There are as many FMGs scrambling for those positions as US grads. We deserve spots before them. NO FMG better have matched before any US med grads have matched. The Carribean and Canada is NOT the US. The fact is that I ranked my programs according to how few FMGs were accepted last year. FYI, I matched derm in the northeast. Im gonna be rich, biatch! (to the tune of snoop dog)
FMGs are vultures circling for the residency position your scrambling for
- Thread starter yoman
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You hoser. First of all, change your initials from MD to DO. PIMP Popper, how can you put the initials, MD when you go to a DO school? Im gonna your dean! Whats wrong with canadian medical schools, eh? Traditional US medical students bust their ass and go to good US high schools and strong US colleges. As a reward for this, some of them get screwed and cannot get into medical school. The ultimate insult is that those who do get into medical school in the US cannot get into a residency in the US. How would you feel if I did my derm residency in Canada? Of course you would love it, so you would try to grab my derm spot in the northeast. But, its mine mine mine!!!
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Yeah the US med students who don't match into derm or radiology got their spots stolen by a FMG. Foreigners!! I am glad the Northeastern derm programs still admit fine red necked individuals like yourself.
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FYI: despite the conventional "wisdom" amongst US medical students there are VERY few FMGs/IMGs who get coveted US residency positions over a US grad.
When FMGs/IMGs (use whichever term you prefer) match into a US residency position, it is either because a) it was a position no US student wanted or b) because they impressed the program sufficiently that they were preferred over a US student.
FMGs/IMGs are not "stealing" positions from US students, especially in a competitive field like Derm. As most residents and faculty will tell you, we don't give a darn whether or not the resident sitting next to us in the ICU is a US grad or not - we only care about whether they work well with us and can take care of the patients.
I don't desire to be drawn into an argument about this, but it only serves to highlight your ignorance on the subject to state that you chose residency programs on how few (or none) FMGs they have. I'm sure the Department of Rad Onc at Hopkins is glad you didn't apply there - good gosh, their Chief is an IMG. Same for Stanford - heaven forbid you go there, they have some delightful and skilled IMGs on residency roster. Yes, these may be exceptions to the rule, but remember when you actually start residency - no one cares where you went to medical school and if an FMG/IMG is in training with you, its probably because the PD and the rest of the more senior residents felt that they deserved to be.
Finally, say what you will about Caribbean schools but the last time I checked Canadian schools were LCME accredited and harder to get into than many US schools. But I suppose the LCME should have checked with you before accrediting those schools and allowing those "vultures" in, and possibly to compete for US residencies. I'm glad my Derm colleagues here don't share your attitudes.
You've been a great help to others by posting Unfilled program information; I'll request you limit your SDN posting to useful topics rather than derogating a large group of people, whom you will spend the rest of your life working with (and possibly, for).
When FMGs/IMGs (use whichever term you prefer) match into a US residency position, it is either because a) it was a position no US student wanted or b) because they impressed the program sufficiently that they were preferred over a US student.
FMGs/IMGs are not "stealing" positions from US students, especially in a competitive field like Derm. As most residents and faculty will tell you, we don't give a darn whether or not the resident sitting next to us in the ICU is a US grad or not - we only care about whether they work well with us and can take care of the patients.
I don't desire to be drawn into an argument about this, but it only serves to highlight your ignorance on the subject to state that you chose residency programs on how few (or none) FMGs they have. I'm sure the Department of Rad Onc at Hopkins is glad you didn't apply there - good gosh, their Chief is an IMG. Same for Stanford - heaven forbid you go there, they have some delightful and skilled IMGs on residency roster. Yes, these may be exceptions to the rule, but remember when you actually start residency - no one cares where you went to medical school and if an FMG/IMG is in training with you, its probably because the PD and the rest of the more senior residents felt that they deserved to be.
Finally, say what you will about Caribbean schools but the last time I checked Canadian schools were LCME accredited and harder to get into than many US schools. But I suppose the LCME should have checked with you before accrediting those schools and allowing those "vultures" in, and possibly to compete for US residencies. I'm glad my Derm colleagues here don't share your attitudes.
You've been a great help to others by posting Unfilled program information; I'll request you limit your SDN posting to useful topics rather than derogating a large group of people, whom you will spend the rest of your life working with (and possibly, for).
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You lump a lot of different people together when you talk about FMG's. I am U.S. born and yet, I am an FMG. Do I deserve a spot less than you? I think not! Does an Indian-trained physician deserve a spot less than you. I think not!
The vultures you speak of have had to deal with many situations U.S. students don't dream of. For those from my school (Ross University); we have faced discrimination from the citizens of the country in which we studied. Power outages were frequent in the land where we studied. Heavy rain storms were common and hurricanes were always a threat. Phone calls were expensive and visits with family and friends were infrequent for those who could afford to fly back to the States. Medical care was a patchy affair if one had illness. Not only did we face those difficulties but then we have to come back to the U.S. and face *****s such as yourself with all of their prejudices.
I worked with many U.S. grads in New York. Some were better medical students than me and some were worse. Overall I fared quite well and feel these experiences have made me stronger.
So, for all of the foreign grads I would like to say that I hope you end up working for an FMG some day. Then you will realize we are just like U.S. grads. We just studied somewhere else.
The vultures you speak of have had to deal with many situations U.S. students don't dream of. For those from my school (Ross University); we have faced discrimination from the citizens of the country in which we studied. Power outages were frequent in the land where we studied. Heavy rain storms were common and hurricanes were always a threat. Phone calls were expensive and visits with family and friends were infrequent for those who could afford to fly back to the States. Medical care was a patchy affair if one had illness. Not only did we face those difficulties but then we have to come back to the U.S. and face *****s such as yourself with all of their prejudices.
I worked with many U.S. grads in New York. Some were better medical students than me and some were worse. Overall I fared quite well and feel these experiences have made me stronger.
So, for all of the foreign grads I would like to say that I hope you end up working for an FMG some day. Then you will realize we are just like U.S. grads. We just studied somewhere else.
Global Disrobal
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In cases such as this, just ignore them as all they seek is attention.
Good day all!
Good day all!
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Please don't feed the trolls!
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Originally posted by Finally M3
Please don't feed the trolls!
Sorry - you're right. I just couldn't help myself (a bit cranky today).
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Just curious as to what your definition of "rich" is?
Personally I don't think any doctors that live purely off their income are "rich" -- at least not by my definition of the word. How much does the highest paid dermatologist make? 1 -- maybe 2 mill? And that's a lot to you?
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1-2 Million a year isn't rich to you? Are you kidding me? I'd be happy with 10% of that salary.
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this trolls' ignorance is amazing. However did you get into a US school?
Furthermore, how did you become a doctor? Obviously not a good one... but let your scores hide your intelligence.
I won't feed the troll... but I have no tolerance for ignorance.
What's your problem with someone trying to do what they want to do? Regardless of where it is?
Furthermore, how did you become a doctor? Obviously not a good one... but let your scores hide your intelligence.
I won't feed the troll... but I have no tolerance for ignorance.
What's your problem with someone trying to do what they want to do? Regardless of where it is?
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What this genius is sooo eloquently saying is what the vast majority of US medical students feel - that's RIGHT!. Giving FMG/IMGs US post graduates JOBS is like exporting 200,000 US jobs abroad - what might make Bush loose this election. Its not right to the people who played by the rules the whole time & get shafted at the end. Its also simple ecomonics for any US medical grad that wants his/her MD/DO to be worth anything. US grads - this is your $$$, act like it. If you few dissenters disagree SO strongly, why have so many people read this thread?
Stingray,
You raise an intersting issue as does Yoman. I cannot question the motivation for the initial posting-- whether it be for comical or inflammatory reasons or a combination of both. Many US grads feel some animosity towards FMGs because they may feel threatened that their spots are threatened. In reality, as the moderator has so eloquently stated, this is not true. Without someone to fill less desirable spots, our medical system would be in dire straits. I was attracted to this thread for its title and half-hoping that this was more to provoke conversation rather than become a podium for bigotry. There are many strong reactions here because to some extent this affects all of us. As a US med student, I have had the privilege of working with some highly recruited foreign grads that have even assumed major leadership roles (deans, department chairs, etc.). I therefore know that the bottom line is this-- top programs want the top people. If you feel thereatened by this it's because you are not confident to blankly state, "I wil be coveted by any program I want". Which is a very natural response. But to transform that uncertainty and insecurity into anger/frustration guised as humor is a telling commentary on the state of our US med students. Many will continue this thread because there is truth to it-- many students feel threatened. Freedom of speech should prevail. The timing of this thread (during scramble and before match day) was terribly off and suggestive of an air of aggression.
You raise an intersting issue as does Yoman. I cannot question the motivation for the initial posting-- whether it be for comical or inflammatory reasons or a combination of both. Many US grads feel some animosity towards FMGs because they may feel threatened that their spots are threatened. In reality, as the moderator has so eloquently stated, this is not true. Without someone to fill less desirable spots, our medical system would be in dire straits. I was attracted to this thread for its title and half-hoping that this was more to provoke conversation rather than become a podium for bigotry. There are many strong reactions here because to some extent this affects all of us. As a US med student, I have had the privilege of working with some highly recruited foreign grads that have even assumed major leadership roles (deans, department chairs, etc.). I therefore know that the bottom line is this-- top programs want the top people. If you feel thereatened by this it's because you are not confident to blankly state, "I wil be coveted by any program I want". Which is a very natural response. But to transform that uncertainty and insecurity into anger/frustration guised as humor is a telling commentary on the state of our US med students. Many will continue this thread because there is truth to it-- many students feel threatened. Freedom of speech should prevail. The timing of this thread (during scramble and before match day) was terribly off and suggestive of an air of aggression.
well doc mo jo said it best! us img's have had to endure alot of hardships. but hey...it will only make us stronger and much better physicians as we appreciate things more. i too am a u.s. citizen that chose to go to the caribbean..not had to. and let me tell you i had a hell of a good time working hard and often playing harder! i lived on an island for two yrs and loved every minute of it. but, hey thats me. i love to travel and adventure new things. not to mention met some of the greatest friends ive ever had! wouldnt change a thing!
the above posts are right...dont feed the trolls! these people often thrive off the attention they never got. probably b/c momma and daddy sent him to a private school!
peace..
one of the "vultures"
the above posts are right...dont feed the trolls! these people often thrive off the attention they never got. probably b/c momma and daddy sent him to a private school!
peace..
one of the "vultures"
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Canadians are not FMGs. All our med schools are LCME accredited and we enter the first round of the match if we enter the US match (AMGs can enter the first round of the Canadian match if desired also).
On average, Canadian med schools are significantly tougher to get into due to federal restrictions on the number of MDs trained.
Oh and...DOs aren't recognized here.
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one of our administrators told us these figures (they might be inaccurate, but they're a good sample)...
roughly 15,000 US Grads...
roughly 23,000 residencies...
you do the math.
what job are img's taking? close to 90% of US grads match... the number for IMG's is around 50%.
and keep in mind, for an IMG to get a position (assuming they don't have contacts) they usually have to outperform you for that same position (to get noticed)... I know IMG's with 97,99 on their steps 1&2 that only got like 4-5 interviews, she's the best shot that anyone has at getting radio from our entire school.
Your ignorance and fears are quite apparent. I thought you'd be smarter than that. Keep in mind, we're all foreigners, unless you're native american.
roughly 15,000 US Grads...
roughly 23,000 residencies...
you do the math.
what job are img's taking? close to 90% of US grads match... the number for IMG's is around 50%.
and keep in mind, for an IMG to get a position (assuming they don't have contacts) they usually have to outperform you for that same position (to get noticed)... I know IMG's with 97,99 on their steps 1&2 that only got like 4-5 interviews, she's the best shot that anyone has at getting radio from our entire school.
Your ignorance and fears are quite apparent. I thought you'd be smarter than that. Keep in mind, we're all foreigners, unless you're native american.
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Even Native Americans immigrated to the present day U.S. at some historical point...
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I think most of us here talking are those who have matched already. Think about the issue from the perspective of a US senior who didn't match because he/she ranked few programs and now regrets it, or didn't apply to enough programs to have interviewed at enough of them to be ranked. Should they not have first go at the unfilled spots? I think they should.
If there are two days of scrambling, why should the smaller number of US seniors and grads not be considered first before the vastly greater number of IMGs and FMGs?
Ironically, look at the HUGE number of family med spots not filled: do all our families and friends have to see family docs who don't speak English first before seeing the rest of us 10 years from now? Or would you recommend them to see American NPs? Strange how the market of medicine is evolving...
If there are two days of scrambling, why should the smaller number of US seniors and grads not be considered first before the vastly greater number of IMGs and FMGs?
Ironically, look at the HUGE number of family med spots not filled: do all our families and friends have to see family docs who don't speak English first before seeing the rest of us 10 years from now? Or would you recommend them to see American NPs? Strange how the market of medicine is evolving...
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I just had to address this...YOU MOST CERTAINLY ARE LESS DESERVING OF THAT POSITION THAN ME!! The fact that you went to ross and boohoo boohoo, lived in the gutter, boohoo boohoo, had poweroutages, boohoo, boohoo...uh, YOU DID NOT GET ACCEPTED TO MEDICAL SCHOOL BUDDY!! That's why you were forced to go to that diploma mill and pay your 200K for an unaccredited education when obviously nobody in the US felt you were fit to be a physician! Now you expect people to believe you are just as deserving as a smart US student who studied his ass off, graduated summa cum laude and was coveted by med schools? I don't think so son. You are deserving of one thing and one thing only, the left over spots...and even THAT is HIGHLY debatable.
If you want to be just as deserving and be looked at with just as much respect, then study hard, earn the grades like ALL OF US HAD TO DO, and go to an ACCREDITED US school. Give me a break...
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FYI: (I am surprised at some of these places)
Hospitals offering Ross University graduates July appointments (2003).
Anesthesiology
Einstein/Montefiore-NY
Mayo Clinic Jacksonville- FL
SUNY Upstate Medical University-NY
Tufts New England Medical Center- MA
U of Connecticut-CT
U of Miami-FL
WSU/Detroit Medical Center-MI
Jackson Memorial Hospital-FL
Emergency Medicine
Sinai-Grace Hospital-MI
Yale-New Haven Hospital-CT
Family Practice
Health Part/Regions Hospital-MN
U Colorado SOM-Denver
Buffalo General Hospital-NY
Carilion Health System-VA
Carraway Methodist-AL
Chippenham Medical Center-VA
Evanston NW Health Care-IL
Family Practice Residency Program-WY
Franklin Square Hospital Center-MD
Glendale Adventist-CA
Greenville Hospital System-SC
Hamot Med Ctr-PA
Harrisburg Hospital-PA
Jamaica Hospital Medical Center-NY
Kaiser Permanente Frontana- CA
Loma Linda University-CA
Lynchburg Family Practice-VA
Meharry Medical College-TN
U Memorial Health-GA
Mercy Health System-WI
Montgomery Family Medical-AL
New Hanover Regional Medical Center-NC
Northern NM Family Practice-NM
Oakwood Hospital-MI
Overlook Hospital-NJ
Palmetto Richland Memorial-SC
Resurrection Medical Center-IL
Riverside City Regional Medical-CA
St Joseph's Hospital-AZ
St Joseph's Hospital-NY
St. Bernards-AK
St. John's Hospital, MO
Trover Foundation-KY
UCLA-CA
UMDNJ/ St. Mary Hospital-NJ
Underwood Memorial Hospital-NJ
U Louisville SOM-KY
U of Connecticut-CT
U of Minnesota Waseca/ Mankato Rural-MN
U of Mississippi, MS
U of New Mexico-NM
Warren Hospital-NJ
Western Reserve Care System-OH
U SOM-ND
Mercer University Medical Center- GA
Internal Medicine
Albany Medical Center Hospital-NY
Beth Israel Medical Center- NJ
Brookdale Hospital-NY
Brooklyn Hospital Center- NY
Cornell Medical Center-NY
U George Washington-DC
Henry Ford HSC-MI
Kaiser Permanente-SF-CA
Long Island College Hospital-NY
Lutheran Medial Center-NY
Maimonides Medical Center-NY
Maricopa County Hospital
Mercy Hospital & Medical Center-IL
Mercy Hospital- IL
Methodist Hospital-NY
Morristown Memorial Hospital-NJ
Mount Carmel Health-OH
Newark Beth Israel Medical Center-NJ
Hospital Medical Center Queens-NY
NY Medical College Brooklyn/Queens SVCMC
Sound Shore Medical Center-NY
St Luke?s-Roosevelt-NY
St. Vincent Catholic Medial Center-NY
SUNY HSC Brooklyn-NY
U Nevada Affiliate Hospital-Vegas
UCLA VA Los Angeles Program-CA
UCSF, CA
UMDNJ-Newark-NJ
U of Connecticut-CT
Wilson Memorial Center-NY
Wright State U SOM-OH
Internal Medicine-Preliminary
Akron General
Nassau University Medical Center-NY
NY Medical College Brooklyn/Queens SVCMC
Internal Medicine-Preliminary & 'Anesthesiology
Hospital of St Raphael-CT & U Thomas Jefferson-PA
Internal Medicine-Preliminary & 'Phys Medicine & Rehab
Westlake Hospital-IL & 'Marianjoy Rehabilitation Hospital-IL
Internal Medicine-Primary
Internal Medical Spokane-WA (Sacred Heart Medical Center)
Loma Linda University-CA
Mt Sinai SOM-Elmhurst-NY
Neurology
Georgetown Hospital-DC
Neurology Sugary
Arrowhead Regional Center, CA
Obstetrics-Gynecology
Nassau U Medical Center-NY
Monmouth Medical Center-NJ
Methodist Hospital-NY
Our Lady Of Mercy-NY
Staten Island U Hospital-NY
U Buffalo Graduate Medical-NY
Obstetrics-Gynecology Preliminary
St Vincent?s Hospital-NY
Pathology
U Medical School-MA
Pediatrics
Long Island College Hospital-NY
Methodist Hospital-NY
Robert Wood Johnson-NJ
SUNY Downstate-Brooklyn-NY
U Affiliate Hospital-NV
U Buffalo Graduate Medical-NY
Winthrop U Hospital-NY
Physical Medical & Rehabilitation
U Rochester/Strong Memorial-NY
Psychiatry
LSU SOM-LA
UMDNJ-R W Johnson-Camden
U Hospital-AL
U Hospital-Morgantown-VA
Radiology-Diagnostic
St Francis-Evanston-IL
U Buffalo Graduate Medical-NY
Surgery
Martin L King Jr./Drew-CA
St John Hospital-MI
UMDNJ-NJ
Wright State University/ Miami Valley Hospital Dayton- OH
York Hospital-PA
Christiana Care Hospital-DE
Geisinger Medical Center in Danville-PA
Mt Sinai SOM-NY
Nassau University Medical Center-NY
U of Nevada-NV
Marshall University -West VA
Surgery-Preliminary
Stony Brook University- NY
Hospitals offering Ross University graduates July appointments (2003).
Anesthesiology
Einstein/Montefiore-NY
Mayo Clinic Jacksonville- FL
SUNY Upstate Medical University-NY
Tufts New England Medical Center- MA
U of Connecticut-CT
U of Miami-FL
WSU/Detroit Medical Center-MI
Jackson Memorial Hospital-FL
Emergency Medicine
Sinai-Grace Hospital-MI
Yale-New Haven Hospital-CT
Family Practice
Health Part/Regions Hospital-MN
U Colorado SOM-Denver
Buffalo General Hospital-NY
Carilion Health System-VA
Carraway Methodist-AL
Chippenham Medical Center-VA
Evanston NW Health Care-IL
Family Practice Residency Program-WY
Franklin Square Hospital Center-MD
Glendale Adventist-CA
Greenville Hospital System-SC
Hamot Med Ctr-PA
Harrisburg Hospital-PA
Jamaica Hospital Medical Center-NY
Kaiser Permanente Frontana- CA
Loma Linda University-CA
Lynchburg Family Practice-VA
Meharry Medical College-TN
U Memorial Health-GA
Mercy Health System-WI
Montgomery Family Medical-AL
New Hanover Regional Medical Center-NC
Northern NM Family Practice-NM
Oakwood Hospital-MI
Overlook Hospital-NJ
Palmetto Richland Memorial-SC
Resurrection Medical Center-IL
Riverside City Regional Medical-CA
St Joseph's Hospital-AZ
St Joseph's Hospital-NY
St. Bernards-AK
St. John's Hospital, MO
Trover Foundation-KY
UCLA-CA
UMDNJ/ St. Mary Hospital-NJ
Underwood Memorial Hospital-NJ
U Louisville SOM-KY
U of Connecticut-CT
U of Minnesota Waseca/ Mankato Rural-MN
U of Mississippi, MS
U of New Mexico-NM
Warren Hospital-NJ
Western Reserve Care System-OH
U SOM-ND
Mercer University Medical Center- GA
Internal Medicine
Albany Medical Center Hospital-NY
Beth Israel Medical Center- NJ
Brookdale Hospital-NY
Brooklyn Hospital Center- NY
Cornell Medical Center-NY
U George Washington-DC
Henry Ford HSC-MI
Kaiser Permanente-SF-CA
Long Island College Hospital-NY
Lutheran Medial Center-NY
Maimonides Medical Center-NY
Maricopa County Hospital
Mercy Hospital & Medical Center-IL
Mercy Hospital- IL
Methodist Hospital-NY
Morristown Memorial Hospital-NJ
Mount Carmel Health-OH
Newark Beth Israel Medical Center-NJ
Hospital Medical Center Queens-NY
NY Medical College Brooklyn/Queens SVCMC
Sound Shore Medical Center-NY
St Luke?s-Roosevelt-NY
St. Vincent Catholic Medial Center-NY
SUNY HSC Brooklyn-NY
U Nevada Affiliate Hospital-Vegas
UCLA VA Los Angeles Program-CA
UCSF, CA
UMDNJ-Newark-NJ
U of Connecticut-CT
Wilson Memorial Center-NY
Wright State U SOM-OH
Internal Medicine-Preliminary
Akron General
Nassau University Medical Center-NY
NY Medical College Brooklyn/Queens SVCMC
Internal Medicine-Preliminary & 'Anesthesiology
Hospital of St Raphael-CT & U Thomas Jefferson-PA
Internal Medicine-Preliminary & 'Phys Medicine & Rehab
Westlake Hospital-IL & 'Marianjoy Rehabilitation Hospital-IL
Internal Medicine-Primary
Internal Medical Spokane-WA (Sacred Heart Medical Center)
Loma Linda University-CA
Mt Sinai SOM-Elmhurst-NY
Neurology
Georgetown Hospital-DC
Neurology Sugary
Arrowhead Regional Center, CA
Obstetrics-Gynecology
Nassau U Medical Center-NY
Monmouth Medical Center-NJ
Methodist Hospital-NY
Our Lady Of Mercy-NY
Staten Island U Hospital-NY
U Buffalo Graduate Medical-NY
Obstetrics-Gynecology Preliminary
St Vincent?s Hospital-NY
Pathology
U Medical School-MA
Pediatrics
Long Island College Hospital-NY
Methodist Hospital-NY
Robert Wood Johnson-NJ
SUNY Downstate-Brooklyn-NY
U Affiliate Hospital-NV
U Buffalo Graduate Medical-NY
Winthrop U Hospital-NY
Physical Medical & Rehabilitation
U Rochester/Strong Memorial-NY
Psychiatry
LSU SOM-LA
UMDNJ-R W Johnson-Camden
U Hospital-AL
U Hospital-Morgantown-VA
Radiology-Diagnostic
St Francis-Evanston-IL
U Buffalo Graduate Medical-NY
Surgery
Martin L King Jr./Drew-CA
St John Hospital-MI
UMDNJ-NJ
Wright State University/ Miami Valley Hospital Dayton- OH
York Hospital-PA
Christiana Care Hospital-DE
Geisinger Medical Center in Danville-PA
Mt Sinai SOM-NY
Nassau University Medical Center-NY
U of Nevada-NV
Marshall University -West VA
Surgery-Preliminary
Stony Brook University- NY
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Now I remember why I didn't go into derm. Your conceit isn't even thinly veiled. Despite derm's competitiveness, (due to lifestyle and money according to most of the dermatologists I've talked to) most of us shy away from it because we find it extremely unrewarding and boring.
Personally, I'd rather have a great FMG working at my side than a bottom of the barrel US grad who wasn't smart enough to apply to and rank enough programs to avoid the scramble.
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- Reaction score
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I just thought that some of these places would have filled their spots (by reputation or location) through the Match that they wouldn't have to throw away so many spots through the scramble...
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- Messages
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- Reaction score
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I wish people would quit saying that, because it just isn't true. The second generation Mexican-American son of a Mexican migrant farm worker is not a foreigner, he's an American. The 6th generation Irish-American is also an American just as much as the Native American she sits next to in class. They were both born here. They're both citizens. They likely speak no other languages, and they both have no allegiance to any other nation. Neither is a foreigner.
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An FMG/IMG in general applies to at least 70/80 programs in order to get a sufficient number of interviews to match. In spite of that, almost 50 % of them have to scramble. If a US senior is unlucky enough not to match just because he/she didn't apply/interview/rank enough or just want Rads/Derm, etc, then that's unfortunate but definitely not worthy of getting preferential treatment . Another point to note is that an FMG/IMG never has the support of a US Dean's office during the scramble.
As far, as your little comment on FP spots go, would you care to elucidate a bit? As far as I could tell, you are not happy that a majority of the unfilled spots will be filled with FMG/IMGs, if that's the case, why don't you start a campaign to encourage US seniors to apply to FP? Or would you rather start another one so that patients in the US don't see MDs with non-American accents? That's discrimination, if you don't get it by now.
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And it is obvious by your response that you don't have any argument to back up why you actually feel you are just as deserving as the rest of us when you were obviously too dumb to get into medical school and took the back door route by getting your degree from a diploma mill. You can say what you will, but your lack of intelligence and false degree will follow you for the rest of your life. People may be polite to your face, but the truth is no matter where you go you are going to have a hard time convincing many people (including yourself) that you are a REAL doctor on the same level as the rest of us.
What are you going to say to your patients when they ask why you went to school outside the US? HONESTLY?!?! Are you going to be honest and tell them it was because you were too dumb to get into medical school, so you had to buy your unaccredited degree for 200K? No, you will probably lie and feed them some crap about wanting to study abroad or something...I'm sure you have already used that line when you have been questioned about it, haven't you? How unfortunate because it is the patients and the medical profession as a whole that suffers because of your greed.
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This thread is ridiculous. Good doctors are good, bad doctors are bad, and the important criteria relate to how well the job is performed. If someone in my family is sick, I dont much care where the doc went to school as long as my loved ones get better.
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"If there are two days of scrambling, why should the smaller number of US seniors and grads not be considered first before the vastly greater number of IMGs and FMGs?
Ironically, look at the HUGE number of family med spots not filled: do all our families and friends have to see family docs who don't speak English first before seeing the rest of us 10 years from now? Or would you recommend them to see American NPs? Strange how the market of medicine is evolving..."
Can you prove that FMG's are preferred in scramble spots over US grads? Because from what I've heard, US grads still have top priority. The hospitals where the FMG's get the nod are the innercity garbage programs that NO US grad would ever consider. In fact these innercity programs consider US Citizen FMG's higher than J1 FMG's...regardless of score...
that's the heirarchy, whether you'd like to admit it or not. US grads get the nod... only outstanding foreign grad may slip past a weak US student... but that isn't the majority...
And in regards to the native american reference. Please read the thread before commenting on my remarks. It was a rebuttle to hatred towards foreigners in general. My argument is to look in the mirror b/c we're all foreigners.
But we are all amercians.... and eventually the FMG's that become citizens then too become americans...
Ironically, look at the HUGE number of family med spots not filled: do all our families and friends have to see family docs who don't speak English first before seeing the rest of us 10 years from now? Or would you recommend them to see American NPs? Strange how the market of medicine is evolving..."
Can you prove that FMG's are preferred in scramble spots over US grads? Because from what I've heard, US grads still have top priority. The hospitals where the FMG's get the nod are the innercity garbage programs that NO US grad would ever consider. In fact these innercity programs consider US Citizen FMG's higher than J1 FMG's...regardless of score...
that's the heirarchy, whether you'd like to admit it or not. US grads get the nod... only outstanding foreign grad may slip past a weak US student... but that isn't the majority...
And in regards to the native american reference. Please read the thread before commenting on my remarks. It was a rebuttle to hatred towards foreigners in general. My argument is to look in the mirror b/c we're all foreigners.
But we are all amercians.... and eventually the FMG's that become citizens then too become americans...
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Originally posted by Finally M3
Please don't feed the trolls!
I like to feed the trolls delicious smegma for breakfast.
BTW, Snoop 'dog' is spelled 'dogg'. Hence the rhyme D-O double G.
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The reality is that I, and other IMG's passed the same exams as the U.S. medical student community. Prior to this year we even had to take two additional exams (TOEFL and CSA).
You merely display your insecurity by your ridiculous vitriol (you can use a dictionary to look up vitriol, I won't tell a soul ). If you were secure in your superiority you would not attack FMG's.
It is true that I do not feel I deserve a spot. It is also true that I earned my degree. I also managed to not become jaded. You are clearly bitter that some FMG's will get a better spot than you due to hard work and intelligence. So. . . with that I wish you well and hope your hatred keeps you warm. It certainly keeps the rest of us entertained!
You merely display your insecurity by your ridiculous vitriol (you can use a dictionary to look up vitriol, I won't tell a soul
). If you were secure in your superiority you would not attack FMG's. It is true that I do not feel I deserve a spot. It is also true that I earned my degree. I also managed to not become jaded. You are clearly bitter that some FMG's will get a better spot than you due to hard work and intelligence. So. . . with that I wish you well and hope your hatred keeps you warm. It certainly keeps the rest of us entertained!
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I agree 100% with you. However, it's quite humorous that you've changed your tune over the past 4 years:
"Just the other day I was pulled off the waitlist at an MD school to which I had applied. I am extremely happy that I don't have to go through the process again, but at the same time a little sorry that I will never get to learn OMM.
What I really want to tell all of you aspiring DOs is that it takes a lot of guts to stand up for what you believe in and pursue your goals even when there are a lot of people against you. The bias I have seen towards DOs from pre-MDs is absolutely frightening. It is scary to think that a future healthcare provider could have so much jealousy and hate in his heart simply because someone is a little different. Truth be known, MDs and DOs and virtually identical except for the fact that DOs are taught some additional treatment methods that MDs disagree with (typically because they know little of the subject). I strongly admire the fact that many of you choose DO because it appeals to you more and you don't give a damn what anybody else has to say.
Continue striving for your goals and we shall be colleagues some day."
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21743&highlight=cedricw
It's interesting how someone with so much disdain for Caribbean students can hold the D.O. degree in such high-esteem.
Don't take this personally - I'm on your side - but this was just too funny to pass up.P.S. Are you still losing sleep over not learning OMM?
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Originally posted by ParisHilton
It's interesting how someone with so much disdain for Caribbean students can hold the D.O. degree in such high-esteem.
P.S. Are you still losing sleep over not learning OMM?
Haha...no, I'm not losing sleep over not learning OMM, but I do still find it very interesting. To answer your question though, I haven't changed my tune whatsoever. I do hold DOs in much higher regard because there is something different in osteopathic medicine that I feel is probably worth preserving. Osteopathy, while almost identical in education, offers something extra and exists to offer an additional approach to traditional medicine. This alternative aspect is good for medicine. Therefore, if someone chooses to go to a DO school, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. However, when they flee to places like ross that exist solely to squeeze money out of american students who were not capable of getting into medical school...that is a problem. Some of that I can tolerate, but when someone like this fool gets on here and says he is just as deserving as a US grad for the same residency spot, that's a crock.
Now, back to docmojo...I want you to answer my question. Are you going to lie to your patients (like you know you already have) when they ask you why you went to school at ross? Or, are you going to tell them the truth? Please explain.
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Once again I must tell you that I do not feel that I "deserve" anything. I earned my degree. My success will only raise the esteem of patients for those from my institution. By denigrating my degree you also denigrate all of the institutions that have chosen Ross graduates to fill their positions. If you are so secure in your superiority you should contact those institutions and declare their service to patients a fraud. Is that not your duty as a medical officer? Oh, and here is a link that might interest everyone.
http://www.rossmed.edu/Medical_Scho...of_the_Ye/rusm_health_care_pro_of_the_ye.html
http://www.rossmed.edu/Medical_Scho...of_the_Ye/rusm_health_care_pro_of_the_ye.html
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Yes, I will tell my patients where I went to school. Once they leave my institution they will know that I have truly earned my place. The fact that you insist on stating that I feel I "deserve" anything tells me that you feel you "deserve" things.
The common idea that success spoils people by making them vain, egotistic, and self-complacent is erroneous; on the contrary it makes them, for the most part, humble, tolerant, and kind. Failure makes people bitter and cruel.
- W. Somerset Maugham
I believe this applies to you cedricw.
The common idea that success spoils people by making them vain, egotistic, and self-complacent is erroneous; on the contrary it makes them, for the most part, humble, tolerant, and kind. Failure makes people bitter and cruel.
- W. Somerset Maugham
I believe this applies to you cedricw.
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The awareness of their individual blemishes and shortcomings inclines the frustrated to detect ill will and meanness in their fellow men. Self-contempt, however vague, sharpens our eyes for the imperfections of others. We usually strive to reveal in others the blemishes we hide in ourselves.
- Eric Hoffer
- Eric Hoffer
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C'mon, dude. Who would choose a DO school over an MD school just to learn OMM that they will hardly ever use? I've said this in other posts - if I couldn't get into an allopathic school I'd gladly go to the Carib or DO school. I don't believe in wasting time. Why do you even feel threatened by them? I don't. I will be the first to admit that many of them are smarter than me, but an allopathic grad will almost always have the edge. In the rare instance where a Carib student sneaks by, more power to her because God only knows what she had to do (or who to do) to pull it off.
An allopathic student is like having Jerry Rice or Terrell Owens as your wide receiver ? they can take your pass (on or off target) and still run it for an extra 10 yards. Even if the allopathic QB is weak, the strong allopathic team will make up for his deficiencies. An FMG is like having a CFL offense ? no matter how good of a QB he is, he'll always be limited by his inept offense. The difference is like John Elway in the '80s Broncos vs. the late '90s. The FMG QB may have posted awesome stats in the CFL but he still won?t get any respect. But, if the FMG can manage to run the ball himself and score TDs like Doug Flutie?sign him up! I?m sure every Carib school has their own version of Doug Flutie who pulls off radiology or something but most of them won?t start in the NFL unless an allopathic kid gets hurt (i.e. the scramble). And if an allopathic grad loses his spot to a Tom Brady FMG in the scramble, I guess he can always start for SUNY Buffalo the following year!
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Dude...nicely played!
All I can add is that SO MUCH barking is done by students; you will be amazed how perspectives change once you are really a doctor. I can't quantify why, but an attempt is that you will see where "the rubber meets the road", and who sucks, and who's a stud. Some people live up to the promise, some fall short, and some dark horses come up.
Oh, and, one caveat about the scramble. No one here makes a damn bit of difference, and the program directors are making the call - and does one single person here think they know more, or have more experience than a program director? De jure blocking of FMG's isn't necessary, since de facto blocking isn't occurring. PD's can take whomever the hell they want, and, since they take USMGs, USDOs, Canadians, and FMGs during the scramble, ipso facto, they're taking those they want. If they didn't want FMG's, plainly, they wouldn't take them.
All I can add is that SO MUCH barking is done by students; you will be amazed how perspectives change once you are really a doctor. I can't quantify why, but an attempt is that you will see where "the rubber meets the road", and who sucks, and who's a stud. Some people live up to the promise, some fall short, and some dark horses come up.
Oh, and, one caveat about the scramble. No one here makes a damn bit of difference, and the program directors are making the call - and does one single person here think they know more, or have more experience than a program director? De jure blocking of FMG's isn't necessary, since de facto blocking isn't occurring. PD's can take whomever the hell they want, and, since they take USMGs, USDOs, Canadians, and FMGs during the scramble, ipso facto, they're taking those they want. If they didn't want FMG's, plainly, they wouldn't take them.
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This is a good point... this is one thing that I too hold against [fellow] IMGs... the vast majority of them are in denial.
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Yep, Canadian schools are harder to get into. Personally, I'm glad I came up here, despite some people's perception that we're FMG's. I had to explain this to a couple PD's along the trail. Some PD's actually told me that the negative attitude towards FMG's prevents them from interviewing Canadian grads. I missed out on a couple interviews because of it, but who wants to train at a program that ignorant?
all of us (AMGs, DOs, USIMGs, FMGs) undoubtedly have one thing in common: to fulfill our ultimate dream of becoming physicians. due to the competitive climate of medical school admissions, there is a plethora of well-qualified applicants (i met caribbean grads who graduated harvard, georgetown, columbia, duke undergrad) who deserve to be admitted to a US med school but, unfortunately, were a victim of numbers. so WHY knock on those who share your common dream in becoming a doctor?? why do you feel so threatened by them, since you already know AMGs are looked upon more favorably anyways??? we all know the answer...
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The American system of medical education does not train enough physicians to meet the needs of this country. I am a US grad but I understand the role performed by FMGs. There are a lot of areas in this country where you and I would not want to go.Urban crime infested or rural bush infested areas. The inhabitants of the inner cities or bush require medical care also. Let's send the skin dude to behind Gods' back to treat IVDAs with HIV/AIDS and a bad rash.He would not want to go there. Who would?
Do not tell me that we should train more physicians here. It would cost way too much. I view using FMGs like adoption. You get the kid without going through a pregnancy. You can even get a kid that has been potty trained already. You could get a seven year old and by-pass the higher child care costs of infancy. Some FMGs were practicing physicians before they came here so they require less hand holding and close supervision.
It's about the money. Whatever is more cost effective will be put into practice.
Skin dude, worry about the insurance companies. They will literally take food off of your table. (Have you ever run into someone unfortunate enough to audited by an insurance company). Insurance companies will slash your reimburesment to the bone if they think that they can get away with it.
FMGs play a vital role. We get well trained physicians on the cheap.
Good luck to all of the new docs to be out there.
CambieMD
Do not tell me that we should train more physicians here. It would cost way too much. I view using FMGs like adoption. You get the kid without going through a pregnancy. You can even get a kid that has been potty trained already. You could get a seven year old and by-pass the higher child care costs of infancy. Some FMGs were practicing physicians before they came here so they require less hand holding and close supervision.
It's about the money. Whatever is more cost effective will be put into practice.
Skin dude, worry about the insurance companies. They will literally take food off of your table. (Have you ever run into someone unfortunate enough to audited by an insurance company). Insurance companies will slash your reimburesment to the bone if they think that they can get away with it.
FMGs play a vital role. We get well trained physicians on the cheap.
Good luck to all of the new docs to be out there.
CambieMD
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CedricW posted
Are you going to be honest and tell them it was because you were too dumb to get into medical school, so you had to buy your unaccredited degree for 200K? No, you will probably lie and feed them some crap about wanting to study abroad or something...I'm sure you have already used that line when you have been questioned about it, haven't you?
There are FMG's like myself that studied abroad because we wanted to do so. My father trained in a highly recognized program and practices in Mexico City, I went to medical school in Mexico City and I am finishing PGY1 in Texas, I was never to dumb to get into medical school as you quoted, I got in and have a different culture of things than yourself, not everyone thinks as you do. You should open a little your mind.
I will practice in Mexico as my father or maybe Europe (yes! I have a European Community Passport and can also speak four languages.... ) Anyhow theres people out there that are still different than you. I came to the U.S.A. for the best training and didnt choose my future career based on economical reasons: making millions in dermatology or radiology. If you do it for money good for you! your in the right country.
Were I come from medicine is a VOCATION NOT A BUSINESS.
I am 1 of 6 from 120 students in my class that are training abroad, we are the few that wanted to sacrifice family and friends for a superior professional training to be more competitive when returning to our country.
Its sad to see all the prejudices that exist, prejudices I never new existed when coming to train here, Im just glad that fortunately I have met less people like you or yomann or whatever his name is on my road.
And please be compassionate with my grammar...english is my third language
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forza roma!! lazio merda!!
Are you going to be honest and tell them it was because you were too dumb to get into medical school, so you had to buy your unaccredited degree for 200K? No, you will probably lie and feed them some crap about wanting to study abroad or something...I'm sure you have already used that line when you have been questioned about it, haven't you?
There are FMG's like myself that studied abroad because we wanted to do so. My father trained in a highly recognized program and practices in Mexico City, I went to medical school in Mexico City and I am finishing PGY1 in Texas, I was never to dumb to get into medical school as you quoted, I got in and have a different culture of things than yourself, not everyone thinks as you do. You should open a little your mind.
I will practice in Mexico as my father or maybe Europe (yes! I have a European Community Passport and can also speak four languages.... ) Anyhow theres people out there that are still different than you. I came to the U.S.A. for the best training and didnt choose my future career based on economical reasons: making millions in dermatology or radiology. If you do it for money good for you! your in the right country.
Were I come from medicine is a VOCATION NOT A BUSINESS.
I am 1 of 6 from 120 students in my class that are training abroad, we are the few that wanted to sacrifice family and friends for a superior professional training to be more competitive when returning to our country.
Its sad to see all the prejudices that exist, prejudices I never new existed when coming to train here, Im just glad that fortunately I have met less people like you or yomann or whatever his name is on my road.
And please be compassionate with my grammar...english is my third language
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forza roma!! lazio merda!!
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