For those of you who read the job situation post (and were thoroughly offended)

mfernando87

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Hi everyone,

So it looks as though I've managed to offend quite a large number of you, and I'm sorry if my question came off as rude. The question I had was completely legit. The majority of people I'm in close contact with in the medical field are MDs and a few RNs... I haven't heard about osteopathic medicine until relatively recently, but the more I find out about it, the more I feel like it's something I'd really like to pursue and learn more about. For the most part, I've heard a lot of great things about osteopathic medicine, but I've actually run into a lot of people who don't really know much about it (both from patients and from people who are in the medical field), and so I was a bit concerned.
I wanted to pursue my medical education at an osteopathic school because I really felt it catered towards primary care and gearing its students to not only understand the technicalities of medicine, but also towards really developing and understanding of a patient as an individual and not just a list of symptoms. The DOs I've heard speak about their practices and their own beliefs about medicine really inspired me to look into it because it seemed really similar to how I wanted to practice medicine. Not that any other way is better than the other, but I guess I just felt my beliefs and goals were more suited towards osteopathic medicine. Many of the DOs I've attended lectures from are in private practice, though, and I wasn't quite so sure if that was the route I wanted to pursue, so I felt I would ask other people who are in the situation of attending school or are in residency right now to see what their opinions might be.
It looks like I've got a lot to learn about the whole thing, but from what I have gathered from talking to people and doing research on the field, I feel it's something I'd really like to take on. I'm trying to find a DO who I can shadow for a while, so that I can get a better perspective on things, and that I'll understand more about it while I'm working in a hospital rather than just collecting information from various places. At any rate, thank you for the information anyone offered in the last post, and I'm really very sorry for offending anyone.
 

DragonWell

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so I felt I would ask other people who are in the situation of attending school or are in residency right now to see what their opinions might be.
This is a pre-med board, so you may have slightly misjudged your intended audience.

In any case, I don't think you need to apologize, but just understand that these types of questions occur frequently, and some people tend to develop a short fuse w/ regard to them over time. If you do a search, you'll find lots of info to help answer your questions.

MDs and DOs are both fully licensed physicians in the US. The short answer to your question is that there is no issue with DOs finding jobs and, once employed, DOs can expect to make the same income as MDs employed in respective fields. Hope that helps and welcome to the board.
 

ShyRem

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I'm not offended by your question. Perhaps it was poorly worded, but in any case did not deserve the comments received.

Poke around the forums a bit. Do some background reading. I suggest going to aacom.org and start there. You will notice there is an osteopathic school in California. Perhaps a drive there would also be a good place to get some of your questions answered. (I wish there had been a DO school near where I lived so I could have had that opportunity.)

And please don't hold it against most of the users here for a few rude ones. *sigh* there's always a few.
 

JaggerPlate

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I'm not offended by your question. Perhaps it was poorly worded, but in any case did not deserve the comments received.

Poke around the forums a bit. Do some background reading. I suggest going to aacom.org and start there. You will notice there is an osteopathic school in California. Perhaps a drive there would also be a good place to get some of your questions answered. (I wish there had been a DO school near where I lived so I could have had that opportunity.)

And please don't hold it against most of the users here for a few rude ones. *sigh* there's always a few.
Two actually!!! Anyway, OP ... I highly doubt you actually 'offended' anyone. It is more likely that you asked a question which had been asked many times before. A rookie mistake, but no harm no foul. No one cares, stick around the boards and you will learn a ton. Sorry if any of us made you feel not welcomed.
 

A18Devil

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mfernando87

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Hey!

Thanks a ton for the information :) I've actually been visiting one of the universities around the area (Touro U.), and I love it! A lot of the DOs that I've attended lectures from are currently teaching there, but it's a fairly new school (about 10 years old, I think...), so it's a little tough finding someone who's graduated from there and practicing (most of the DOs in the area are from Western U.). Anyhoo, I love the place and the students I talk to when I visit are really great and seem concerned about a lot of the same issues in healthcare as I am. Only problem is I have classes M-F from about 8 am until 10 pm, so when I go in on the weekends I don't really get to talk to anyone who works there. I enjoy hearing about osteopathic medicine from people who really understand it, but I guess I feel like I'm not understanding the whole approach because I haven't really worked directly under a DO yet (I volunteer at clinics were DOs drop in, but it's not the same thing as working with them on a regular basis). It honestly doesn't sound or appear very different from allopathic medicine (aside from the manipulation aspect), but I think it does a really great job of really focusing your learning towards primary care and preventative medicine, which I'm interested in. It just seems like the areas I've lived in before haven't really heard too much about it, so it's a little tough for me to get an idea of how osteopathic medicine is viewed within a broader scope, and if it really will enable me to do what I want as a physician. I'll keep sniffing around for internships and what-not to see if I can get a better handle on things... Thanks again!
 

ShyRem

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Good heavens, Jagger. I think the one remaining free neuron I have left that isn't thinking about an entire year's worth of pharm was sleeping. Or perhaps it's just run away for a while in sheer terror. :laugh:

I think I need more coffee, more sleep, and definitely a night of stupid movies and mojitos. But I think that'll have to wait until after finals, board prep, and boards. July. I'll pencil in a date for all that stuff in July.
 

Thantis

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Why? Do DOs get injured a lot?
Thank you for the laugh.

@ OP:
This part of the forum does get its fair share of flamers, but then what can one expect from the ignorant unwashed masses. Thus one can understand why they get tired and then reply in kind. From my experience, at least in GA, I did not see many DOs and thought they had to do with the area of vision. I would say it was the end of last year (2007) that I started researching and developed an understanding of it all. The general attitude is to keep an open mind and stay away from CAM (primarily chiropracters, but that is another discussion). These boards are also helpful, but take what you can with a whole salt-shaker full of...well.....salt. And try not to stay too near Tex and Jagger....I think they have rabies. :smuggrin: (I kid.)
 

JaggerPlate

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Good heavens, Jagger. I think the one remaining free neuron I have left that isn't thinking about an entire year's worth of pharm was sleeping. Or perhaps it's just run away for a while in sheer terror. :laugh:

I think I need more coffee, more sleep, and definitely a night of stupid movies and mojitos. But I think that'll have to wait until after finals, board prep, and boards. July. I'll pencil in a date for all that stuff in July.
I know the feeling ...
 
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mfernando87

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I'm a student at University of California, Berkeley. I'll be graduating this May (thank goodness...), but it's been a really great experience. Their approach to understanding medicine is primarily allopathic, but if you're willing to look for it, you can find a bunch of really awesome ways to gain exposure into all sorts of healing practices. I was actually interested in allopathic medicine before I came to Cal, but after trying to find out about different forms of medicine, I really felt I could be a better doctor if I decided to pursue osteopathic medicine.
I've tried volunteering at the local ERs, but they didn't really suit my fancy. There were a lot of restrictions and limitations, and I wanted to do something more than just folding sheets. I also wanted more interaction with patients. I'm volunteering at a clinic right now that's student-run, so I get a lot of time just talking to patients. The clinic serves the homeless youth in the Bay Area, and it's pretty open minded as far as medical practices, but because it's student-run it's tends to be a bit unsteady at times given that the students have their academic priorities in mind, and so we don't always have a steady stream of doctors available at times.
My family lives in Texas, so I'll be going back there for the Summer. I plan on trying to pester a DO either in family practice or pediatrics to let me follow him/her around, so I can try and gain more exposure to the field.
 

DragonWell

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I'm a student at University of California, Berkeley. I'll be graduating this May (thank goodness...), but it's been a really great experience. Their approach to understanding medicine is primarily allopathic, but if you're willing to look for it, you can find a bunch of really awesome ways to gain exposure into all sorts of healing practices. I was actually interested in allopathic medicine before I came to Cal, but after trying to find out about different forms of medicine, I really felt I could be a better doctor if I decided to pursue osteopathic medicine.
I've tried volunteering at the local ERs, but they didn't really suit my fancy. There were a lot of restrictions and limitations, and I wanted to do something more than just folding sheets. I also wanted more interaction with patients. I'm volunteering at a clinic right now that's student-run, so I get a lot of time just talking to patients. The clinic serves the homeless youth in the Bay Area, and it's pretty open minded as far as medical practices, but because it's student-run it's tends to be a bit unsteady at times given that the students have their academic priorities in mind, and so we don't always have a steady stream of doctors available at times.
My family lives in Texas, so I'll be going back there for the Summer. I plan on trying to pester a DO either in family practice or pediatrics to let me follow him/her around, so I can try and gain more exposure to the field.
IMHO, in spite of what you may have read or heard to the contrary, there is no substantial difference in the approach of allopathic vs osteopathic medicine. As a DO you will be exposed to a hands-on approach to diagnosis and treatment called Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine (OMM), and although it can be extremely useful, unless you actively pursue additional training in OMM you will end up with basically a token amount of OMM experience.

Like any physician, MD or DO, you can choose to incorporate any complementary healing modalities you are trained to use, but these are not part of the standard DO curriculum. With the exception of a couple hours of OMM/week, the curriculum and approach to medicine you will learn is indistinguishable from an allopathic school.
 

Character

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some bias in the south. definate bias in colorado (despite havinf rvu). everywhere else, its A OKAY.
 

ShyRem

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some bias in the south. definate bias in colorado (despite havinf rvu). everywhere else, its A OKAY.
Interesting. I lived in Colorado for 20 years, was a paramedic on both sides of the divide for 15. I never saw or heard of any bias except at one particular hospital that are rather full of themselves for no good reason and don't play well with others. Every single doc I ever talked to (DOC, not hospital administrator from said inbred hospital) had no bias whatsoever and all said "initials don't make the doctor and it's all about the person in front of the initials".
 

gasapple

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some bias in the south. definate bias in colorado (despite havinf rvu). everywhere else, its A OKAY.
Definitely not accurate. :laugh: And "Everywhere else it's A-OK"... :laugh:
 

HarMegido

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your question was offensive. it was a topic that has been debated to the ground. you'll find plenty of info on what you are looking for in the forums
 

TexasTriathlete

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I don't think its a big deal. Just another over-eager pre-med asking a dumb question. We've all done it.

He's shown that he is sincere though, which means we should be willing to help him. However, his initial question was also dumb enough for us to make fun of.
 

digitlnoize

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I live in a state that has relatively few DO's. We just got our first DO school here a few years ago. I had never heard of DO's until I got interested in med school...

The ER I work at has 2 DO attendings. There's also a couple DO hospitalists I see regularly. There is absolutely NO WAY for me to tell these docs are DO's unless I look at their initials on the chart.

In fact, one of the hospitalists escaped my "DO-dar" for about 8 months...

As far as jobs go: once you are board certified to practice, no one cares...as long as you're a good doc.

There are rumors that it is slightly more difficult for DO's to get some of the super competitive residencies, but what is competitive today may not be by the time you're in the match. And, there are plenty of examples of people getting the residency they want as DO's. NYCOM matched rads at Yale this year for Pete's sake.

Do a search of pretty much any hospital's staff. You're bound to find a handful of DO's in a wide variety of departments. Check it out.
 

Thantis

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What state are you in digitlnoize?
 

digitlnoize

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What state are you in digitlnoize?
The state of confusion. I try not to give away tooooo much personal info on here...not that I do a very good job of it.

I'll PM you. For everyone else, I'm talking about an east coast state with a kinda new DO school...I know there's a couple of possibilities, but...that's all you're getting.
 

Seneca20

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OP I'm betting you've given up on your previous post, so I'll post this here. You were looking for a good site with links to physician job opportunities. Whether its time for you to start looking at these or not, here is one of the best sites out there:

www.practicelink.com

Enjoy.....