For all those who think they cant make it..

[tacosrmyfav]

Lately I have seen a lot of posts about people worried about a few bad grades or a low GPA affecting their chances at getting an acceptance. While it can’t be said that a GPA less than a 3.0 will exclude you from gaining admissions, it certainly makes the process harder. So for everyone out there who feels that previous academic problems have ruined your chances to get into medical school listen up.
When I went to college I had no idea what I was doing. The short story is that I got seriously screwed up on drugs and alcohol and totally neglected academics. I remember going to a calculus exam high on cocaine. Numerous times I skipped exams all together, choosing to go out and get plastered instead; luckily I managed to do just enough to slip by without failing out of college. Later that year the police raided my apartment because my roommate stuck a gun in a person’s mouth, almost killing him. Towards the end of a 2.5 year bender I had a good friend die from drug and alcohol abuse. When he died I began to think that my life was going in a bad direction. At that point I decided that I needed to get the hell out of the situation.
I cut all ties with my friends and started a new life. I was fortunate enough to have never been caught by the police or school with anything. I spent many years in a world of drugs and violence that few on SDN could imagine. After the death of my friend I decided that I wanted to take the lessons that I had learned the hard way and help others not to make the same mistakes. At this point I decided I would go to medical school.
Needless to say I had some serious obstacles in my way, at the time my GPA was around a 2.20 and no one thought I would be able to get into medical school, NO ONE !!!!!!. Ignoring the so called experts I worked my ass off for 3.5 years, volunteering any chance I could get and being involved in all kinds of organizations and extracurricular activities. I eventually won some awards for volunteer work, all the while concentrating on what I could do in the future, not what mistakes I had made in the past. Through hard work and many many sleepless nights, I completed my pre-med classed and took the MCAT.
I have just finished interviewing for the c/o 2009. I sent out 15 applications and got 5 interviews, I have 1 acceptance (M.D., USA continental) and 4 waitlists. I guess my point is that no matter how many people tell you that you’ll never get in, always remember that there is someone out there worse off than you. If you stick with it and show the admissions committees you really have something to offer medicine you can make it to. And for those of you wondering what my grades were exactly, here you go, try not to choke :

VERIFIED GRADE POINT AVERAGES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPA calculations will appear only when your application status is Processed.

_________BCPM__________All Others__________TOTAL
_____Hours___ GPA_____Hours___GPA_____Hours_____GPA
HS
FR___9.3_____0.71____ 21.2____1.84_____ 30.5_____1.49
SO___6______1.87_____25.8____2.33 _____31.8_____2.24
JR___ 9.9____2.47_____20.5____2.25______30.4_____2.32
SR___6.6____1.85_____46.3____3.12______52.9_____2.96
PBU__70.7___3.51_____2_______4.00______72.7_____3.52
CUG__102.5__2.95___115.8_____2.57______218.3____2.75
GRAD__6_____3.85____19______3.95_______25______3.93
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TESTS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MCATs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of MCATs Taken Since April 1991:1 Next MCAT Date:
Test Date Series__VR/PS/WS/BS
0*/200*____**___10/11/N/09

To Quote FTR:

It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again because there is no effort without error and shortcomings, who knows the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows in the end the high achievement of triumph and who at worst, if he fails while daring greatly, knows his place shall never be with those timid and cold souls who know neither victory or defeat." -- Theodore Roosevelt

---

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[virilep]

holla. that's awesome man. congrats a bunch.

ps Teddy was awesome too.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I have just finished interviewing for the c/o 2009. I sent out 15 applications and got 5 interviews, I have 1 acceptance (M.D., USA continental) and 4 waitlists. I guess my point is that no matter how many people tell you that you’ll never get in, always remember that there is someone out there worse off than you. If you stick with it and show the admissions committees you really have something to offer medicine you can make it to.

So what?

you need to understand that there's a $hit load of peeps out there with $hitty #'s, etc who will never make it into med school, regardless of the crap you just said. some peeps are just not meant for it.

you are, imo, giving a false sense of hope to those who never really stood a chance.

what is the point of this post anyway? you got lucky bro. the majority of others in circumstances similar to yours will not be as lucky (generally speaking, of course--you narrowminded people might want to re-read the "generally speaking" part a couple more times). you are of the insignificant minority of applicants.


so..., which SND'er wants to be the first to reveal ignorance and argue against this by using a single personal account?

 

[45408]

For all those who think they cant make it..

they probably can't.

 

[Haybrant]

So what?

you need to understand that there's a $hit load of peeps out there with $hitty #'s, etc who will never make it into med school, regardless of the crap you just said. some peeps are just not meant for it.

you are, imo, giving a false sense of hope to those who never really stood a chance.

what is the point of this post anyway? you got lucky bro. the majority of others in circumstances similar to yours will not be as lucky (generally speaking, of course--you narrowminded people might want to re-read the "generally speaking" part a couple more times). you are of the insignificant minority of applicants.


so..., which SND'er wants to be the first to reveal ignorance and argue against this by using a single personal account?

this is a bs post and should be ignored; stories like this do give people an extra hope and can make a difference; you'll certainly find this out when you see chronic patients in medicine. My boss saw a patient who ran a marathon after a left lung pneuomonectomy and sometimes he'll tell other patients about that person; it doesnt mean he is giving them false hope and if they dont quite pull through their battle it doesnt mean they have failed.

and more importantly, to call the op's story luck really devalues what he/she accomplished. I dont know what you define as luck, but getting 5 interviews doesnt sound like it, and turning ones life around certainly doesnt sound like it. It is precisely these types of stories that do turn it around for people.

edit: im just apalled that you would react as such

 

[OSUdoc08]

Lately I have seen a lot of posts about people worried about a few bad grades or a low GPA affecting their chances at getting an acceptance. While it can’t be said that a GPA less than a 3.0 will exclude you from gaining admissions, it certainly makes the process harder. So for everyone out there who feels that previous academic problems have ruined your chances to get into medical school listen up.
When I went to college I had no idea what I was doing. The short story is that I got seriously screwed up on drugs and alcohol and totally neglected academics. I remember going to a calculus exam high on cocaine. Numerous times I skipped exams all together, choosing to go out and get plastered instead; luckily I managed to do just enough to slip by without failing out of college. Later that year the police raided my apartment because my roommate stuck a gun in a person’s mouth, almost killing him. Towards the end of a 2.5 year bender I had a good friend die from drug and alcohol abuse. When he died I began to think that my life was going in a bad direction. At that point I decided that I needed to get the hell out of the situation.
I cut all ties with my friends and started a new life. I was fortunate enough to have never been caught by the police or school with anything. I spent many years in a world of drugs and violence that few on SDN could imagine. After the death of my friend I decided that I wanted to take the lessons that I had learned the hard way and help others not to make the same mistakes. At this point I decided I would go to medical school.
Needless to say I had some serious obstacles in my way, at the time my GPA was around a 2.20 and no one thought I would be able to get into medical school, NO ONE !!!!!!. Ignoring the so called experts I worked my ass off for 3.5 years, volunteering any chance I could get and being involved in all kinds of organizations and extracurricular activities. I eventually won some awards for volunteer work, all the while concentrating on what I could do in the future, not what mistakes I had made in the past. Through hard work and many many sleepless nights, I completed my pre-med classed and took the MCAT.
I have just finished interviewing for the c/o 2009. I sent out 15 applications and got 5 interviews, I have 1 acceptance (M.D., USA continental) and 4 waitlists. I guess my point is that no matter how many people tell you that you’ll never get in, always remember that there is someone out there worse off than you. If you stick with it and show the admissions committees you really have something to offer medicine you can make it to. And for those of you wondering what my grades were exactly, here you go, try not to choke :

VERIFIED GRADE POINT AVERAGES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPA calculations will appear only when your application status is Processed.

_________BCPM__________All Others__________TOTAL
_____Hours___ GPA_____Hours___GPA_____Hours_____GPA
HS
FR___9.3_____0.71____ 21.2____1.84_____ 30.5_____1.49
SO___6______1.87_____25.8____2.33 _____31.8_____2.24
JR___ 9.9____2.47_____20.5____2.25______30.4_____2.32
SR___6.6____1.85_____46.3____3.12______52.9_____2.96
PBU__70.7___3.51_____2_______4.00______72.7_____3.52
CUG__102.5__2.95___115.8_____2.57______218.3____2.75
GRAD__6_____3.85____19______3.95_______25______3.93
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TESTS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MCATs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of MCATs Taken Since April 1991:1 Next MCAT Date:
Test Date Series__VR/PS/WS/BS
0*/200*____**___10/11/N/09

To Quote FTR:

It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again because there is no effort without error and shortcomings, who knows the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows in the end the high achievement of triumph and who at worst, if he fails while daring greatly, knows his place shall never be with those timid and cold souls who know neither victory or defeat." -- Theodore Roosevelt

you had to do post-bacc and grad school to make up for it

that doesn't really help those undergrad students who are applying this round

congrats to your for getting accepted however---what school was it?

 

[Dr2010]

wow...i have not seen so much pessimism and negativity targeted at one person in a long time.

those of you who took down the OP should understand that by telling us his story he is not neccessarily advocating that everyone who is in a bad spot currently will have the same success as he, in fact, he is only an example of when not to give up

OSU doc you are seeing the small picture here, this is a pre-med forum as you know...not everyone here is currently applying to med school..so what the OP had to do post bacc, maybe other ppl need to hear this type of story to get their act together before they make any more mistakes.

Slippery Pete who do you think you are that you can lambast the OP that way...false hope? what do you know about hope and what it takes to turn someone's life around...if you are critical of the OP's life choices perhaps you should be a little forgiving and understand we all make mistakes.

I personally am encouraged by the OP's account, I am rational enough to know that if work hard enough I too can achieve my goals.

To the OP congrats man.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I just want to second what taco said. I too had an... unfortunate... cum GPA undergrad, and was still able to make it into a US MD school.

Yes, it takes some postbacc/grad work to show an upward trend in your grades. Yes, you need to have a good MCAT. Yes, you need to apply to LOTS of places because many schools will laugh your low-GPA app right into the trashcan. But, it can be done. Despite what lots of SDN posters would have you believe

Best thing of all: once you're in med school, you're starting from a clean slate. Residency committees couldn't care less what your undergrad GPA was, yours or anyone else's. Now, it's all about how you spend the next four years, in terms of honors, research, recs, and of course your boards.

 

[eyeful]

are you URM?

 

[tacosrmyfav]

are you URM?

Nope, white male mid 20's.

In response to OSUdoc08
I see your point but I was just trying to motivate people to stick with it. As far as the school, I would like to keep that private b/c of the cut throat nature of some medical students, I am sure you understand.

In response to Slippery Pete
Slippery Pete, I don’t understand your angst. Were those that encouraged me to pursue a career in medicine irresponsible? According to you I “never really stood a chance” either, but in 2009 you can call me Dr. Never Really Stood a Chance.

 

[DoctorV09]

Congrats Taco...whatever everyone else says doesn't matter anyways...in 2009, you will be a doctor seriously, i don't even know you and i'm proud of you because anyone who can turn their **** around like that deserves a pat on the back

 

[Homer Doughnuts]

you got lucky bro. the majority of others in circumstances similar to yours will not be as lucky

You know, maybe I would agree that the OP got lucky except that he/she had 5 interviews. That sounds a lot less like luck, and more like a person quiet a few medical schools are interested in despite some past problems. I give Taco props, and who are you Slippery Pete to say that the OP is giving anyone a false sense of hope. People in the OP's situation probably do a lot less hoping and a whole lot more working which seems to have paid off, quit hating Slippery Pete, quit hating.

 

[uptoolate]

I just want to second what taco said. I too had an... unfortunate... cum GPA undergrad, and was still able to make it into a US MD school.
QUOTE]

Me too- and I am always happy to see posts like these because I needed to hear something hopeful as I was trying to get up the courage to start going through the application process.

 

[riceman04]

are you URM?

HAAAAAAAAAA, you stupid B*T*H!
You are just like the typical person to assume that he is an underrepresented minority.

 

[Homer Doughnuts]

HAAAAAAAAAA, you stupid B*T*H!
You are just like the typical person to assume that he is an underrepresented minority.

OUCH , while it is typical thats a bit harsh.

 

[abcxyz0123]

hm.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Hey.

I am with Homer Doughnuts on this, Quit Hatin'!

What difference does it make if you gotta take more undergrad classes? What difference does it make if you gotta do a post-bacc? What difference does it make if you gotta go to grad school?

The point is if you want to be a doc and you are sitting on a mountain of crappy numbers, You GOTTA WORK YOUR BUTT OFF!! Nobody's gonna hand it to you, so GET TO WORK!

Unless your daddy builds a new science building at HAVAD, along with good numbers, we all need a dash of luck, good fortune,good karma, prayers', God's blessing, etc, dring this process....

I am encouraged when I hear stories like this. It gives you a boost. That hard work can pay off.

For some people this is a marathon, not a sprint. This story is a squirt of Gatorade or a Powerbar at the 13th mile!!!

Big Up TACO! WTG!

 

[JCoyote1]

Taco, you the man bro. I did not personally have all the problems you had but I grew up around them. My mom is a recovering A and I've been part of the program for the last 15 years or so. I was babysat for in meetings and saw stories like this every day. Saw people turn their lives around everyday. It gives hope not only to pre-meds and docs but to anyone who is in tough times and needs a pic me up. Props to you.

for the reply from V, nice pessimistic view on life bro. Hope you find a finger in your Wendy's chili

 

[Law2Doc]

Hope you find a finger in your Wendy's chili

I hope I do too -- that emotional distress suit will be worth a ton!
Congrats to the OP. It goes to show that if you really want to be a doctor and have the drive and are willing to put in the time (sometimes many years) even after a shaky start, you can still get there.

 

[PBMaxx]

Wow. That is amazing. If you're not a troll, I say excellent 180. As for the troll thing, I say innocent until proven guilty, so Kudos to you Taco.

My $0.02: There are probably some haters/gunners out there who are horribly jealous b/c you have killer personal statement and interview material. We are a truly whacky bunch!!! And from what I understand, it only gets better from here on.

 

[AmateurChef]

wow...i have not seen so much pessimism and negativity targeted at one person in a long time.

To the OP congrats man.

My sentiments are the same. Cheers to the OP. To the rest of you...please realize that your negativity doesn't do anyone any good. What's wrong with encouraging people who want to be doctors?

 

[Tiagao]

All I have to say is it is not the road but the destination that is important. Props Taco!

 

[Fusion]

...but in 2009 you can call me Dr. Never Really Stood a Chance.

Enough said.

Congratulations taco. It really says a lot about a person to not only turn their life around, but to also pursue their dreams despite adversity and a seemingly endless stream of pessimism, some of which you are evidently still experiencing - even after getting admitted to med school! Thank you for sharing your story, as I am sure it gives many ppl hope. For those of you who think that taco got lucky in getting admitted, I wholeheartedly disagree. A strong grad GPA, a solid MCAT, and an interesting life story were enough for med schools to give this guy a chance. Why shouldn't it be enough for you?

 

[sunnyjohn]

Hey Taco,

Do you have an MD applicant profile?

Where did you apply/interview/accept?

What did you do your grad work in?

Where did you do your post bacc?


( And of course to tick off the haters..)
Did you go Ivy or one of the big name schools or did you go to a state school?

Did you take any classes at comnmunity college or 2-year?


Again congrats!

 

[tacosrmyfav]

Hey Taco,

Do you have an MD applicant profile?

Where did you apply/interview/accept?

What did you do your grad work in?

Where did you do your post bacc?


( And of course to tick off the haters..)
Did you go Ivy or one of the big name schools or did you go to a state school?

Did you take any classes at comnmunity college or 2-year?


Again congrats!

I do not have an MD applicant profile. Because I posted my grades / MCAT and life story on SDN I would prefer not to disclose where I applied or was accepted. I am concerned that if I disclose this information a student at my school may figure out who I am and use it against me. I am mostly speaking of my past drug and ETOH use which the admissions people definitely do not know about. I really wish I could tell you more but I fear that a few ill-intentioned people would use this information for their own personal gain at my expense.
As far as my post bacc work I graduated from my state undergrad institution with a B.A. and then re-enrolled as a premed student directly after graduation. It took about 1.5 years for me to fulfill all the science requirements full time I subsequently earned a B.S. in Biology. My graduate work is a Master of Science concentrating on the biological basis of disease transmissions and prevention. I do a lot of infectious disease stuff.
Oh I almost forgot, I did not take any community college classes or 2 year program classes. I did however complete 2 years of organic chemistry in an 8 week compression course. That’s how I finished my B.S. so fast.
I really wish I could tell you all more but I just don’t trust that people are altruistic in their intentions. Good luck to all and stick with it.

 

[drguy22]

kudos to you taco. dont worry bout other peeps say...u worked hard at it...you made a mistake, you fixed it, now enjoy the rewards of your hard work. Everyone makes mistakes...the key is that you learned from it.

 

[nico05]

To the OP: congrats thats awesome

To the rest (mainly the next two who felt it necessary to be rude) you've failed to read the entire post therefore missing the point...I'll quote the original quote, maybe if it's isolated it'll be easier to comprehend... "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better".

Best of luck to all.

 

[Kazema]

are you URM?

It's funny, whenever this question is asked here the answer is almost always no.

It's time to look further than the URM card for reasons you haven't been accepted, people.

 

[45408]

HAAAAAAAAAA, you stupid B*T*H!
You are just like the typical person to assume that he is an underrepresented minority.

Haha! I'm using a bunch of ****ing asterisks to say nasty **** on the intarweb!

It was a valid question.

 

[TanyaKatya]

Congratulations Taco.

It takes strength of character and persistance for one to learn from their mistakes and accomplish their goals. The fact that you are willing to share your experience with us indicates that you will make an exceptional doctor.

Wishing you the best in med school.

 

[mitawa]

That was a very uplifting story. Hard work and determination never hurt!

 

[Ross434]

*OMG OMG OMG* *you're going to be a doctor

 

[tacosrmyfav]

*OMG OMG OMG* *you're going to be a doctor

Yeah, I understand your hesitation but I earned it. If anything I had to work harder than the average pre-med to get in. Well I’m sure you will get over the shock eventually but remember I just might be your doctor some day .

 

[DOUBLEDIGITSII]

So what?

you need to understand that there's a $hit load of peeps out there with $hitty #'s, etc who will never make it into med school, regardless of the crap you just said. some peeps are just not meant for it.

you are, imo, giving a false sense of hope to those who never really stood a chance.

what is the point of this post anyway? you got lucky bro. the majority of others in circumstances similar to yours will not be as lucky (generally speaking, of course--you narrowminded people might want to re-read the "generally speaking" part a couple more times). you are of the insignificant minority of applicants.


so..., which SND'er wants to be the first to reveal ignorance and argue against this by using a single personal account?

You and "TheProwler" are heartless and you do NOT deserve the privilege to become doctors.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

Wow, I hope to God that you pessimists out there will never be my family’s physicians. It takes more than good numbers to be a good doctor and if you really feel that way about taco’s accomplishments, I hope you fail. Taco deserves it much more than you do. Congrats Taco, I wish you the best. You are an inspiration to all.

As for the URM comment, I am a minority student and I have been working just as hard as you other gunner SDNers. Do not assume that those with lower than average stats are necessarily UMR because we also work hard for what we accomplish. Besides, this is virtually the only time in my life when being African American has been an advantage! Let me have my moment d*mn it!

 

[CanIMakeIt]

kudos to you taco. don't worry bout other peeps say...u worked hard at it...you made a mistake, you fixed it, now enjoy the rewards of your hard work. Everyone makes mistakes...the key is that you learned from it.

Exactly my thoughts...you worked hard for it and you have earned it. Congratulations. If only I could show this story to the kids in my neighborhood who think that dropping out of school and selling drugs is the way to go. I was successful in nagging one of them back to school though...hopefully he will finish his High school and go on to make something of his life....that's why I said it is important for people to know that "Being a human is all about getting back up on your feet once you fall" and this feeling/motivation to succeed becomes stronger if people see that others have fallen and then succeeded in life.

Congratulations once again and good luck for your future life.

 

[stoleyerscrubz]

if the OP was a URM then this thread would have turned into a "you took my seat thread"?



Good luck Taco. I'm glad you are cautious about sharing more about yourself because when you are doing well the haters will say "he used to be an addict, how can he be a good doctor" and when the chips are down they will say "I told you he was not good enough to be here"...You have a clean slate. Good luck!

 

[stoleyerscrubz]

I know a lot of people who could use a story like this as well.

If only I could show this story to the kids in my neighborhood who think that dropping out of school and selling drugs is the way to go. I was successful in nagging one of them back to school though...

 

[liverotcod]

My boss saw a patient who ran a marathon after a left lung pneuomonectomy

In the Richmond Marathon last year, I finished a couple minutes ahead of a guy who ran it a year after receiving a double lung transplant. Amazing stuff. I think inspirational stories are very, very important. At the same time, though, it's important not to answer a poster who says "I have a 3.0 GPA and 25 MCAT--what are my chances" with anything but "Not so good. You have a long road ahead of you."

Like the OP no doubt would, I can testify from my own experience that recovering from significant academic adversity is costly in dollars, time and emotional strength. It is crucial to communicate that it will be difficult and may not be worth it. Many turn to medical school, despite poor academic backgrounds, as if they don't realize that there are ways other than medicine to have important, valuable careers. I may have been one of those people at one point; I have grown up since.

 

[liverotcod]

I am mostly speaking of my past drug and ETOH use which the admissions people definitely do not know about.

That's a mistake in my opinion. It is never, never good to have skeletons hanging around in your closet. If you are really taking responsibility for the mistakes in your past, then there's nothing to hide. I mean this both from the point of view of personal ethics and from the "cover your ass" perspective.

 

[Peterock]

I find nothing motivational about the OP's story.
I would not want someone with the OP's background to be my doctor or my family's. Period. I do not know what the OP's personal story for abusing drugs and alcohol, but I do not respect anyone for defiling their body.

My father and brother both have extensive histories with alcohol and drugs, and overcoming an OPTIONAL skeleton is not something I respect. My brother is a multiple felon who made quite a bit of money selling drugs and had a good time using them too. I seriously WONDER HOW YOU COULD HAVE PAID FOR COLLEGE unless 1) your parents were giving you money 2) you were selling drugs.

People who are in car wrecks that are not their fault or who suffer from diseases that are beyond their control, yet persevere anyway, are the ones we should admire. Not people who choose to take substances that hurt themselves and who decide to give into apathy. Do not act as if you're motivational figure for people with low numbers or anyone else.

There are plenty of people on SDN (and in life) who have really gone through some horrific **** through no fault of their own and keep plugging away.

If you have some legitimate challenges, that I don't know about. Fine. I'll retract the statements, but I doubt it. You may be inspirational for some, but to me, I think you just steal the respect from people who have kept their nose's clean and gone through true hardships.

 

[dopaminophile]

I find nothing motivational about the OP's story.
I would not want someone with the OP's background to be my doctor or my family's. Period. I do not know what the OP's personal story for abusing drugs and alcohol, but I do not respect anyone for defiling their body.

My father and brother both have extensive histories with alcohol and drugs, and overcoming an OPTIONAL skeleton is not something I respect. My brother is a multiple felon who made quite a bit of money selling drugs and had a good time using them too. I seriously WONDER HOW YOU COULD HAVE PAID FOR COLLEGE unless 1) your parents were giving you money 2) you were selling drugs.

People who are in car wrecks that are not their fault or who suffer from diseases that are beyond their control, yet persevere anyway, are the ones we should admire. Not people who choose to take substances that hurt themselves and who decide to give into apathy. Do not act as if you're motivational figure for people with low numbers or anyone else.

There are plenty of people on SDN (and in life) who have really gone through some horrific **** through no fault of their own and keep plugging away.

If you have some legitimate challenges, that I don't know about. Fine. I'll retract the statements, but I doubt it. You may be inspirational for some, but to me, I think you just steal the respect from people who have kept their nose's clean and gone through true hardships.

People are fallible, they make mistakes, good people do bad things, and everybody has and will do it in the future. It's what makes us human. Our quality comes from how we arise from those mistakes. While I didn't do the things the OP did, I certainly find inspiration from the fact that he accepted those mistakes as part of who he is, he learned from them, and he rose above them. Our future patient base will often be good people who have made terrible mistakes and we need to have empathy for that. For myself and my family, I certainly don't want a robot doctor that hasn't ever done anything he/she's not proud of. I definitely don't want someone that can't empathize with those of us who have done stupid things. I want someone like the OP to be my kid's doctor, who tries not to have, but can relate to the imperfections that make us human. Mistakes based in a decision (like your father's, your brother's, and the OPs) are as much a part of the natural human condition as are physical diseases. Drug addicts deserve the same amount of empathy as do trauma victims. Can we look beyond the transgretions of repeat offenders? Probably not always. But we owe it to our patients and ourselves to try.

Departing slightly from my attack on the more judgemental of you, this whole notion of growing from screw-ups is extremely important to the major problem of medical errors. Good doctors screw up. Those that make the best doctors recognize their mistakes and try to learn from them and to grow from them. We will all occassionally do profoundly stupid, terribly dangerous things in our careers. If we accept that things will happen, we can try to predict, prevent, and minimalize them.

 

[1Path]

That's a mistake in my opinion. It is never, never good to have skeletons hanging around in your closet. If you are really taking responsibility for the mistakes in your past, then there's nothing to hide. I mean this both from the point of view of personal ethics and from the "cover your ass" perspective.

Yeah, if the OP were a URM, this would DEFINITELY be an affrimative action/ you took my seat thread!

So the only people who should be allowed to become doctors are those who have never been high or drunk? Well I'd guess that as of now, 90% of all seats in med school are now empty!

 

[liverotcod]

Yeah, if the OP were a URM, this would DEFINITELY be an affrimative action/ you took my seat thread!

So the only people who should be allowed to become doctors are those who have never been high or drunk?

I think you misread what I posted. I was encouraging the OP to be up front about his former mistakes, rather than conceal them. That way, you get bit right away rather than waiting for them to bite you later on.

For the record, I applied to 30 schools this past cycle with a history of alcoholism and a DUI, clearly communicated in my record. I have 7 acceptances.

 

[tacosrmyfav]

I find nothing motivational about the OP's story.
I would not want someone with the OP's background to be my doctor or my family's. Period. I do not know what the OP's personal story for abusing drugs and alcohol, but I do not respect anyone for defiling their body.

My father and brother both have extensive histories with alcohol and drugs, and overcoming an OPTIONAL skeleton is not something I respect. My brother is a multiple felon who made quite a bit of money selling drugs and had a good time using them too. I seriously WONDER HOW YOU COULD HAVE PAID FOR COLLEGE unless 1) your parents were giving you money 2) you were selling drugs.

People who are in car wrecks that are not their fault or who suffer from diseases that are beyond their control, yet persevere anyway, are the ones we should admire. Not people who choose to take substances that hurt themselves and who decide to give into apathy. Do not act as if you're motivational figure for people with low numbers or anyone else.

There are plenty of people on SDN (and in life) who have really gone through some horrific **** through no fault of their own and keep plugging away.

If you have some legitimate challenges, that I don't know about. Fine. I'll retract the statements, but I doubt it. You may be inspirational for some, but to me, I think you just steal the respect from people who have kept their nose's clean and gone through true hardships.

I paid for college w/ student loans and a few jobs. I’m sorry about you family’s problems but I think overcoming an addiction is a legitimate challenge. I think that is a narrow minded view of a very complicated problem.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I paid for college w/ student loans and a few jobs. I’m sorry about you family’s problems but I think overcoming an addiction is a legitimate challenge. I think that is a narrow minded view of a very complicated problem.

... and one that doctors deal with all the time in their patients. Simply yelling at the addict patient that they suck for "defiling their body" and they "brought it on themselves" is probably not the most effective method of treatment for a real doctor who has real patients.

Let me guess, Peterock. You're hoping to go into dermatology?

 

[liverotcod]

I paid for college w/ student loans and a few jobs. I’m sorry about you family’s problems but I think overcoming an addiction is a legitimate challenge. I think that is a narrow minded view of a very complicated problem.

Addiction is a disease that has a choice component: that is, you decide to start the addictive behavior, but the disease rapidly decreases your ability to make further rational decisions.

Typically, the addictive behavior is one that is safe for the vast majority of people, which makes it hard to predict the risk. If I had had addiction in my family, I might have made different choices. Now that I know my addictive tendencies, I'm very careful around activities that tend to be addictive: I don't gamble, for example. But I'm still at greater risk.

Peterock, your post was pretty insensitive, but I suspect you're doing a little trolling, so you're forgiven.

 

[Clin_Epi]

Being an immigrant to North America but living here for approx. 10 years I always find a couple of things amazing:

1) Statements such as "Good doctors screw up"...if they screw up doesn't it mean they are bad? Or "Good people do bad things"...aren't those two conditions mutually exclusive??? Sorry, it just might be that English is the 3rd language I had to learn...

2) Why do North Americans always feel so much pity for drug users, specifically little rich spoiled brats? (Not necessarily the original poster) These people choose to screw themselves over AND more importantly they seriously screw other people's lives as well. The fact that they clean themselves up means they have just rejoined the rest of society, not inspirational. They are a warning.

3) The original poster was seriously lucky. No not for getting into medical school but for never being busted...

4) Original Poster - How did you afford all those drugs and booze? On the floor of the apartment building I live in there is a drug dealer. I know for a fact that drugs cost some serious money and not paying on time has PENALTIES...

When you were a full time student...with no job (if you couldn't make it to an exam I assume you didn't work)...and lived in your own apartment (you had to pay rent...) How did you afford it? If your parents or crime paid for everything, then you represent everything I hate. Yes, yes I know it is politically incorrect etc.

Your story is not inspirational. It actually makes me angry that you got away with so much BS when there are people that face TRUE obstacles.

Want inspiration...here is one of my friends: 1) Father has AIDS, 2) Brother has MS 3) He was working since the age of 16... Currently has 3 jobs (1 full time and 2 part time)...he finally has a chance to apply to medical school in his 30's because he was responsible enough to ensure a stable (at least financially) family situation.

 

[tacosrmyfav]

4) Original Poster - How did you afford all those drugs and booze? On the floor of the apartment building I live in there is a drug dealer. I know for a fact that drugs cost some serious money and not paying on time has PENALTIES...

When you were a full time student...with no job (if you couldn't make it to an exam I assume you didn't work)...and lived in your own apartment (you had to pay rent...) How did you afford it? If your parents or crime paid for everything, then you represent everything I hate. Yes, yes I know it is politically incorrect etc.

I worked all through college, full time student or not. i managed an apartment complex ( a bit ghetto though) so I did not have to pay rent or utilities. As far as buying booze, another American term you need to learn is credit card.

 

[liverotcod]

1) Statements such as "Good doctors screw up"...if they screw up doesn't it mean they are bad? Or "Good people do bad things"...aren't those two conditions mutually exclusive??? Sorry, it just might be that English is the 3rd language I had to learn...

Translation: all people make mistakes. Have you never?

2) Why do North Americans always feel so much pity for drug users, specifically little rich spoiled brats? (Not necessarily the original poster) These people choose to screw themselves over AND more importantly they seriously screw other people's lives as well. The fact that they clean themselves up means they have just rejoined the rest of society, not inspirational. They are a warning.

Whether or not you believe the disease theory of addiction, can you admit that the act of recovery is challenging? You need not be inspired by the individual to be inspired by the act of overcoming an obstacle, even if you believe that obstacle self-induced. Are not the feats of great athletes inspirational, even though they might easily avoid the pain of training by simply deciding not to compete?

3) The original poster was seriously lucky. No not for getting into medical school but for never being busted...

It's fairly easy to avoid getting busted as a user or low-level dealer, I should think. Higher level dealers are more at risk as they make bigger targets for law enforcement.

4) Original Poster - How did you afford all those drugs and booze? On the floor of the apartment building I live in there is a drug dealer. I know for a fact that drugs cost some serious money and not paying on time has PENALTIES...

When you were a full time student...with no job (if you couldn't make it to an exam I assume you didn't work)...and lived in your own apartment (you had to pay rent...) How did you afford it? If your parents or crime paid for everything, then you represent everything I hate. Yes, yes I know it is politically incorrect etc.

I don't agree with your tone, but the essence of this argument is right, and what causes me the most pain and guilt about my own situation. In my last semster as a drunk, for example, my parents and the student loan people funded me to sit in my dorm room and get drunk every day. I actually went to a part time job to pay for my booze. There's no excuse for this behavior, and I grew to hate myself for it, too. In your last paragraph, you describe a very inspirational situation. But to give an example of how statements like yours and Peterock's might be hurtful, let's imagine the following responses:

Want inspiration...here is one of my friends: 1) Father has AIDS, 2) Brother has MS 3) He was working since the age of 16... Currently has 3 jobs (1 full time and 2 part time)...he finally has a chance to apply to medical school in his 30's because he was responsible enough to ensure a stable (at least financially) family situation.

Please don't quote this out of context, because I'm writing only to make a point:
1) How did he get AIDS?
2) If his brother has MS, he's at higher risk, right? Why should our educational system waste a seat at med school on someone who is less likely to be able to perform the job?
3) He must not be all that smart if it takes 3 jobs to be financially stable.

See what I mean? I don't believe any of the crap I just wrote, and don't even know if number 2) is true. It's possible to disagree without being hurtful, so please do so.