Freak Gunners or just good students?

Med School Insiders
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Shades McCool

Shades McCool

Kal-el
7+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
889
Reaction score
1
Members don't see this ad.
I keep hearing people talk about freak gunners in the pre-med classes. I am just wondering this: do you all think someone who works really hard and gets their A is a freak gunner or just a good student? I think there is a big difference in some respects, but they are similar too.

I think they are similar because they both will not settle for anything less than an A. I think a gunner stems further from that in trying to hurt the other students in route to get their A.

What if you don't try to hurt others, but do not go out of your way to help them either?

What does everyone think of that?
 
Pre-dents and Pre-meds share the same classes and I have a 4.0 in my post-bac.

There is a difference. A gunner in my opinion doesn't have to be someone who tries to jeopardize other students. I think these students are rare. Most people are fair. And anway, most students don't have the power to truly affect another person's grade. You reap what you sow. No gunner can take away from that. If you study, you get your A.

To me a gunner is someone who is hostile in his or her behavior. You see them in class. They don't talk to anyone. They say nothing of their grades. They don't try to help anyone out with general questions etc. They are kind of prissy in their behavior. Those are gunners in my opinion. You can tell who the gunners are on this forum as well.
 
Oh I agree with you. I myself have the gunner's mentality. I care about only one person and that is me. I don't go out of my way to hurt anyone but I don't really help unless I am asked....by a good looking girl 😉 haha.

I know people don't like the fact that I get my 4.0 every semester but I really don't mind. I work as hard as I need to and I play the rest of the time. I just think people think some people are gunners when they are actually good students.
 
Do remember though that the secret to success in life is who you know and not what you know. I used to work so I can relate to that statement much more than people who have never worked.

The last thing you want to do is burn bridges. So while getting a 4.0 is great, you don't want to rub any of your classmates the wrong way. You never know when you will need them or run into them again. Your classmates can be your best allies and gunner unfortunately aren't aware of this. You don't want to be labeled a gunner. Being labeled a hard worker is one thing but a gunner carries a negative connotation.

Keep your gunner mentality and study habits but make sure you network with your classmates and get to them. You would be surpised what assets they can be as far as sharing information goes. Plus, if you end up going to the same medical school, you will be the guy that they were cool with in college as opposed to the jerkoff they remembered and will let everyone else at your new medical school in on.

If I get an A in a class or an exam, I'm the first to say that I studied my ass off. You won't hear me lying about studying only an hour before the exam. I'm very open about that and my classmates respect me for my honesty. Even if you only did study an hour, I would lie and say you worked your ass. It sort of makes it okay in their heads if you got your A because chances are they didn't study that much. 🙂

Good luck bro
 
Oh I am not a jerk either. I am cool with everyone because besides with my school, I am very laid back. Well all hang out together outside of class anyways. I just always study on my own.
 
I love medicine, but I cannot major in that. So I major in Molecular Biology because it is so damn interesting.
 
What's the point of this whole 'gunner' thing?

If one works hard, one deserves to (and likely will) get good grades. If person A works hard for his/her grades and does not feel like helping out person B, there is nothing wrong with that. If person A worked especially hard, and gave up his/her friday night to learn the material, why should s/he teach person B (who went out and partied on friday night) the material so that person B will do well? That would be undermining person A's own efforts.

Inherent in trying to get into medical school is the idea of competition. As we're all aware, there are many more applicants trying to get in than there are spots available. Simply because one studies a lot and is not very sociable does not make him/her a gunner.

And networking? Granted, there is a networking issue to everything in life. Granted, we'll all have to sell ourselves at some point in our journies. But, to network as an undergrad is not part of the game. Study hard, and you'll do well in school.

By the way, in case it matters, I have a group of 3 friends that I study with. We all do well. However, we are not really open to letting new people in our group. That doesn't make us gunners, or if it does, I won't accept the negativity that the word connotes. Letting others into our group would disrupt our equilibrium, so why do it? If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
 
I really don't have time to do much. As you should be able to tell from what I wrote, I was being funny. I have so many other things going on that all I have time for is studying enough for me to do well.
 
Originally posted by Shades McCool
So I major in Molecular Biology because it is so damn interesting.
Click to expand...

HAHAHA! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

🙄
 
I like to know how it is that DNA and RNA and all exist and work.
 
Originally posted by Mike59
HAHAHA! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

🙄
Click to expand...

I think molecular bio is pretty interesting myself. I dont know what you're trying to imply Mike59 🙄
 
I just hate that if you are going to get your A, you get labeled as some kind of gunner.
 
Originally posted by Shades McCool
I just hate that if you are going to get your A, you get labeled as some kind of gunner.
Click to expand...

I have never heard of people getting A's as being automatically gunners. Its the way you carry yourself and go about doing your work that determines if you are a gunner, not your grade.

Then again, tons of people on SDN seem to think that having a high GPA and a high MCAT means you automatically dont' have social skills. There will always be those who want to devalue your just accomplishments, even if you did it simply out of interest in the material and competition within yourself. Just remember that they usually make these accusations out of envy and spite to make themselves feel better rather than any real concern about your character.
 
Oh I know how it is, I have myself one wild social life! I get around everywhere I need to be. I think the key to it all is being able to spend the right amount of time on certain things at the right time.
 
gunners = grade grubbers, people that never fail to argue with the professor about how many points they should get for a particular answer. Sadly too many professors will give away points out of awkwardness/desire to get the whiney little bitch away from them
gunners=the kid who asks the teacher if they got the highest grade in the class, or if not, who tied/bettered them. Dude, you got an A, relax. If someone else got a higher A doesnt negate the A you got
gunners=the kid who wont stop to answer a simple question you have, even though you just spent a half hour explaining some concept to them.
there are more, but thats enough for now. I dont agree that that quiet kid who sits in the corner and doesnt talk much during class is a gunner though. That defines me in most of my classes, but if some one asks me a question or for help I am always more than happy to spend as long as it takes (within reason) to explain it to them. some people are quiet in class just because they dont like going. 😉
 
I could care less if someone else has a higher A than me. I just want the A, thats all.
 
oh no, I must have the HIGHEST A........😉 or not.... 😛
 
ok, don't kill me when i say this, but i think for the most part, 'the gunner' term is what people who get Bs call the people who get As.

for the most part, there are very few people who want the absolute highest grade in the class and will do anything to get it... and are these the people who really annoy you anyway? the students that annoy me are the ones that the teacher absolutely loves. (ok, im human) if someone studies really hard, and gets a really high A - good for them, they earned it.

i could care less how my classmates do in my class. i want my friends to do well, and i will help them if they need it - because im a friend. but as far as everyone else goes, they can all pass or they can all fail, whatever.

i never understood the gunner term. i get really good grades, but i dont flaunt it. and you know what? i happen not be one of those people who studies all the time, but ive got no problem with the people that do - whatever floats it, baby.
 
Originally posted by dentalvibe8881


To me a gunner is someone who is hostile in his or her behavior. You see them in class. They don't talk to anyone. They say nothing of their grades. They don't try to help anyone out with general questions etc. They are kind of prissy in their behavior. Those are gunners in my opinion. You can tell who the gunners are on this forum as well.
Click to expand...

Originally posted by Jimi Thing
gunners = grade grubbers, people that never fail to argue with the professor about how many points they should get for a particular answer.
gunners=the kid who asks the teacher if they got the highest grade in the class, or if not, who tied/bettered them. Dude, you got an A, relax. If someone else got a higher A doesnt negate the A you got
gunners=the kid who wont stop to answer a simple question you have, even though you just spent a half hour explaining some concept to them.
_________________

HOLY ****....these are the MOST PERFECT definitions of gunners I have ever heard of.
They both need to be archived somewhere for future reference.
It totally describes this dingus gunner that used to go to my undergrad. During a span of 6 months during his junior year he was able to alienate or completely irritate any person he met and subsequently did not have a single friend during this time, but that's what he deserves...he was the jerk not everyone else.
 
gunners...

I'd like to address a side aspect of that whole mentality: effort vs achievement.

I believe it to be a hard to dispute fact that some people have an easier time doing as well at something (we'll limit it to academia, but obviously the same is true in sports etc although in a different way) than their peers. The problem with this is that nobody wants to believe that, or at least be reminded of it. That's why people who do well need to be sensitive, I believe.

Many people on this forum have been in the situation where you study with a friend and that friend does consistently different than you on tests. Some of us do better, some of us have friends who are really gifted. The one with the gifts has multiple responsibilities: to use them well and to attempt some sensitivity about those gifts.

As far as gunners in the way that everyone else has talked about them, I do know a few. My definition: those people who do well, but somehow either the amount of work they do or the attitude they adopt to inspire themselves to work changes them from someone who you could be friends with to someone who you'd rather avoid. However, those people don't really matter- my good friends, who I share goals with (ie, medical school etc.) are the ones who I care about and I hope that no matter how they or I do, that will not add tension to our friendship.
 
Hmm, looks like everybody's got a different definition of the term "gunner". Mine is similar to most of the ones posted thus far, but what I think a gunner is:

-Someone who acts arrogant and won't stop to help other people

-Someone who gets angry enough to punch you in the arm when you mention that your grade is an A- (this actually happened to me about a week ago)...by the way, this is a class where about 16 people have better than an A-, so I don't understand why the person punched me

-Someone who is so worried about having the highest grade in the class and is unhappy when someone else has a higher grade

-Someone who sabotages other peoples' labs

With that said, I myself admit to having been a (partial) gunner. I used to be angry that other people got better grades than me and I didn't answer other peoples' questions because I was too mad at the fact that they got higher grades. I did and still do care about WHAT I'M LEARNING, though, because it is very important for me to understand concepts and such. I mean, what's the point of a stupid grade if you learned diddly squat in the class?

I'm not one anymore though (at least I don't think I am anymore)...if somebody has a higher grade, then I go to that person for help on the material now (before consulting a tutor anyway). Plus, I do stop to try and explain concepts to people who don't understand them.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with gunners unless they actually try to screw their classmates (cheating, sabotaging labs, etc.). Then, I'd report them to the professor or the lab instructor.
 
When I went back to school I would often ask myself "What are you willing to do to get into medical school?" It served primarily as a motivation tool and a way of focusing my priorities.

A gunner is one who would answer that question with "Actively work to keep my competiton down so that I'm on top" Gunners are the ones who sabotage ochem experiments, give false info to classmates, treat everyone else as the enemy.

If you're a successful student, but antisocial, then you're not necessarily a gunner, just antisocial. If you're a successful student who tries to bring others with you, you'll be well regarded as well. Being well regarded is good; the medical business is referral based and you very much reap what you sew.😀

mdf


USUHS Class of 2007
 
Hmmm... Does it count if you sabotage your *own* orgo experiments? They never, ever worked right, and they took SO long! We would sabotage our own labs to get the results we were "supposed to get," and then we would go home early. Does that make me a gunner? 😎

My definition of a gunner is very simple. A gunner is someone who places his studies above all else. To a gunner, it's more important to memorize every detail of the material in order to assure a 100 on an exam than to go pursue some extracurricular activities, whatever they might be, and get a 95. An A is an A is an A, but the gunner wants the highest A. Gunners are also classified by their inability to excel at anything that does not take place in the structured, fairytale land of the classroom. In the "real world" these people fail miserably at making friends, succeeding at a job, and even buying their groceries, for example.

Oh, btw, a gunner is also someone who is overly worried about being labeled a gunner. If you're worried that your behavior might label you as a gunner, then guess what? It does. 🙄
 
I think Tamomo has the best def, of a gunner but let me add some.

A gunner is someone one you ask if they want to study with you and they flat out just say NO way.

A gunner is someone who walks into class on midterm day telling everyone he's going to ace the midterm.

A gunner is someone who wears his/her top choice med school sweatshirt to your mcat prep classes

A gunner is the person who tells every one I read the book three times before a test.

I hate this person!
😡
 
seriously, with the definition of the "gunner" that you guys are giving, i can't imagine how you would run into more than one or two of these guys in your life. not everyone is out to get you.

who sabatoges lab experiments?

btw, IrishOarsman has the best post on this thread. he's right on.
 
Originally posted by indyzx

who sabatoges lab experiments?
Click to expand...

CHEM 036, Spring Quarter 1991:

denali (returning from glassware rack): "Dude, where's the watchglass with the crystals on it?"

LabPartner (returning from dumping organic solvent in waste receptacle): "Right by the vacuum flask... hey, where is it?!"

denali & LabPartner search the benchtop, the drainage moat, bench drawers, etc. for 10 minutes. LabPartner finds watchglass in cleanup sink with some stray crystals left. Neither denali or LabPartner had taken anything to cleanup sink yet.

denali: "From now on, one of us ALWAYS stays with our stuff..."

LabPartner: "No ****"

I didn't think it happened either...

mdf
 
Whats wrong with saying you are going to ace the midterm?
 
if you don't know you must be a gunner, -j/k

its cool if you tell your friends or someone you know that you studied hard and you think you have a good shot at an A.

But, only gunners would walk in and announce to the WHOLE class (people you don't even know) and say "Im geting an A on this genetics midterm". come on 😛
 
Some of these I agree with but..

"A gunner is someone one you ask if they want to study with you and they flat out just say NO way."

I say that just because I can't study well in a group I learn more by myself..........nothing wrong with saying no in my opp.

"A gunner is someone who wears his/her top choice med school sweatshirt to your mcat prep classes"

I dont see anything wrong with this..................I know for some of us the MCAT is a long draining marathon...............so whatever keeps you motivated is fine...............I guess it could depend on how its carried off.
 
I still think people throw the term around too much. I have even read about people scheduling classes around when they think there will be fewer gunners in their classes.
 
"A gunner is someone one you ask if they want to study with you and they flat out just say NO way."

I say that just because I can't study well in a group I learn more by myself..........nothing wrong with saying no in my opp.

- it's ok if you don't work well with others, I like studying on my own for some classes. But in my case I asked this person and well I got the No, I saw her studying with two other peps from our class that same night. That just sucks a$$😉
 
I have only done it a couple of times. I was in a small class of 8 this summer and we all got to know each other really well. We all studied together and all the good stuff.

We were sitting waiting for the teacher to come give us the test. Everyone was frantically studying and I was sitting on top of my desk. One girl looked at me and asked if I was worried and I said "Nope, I am going to ace this bitch". I only did it because I knew everyone in the room. I did ace it too so I was right!
 
Originally posted by dentalvibe8881
Adcoms know that certain students are jerks but they admit them anyway because every school needs to fill it's fair share of surgeons. Seriously, some of the brightest people are jerks and med schools know those people will probably end becoming orthopedic surgeons. If they only admitted cool and laid back people, no one would apply for harsh residencies ie..the ones the jerks want to go into.

And if you think about it, the harsh residencies require a lot of mental toughness, stamina and insensitivity. You need people in those programs who are driven and cuthroat. Trust me, schools know who these students are.
Click to expand...

Ok talk about overgeneralization!! I'm definitely not a gunner, never have been, never will be, or a jerk but I have mental toughness and stamina from being an athlete and actor and I want (at this point anyway) to go into orthopedic surgery. I've been told I'm "cool and laid back" in an academic setting, but I can be as competitive as I need to be when it's called for. Does that mean I shouldn't be a surgeon? I don't think so! Or that I'm automatically a jerk if I want to be a surgeon? Again, I don't think so! Just because you're nice to fellow students doens't mean you can't go for and succeed at a hard residency or that only jerks apply for those residencies...

--Jessica, UCCS
 
Reading all these descriptions of gunners, I'm really curious to know exactly what kind of stunts some of these wiley saboteurs are pulling off. I mean, sure you could throw out someone else's crystals in lab or whatever--but get caught even once and you'd probably get kicked out of school. That kind of behavior is so far outside of the realm of acceptability that it doesn't jive at all with my idea of super-competitive premeds, who tend to be law-abiding conformists to the core.

More common, I think, are students who are so dumb they end up screwing themselves up more than anyone else. For example, in one bio lab, some idiot stole my fruit flies during our genetics experiment. But our prof had records of which parent flies we checked out (duh), so the thieves, whoever they were, must have really been up a creek when they tried to do their chi square!

The students who annoy me the most are the total suck ups--the ones who devote their entire lives to padding their resumes and transcripts with whatever they've been told "adcoms like to see." Often times these students don't seem to have a critical or imaginative thought in their head--unless it's one that an authority figure--a teacher, researcher, advisor, adcom member, whatever--planted there.

As far as marching into class and announcing you're going to ace a quiz--all the power to you! (Although, personally, I think people that feel the constant need to brag about themselves have zero social skills.) But if you DON'T ace it, you've just made a total fool of yourself.
 
I wasn't bragging. I was just being confident going in. Most everyone else was scared and I think it helps to be confident and relaxed instead of uptight.
 
Jessica

YOu are right, I was overgeneralizing. However, there is some truth to surgeons being arrogant. Let's not deny reality either.

Colorado

I agree with your assessment. But if you are searching for reasons why adcoms admit pricks, I gave you one....from an adcom herself in more or less words.

Regarding the Adcom thing, we all know students who got 40 on the MCAT. Unfortunately, they lack the ability to even fake it like they are a normal person for 30 minutes. Granted they aren't offensive, but it doesn't take a half a brain to realize that person is probably someone you couldn't relate to or want to even spend 5 minutes talking to. You think medical school pass up people like this? Of course not, some school will take him because regardless of what anyone thinks, people who score 40 on the MCAT are talented. And talented people are needed in medicine. They make exceptions.
 
Originally posted by GuamGuy
A gunner is someone who only cares about his grade. A good student is someone who truly wants to learn the material for what it is worth. I majored in Biochemistry...not to be a gunner and get into a top med school... but because I truly love it.
Click to expand...



Is there anything wrong with taking a class just for the grade? I gotta admit that in most of my classes, I couldn't care less how much of the stuff I remember as long as I get an good grade. Actually I try to take some "easy" classes to maybe fluff up the ol' GPA. Is there anything inherently wrong with that? I'm not a prick about it or anything, just want to do well.
 
Originally posted by Entei
Hmmm... Does it count if you sabotage your *own* orgo experiments? They never, ever worked right, and they took SO long! We would sabotage our own labs to get the results we were "supposed to get," and then we would go home early.
Click to expand...

I loved Orgo lab just because it was such a fun chance to beat the system: everyone goes as fast as possible and, well, if 10 people get black goo, the other 3 people just have to be all the more exacting in splitting their lucky product 🙂

oh, and thanks for the props indyzx. i think i've been thinking about stuff like that for a long time, well before I had ever heard the term gunner.
 
Originally posted by jeffsleepy
Is there anything wrong with taking a class just for the grade? I gotta admit that in most of my classes, I couldn't care less how much of the stuff I remember as long as I get an good grade. Actually I try to take some "easy" classes to maybe fluff up the ol' GPA. Is there anything inherently wrong with that? I'm not a prick about it or anything, just want to do well.
Click to expand...


It's not that you remember the stuff neccessarily that makes it important (unless you're talkin' about med school that is). It's what you LEARNED, and how it has sort of changed you. I don't think that there's anything wrong with wanting a good grade, but if you ONLY FOCUS on the grade, then yes, I do think that there's something wrong, because you don't get the point of an education.

My sig comes from being fed up with people who concentrate only on the grades and have no concept of what an education really means. You gotta realize what it means to get an education. It's not just a doorway to your future, and it's not just something that's "required" of you...school is not necessarily education.

Whoops, sorry 'bout the rant but I kinda get mad when people don't see the point in getting an education.
 
To me, a true gunner is the person who has a this goal in mind- say being a dermatologist- and everything they do seems connected to attaining this goal. They get A's- not because they are interested, but because they want a high GPA. They volunteer in the ER, not because they enjoy helping out, but because they can put it on their AMCAS. They don't help you out, because they are afraid helping you will wreck the grade curve. They grade-grub. They kiss the ass of their clinical instructors hoping to get good written evals.

In other words, they see their entire education as a means to an end, and don't care about taking occasional ethical shortcut to succeed. They don't enjoy their schooling, only worry about their grades and dream about the $500,000 house and Porche in the driveway. Luckily, true gunners are pretty rare I think (there was no-one at my undergrad who completely fit this profile) and I would guess eventually they aren't so successful because no-one will want to work with them.
 
Originally posted by IrishOarsman
gunners...

I'd like to address a side aspect of that whole mentality: effort vs achievement.

I believe it to be a hard to dispute fact that some people have an easier time doing as well at something (we'll limit it to academia, but obviously the same is true in sports etc although in a different way) than their peers. The problem with this is that nobody wants to believe that, or at least be reminded of it. That's why people who do well need to be sensitive, I believe.

Many people on this forum have been in the situation where you study with a friend and that friend does consistently different than you on tests. Some of us do better, some of us have friends who are really gifted. The one with the gifts has multiple responsibilities: to use them well and to attempt some sensitivity about those gifts.
Click to expand...

I agree. My friends and family alwyas say that I am naturally "gifted" and intelligent, which I do not dispute; they just don't always realize how much I put in as well. I have acquired the reputation of getting my grades "easily." This is likely because:

I don't panic about tests at all; I am always very calm and relaxed. Panicking will not help me pass, ya know?

I take tests quickly (usually the first one finished). I either know it or I don't. If I don't, I take an educated guess and leave; I don't change answers. That's just my style, but it intimidates people.

I study alone. I simply cannot study in a group; I always end up tutoring someone or the study group focuses on things that I already know. Once again, just a personal choice, but it upsets people.

I don't divulge my grades (except to my good friends, who want to know and are proud of me 🙂 ). I've had people ask and ask and ask (THOSE are the gunners) and finally told them and they would do things like insult me if I got a B. 🙄

I am very dedicated to my studies and I work really hard (most of the time) and people have the impression that I'm some kind of aloof genius (ha! hello 3.5 gpa). Anyway, I guess my point is not to assume that someone is a gunner or arrogant unless they display classic gunner qualities (e.g. the aforementioned destruction of labs).
 
😡
Gunners! They're taking over my school like a fungus. They're the ones that sit up in the front row, laugh at every horrible joke of the professors, go to every office hour, make orgo home videos... i could go on, but I'm afraid I'll just incriminate myself.

It's tough to avoid when it's all around you. :scared:
 
Maybe some people should work as hard as a gunner to see it pays off.
 
so, I have never ever heard the term "gunner" before this board - is it really that common??

My own version of it is the "psycho premed", which I guess translates to basically the same thing...

Personally, I always had the attitude that if I was going to spend the rest of my life being a doctor, why the hell would I want to devote my entire college career to it as well, when college was likely the last chance I'd ever have to experience such a breadth of academic and extracurricular diversity...?

I guess my goal was always to know and understand as much of the world as I could, and if I had to sacrifice that to go to med school than going wasn't worth it.

Am I the only one who feels this way?
 
About divulging grades:
It's annoying when people try to guilt you into revealing your grades by telling you their marks in excruciating detail, completely unasked and unwanted, and then ask, "So, how about you? What did you get?"🙄
 
washkeep :
They're the ones that sit up in the front row, laugh at every horrible joke of the professors
------
ooh, yeah...I hate it when people laugh at profs' dumb jokes like they are hilarious...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C17H21NO4
Resigning from clinical job, good or bad idea?
Replies
3
Views
820
Goro
Goro
Goro
Good students, this is what you're going into Medicine for.
Replies
7
Views
2K
sarcasmrules
S
S
Dell (UT Austin) students, alumni, or admitted: what activities or extracurriculars did you participate in?
Replies
0
Views
342
sousop
S
T
Volunteering or Leadership or Social Justice/Advocacy Classification
Replies
5
Views
571
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
P
Are most secondaries good?
Replies
19
Views
1K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
Top