For MD PhD apps, how much does publication status matter?

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DopamineNYC

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Of course, "accepted/in print" would probably trump all else but below that,
how much of a difference is there between the other notations (in preparation, submitted, in revision...)?

Thanks!
 
There's no way for anyone to answer this question. The only things we know are that:

A) you don't need a publication to be competitive
And
B) a publication which you contributed a lot to personally is valuable because of your contribution, the publication itself has little intrinsic worth

Your ability to present your work and your contribution are the most valuable part, the publication is like a "certificate of authenticity" which will help your app but a publication only "exists" until it is accepted, anyone can list "submitted" on a résumé.
 
Agree with @Lucca. My take is if the article is fully published (i.e. you can search for it on pubmed) include it on the CV. If it's anywhere in the publication pipeline other than fully published, don't include it - I had no publication at the time of applying and it didn't stop me.
 
"In preparation" doesn't mean much of anything, same goes with "submitted". In revision, or accepted pending revisions, is a little bit better I suppose.
 
"In preparation" doesn't mean much of anything, same goes with "submitted". In revision, or accepted pending revisions, is a little bit better I suppose.
+1

Submitted/in preparation means nothing, since your article could still be rejected. Personally I think it's worth it to include any variation of "Accepted" under your publications entry. Otherwise, you can mention that you are preparing or have submitted a manuscript in the entry for that research project on the significant research essay. I wouldn't include these in your publication list, but they at least show productivity for that given lab.

And as others have said, you don't need a publication to get accepted. They help but are not a necessity.
 
Insofar as "in preparation" is concerned, one of the graduate students in my lab said it best: "Isn't a paper always in preparation? If not, what is any of this for?"

I perceive "in preparation" as more than that. To have a paper in preparation means that you've obtained enough meaningful data to prepare a manuscript. Otherwise, it's mostly just planning/data collection in progress.
 
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I perceive "in preparation" as more than that. To have a paper in preparation means that you've obtained enough meaningful data to prepare a manuscript. Otherwise, it's mostly just planning/data collection in progress.

I was trying to get at the idea that in terms of authenticity having enough data to put prepare a paper and just collecting data are both equally meaningless as lines on a resume for the purposes of a medical school application. The grad student was joking about how the only "point" of science is publishing and if you are doing something that you dont originally aim to be "publishable" then what, exactly, are you doing?
 
I was trying to get at the idea that in terms of authenticity having enough data to put prepare a paper and just collecting data are both equally meaningless as lines on a resume for the purposes of a medical school application. The grad student was joking about how the only "point" of science is publishing and if you are doing something that you dont originally aim to be "publishable" then what, exactly, are you doing?

My PI would call that "wasting time"
 
I perceive "in preparation" as more than that. To have a paper in preparation means that you've obtained enough meaningful data to prepare a manuscript. Otherwise, it's mostly just planning/data collection in progress.

I was trying to get at the idea that in terms of authenticity having enough data to put prepare a paper and just collecting data are both equally meaningless as lines on a resume for the purposes of a medical school application. The grad student was joking about how the only "point" of science is publishing and if you are doing something that you dont originally aim to be "publishable" then what, exactly, are you doing?

To be fair, the process of trying to acquire publishable data vs. actually having done so to the point where a manuscript can be written is a significant difference, the former sometimes spanning years and not necessarily being indicative of productivity level and the latter indicating that you actually produced something worthwhile. In that respect there definitely is a difference between data acquisition and manuscript preparation. I'd still hold off on even mentioning this until it is submitted, though, and even then only as an afterthought in the research entry, not in publications.
 
I had a manuscript that was in revisions when I applied. The reviewers/editors had shown strong interest so we were relatively confident it would be accepted with the revisions. I put it on my app as "in final revisions." When it was eventually accepted I sent updates to all schools and attached a copy of the abstract. I don't know how much it contributed to my interview invites but my pubs were discussed at almost every interview.

I agree you should not put anything "in preparation" or "submitted" because that has no value. If it has gone past first review that's a different story.

Publications are not expected/required but I can say they probably earn you extra points when you're first author. They show that you have experience not only in research but in going through the peer review process. When you have to do an accelerated phd this will come in handy. If you were not directly involved in preparing the manuscript and dealing with reviewers then the pub will not add much more value than your research essay.
 
Of course, "accepted/in print" would probably trump all else but below that,
how much of a difference is there between the other notations (in preparation, submitted, in revision...)?

Thanks!

If it isn't accepted, it doesn't mean anything. I mean crap, I have 8 papers currently submitted/under review/revision stage. Doesn't go on the CV until it is accepted.

If you are putting that stuff on an application/resume, it means that you don't have other stuff to put, which we know. ie. padding.
 
If it isn't accepted, it doesn't mean anything. I mean crap, I have 8 papers currently submitted/under review/revision stage. Doesn't go on the CV until it is accepted.

If you are putting that stuff on an application/resume, it means that you don't have other stuff to put, which we know. ie. padding.

To each his own, I just gave my experience as an MD/PhD applicant. I think too many generalizations are made on this forum and there's no point in making assumptions.

When you're applying to MD/PhD (which is heavily about research) and are just starting your scientific career, 1 paper could be more meaningful to an applicant than to a resident who already has multiple papers and is clinically oriented. Also, in basic science it usually takes a considerable amount of effort/time to do the experiments and assemble a manuscript to publish as first author. Even a PI in basic science would rarely have 8 papers in submission/review at any one time.

In the end, what's there to lose? I doubt any adcom would reject an applicant because they put a paper "in revisions." However, some adcom could show interest and move towards an II once the paper is accepted.
 
To each his own, I just gave my experience as an MD/PhD applicant. I think too many generalizations are made on this forum and there's no point in making assumptions.

When you're applying to MD/PhD (which is heavily about research) and are just starting your scientific career, 1 paper could be more meaningful to an applicant than to a resident who already has multiple papers and is clinically oriented. Also, in basic science it usually takes a considerable amount of effort/time to do the experiments and assemble a manuscript to publish as first author. Even a PI in basic science would rarely have 8 papers in submission/review at any one time.

In the end, what's there to lose? I doubt any adcom would reject an applicant because they put a paper "in revisions." However, some adcom could show interest and move towards an II once the paper is accepted.

The question was, "how much does publication status matter?" The answer is, unless it is accepted/published, it doesn't mean anything. You don't get brownie points for something being in revision or being submitted. I had an extensive basic science research background when I applied to medical school. I sat on an admissions committee reviewing both MD and MD/PhD applications. Nowhere did I say that someone would be rejected because they put down that something was "in revisions". It simply won't help either.

Outside of accepted publications, what counts is what that research experience imparted on the applicant. The average MD candidate or MD/PhD candidate does not have an extensive research resume and we rely on students to explain to us their research experience and what it means they bring to the table. But, having something "in preparation, submitted, in revision" etc is meaningless. You are coming at this from an applicant perspective, not from an adcom perspective. Most of us that have been involved with research for some time, (personally over a decade now) know what that means. We have also seen dozens, if not hundreds of students up-sell these things to try to make their applications stand out. There is tremendous value in research experience outside of publications and I, as virtually all other adcoms, recognize this. But, when it comes to publications, they really are all or none because there is no way of checking until it is actually accepted.
 
The question was, "how much does publication status matter?" The answer is, unless it is accepted/published, it doesn't mean anything. You don't get brownie points for something being in revision or being submitted. I had an extensive basic science research background when I applied to medical school. I sat on an admissions committee reviewing both MD and MD/PhD applications. Nowhere did I say that someone would be rejected because they put down that something was "in revisions". It simply won't help either.

Outside of accepted publications, what counts is what that research experience imparted on the applicant. The average MD candidate or MD/PhD candidate does not have an extensive research resume and we rely on students to explain to us their research experience and what it means they bring to the table. But, having something "in preparation, submitted, in revision" etc is meaningless. You are coming at this from an applicant perspective, not from an adcom perspective. Most of us that have been involved with research for some time, (personally over a decade now) know what that means. We have also seen dozens, if not hundreds of students up-sell these things to try to make their applications stand out. There is tremendous value in research experience outside of publications and I, as virtually all other adcoms, recognize this. But, when it comes to publications, they really are all or none because there is no way of checking until it is actually accepted.

Exactamente
 
For what it's worth, I don't have any publications but I received IIs at some great MD/Phd programs. Granted, I'm waitlisted for all of them right now, I'm not 100% sure how much it affected my application but I do know of people who do not have publications who have gotten in. I would say not having publications won't hurt you, but having them obviously will help. Also, be sure to check out the MD/PhD (Physician Scientists) II/Accepted/Rejected forums when you're applying! We had a really great and supportive group this year and hoping it'll be just as great for you upcoming applicants!!
 
One can write up a title page with authorship list and the MS is now "In preparation".

Oh I completely agree, seen it happen many times.

Adviser:
"So how's that manuscript coming along?"

Student:
*Looks at blank document*
"Oh really well....it's in preparation."
 
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