for anyone who has gone through interning...

[Jean Valjean]

Just fininished reading Intern Blues: The Private Ordeals of 3 Young Doctors by Robert Marion, M.D. Basically a fascinating journal kept by three ped interns for a year. The intern experience described was excruciating! At times conditions were horrendous - on call every third night. The experience took place in '85/'86. The author made some commentary about the need for reform. Wondering if since '86 there has been any reform. Is internship still nearly inhuman???

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[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by Jean Valjean:
•Just fininished reading Intern Blues: The Private Ordeals of 3 Young Doctors by Robert Marion, M.D. Basically a fascinating journal kept by three ped interns for a year. The intern experience described was excruciating! At times conditions were horrendous - on call every third night. The experience took place in '85/'86. The author made some commentary about the need for reform. Wondering if since '86 there has been any reform. Is internship still nearly inhuman???•

Hmmm...try call every other night. Now THAT'S excrutiating.

Its been awhile since I've read Marion's book and some reforms have been made, but call q3 is pretty standard (especially at academic programs) and the hours worked long. NY was the first state to institute reforms stating that residents may work no more than 80 hours per week (averaged over 2 weeks) but most residents there say the rules just aren't enforced.

We've discussed this issue at length; I suggest you might find some of the threads in the Roations and Residency Forum of interest to you. A search will find them for you.
BTW, I'll move this over to Rotations and Residencies for ya.

 

[AJM]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox:
•Hmmm...try call every other night. Now THAT'S excrutiating.

Its been awhile since I've read Marion's book and some reforms have been made, but call q3 is pretty standard (especially at academic programs) and the hours worked long. •

Even as a med student, a few of our rotations are q3 call -- I'm going to be doing that in the MICU next month. q3 is much better than q2 call, which they (including the med student on) do in the SICU here.

I haven't read the book though -- maybe I should. Although I haven't even been able to get through The House of God -- it's just way to cynical for me!

 

[fourthyr]

NY schools pay a fine for having residents working more than 80 hrs. It's standard for surgery programs. You simply can't learn by working less than 80 hours/wk. q3's standard, and occ. q2 pops up. It's painful cuz you're not home, but it's cool if your co-workers are fun.

 

[EricCSU]

Originally posted by Jean Valjean:
•Just fininished reading Intern Blues: The Private Ordeals of 3 Young Doctors by Robert Marion, M.D. Basically a fascinating journal kept by three ped interns for a year. The intern experience described was excruciating! At times conditions were horrendous - on call every third night. The experience took place in '85/'86. The author made some commentary about the need for reform. Wondering if since '86 there has been any reform. Is internship still nearly inhuman???•

Marion did a less successful follow-up to that book about interns around '94 and '95. It's called "Rotations" and you can find it at half.com for about $3.

Eric

 

[PimplePopperMD]

Originally posted by fourthyr:
•. You simply can't learn by working less than 80 hours/wk. .•

Oh, how I disagree. I would venture to state that I am learning LESS because I'm working 100 hrs/week. What does it mean? It means that I have no time to read. Little time to sleep. And precious few hours per week to hang out with friends. (friends?!)

Not to mention feeling generally miserable.

Without reading, I won't learn much. It is SO very service dependent, and I'm stuck with a bunch of vasculopaths. So how will I pass miniboards? And more importantly, how will I exit this rotation, which will be my ONLY surgery rotation (if I have anything to say!) having learned what is important for the non-surgeon to know?

The hours don't have to be so ridiculous for us to learn. In fact, it's counter-productive this way. It's thinking like yours, along with the promise of free labor, which potentiates these atrocious living/working/learning conditions.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I whole-heartedly agree PimplePopperMD. I have not had a moment to read and given the fact that most of my long hours are NOT spent learning boards-useful information but rather scutwork, you can be darned sure I'm a bit frightened about the ABSITE.

Are the exams going to ask me if its ok to give the post-op patient some Phernergan? Probably not. But that's what I spend my days doing - managing TPN, IVF, pain control etc. All important issues and certainly some questions will be asked. But its a shame I don't have much time to actually read about the diseases and their surgical management. Working less hours a week would be a way to accomplish this obviously.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by fourthyr:
•NY schools pay a fine for having residents working more than 80 hrs. It's standard for surgery programs. You simply can't learn by working less than 80 hours/wk. q3's standard, and occ. q2 pops up. It's painful cuz you're not home, but it's cool if your co-workers are fun.•

If thats true, then they need to increase the fines until it becomes painful for the med schools to pay.

I guarantee you, once they start getting hit up with $30,000 fines PER med student overworked, they'll change their tune.

Besides, most people are incapable of learning stuff when they've been awake the last 40 hours.

 

[platinumdoc]

I don't recall much about how I survived the internship year but for me, q3 was standard for us. I don't even recall how I was able to manage spending time with my newlywed wife, rotating through vascular surgery, and doing two research presentations in the same month. I think I slept 2 1/2 hours a night.

Check out the book, 'House of God'.