For those who think Caribb MD is a good idea.....

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CRNAs in Ohio awhile back were doing that, got mail order Dr of Divinity degrees and were presenting themselves as Dr.... from anesthesia. State Board of medicine had to get involved to cease and desist

That's disgusting. What's horrific is they probably viewed themselves as the oppressed good guys being kept down by evil physicians.

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Yeah but there’s a way to be rude and a way to be polite about it. When a patients declining, these new nurses are scared and will get mixed up on some pleasantries.

There is a particularly..dainty CCMS doctor who loves to belittle mostly the male nurses I’ve noticed. A brand new nurse called him and to start off with he corrected the nurse for calling him Mr, which for the nurse flustered, and then started asking him a lot of really specific questions on his history maybe 3 hours into shift on a patient this nurse had never had before, using a condescending tone and basically implying he was an idiot. I’ve also seen this doctor correct an attendants chest compressions (who had been compressing the pt for at least 10 minutes before I even got there, and for another 20 mins or so along with myself and one nursing student. This dude is HUGE, but chest compressions are one of the most tiring things I’ve ever done), and just say “let me do it!” And then do maybe 30 seconds worth and wuss out and say “OKAY SOMEBODY JUMP IN AND TAKE OVER FOR ME!” before the pulse check because he has the body of a 12 year old girl.

Not a good way to establish rapport. Some doctors are really relaxed, and say “I’m Stephen”, and others like to be more professional. This is FINE. But respect goes both ways. I call my CNAs Miss so and so because most of them are older than me, and although my position is higher, I respect my elders. Saying Mr./Miss is still showing respect, and if you prefer to be called doctor you can easily say “Please, call me Doctor so and so”, it’s not rude, maybe particular, but not rude and it doesn’t stress an already stressed person over “stupid sh”.

I was the same way in the Army. At peace time, I would reinforce that my soldiers address me appropriately. In Iraq, I just had my soldiers call me my last name. It’s quicker and gets the point across.

Quote I lived by the in the Army - “If you respect this(points to name tape), I don’t need to worry about you respecting this (points to rank).”
 
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What is the length of time?

I suspect that we might see some MD med schools offering the same. At least ones who can figure out classroom space to accommodate such an offering and can do so without losing money.

Takes 3 years for a PA to get a DO degree at LECOM-E. Not a bad deal for a PA to further their education in becoming a Physician.

Some of my friends are working PAs, and while I support their decisions about becoming a PA, the conversation becomes very real very fast when they start comparing their work (PAs) to those of an MD/DO. Like really..so you learned everything an MD/DO knows in what..in 24-36 months? lol

Also, the NP/PA field started to fill the primary care fields in underserved areas..the so-called "shortage"...and even my friends used this theme in their personal statements...but as soon as they graduated...they all want a job in Dermatology or ortho or anything BUT primary care..its all about the $$$ o_O
 
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My thing is, you’re focusing on the “respect”. My main hang up is “is there enough to learn about feet that will keep me interested for another 40 years?”

I feel like with other areas of medicine, there is SO much to know, that you can always find something else. But with a very limited area of practice anatomically, the curve must be undoubtedly much steeper.

I mean same thing with other regional specialties. ENT, Optho. (which seem to be some of the more competitive specialties) Medicine stays evolving. We've all signed up to be life long learners. The feet literally bear all of our weight. Gravity and bio mechanics all lead to foot which makes for unique pathology. a The hind foot has such unique joints we still don't have the perfect implant for a total ankle replacement. (although we are getting there) Like I said podiatry deals with vascular, wound care, orthopedics, derm, pediatrics.

So obvi if you're interested in systemic diseases or organ systems podiatry is gonna disappoint you. But remember although you are limited to the foot and ankle. You still deal with everything from skin to bone. Giving pods the opportunity to focus or specialize in one area and the ability to publish in journals across different specialties as it relates to the foot and ankle. And I'm not saying podiatrist are huge innovators in any of these fields. I'm just saying the degree allows for the opportunity.
 
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Takes 3 years for a PA to get a DO degree at LECOM-E. Not a bad deal for a PA to further their education in becoming a Physician.

Some of my friends are working PAs, and while I support their decisions about becoming a PA, the conversation becomes very real very fast when they start comparing their work (PAs) to those of an MD/DO. Like really..so you learned everything an MD/DO knows in what..in 24-36 months? lol

Also, the NP/PA field started to fill the primary care fields in underserved areas..the so-called "shortage"...and even my friends used this theme in their personal statements...but as soon as they graduated...they all want a job in Dermatology or surgery or anything BUT primary care..its all about the $$$ o_O

We have inter professional days at my school where the DPM,MD,DDS,PT,PhamD, and PA students all come together and talk or whatever.

There is always alot of tension between the MD and PA students. There first line is always "despite the name we're not assistants to anyone." Very entertaining. The PA students are always more aggressive about it. MD students seem to be more timid as to not offend and only go on the defensive.
 
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Yeah, I love when patients say “Oh he’s a doctors nurse”

I’m like eh? I mean I work with like 50 doctors. Never understood that.
 
This isnt an argument for MD/DO vs DPM. It is an argument for the risks of off-shore vs podiatry

BTW, all medicine has limits on scope of practice one way or another. True story: I once asked my long-time doctor why he went into internal medicine. He said his mother told him he should become a dentist. He said " I told her who wants to have their fingers in a wet mouth all day; no look where I have my fingers." He then he did a prostate exam. Of course, if you like golf, become a GI guy though 18 holes a day may take on a different meaning
Well ANYTHING beats offshore. I think I’d choose RN vs off shore because who wants to risk hundreds of thousands in debt with nothing to show for?
 
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None of them will when they’re in the hospital unless they’re real *****s.

As I understand, this is getting more and more common. There was a story in the news a couple years ago where a hospital was fighting a DNP who was insisting that she be called “Dr.”. And it sounds like more and more are doing this.

I recently received a communication from a Dr _______, and that’s even in her email address. She’s a DNP.

This is just too confusing for patients. And of course, everyone is wearing white coats these days.
 
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Takes 3 years for a PA to get a DO degree at LECOM-E. Not a bad deal for a PA to further their education in becoming a Physician.


I don’t know enough about the PA program, but 3 years seems excessive. PA’s already have a 30 month education (2.5 years). So why would they need another 3 to become physicians?
 
There is always alot of tension between the MD and PA students. There first line is always "despite the name we're not assistants to anyone."


I’m starting to see the title: Physician Associate

Is that a new thing to combat the “assistant” connotation?
 
I think it’s stupid that “Doctor” is used in academia at all. Until I was 25 or so I never understood the difference in PhD and MD myself. When someone said “I’m a doctor of history” it was really confusing for me, I can only imagine patients that are even more poorly educated.

(Don’t pick on me, I came from the backwoods)
 
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I don’t know enough about the PA program, but 3 years seems excessive. PA’s already have a 30 month education (2.5 years). So why would they need another 3 to become physicians?

Their education isn’t med school in 2.5 years like they tell everyone. Their courses are usually of less depth, and they don’t take all of them. Additionally, their clinicals are them rotating through the major specialties—as a PA student.
 
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Their education isn’t med school in 2.5 years like they tell everyone. Their courses are usually of less depth, and they don’t take all of them. Additionally, their clinicals are them rotating through the major specialties—as a PA student.
Interview reason #397 “Why do you want to be an MD/DO instead of NP/PA”

“I don’t believe in half assing or short cutting.”
 
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I think it’s stupid that “Doctor” is used in academia at all. Until I was 25 or so I never understood the difference in PhD and MD myself. When someone said “I’m a doctor of history” it was really confusing for me, I can only imagine patients that are even more poorly educated.

(Don’t pick on me, I came from the backwoods)

I have no issue with PhD’s calling themselves doctors in a university/teaching setting. I think many of us understand that a history prof is Dr. _____.

I don’t like that now DNPs, DPTs and some Pharmacists are now calling themselves doctors in a doc-office/hospital setting.
 
But see that’s still confusing, many of these work in both settings. So they have to alternate being Mr/Ms and Doctor back and forth. Academia should move towards a different title.
 
I have no issue with PhD’s calling themselves doctors in a university/teaching setting. I think many of us understand that a history prof is Dr. _____.

I don’t like that now DNPs, DPTs and some Pharmacists are now calling themselves doctors in a doc-office/hospital setting.

It's only going to get worse unless some drastic changes take place..for example:
A new degree to confuse patients more...dude should have just gone to an MD/DO school rather than doing whatever this is!

d950d5d2-5b48-4f35-9912-a2a77001965e.jpg
 
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It's only going to get worse unless some drastic changes take place..for example:
A new degree to confuse patients more...dude should have just gone to an MD/DO school rather than doing whatever this is!

View attachment 251473


Yes! That’s what I saw the other day! More confusion!

We already have people not understanding that DOs are physicians, but now we have the opposite problem....people thinking DNPs and PAs with DMS degrees are physicians.
 
But see that’s still confusing, many of these work in both settings. So they have to alternate being Mr/Ms and Doctor back and forth. Academia should move towards a different title.
Doctor has been the term for someone who has a Doctorate far longer than it has been a term for medical practitioners (and even longer than surgeons)
 
Doctor has been the term for someone who has a Doctorate far longer than it has been a term for medical practitioners (and even longer than surgeons)


Right, but in a hospital setting, doctors were typically physicians, except for the occasional psychologist (and it was clearly understood that the person is a psychologist not a physician).
 
It's only going to get worse unless some drastic changes take place..for example:
A new degree to confuse patients more...dude should have just gone to an MD/DO school rather than doing whatever this is!

View attachment 251473

Another autonomous* provider!



*working under supervision of a physician as it should be since they have less than half the training
 
From the AACPM website
https://www.aacpm.org/becoming-a-podiatric-physician/
Residency Training
After completing the four-year curriculum required by podiatric medical schools, a new podiatric physician is required to participate in residency training.
In general, states require a minimum of two years of postgraduate residency training in an approved healthcare institution. Board certified podiatric physicians are required to have two years of residency training. A residency provides an interdisciplinary experience with rotations such as anesthesiology, internal medicine, infectious disease, surgery, ER and pediatrics.

Residency training provides a combination of medical and surgical experiences that are competency-based. Podiatric medical graduates select a 36-month Podiatric Medicine and Surgery Residency (PMSR) that includes training in rear foot and ankle surgery.

I see. My mistake. I will look into the discrepancy on my end.
 
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I think the discrepancy maybe is the state podiatry boards as well as the podiatry academies still have 2 year PGY as the “legal” requirement where most “formal” residency programs are 3 years long. It was only a decade or so when about 1/2 of DPM grads did office based “externships” as their PGY

Thank you, that makes sense.

I based my statement on CASPR/CRIP catalogues. I did not realize the AACPM website had that listed.
 
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The issue here for most people is for those who cant gain access to MD or DO, what are the pros and cons of Off shore MD, DPM or Mid-level.
Reiterating from before, while thousands of people earn off-shore MD, get some residency spot, and become practicing physicians, at least as many who start per year never earn a degree or get into a residency spot. Podiatry offers a degree that leads becoming a practicing medical specialist , treating people, doing surgery, and being a doctor for your patients, for hospital staff, and to your MD/DO/DPM colleagues. Only premeds make it out to be a big difference. In clinical practice, nobody, including other physicians, care whether it is a MD, DO or DPM. Doctors care about the specialty whether foot, hand, elbow, shoulder, knee, wound care, etc. DPM can be involved in resident training for MD and DO in the areas of wound care, diabetic complications, athletic/sports medicine. DPM now have a mostly national requirement of two year residency moving to mostly three year programs.

So the question that I ask students is, do you risk thousands of dollars of debt in an off-shore school where you have a high percentage who do not earn a degree or do not get a residency slot, thus never practicing medicine, or do you consider podiatry?

Great post. Thank you for reclarifying things premeds have not seen yet. DPMs practice indistinguishably from MD/DO in the clinical setting. Just a few add ons for future premed readers.

There are many DPM that are involved in MD/DO surgical resident training and academic research. Ex: UT Southwestern and Georgetown, there are DPMs appointed as professors in Plastic Surgery. Vice Chair of Research in plastic surgery at Medstar Georgetown is a DPM. At Keck School of Medicine (USC), there is a DPM faculty involved in orthopedic residency training. At Baylor COM, there are DPMs as faculty in both the vascular surgery and ortho department.
 
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Can some DPMs/ DPM students discuss what part of their job they find the most interesting? I’m always looking for more options in case.
 
Can some DPMs/ DPM students discuss what part of their job they find the most interesting? I’m always looking for more options in case.
Just go take a look through the Pre-pod/DPM fora. I’m sure there are a lot of pretty informative discussions about podiatry over there, too.
 
Can some DPMs/ DPM students discuss what part of their job they find the most interesting? I’m always looking for more options in case.

Might be better to ring up a practicing podiatrist or shadow. Mileage varies. Some will tell you its a dead-end profession and to go do something else. Some will be very happy with where they're at and making decent money with a lot of hard work.

Things I liked after starting school:
- For the most part, patients go out happy and appreciative
- Procedural a lot of the times, hands on
- Specialized from the beginning (some people don't like this), I go in, get it done, go home. I am not sitting there for 2 hours wondering why their potassium is elevated.
- Variety within the foot, everything from fractures to gangrene to derm to biomechanics to trauma. What you choose to focus on and the cases that get sent to you might change after residency, but there is variety.
- The training is intense, pushes me to grow. I value that.

Biggest thing was shadowing. IM docs were over worked and miserable. Not saying most are, but the ones I shadowed were. All of the podiatrists I shadowed (who would let me, again mileage varies) were happy, had good relationships with their patients, and liked what they were doing.

Was pre-med during undergrad. Grades were not competitive enough for MD. Considered DPM, Opto, PA. This one was the only one that stayed in my head after 2-3 months. Thought I'd give it a try and here I am.

Relatives were all MD. Got a lot of **** from them, but I'm happy where I am and glad I chose it.
 
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One thing I don’t get is why there is a specialty outside of MD/DO for feet, but not hands, and other things just eyes and teeth. Which optometrists cannot be eye surgeons.
 
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One thing I don’t get is why there is a specialty outside of MD/DO for feet, but not hands, and other things just eyes and teeth. Which optometrists cannot be eye surgeons.
History.

Don't know off the top of my head but can read up on it and get back to you.
 
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I figure that’s what it is. Always seems to be the case, like MD and DO. There’s no real good reason they’re separate it seems, just that they’ve been for a long time.
 
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One thing I don’t get is why there is a specialty outside of MD/DO for feet, but not hands, and other things just eyes and teeth. Which optometrists cannot be eye surgeons.

C'mon over to the podiatry forum and ask your questions. We're a friendly bunch. And the answer is all history and politics.
 
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Can some DPMs/ DPM students discuss what part of their job they find the most interesting? I’m always looking for more options in case.

1) Sport Medicine/biomechanic
- Almost all major sports like NBA, NFL have a team physician is a DPM. DPM treat from professional athletes to weekend warrior.
- Perhaps @Angus Avagadro can elaborate his experience with his DPM friend?

2) Foot and Ankle Surgery
- There are many DPMs in orthopedic group as their foot and ankle surgeons.They treat from bunion, trauma, pilon fracture, charoct foot reconstruction to total ankle replacement.
- There is an orthopedic group in ohio only see Foot and Ankle. They have total 7 MD/DO/DPM. They also have fellowship training for orthopedic and Podiatric surgeons.

3) Limb salvage/Diabetic Foot
- Wound care is a multi-billion dollar industry. Now many vasuclar surgeon, plastic surgeon, interventional cardiologist/radiologist are involved.
- According to CDC, more than 100 million U.S. adults are now living with diabetes or prediabetes. 1/4 of those patients will develop diabetic foot ulcer. ( Estimated annual US burden of diabetic foot ulcer is 15 billion)
- Almost all the major hospitals have limb salvage center and are co-chaired by vascular and podiatric surgeons.

Just simply check out the authors from this paper sponsored American Diabetes Association. Very well known doc from UK, chairman of dermatology and cutaneous surgery, chief of vasuclar Surgery, plastic surgeon, and 3 DPMs.1 DPM is professor in 3 different departments.

However, Podiatric Medicine and Surgery is not for eveyrone. Go shadow one and find out if this is a career for you.
 

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Were you interested in feet before you started? I feel like if I did dentistry, opto, pod, etc it would be for the schedule or pay. I think what interests me about medicine is that I would be able to fix a broader array of problems, and when I got bored of one facet, I could study another area, even if my scope remained the same.
 
Were you interested in feet before you started? I feel like if I did dentistry, opto, pod, etc it would be for the schedule or pay. I think what interests me about medicine is that I would be able to fix a broader array of problems, and when I got bored of one facet, I could study another area, even if my scope remained the same.

I mean at the end of the day its all just a job.

Idk what specialty you're talking about tho. At the end of the day every physician is limited in one way or another. Even tho you license is an unlimited you're still limited by whatever the state regs are for which state you're certified in and by what the hospital credential you to do.

Also I don't know what you mean just study another area. You mean the option to go back through residency? Move to a different patient population? Do a fellowship? I don't know what percentage of physicians go back through residency or fellowship after years of practicing but I can't imagine its a high number. At the end of the day you treat what comes in. Where probs up to 70% of cases are same old same old and only the 30% is new interesting stuff.

Also as I've mentioned. Within podiatry there is plenty of opportunity to "focus on another" area of medicine. See previous post for many examples.
 
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I mean let’s say I’m a hospitalist or critical care doc. I can study each organ system in depth. Even if I’m not the specialist in say cardiac, renal, etc it’s still very directly related to the scope and I can put it to use.

Let’s say I’m a podiatrist, I could study cardiac for fun, but outside of osteo, derm, vascular, etc directly related to the foot would it serve me any use?
 
I mean let’s say I’m a hospitalist or critical care doc. I can study each organ system in depth. Even if I’m not the specialist in say cardiac, renal, etc it’s still very directly related to the scope and I can put it to use.

Let’s say I’m a podiatrist, I could study cardiac for fun, but outside of osteo, derm, vascular, etc directly related to the foot would it serve me any use?

Well I would argue that cardio and vascular are very interrelated. Specially when considering the inability to return blood to the heart from IDK venous pooling in the lower extremity will affect cardiac output and cause compensatory physiological responses. So no you won't be treating the heart in anyway but you could maybe work with a cardiologist and vascular surgeon and do some research

For renal you could study lets say gout which typically effects the joints in the foot and is caused by a problem with nitrogen metabolism. You could study that and work with a nephrologist and do some research.

I'm not saying its typical for podiatrist to be doing this kinda stuff. I'm just saying its possible.

So literally every system except maybe anything involving perineum can be related to podiatric medicine. Not saying clinically it's always relevant. Just saying all systems work together.
 
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I mean let’s say I’m a hospitalist or critical care doc. I can study each organ system in depth. Even if I’m not the specialist in say cardiac, renal, etc it’s still very directly related to the scope and I can put it to use.

Let’s say I’m a podiatrist, I could study cardiac for fun, but outside of osteo, derm, vascular, etc directly related to the foot would it serve me any use?
David Armstrong, PhD, DPM - Los Angeles, CA - Surgical Wound Care, Vascular Surgery - Request Appointment

https://www.google.com/amp/s/diabet...ver-neurosurgery-grand-rounds-keckmedusc/amp/


Looks like it does.
 
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At my hospital that I was working at, we have badge buddies. The "Physician" badge is reserved for MD, DO, MBBS, DPM (we don't have dentist). Everyone else, whether they're DNP, DRNA, PA, CNM, all have their specific badge buddy that states it. So at my place, you can introduce yourself as "doctor" all you want, but you will never have a "Physician" badge unless you're a physician. Some NPs who are sour about the situation asked for a "Doctor" badge but the hospital refused.
 
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At my hospital that I was working at, we have badge buddies. The "Physician" badge is reserved for MD, DO, MBBS, DPM (we don't have dentist). Everyone else, whether they're DNP, DRNA, PA, CNM, all have their specific badge buddy that states it. So at my place, you can introduce yourself as "doctor" all you want, but you will never have a "Physician" badge unless you're a physician. Some NPs who are sour about the situation asked for a "Doctor" badge but the hospital refused.

Uh, good. You want patients to refer to you as a physician, go to ****ing medical school.
 
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Uh, good. You want patients to refer to you as a physician, go to ****ing medical school.

I didn't hear it verbatim but I believe the hospital admin stated that it causes too much confusion for patients if they change the badge to Doctor to satisfy everyone. They're very serious about isolating the specific role of everyone on the team. If there's any disagreement, 99% of the time they will consult and accept the opinion of a physician. They treat their physician right and will do whatever they can to retain their physician roster. This isn't to say that the NP and PAs aren't having a lot of freedom. But from what I've seen, the dynamic is very nice and nonmalignant. But you always have a few rouge ones that believe their 38 years of nursing experience override the orders of a physician. I mainly see behaviors like this in the ER. Thank God I won't be returning to that pit anytime soon.
 
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At my hospital that I was working at, we have badge buddies. The "Physician" badge is reserved for MD, DO, MBBS, DPM (we don't have dentist). Everyone else, whether they're DNP, DRNA, PA, CNM, all have their specific badge buddy that states it. So at my place, you can introduce yourself as "doctor" all you want, but you will never have a "Physician" badge unless you're a physician. Some NPs who are sour about the situation asked for a "Doctor" badge but the hospital refused.

American Academy of Emergency Medicine made a statement that APPs and other non-physician clinicians should not even be called ‘doctor’ in the clinical settings.

American Academy of Emergency Medicine
 
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What is a badge buddy?
 
It's like a second badge under the title. So it'll say MD on your badge, and then right underneath there will be a second one that says PHYSICIAN. At least that's what they were at my hospital.
Our badges all look like this at the bottom with whatever profession we are.
image.jpg
 
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It's like a second badge under the title. So it'll say MD on your badge, and then right underneath there will be a second one that says PHYSICIAN. At least that's what they were at my hospital.


? Because some people might not know that a MD is a physician?

I wonder what the badge buddy would say under a DNP?

Badge says: DNP
Badge Buddy says: not a physician
 
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Might be helpful for DO etc. many nurses I work with don’t even know what they are. In fact almost none.
 
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? Because some people might not know that a MD is a physician?

I wonder what the badge buddy would say under a DNP?

Badge says: DNP
Badge Buddy says: not a physician

It’s for patients. Not everyone knows what DO or DPM means. At our place, NPs and PAs had a badge buddy that said “mid-level.”
 
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? Because some people might not know that a MD is a physician?

I wonder what the badge buddy would say under a DNP?

Badge says: DNP
Badge Buddy says: not a physician
I've seen badge buddies that say "Physician," "Resident Physician," "Physician Assistant," and "Nurse Practitioner." The resident vs attending distinction is helpful, and the others can be useful to patients who might be confused by the various PA/PA-C/RPA-C badges and what the difference might be (which is none).
 
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