Fourth Year Grades

[buckIdoc]

How important are fourth year grades for getting interviews? Do these have the same weight as 3rd year clerkships (specifically SUB-I and other IM electives)?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[efex101]

First of all, most transcripts submitted will not have many 4th year grades. Mine only had sub-I..

 

[buckIdoc]

I think our MSPE and/or departmental letter should have at least a few fourth year grades.

 

[efex101]

The MSPE should have more grades but these do not become available to programs until November. The departmental LOR may have a few 4th year grades depending on how *fast* you get these from the folks that are evaluating you. You can certainly get interviews with as few as 1-2 LOR.

 

[buckIdoc]

thanks for the responses efex, but I don't think you answered the question.

assuming programs have your fourth year grades, how helpful or harmful can they be to your application?

 

[VCMM414]

IM sub-I grade can be important. A good one will go a long way, plus it can also lead to a good LOR. For example, I believe UTSW didn't require a chairman's letter back when I applied, but instead encouraged that applicants submit a letter from sub I attending.

Other elective grades are likely less important, but I can't be sure of this.

 

[efex101]

Sorry, I already have interviews and there was only ONE 4th year grade in my transcript my sub-I so not sure how helpful or not it was....I think (but this is my own opinion) that if you did not honor 3rd year IM and honors in 4th year sub-I will be very helpful.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There is no one answer to this question. Different programs will weigh Sub-I and other fourth year grades differently. In general, more weight is put on third year grades, because they are much more standardized.

 

[fun8stuff]

There is no one answer to this question. Different programs will weigh Sub-I and other fourth year grades differently. In general, more weight is put on third year grades, because they are much more standardized.

third year grades standardized?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

third year grades standardized?

OK, I deserved that.

What I meant was that the MSPE at least gives us the spread of H/HP/P (or A/B/C) of the third year grades. When I see an Honors or Pass in a SubI, I have no idea what that means. At our associated medical school, a Pass in a medicine Sub I means you are completely non functional on the wards -- however you'd only know this if you were an insider.

 

[buckIdoc]

i wonder if that is true nationwide. At my school, the IM people did not like to give out too many honors/high passes during third year and I get the impression they do the same for fourth year. The only difference being there is no shelf after the test so the grade is based purely on ward performance.

 

[DJ LACTULOSE]

i feel like some schools just hand out honors to 50% of their students. it really sucks when you come from an institution where only 5-10% of the students get honors.

i wonder if program directors are aware of this disparity.

at my school, the people getting 3rd year honors in IM were often gunners going into ENT/derm/plastics (of course, they acted like they were going into IM during the rotation ).

 

[SippiGirl08]

our school doesn't have honors/ high pass/ pass or even A/B/C. our numerical grades are used for class ranking purposes, but only pass/fail shows on our transcript. depending on rotation, 50-60% of students make A's... you tell me how programs can compare us across the board.

as for fourth year grades, we don't even get numerical grades here. strictly pass/fail. and IF any actual evaluations exist, i have yet to see them... so no, i don't think fourth year grades have any real effect on your chances of interviewing. i only have grades from one fourth year rotation on my transcript and i've gotten 12 interview invites and counting!


disclaimer: i'm going into OB, NOT IM

 

[DJ LACTULOSE]

OB and IM???

 

[buckIdoc]

that is an interesting grading system, 60% A's and no evaluations. seems like a tough place to figure out who deserves the grades and who does not (not that the grading system in clerkships is necessarily fair). Either way it seems to be working for you. Are you getting invites from university IM programs or mostly community? Most in OB or IM?

I guess I thought for some reason people cared how you did on your SubI. I did it early so that it would show up on my MSPE and departmental letters.

Is this common in other schools? No evaluations?

 

[SippiGirl08]

sorry, i guess i didn't explain that very well. our third-year grades are based on our score on the shelf exam/mini-board as well as our evaluations.... those two factors have different weight on different clerkships, but they are all eventually converted to a numerical grade. our evals have rankings from 1-10 with a box for comments at the end, but we DON'T get any distinctions such as pass/high pass/honors. residency programs only see the number... so they know i made an 89 in surgery and a 97 in FM, but they never see the comments people wrote ("3rd year student functions at the level of many interns").

our fourth-year "grades" are strictly pass/fail, but i think as long as you show up (and sometimes even if you don't), you pass...

people do care how you do on your SubI, but I got all my LoRs from attendings on my SubI, so those letters will tell programs how i did, not my transcript.

and I meant that i'm applying in OB, NOT IM, since this is an IM thread...

btw, 10 interviews at university, 2 at community

 

[Scutpuppy007]

I Matched at my #1 IM program with only one 4th year grade listed on my transcript/MSPE ---- and that was from a Pediatric elective.

I do think that LOR's of recommendations in your field are as important, if not more so, than 4th year grades. When I was interviewing last year, certain interviewers would actually read parts of my LOR's to me. Someone else I know Honored all of her 4th year rotations and failed to Match in a highly competitive subspecialty. She was questioned numerous times about a negative comment in one of her LORS. By the way, I hadn't even done my 4th year Acting Internship when most of my interview offers starting coming in.

 

[pdintheusa]

I'm just one PD, but I'm not so sure 4th year grades are particularly helpful. As others have mentioned, many schools routinely give Honors or A's to most 4th years.

I'd find a letter from your attending on your subI describing your exemplary performance much more helpful than seeing an "H" on your transcript.

 

[fantasty]

Why didn't I go to one of these schools that gives out all honors? Our school only gives honors to 15% of the students and near honors to 15%.

 

[NDESTRUKT]

They can see on your student transcript what percentage of people got H, HP, and P. So a school with 50% H's won't mean much.

 

[MSI-Scrub]

They can see on your student transcript what percentage of people got H, HP, and P. So a school with 50% H's won't mean much.

I don't think our transcripts release that kind of information...Not the copy that I saw anyways...not sure...

 

[efex101]

Our school does include percentages next to our grade.

 

[fantasty]

Plus, I think it's expected to be included in the MSPE