For those of you who picked an Ivy League school over your state school, why and do you regret it?

[wengerout]

Pretty much what I asked in the title. Would really love some insight on to what was it that made the decision worth it to you, and how you are managing the extra cost in tuition. Thanks!

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[personalstatementsbyeric]

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[Big Time Hoosier]

Please allow me to rephrase your question. Would you rather go to, let's say, the University of Pennsylvania and drive a rusted out 1989 Toyota Camry, or go to, perhaps, "The" Ohio State University and drive a Lamborghini Huracán fresh out of Sant'Agata Bolognese, Italy? The really sad thing is that option two would still be cheaper. If you're smart enough to get into an Ivy League dental school, you should be smart enough not to go to an Ivy League dental school.

Big Hoss

 

[wengerout]

Please allow me to rephrase your question. Would you rather go to, let's say, the University of Pennsylvania and drive a rusted out 1989 Toyota Camry, or go to, perhaps, "The" Ohio State University and drive a Lamborghini Huracán fresh out of Sant'Agata Bolognese, Italy? The really sad thing is that option two would still be cheaper. If you're smart enough to get into an Ivy League dental school, you should be smart enough not to go to an Ivy League dental school.

Big Hoss

lol good choice on the car. If that's really true however how come our colleagues at say, Midwestern, who pay slightly more than an Ivy, can manage the debt?

I suppose a better question is is the 300k debt the death sentence that SDN makes it out to be, or is it manageable with the necessary sacrifice. I recall a poster earlier today who paid off his 300k debt in 4 years but understand that is not the norm.


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[Big Time Hoosier]

And they'll be managing that debt for the next 10-20 years. What part of that sounds fun?

Big Hoss

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[personalstatementsbyeric]

I love how when one of these threads pop up, the same people reply who made their choice not to attend an ivy. OP isn't looking nor is asking for your advice (no offense). He/She can find it on the countless other forums you have mentioned this thought process on. He is looking for those that deviated from decisions and asking, why? Why would you put more debt on yourself? Did that Ivy League education/degree live up to the reasons you chose it in the first place?

 

[wengerout]

I love how when one of these threads pop up, the same people reply who made their choice not to attend an ivy. OP isn't looking nor is asking for your advice (no offense). He/She can find it on the countless other forums you have mentioned this thought process on. He is looking for those that deviated from decisions and asking, why? Why would you put more debt on yourself? Did that Ivy League education/degree live up to the reasons you chose it in the first place?

Yes exactly! A guy I know from my undergrad chose to go to Penn over our state school. He was brilliant and I'm sure he knew the debt he was taking on, so I'm very curious why he/others took on the extra debt and if it was worth it in the end.


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[Incis0r]

I suppose a better question is is the 300k debt the death sentence that SDN makes it out to be, or is it manageable with the necessary sacrifice.

I don't think $300K is a death sentence. I am a very debt-averse person, but I genuinely believe that, if you know what you're doing, if you have grit, and if you have the drive, then you can succeed in dentistry and do very well for yourself.

One of my best friends just started D1 and will have over 300K in loans. I'm not worried at all about him because I've seen how he functions. I've seen the protocols he runs. And I KNOW that he will be successful on the other side.

If you like to cling to safe harbor (which I am guilty of at times), then $300K becomes a harder sell, but still doable depending on your expectations for life after dental school.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I love how when one of these threads pop up, the same people reply who made their choice not to attend an ivy. OP isn't looking nor is asking for your advice (no offense). He/She can find it on the countless other forums you have mentioned this thought process on. He is looking for those that deviated from decisions and asking, why? Why would you put more debt on yourself? Did that Ivy League education/degree live up to the reasons you chose it in the first place?

I went to an Ivy Plus before dental school. Was it worth it? Hmm...not really. Wish I had saved my money. Why pay more to become a dentist than you have to? It's the same outcome. Dental school isn't like business or law school, where the career prospects are entirely dependent on where you went to school. As far as specializing goes, you can absolutely match out of any school. Everyone in my class that applied to specialty training matched, save one OMFS applicant.

Big Hoss

 

[wengerout]

I went to an Ivy Plus before dental school. Was it worth it? Hmm...not really. Wish I had saved my money. Why pay more to become a dentist than you have to? It's the same outcome. Dental school isn't like business or law school, where the career prospects are entirely dependent on where you went to school. As far as specializing goes, you can absolutely match out of any school. Everyone in my class that applied to specialty training matched, save one OMFS applicant.

Big Hoss

Would that be because everyone who wanted their speciality got it, or because those who didn't think they would match didn't even bother to apply?


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[personalstatementsbyeric]

I went to an Ivy Plus before dental school. Was it worth it? Hmm...not really. Wish I had saved my money. Why pay more to become a dentist than you have to? It's the same outcome. Dental school isn't like business or law school, where the career prospects are entirely dependent on where you went to school. As far as specializing goes, you can absolutely match out of any school. Everyone in my class that applied to specialty training matched, save one OMFS applicant.

Big Hoss

Yea I think you are making an argument to go to an ivy if you can. Not sure everyone that applied to ortho got in from their state school

 

[ncide]

Would that be because everyone who wanted their speciality got it, or because those who didn't think they would match didn't even bother to apply?


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I think it tends to be a mix of both.

I remember one school ranks everyone #12 after the 11th spot, was this Penn? Maybe I'm mistaken, but in this scenario it would relieve some pressure after the first 11 spots are occupied and would leave you with a relatively high rank so that factors would be more considered in your candidacy.

 

[CanaDMD]

I think it tends to be a mix of both.

I remember one school ranks everyone #12 after the 11th spot, was this Penn? Maybe I'm mistaken, but in this scenario it would relieve some pressure after the first 11 spots are occupied and would leave you with a relatively high rank so that factors would be more considered in your candidacy.

LOL wut....

 

[ncide]

LOL wut....

Some schools just rank the top 10 or in thirds, quartiles. Dunno where I read about #12 scenario...

 

[CanaDMD]

Some schools just rank the top 10 or in thirds, quartiles. Dunno where I read about #12 scenario...

Life must be so good at such schools.

 

[wengerout]

Life must be so good at such schools.

Is class rank a big issue at your school? Do you want to specialize?


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[Big Time Hoosier]

Yea I think you are making an argument to go to an ivy if you can. Not sure everyone that applied to ortho got in from their state school

And not everyone from an Ivy will either. In fact, if you're dead set on specializing that IS a reason to choose the cheaper state school, since so many post grad programs charge ridiculous tuition. Imagine going to UPenn for dental school and ortho residency. You'd owe $700,000+ in student loans. In what world does that make financial sense?

Big Hoss

 

[wengerout]

And not everyone from an Ivy will either. In fact, if you're dead set on specializing that IS a reason to choose the cheaper state school, since so many post grad programs charge ridiculous tuition. Imagine going to UPenn for dental school and ortho residency. You'd owe $700,000+ in student loans. In what world does that make financial sense?

Big Hoss

In some residences (OMFS) you get paid instead of paying tuition. Of course you can specialize out of a state school but you better be the ace of aces (at my state school at least).

My bigger question is just knowing why people choose to pay the extra money. Too many people I have seen choose to go to these schools over their state schools even with the crazy tuition, so certainly there must be a reason.


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[personalstatementsbyeric]

In some residences (OMFS) you get paid instead of paying tuition. Of course you can specialize out of a state school but you better be the ace of aces (at my state school at least).

My bigger question is just knowing why people choose to pay the extra money. Too many people I have seen choose to go to these schools over their state schools even with the crazy tuition, so certainly there must be a reason.


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When Columbia has a 22 AA, you can bet these people could have gone to their state school. Why did they, I would love to know (from them)?

 

[CanaDMD]

Is class rank a big issue at your school? Do you want to specialize?


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A big issue? No? It's just that we get a legitimate ranking, no thirds or quarters or whatever. So it's something that we must take into account when applying to specialties.

The luckiest of them all = those who go to P/F schools haha

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

In some residences (OMFS) you get paid instead of paying tuition. Of course you can specialize out of a state school but you better be the ace of aces (at my state school at least).

My bigger question is just knowing why people choose to pay the extra money. Too many people I have seen choose to go to these schools over their state schools even with the crazy tuition, so certainly there must be a reason.


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If it's a 6-year OMFS program you'll be paying 2 years worth of medical school tuition, never mind the dental school loans accruing interest for those 6 years. Even some pedo programs, which is a specialty that historically paid a stipend, are getting in on the tuition racket.

Most of these people are going to Ivy League dental schools to satisfy their own vainglory, common sense be damned. I used to be just like them. I went to an elite private university before dental school for the very same reason. How many guest lectures by Nobel laureates must you receive to rationalize paying the astronomical tuition? Answer: Not enough. However, I am older and wiser now than all of you starry-eyed predents. Loan money is not Monopoly money. It is very, very real.

2 students in the bottom half of my class matched to endo and 1 in the bottom third matched to pedo. That tells me that specializing is easier than most believe it to be. It's the applicant that matters, not the school. From my interview experiences, the Ivys attract those with the gunner mentality. It will be easier to stand out at your school, if you're not surrounded by these individuals. And, your best chance for specializing is at your own school.

In reality, none of your patients will care where you went to dental school. They are much more concerned with your ability to give a relatively painless local injection.

Big Hoss

 

[wengerout]

If it's a 6-year OMFS program you'll be paying 2 years worth of medical school tuition, never mind the dental school loans accruing interest for those 6 years. Even some pedo programs, which is a specialty that historically paid a stipend, are getting in on the tuition racket.

Most of these people are going to Ivy League dental schools to satisfy their own vainglory, common sense be damned. I used to be just like them. I went to an elite private university before dental school for the very same reason. How many guest lectures by Nobel laureates must you receive to rationalize paying the astronomical tuition? Answer: Not enough. However, I am older and wiser now than all of you starry-eyed predents. Loan money is not Monopoly money. It is very, very real.

2 students in the bottom half of my class matched to endo and 1 in the bottom third matched to pedo. That tells me that specializing is easier than most believe it to be. It's the applicant that matters, not the school. From my interview experiences, the Ivys attract those with the gunner mentality. It will be easier to stand out at your school, if you're not surrounded by these individuals. And, your best chance for specializing is at your own school.

In reality, none of your patients will care where you went to dental school. They are much more concerned with your ability to give a relatively painless local injection.

Big Hoss

Interesting take, one popular on SDN. I still want to hear from those who choose to go to the Ivy's though. I don't think everyone chose to go there simply out of vanity.


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[personalstatementsbyeric]

If it's a 6-year OMFS program you'll be paying 2 years worth of medical school tuition, never mind the dental school loans accruing interest for those 6 years. Even some pedo programs, which is a specialty that historically paid a stipend, are getting in on the tuition racket.

Most of these people are going to Ivy League dental schools to satisfy their own vainglory, common sense be damned. I used to be just like them. I went to an elite private university before dental school for the very same reason. How many guest lectures by Nobel laureates must you receive to rationalize paying the astronomical tuition? Answer: Not enough. However, I am older and wiser now than all of you starry-eyed predents. Loan money is not Monopoly money. It is very, very real.

2 students in the bottom half of my class matched to endo and 1 in the bottom third matched to pedo. That tells me that specializing is easier than most believe it to be. It's the applicant that matters, not the school. From my interview experiences, the Ivys attract those with the gunner mentality. It will be easier to stand out at your school, if you're not surrounded by these individuals. And, your best chance for specializing is at your own school.

In reality, none of your patients will care where you went to dental school. They are much more concerned with your ability to give a relatively painless local injection.

Big Hoss

Also how could they match straight into Endo? Even the ivies typically only has one that is able to do that. Almost always you need to be practicing before getting into that residency...

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Also how could they match straight into Endo? Even the ivies typically only has one that is able to do that. Almost always you need to be practicing before getting into that residency...

Like I said, you have the best chance at specializing at your own school. Guess where they were accepted? They may not have had the grades, but they did everything else right. If the program director simply knows and likes you as a person, that is worth more than gold.

Take my advice, or leave it. It doesn't really matter to Big Hoss. As I mentioned in another thread somewhere, I like that my future competition is being neutered financially by their student loans. It's business, nothing personal.

Big Hoss

 

[GoldenDomer11]

If it's a 6-year OMFS program you'll be paying 2 years worth of medical school tuition, never mind the dental school loans accruing interest for those 6 years. Even some pedo programs, which is a specialty that historically paid a stipend, are getting in on the tuition racket.

Most of these people are going to Ivy League dental schools to satisfy their own vainglory, common sense be damned. I used to be just like them. I went to an elite private university before dental school for the very same reason. How many guest lectures by Nobel laureates must you receive to rationalize paying the astronomical tuition? Answer: Not enough. However, I am older and wiser now than all of you starry-eyed predents. Loan money is not Monopoly money. It is very, very real.

2 students in the bottom half of my class matched to endo and 1 in the bottom third matched to pedo. That tells me that specializing is easier than most believe it to be. It's the applicant that matters, not the school. From my interview experiences, the Ivys attract those with the gunner mentality. It will be easier to stand out at your school, if you're not surrounded by these individuals. And, your best chance for specializing is at your own school.

In reality, none of your patients will care where you went to dental school. They are much more concerned with your ability to give a relatively painless local injection.

Big Hoss

A. Getting a pediatrics residency has much more to do with personality than class rank.
B. Endo is not super competitive from what I've heard.
C. Yes it is the applicant that matters, but there is a reason that certain specialty programs take a lot of students from the Ivy league schools and UCSF, UCLA, etc. - name recognition matters. It doesn't matter for your patients, you are correct, but it does matter for residency programs.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

A. Getting a pediatrics residency has much more to do with personality than class rank.
B. Endo is not super competitive from what I've heard.
C. Yes it is the applicant that matters, but there is a reason that certain specialty programs take a lot of students from the Ivy league schools and UCSF, UCLA, etc. - name recognition matters. It doesn't matter for your patients, you are correct, but it does matter for residency programs.

Pedo is actually becoming fairly competitive. They have significantly more applicants than any other specialty.

Whoever told you that about endo lied to you. It's really difficult to get in straight out of school. Half of the programs won't even honestly consider you without full-time experience.

Correlation vs. causation. Promising students self-select going to these "prestigious" schools, but they would have excelled wherever they went. And, it's YOUR record of achievement that matters. Is there something magic about the dentistry taught at Columbia? Guess what, it is the same material taught at North Carolina or Texas A&M. If anything, if I were a PD I'd probably take someone from North Carolina or Texas A&M over Columbia. I had heard about the subpar clinical education at Columbia/Harvard, but I really didn't believe it. That was until I actually worked with some recent graduates of those fine universities. Trust me, I'd rather have a Tar Heel or Aggie work in my mouth.

Big Hoss

 

[GoldenDomer11]

Pedo is actually becoming fairly competitive. They have significantly more applicants than any other specialty.

Whoever told you that about endo lied to you. It's really difficult to get in straight out of school. Half of the programs won't even honestly consider you without full-time experience.

Correlation vs. causation. Promising students self-select going to these "prestigious" schools, but they would have excelled wherever they went. And, it's YOUR record of achievement that matters. Is there something magic about the dentistry taught at Columbia? Guess what, it is the same material taught at North Carolina or Texas A&M. If anything, if I were a PD I'd probably take someone from North Carolina or Texas A&M over Columbia. I had heard about the subpar clinical education at Columbia/Harvard, but I really didn't believe it. That was until I actually worked with some recent graduates of those fine universities. Trust me, I'd rather have a Tar Heel or Aggie work in my mouth.

Big Hoss

Most schools nowadays pretty much necessitate that their students go into GPR or AEGD programs before entering private practice. That's where you'll pick up most of your clinical speed anyways. I shadowed a dentist who graduated from IU, he told me that he learned more in 1 year working in his GPR than he did in all 4 years of dental school.

 

[CanaDMD]

Most schools nowadays pretty much necessitate that their students go into GPR or AEGD programs before entering private practice. That's where you'll pick up most of your clinical speed anyways. I shadowed a dentist who graduated from IU, he told me that he learned more in 1 year working in his GPR than he did in all 4 years of dental school.

Lol? ^

If that were the case we'd have WAY more GPR spots... xD

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Most schools nowadays pretty much necessitate that their students go into GPR or AEGD programs before entering private practice. That's where you'll pick up most of your clinical speed anyways. I shadowed a dentist who graduated from IU, he told me that he learned more in 1 year working in his GPR than he did in all 4 years of dental school.

So, your dental school isn't preparing you to practice dentistry. What are you paying for then?

Big Hoss

 

[Henry Killinger]

I think the financial bondage would be too much for me. If I got a military scholarship, I'd probably go just to see what it'd be like to go to a famous school, it'd be a nice life experience. I know the school I go to won't somehow stop me from becoming a specialist if a certain area of dentistry really speaks to me.

 

[The OMFS]

Most schools nowadays pretty much necessitate that their students go into GPR or AEGD programs before entering private practice. That's where you'll pick up most of your clinical speed anyways. I shadowed a dentist who graduated from IU, he told me that he learned more in 1 year working in his GPR than he did in all 4 years of dental school.

It's funny how this comment comes from a first-year dental student trying to argue with a practicing dentist. Necessitate? You don't need a GPR/AEGD certificate to get into private practice. That's some bs gimmick that your school is trying to sell because of the lack of clinical education you are getting. I graduated from an Ivy League dental school, and realized that those that attend Ivy league dental school are more likely to go to GPR and AEGD programs simply because their clinical education is simply lacking. Period. You will find yourself observing more specialty procedures rather than doing clinical procedures yourself. You will also find most of your classmates, possibly yourself included, will end up choosing to specialize because they will soon grow to hate general dentistry because of the lack of clinical education that you get at an Ivy League school.

 

[ncide]

It's funny how this comment comes from a first-year dental student trying to argue with a practicing dentist. Necessitate? You don't need a GPR/AEGD certificate to get into private practice. That's some bs gimmick that your school is trying to sell because of the lack of clinical education you are getting. I graduated from an Ivy League dental school, and realized that those that attend Ivy league dental school are more likely to go to GPR and AEGD programs simply because their clinical education is simply lacking. Period. You will find yourself observing more specialty procedures rather than doing clinical procedures yourself. You will also find most of your classmates, possibly yourself included, will end up choosing to specialize because they will soon grow to hate general dentistry because of the lack of clinical education that you get at an Ivy League school.

NY state requires a residency to obtain a dental license to practice (specialty or GPR/AEGD).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24245459

The exception is if you are licensed in another state and have practiced for a minimum of 2 years.

 

[The OMFS]

NY state requires a residency to obtain a dental license to practice (specialty or GPR/AEGD).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24245459

The exception is if you are licensed in another state and have practiced for a minimum of 2 years.

I am aware of that. DE also requires additional training.

 

[GoldenDomer11]

So, your dental school isn't preparing you to practice dentistry. What are you paying for then?

Big Hoss

It's called competency. That's literally what the boards are testing.


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[Big Time Hoosier]

It's called competency. That's literally what the boards are testing.


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Shooting for mediocrity, are we? You're going places, kid.

Big Hoss

 

[toothdoctor123]

Would you rather go to, let's say, the University of Pennsylvania and drive a rusted out 1989 Toyota Camry, or go to, perhaps, "The" Ohio State University and drive a Lamborghini Huracán fresh out of Sant'Agata Bolognese, Italy?

I had heard about the subpar clinical education at Columbia/Harvard, but I really didn't believe it. That was until I actually worked with some recent graduates of those fine universities. Trust me, I'd rather have a Tar Heel or Aggie work in my mouth

Shooting for mediocrity, are we? You're going places, kid.

Big Hoss

"Shooting for mediocrity" is choosing a DDS program based on cost alone rather than on quality of education.

In my opinion, the theoretical ability to own a Lamborghini Huracán straight out of dental school (your example) would not be worth a concomitant feeling of inadequacy deep enough to drive a practicing dentist to spread false, inflammatory rumors about Columbia students and alumni. In reality, the Commission on Dental Accreditation completed its regular audit of Columbia in September and made no recommendations for any of the programs, meaning that Columbia is one of only three schools nationally that has met or exceeded every standard for accreditation this year. Tell me, does "meeting or exceeding every standard" mean the same thing as "subpar," or does it mean the opposite?

I hope to God that I won't still be on these forums when I am a practicing dentist, trolling threads and putting down students. I'd rather be "going places" by then.

 

[Incis0r]

Most of the general dentists I've spoken with have highly recommended doing a PGY-1 because it is a great opportunity to improve your skills, accelerate your speed, and experiment with new materials/tech. in a teaching environment.

That said, they have all cautioned me to research the PGY-1 programs with deep rigor - it is easy to pick the wrong one where you won't get much out of it.

In the grand scheme of things, this is a 30+ year career. And I think one year of structured, intense training in all of the disciplines will only allow me to serve my patients better.

I fully understand that there are those who are confident in their skills right out of dental school - if they are confident, then they don't need one and I respect that. I would just prefer to have that additional year of training.

those that attend Ivy league dental school are more likely to go to GPR and AEGD programs simply because their clinical education is simply lacking. Period. You will find yourself observing more specialty procedures rather than doing clinical procedures yourself. You will also find most of your classmates, possibly yourself included, will end up choosing to specialize because they will soon grow to hate general dentistry because of the lack of clinical education that you get at an Ivy League school.

With Decision Day (Dec. 1) less than 40 days away, it is extremely helpful to have insights like this. Thank you.

 

[wengerout]

"Shooting for mediocrity" is choosing a DDS program based on cost alone rather than on quality of education.

In my opinion, the theoretical ability to own a Lamborghini Huracán straight out of dental school (your example) would not be worth a concomitant feeling of inadequacy deep enough to drive a practicing dentist to spread false, inflammatory rumors about Columbia students and alumni. In reality, the Commission on Dental Accreditation completed its regular audit of Columbia in September and made no recommendations for any of the programs, meaning that Columbia is one of only three schools nationally that has met or exceeded every standard for accreditation this year. Tell me, does "meeting or exceeding every standard" mean the same thing as "subpar," or does it mean the opposite?

I hope to God that I won't still be on these forums when I am a practicing dentist, trolling threads and putting down students. I'd rather be "going places" by then.

I remember they mentioned this at the interview! I completely agree with you. I'll remember that quote when choosing a school in December (if I have a choice).


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[Incis0r]

Would you rather go to, let's say, the University of Pennsylvania and drive a rusted out 1989 Toyota Camry, or go to, perhaps, "The" Ohio State University and drive a Lamborghini Huracán fresh out of Sant'Agata Bolognese, Italy?

Neither. I'd rather go to Ohio State and drive a 1989 Toyota Camry. #financialindependence

I might splurge to get it in manual transmission, though.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Any predents reading this thread that aren't blinded by their own pride, take note. It is telling that no one can refute the premise of my argument. Ivy League dental schools, and all crazy expensive schools for that matter, offer nothing in the education they provide that warrants paying twice what you would have at your state school. Remember that when you cut your first loan repayment check. You'll either be thanking me or cursing me.

Big Hoss

 

[wengerout]

Any predents reading this thread that aren't blinded by their own pride, take note. It is telling that no one can refute the premise of my argument. Ivy League dental schools, and all crazy expensive schools for that matter, offer nothing in the education they provide that warrants paying twice what you would have at your state school. Remember that when you cut your first loan repayment check. You'll either be thanking me or cursing me.

Big Hoss

The purpose of the thread was to hear why those in Ivy's choose them over their state schools, not why those who aren't in them choose not to go. Still, I value your opinion! I'll take everything into consideration if I'm lucky enough to get into the schools I interviewed at.


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[Big Time Hoosier]

In my opinion, the theoretical ability to own a Lamborghini Huracán straight out of dental school (your example) would not be worth a concomitant feeling of inadequacy deep enough to drive a practicing dentist to spread false, inflammatory rumors about Columbia students and alumni.

Columbia must have wanted to get their hands on Big Hoss in a bad way, because I was notified well into November that I was admitted. They were all kinds of bent out of shape when I told them I'd be attending a lowly state school instead. So, somewhere out there there's a haughty, arrogant individual thinking they're hot stuff only because I gave them their seat. And if you're reading this, mystery Columbia grad, you're welcome.

Big Hoss

 

[toothdoctor123]

Ivy League dental schools, and all crazy expensive schools for that matter, offer nothing in the education they provide that warrants paying twice what you would have at your state school.

That's actually a big misconception among practicing dentists because the cost of state schools has also risen drastically these last few years. Even if you are a recent graduate, Big Hoss (Dr. Hoss?), the expected cost of education for current 1st year dental students at some schools could be $100k more than what you paid. Yes, private schools are way overpriced, but no state education is a bargain either. If I chose to go to UConn (they accepted me too), I would probably graduate with $350k of debt. So no, I'm not paying twice as much to go to Columbia (~$430k for me).

Columbia must have wanted to get their hands on Big Hoss in a bad way, because I was notified well into November that I was admitted. They were all kinds of bent out of shape when I told them I'd be attending a lowly state school instead. So, somewhere out there there's a haughty, arrogant individual thinking they're hot stuff only because I gave them their seat. And if you're reading this, mystery Columbia grad, you're welcome

Aha! This is the post we've been waiting for. It's okay to admit that you're second guessing that fateful decision years later. Don't worry--your secret is safe with us.

 

[Incis0r]

That's actually a big misconception among practicing dentists because the cost of state schools has also risen drastically these last few years. Even if you are a recent graduate, Big Hoss (Dr. Hoss?), the expected cost of education for current 1st year dental students at some schools could be $100k more than what you paid. Yes, private schools are way overpriced, but no state education is a bargain either. If I chose to go to UConn (they accepted me too), I would probably graduate with $350k of debt. So no, I'm not paying twice as much to go to Columbia (~$430k for me).

We've done some research on this over on pre-dental. Under the leadership of @Panis et Circenses , we have compiled a list of the total cost of education an entering D1 can expect at several schools around the country. Please see below for the summary:

UConn OOS for D1 (and IS for D2-D4) would easily be around $375K. Columbia is at ~$500K. Therefore, your statement that CDM is not twice the cost of a state school like UConn is indeed correct.

I will be posting the grand total of each school as we go, so you can get an idea. These numbers are based on tuition listed in 2016.
NYU: $544,614.28
MUSC (OOS): $535,664.80
UPENN: $523,501.09
USC: $517,876.94
University of the Pacific: $503,370.66
(OOS) University of Washington: $501,638.58
Columbia: $497,438.60
Western University (CA): $494,434.67
(OOS) Oregon Health Science University: $486,323.52
Midwestern University (AZ): $474,847.96
(OOS) Minnesota: $472,916.82
AT Still Arizona ASDOH: $468,565.99
Tufts: $466,692.36
Roseman University (Utah): $446,705
Harvard: $435,520.47
Nova (FL): $433,921.77
(OOS) Temple University: $428,271.10. (In-state = $397,898.50)
Detroit Mercy: $428,162.63
Case Western: $422,628.63
Louisville (OOS): $415,710.75
Pittsburgh (OOS): $397,005.04
MUSC (in-state): $382,154.80
Buffalo (OOS): $476,018.45, but can receive in-state after a year which becomes $374,003.81 total.

For comparison, here are some schools on the CHEAPER side. (IS = In-state tuition)
UCONN (IS): $300,163.35
UTHSC-SA (IS): $256,856.27
UT-Houston (IS): $255,848.59
Alabama (IS): $246,682.71

 

[toothdoctor123]

We've done some research on this over on pre-dental. Under the leadership of @Panis et Circenses , we have compiled a list of the total cost of education an entering D1 can expect at several schools around the country. Please see below for the summary:

UConn OOS for D1 (and IS for D2-D4) would easily be around $375K. Columbia is at ~$500K. Therefore, your statement that CDM is not twice the cost of a state school like UConn is indeed correct

Wow, good work! That looks about right to me if you're including Grad PLUS interest. I don't suppose you guys also factored in average annual tuition increases of ~3%?

 

[Incis0r]

I don't suppose you guys also factored in average annual tuition increases of ~3%?

Correct- we did not do that on purpose. The reasoning is that each school has a different tuition increase. Some schools may increase 7% annually. Others may be 1-2%. So it would be inaccurate in multiple cases to factor in a tuition increase.

The OP of the thread DID however state that disclaimer in his thread. You can see the thread in its entirety here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...usly-expensive-dental-schools-thread.1223909/

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Aha! This is the post we've been waiting for. It's okay to admit that you're second guessing that fateful decision years later. Don't worry--your secret is safe with us.

Nice try. But, there is no way I would have made any other decision. Spend 4 years in the "splendor" of Morning Side Heights or live where I lived? I could walk half a mile from my apartment and be fly fishing on the river. Big Hoss is multidimensional and appreciates the simpler things life has to offer. I recommend you try it sometime, fly fishing that is.

Big Hoss

 

[Incis0r]

I'm sorry but please tell me you didn't just spend $125,000 extra on essentially the same education, not to mention cost of living difference.

If you're not afraid of what that number grows to with interest then all I can say is you are a much braver soul than I am.

If you're truly set on specializing and want what an Ivy League school may or may not offer then I can see the justification of picking it over a "lowly" state school, but UConn's philosophy is basically "hey look at us we do all the same things the Ivies do and charge our students less". That's a decision that is a little tougher to justify, with the education being so similar.

You're an expert on UConn, so please correct me if I am wrong in any aspect of my post here.

To anyone reading, for the record, I have zero affiliation with either UConn or Columbia.

I really like UConn, but I'm not sure if the educations are that similar anymore. True, both UConn and Columbia have a biomedical curriculum, but I'm talking about the mode of learning.

UConn's curriculum overhaul towards PBL/TBL has led to a new educational experience for current D1s that previous UConn students haven't experienced. While it looks like a promising change, the long-term results (how students do on Boards, how they will do on the ADAT, etc.) of this new approach have not been observed yet. When you see the specialty rates of UConn students right now, it is important to realize that those students went through the old, lecture-based curriculum that featured 2 full years of combined education with med students. Now, this period of biomedical education is much shorter (I think it is 15-18 months?).

Furthermore, the new teaching method can be frustrating to those who were used to traditional lectures because the new method means no more lectures + no more slides. Add in the fact that UConn is completely P/F grading + unranked, and we quickly arrive at the conclusion that specialty programs have less information to judge applicants by. In fact, the ADAT may be the only quantitative tool specialty programs will have to judge non-OMFS UConn students by.

Columbia on the other hand has 2 full years of biomedical education with the med students, lectures (recorded + uploaded online for you to view at your leisure), P/F/H grading + ranking by thirds (which gives specialty programs more information to evaluate you with), and is actively looking ahead to the ADAT to see how best to prepare its students.

So the point I am making, with great respect to you, is that the educations are not necessarily so similar anymore.

Now, all this said, the cost difference is significant. If I had to take out loans and was fortunate enough to have acceptances to both schools, it's a no-brainer which one I would take, ESPECIALLY if I was a CT resident because I do believe that specialization ultimately depends on the student, not the school. If you bring the heat at UConn, and I know you certainly will @Scumbag_Steve , then you will have residency programs knocking on your door requesting you to join them.

That said for someone who is paying OOS tuition for that D1 year at UConn (UConn gives subsidized rates to New England residents too), OR for someone who has the HPSP and cost is not an issue, the smaller cost difference might be worth going to CDM over when you are comparing an untested new curriculum at UConn with a proven curriculum at Columbia.

If I am incorrect anywhere, please let me know and I'll revise my analysis.