or there will be alot of out of work CT surgeons.
 
1/4 of docs in the US are FMG's, but 1/2 of the specialists are FMG's. Why? USMG's just don't want the spots.

You can't have it both ways.

And the point that everyone is missing is that the hiring (for residency, in the scramble, for fellowship, for attending jobs) is done by people with MUCH more experience and perspective than virtually anyone has on SDN - and, if a group is hiring the FMG's, well, maybe that should be a wake-up call (even for meatheads that speak for "99%" of their classes).
 
You reposted the reference without any reply. Hmmmm.
 
Originally posted by docmojo
You are a Peter Keating to my Howard Roark
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Ayn Rand is Nietzsche for stupid people. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I can't say I agree with cedric, but some of the arguments here a bit poor. I think the FMG scare is overrated. Ultimately I think the system should be a bit tighter (there is something suspect about some American students going abroad solely as a "loophole" into the health care system), but it's a system up for rational debate. Come on, claiming he couldn't hack it in a Carribean school? He may be offensive, but such arguments do nothing to make the opposition look credible.

I really hope whoever made the illegal immigrant analogy was kidding. I can see how FMGs fulfill a needed market, but illegal immigrants (besides the obvious ILLEGAL part), do great injustices to legal workers. The claim that they do work that legal workers won't do is completely unsubstantiated (and likely false). In addition, by providing a pool of workers who will work for next to nothing and be treated like dirt (no health insurance, benefits of any kind, etc), they devalue the labor market and discourage borderline employers from hiring workers through a legal channel. The societal strain this creates in enormous. If you'd care to argue this, come work in health care in LA and witness the epidemic for yourself.

Sorry, bit of a tangent, but that kind of flip analogy tends to peeve me.
 
Originally posted by cedricw
Funny how this thread was suddenly closed and now left to disappear within the pages. You guys need to grow up and stop being such crybabies about the fact that people do not support American students running to foreign diploma mills when they cannot get into an accredited school. A word of advice for you guys that were having issues on the other thread: shut your mouth and hope you can slip through the cracks long enough to get a US-approved MD. Because trust me that some day your unaccredited pipeline will be shut down.
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wow.....It is just unbelievably shocking and terrifying to know that you will be someday a practicing physician. You are not only extremely ignorant (even more ignorant considering that you are so called MD) and narrow-minded, but you seem to have an intense animosity and hatred that can only stem from your own insecurities. I come from a mixed background and I have lived in several countries and have experienced various cultures and it just speaks volumes of your idiocy that is obvious in your posts. I am not writing this in support of FMG's (or IMG's..again the concept is just foreign med school education whether referring to carrib or Europe, etc) because I will be one of the "vultures"......this fall I will begin my medical education in a US allopathic med school so I have no reason to write this beyond the fact that your posts are so repulsive and shocking. I find your comments very much reflective of the egocentrism that pervades in a large number of (ignorant) individuals in US. To say that any foreign educated medical doctor is incompetent is not only ridiculous but ludicrous. For one thing, medicine is a profession that began outside of US (as the history of US is only 200+ years) and has a stood a long history in Europe and Asia.

I could almost bet on the fact that you are very much bitter and frustrated perhaps because of the fact that you failed at some point in your career or see your sociopathic, egocentric habits getting you no further than those "vulture" FMG's. By posting this comments you have not only lost respect in the eyes of a large number of SDNers but you have precisely defined the true meaning of an "idiot" with an "MD" degree with a maturity of a 5 year old. May god have mercy on your soul as you would seem to need it much as you journey the path of maturity and humanity.
 
is there a reason why aamc does not, lets say, double the # of US medstudents/yr to 34000, and severely limit FMGs from gaining practice privileges in US ?
 
Originally posted by tofurious
The bar/bouncer example was a rather poor one. People who get thrown out of bars are usually people who get way too wasted to think clearly. I assume that Cedricw is thinking clearly and he is definitely articulating clearly. You equte him to a drunk only because you don't agree with him. He probably has equal rights to question your sanity for the same reason. Also, I don't think that he is offending the "vast majority" of users as quoted by the Mod. The voters of California have voiced their opposition to Affirmative Action: should we ban all California users from any thread involving affirmative action?

Some people believe they are entitled to something (residency, med school, model-looking spouses, etc), while others disagree. Of course, it's sort of interesting that many/most of the Mods (who respond to these conflicts anyway) on this board are people not in the traditional American college -> American allopathic medical school -> American residency program pathway. DOs will defend DOs, FMGs will defend FMGs, and USIMGs will defend USIMGs, but please be impartial when you are in the moderator role. If someone has the right to post questions such as "what med schools are most friendly to URMs" and "what residency programs are most FMG friendly", I think Cedricw is well within his rights to raise these questions and issues.
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I dont understand why you are kissing up to ced's asss...!! does ced need mommy tuforius' help or are you also a prick like ced.......by the way, you both should open a practice together in some remote isolated area and spare us all and many innocent patients.
 
How does it feel to be banned social misfit....this is probably how your real life is.....not fitting in anywhere (not having a single friend) despite being a non-vulture md. BTW, you chose a great career as a radiologist, nothing beats avoiding social contacts with those nuisances called "patients"
 
Originally posted by Disenchanted 1
I dont understand why you are kissing up to ced's asss...!! does ced need mommy tuforius' help or are you also a prick like ced.......by the way, you both should open a practice together in some remote isolated area and spare us all and many innocent patients.
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I don't see how your comments are so much more thought out and intelligent than cedricw's. I think you made my point right here: people who are not too PC for the time and the audience are banned, while others can attack those who speak their mind with name calling and immaturity without impunity.

As for the issue of why AAMC does not increase the number of medical students trained, two answers: one, there is not a need for that many physicians - retirement age is likely to be pushed back soon given the way life expectency increases and retirement benefits decrease, and the actual number of physicians NEEDED per year into the market is probably somewhere between the number of USMGs and the number of residency spots (there is a discussion elsewhere about how some hospitals don't really NEED residents; they only use residents as cheap labor and a source of income); two, as long as there is an influx of FMGs who were not trained as costly as USMGs were, why increase the cost of this country to train more physicians?
 
American Medical Graduates always hold an upper hand in making in to a competitive residency spots, anyday. The remaining spots are filled by FMGs. It is frustrating for us sometimes when a program directors tells us on our face that he prefers an AMG who is least qualified than an excellent FMG. However, I understand the truth that CITIZENS FIRST. I would do the same in my country.
Stopping FMGs all together is an option to make health care professionals exclusively for AMGs. However, this option is non-progmatic considering the demand for physicians in USA, especially underserved population where foreign physicians make their first steps as physician in USA. Producing more AMGs is another option, but it will cause an imbalance in professional education.
Most countries around the world doesn't want their physicians to leave the country. All countries invests lot of their money to educate their children in to become doctors. They need the service of their physicians. Ironically, most graduate and are enticed by the kind of money physicians earn in USA. A few come to experience research and education which this great nation stands for. In a way it is betraying their mother land and serving this rich nation. Hence, Americans should be happy to recieve highly qualified professionals from all over the world- brain drain.
Thinking about the future of the professionals migration, America has been plucking the fruits of someone else's toil, things will change. After all, this is a global village.
 
Originally posted by chef
is there a reason why aamc does not, lets say, double the # of US medstudents/yr to 34000, and severely limit FMGs from gaining practice privileges in US ?
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From what I've heard from attendings, the AAMC purposefully restricts the number of US grads to keep the supply less then the demand. This ensures an excellent placement for US grads in both residency and beyond. If they doubled the US med students, think about how many US grads would go unmatched. The number would be staggering, and this would occur even if FMGs were totally excluded. I think this system works quite well.
I have friends who were in the bottom of our class who matched in ivy leauge anesthesia programs. If we doubled US grads we would have that much more competition for jobs and residency. By keeping the numbers down and relying on FMGs, we are turning things to our advantage because we are given so much more consideration then they are.

Remember how hard it was to get into medical school. You had to convince adcoms why you would be an asset. If there were 10,000 more US grads then there were residency slots, it would be that hard to get into residency...anywhere. A US grad wouldn't be "guaranteed" a residency like they are now.
 
Originally posted by tofurious
I don't see how your comments are so much more thought out and intelligent than cedricw's. I think you made my point right here: people who are not too PC for the time and the audience are banned, while others can attack those who speak their mind with name calling and immaturity without impunity.

As for the issue of why AAMC does not increase the number of medical students trained, two answers: one, there is not a need for that many physicians - retirement age is likely to be pushed back soon given the way life expectency increases and retirement benefits decrease, and the actual number of physicians NEEDED per year into the market is probably somewhere between the number of USMGs and the number of residency spots (there is a discussion elsewhere about how some hospitals don't really NEED residents; they only use residents as cheap labor and a source of income); two, as long as there is an influx of FMGs who were not trained as costly as USMGs were, why increase the cost of this country to train more physicians?
Click to expand...

Where is the thread about residents being used as cheap labor?
 
Originally posted by tofurious
I don't see how your comments are so much more thought out and intelligent than cedricw's. I think you made my point right here: people who are not too PC for the time and the audience are banned, while others can attack those who speak their mind with name calling and immaturity without impunity.

As for the issue of why AAMC does not increase the number of medical students trained, two answers: one, there is not a need for that many physicians - retirement age is likely to be pushed back soon given the way life expectency increases and retirement benefits decrease, and the actual number of physicians NEEDED per year into the market is probably somewhere between the number of USMGs and the number of residency spots (there is a discussion elsewhere about how some hospitals don't really NEED residents; they only use residents as cheap labor and a source of income); two, as long as there is an influx of FMGs who were not trained as costly as USMGs were, why increase the cost of this country to train more physicians?
Click to expand...

Well the same could apply for you.....I already reasoned my way through in my first (above) post. As for your posts, it is not your argument that makes me mad it is simply that you are being condescending toward a whole group of professionals.....yes perhaps it is a fact that some were not academically as stellar as you and had to go to carrib but that doesn't warrent your degrading attitude. They already face enough challenges and obstacles trying to attain a half decent residency. Plus, what gives you a write to generalize all those indivuals into one stereotype.....what if a person faced a personal tragedy (death, illness) and as a result suffered academically during undergrad and thus, was coaxed to consider applying to carrib as the only alternative!??
 
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