Freshman desperately seeking advice in Mental Health field!!!

Apr 14, 2010
1
0
0
Status
Pre-Medical
I'm a premed and psychology student at the University at Buffalo, but I'm starting off having a hard time. My Gen Chem grade last sem was a B- and it looks like it's going to end up the same for this sem. My passion is mental health, and I'm looking to become a psychiatrist... but with the damage I've already done with Gen Chem.. is it even possible to step it up enough for med school... I know that med schools like to see you take more than one science at a time.. So I was suggested to take orgo and bio together next sem but if I can't handle it I'll damage my gpa...

My only ohter option I can think of is to switch to nursing, and become a mental health psychiatric nurse practioner... (although I haven't really looked into the requirements, or how long it takes).

My passion really is mental health, but I also want a career where I will be able to support myself (which is why I'm not really trying to do just psych or social work)
 

Bartelby

10+ Year Member
Mar 15, 2007
1,275
511
281
Status
Attending Physician
One B- will not keep you out of medical school.

A PhD in Psychology (with a clinical focus) or a PsyD would have you practicing at a high level and give you the option to do research as well. It's not really easier than getting into med school from what I have heard, but there is more emphasis on the research you do in college. You might want to look into those routes if you are not liking chemistry and the other natural science courses. Keep in mind, though, that PhD/PsyD holders cannot prescribe medication.
 

apumic

Oracle of the Sheet
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jan 1, 2007
3,924
7
141
Denver, CO
Status
Medical Student
One B- will not keep you out of medical school.

A PhD in Psychology (with a clinical focus) or a PsyD would have you practicing at a high level and give you the option to do research as well. It's not really easier than getting into med school from what I have heard, but there is more emphasis on the research you do in college. You might want to look into those routes if you are not liking chemistry and the other natural science courses. Keep in mind, though, that PhD/PsyD holders cannot prescribe medication.
^This.


Also, PhD/PsyDs can get limited Rx privileges through a 2-year masters post-doc in several states, the military, and Guam. The req'ts for getting into a PhD/PsyD clinical psych program are comparable to those of an MD (3.7+ GPA, at least the 85-90th percentile on the GRE to be competitive, research & clinical experience w/ a heavy emphasis on research productivity and research match, interview skills, clinical potential, etc.)
 

TreeOfSouls

Health is an Option
Mar 28, 2010
65
0
0
Status
Post Doc
You can get a masters degree in counseling or clinical social work and then be licensed to practice independently. Most private practice counselors charge $80-120/hr. You make your own schedule, you practice in the areas that you're most interested in and this doesn't require a PhD/PsyD (which are research degrees, NOT clinical)/MD/PNP. Even at the low end and part-time you can make 6 figures. If mental health is really your passion, that's what I'd suggest. The lower overall salary is made up for by the MUCH shorter time frame to get where you want with your career. Then, you can be as successful (or not) as you choose to be.

I'm a premed and psychology student at the University at Buffalo, but I'm starting off having a hard time. My Gen Chem grade last sem was a B- and it looks like it's going to end up the same for this sem. My passion is mental health, and I'm looking to become a psychiatrist... but with the damage I've already done with Gen Chem.. is it even possible to step it up enough for med school... I know that med schools like to see you take more than one science at a time.. So I was suggested to take orgo and bio together next sem but if I can't handle it I'll damage my gpa...

My only ohter option I can think of is to switch to nursing, and become a mental health psychiatric nurse practioner... (although I haven't really looked into the requirements, or how long it takes).

My passion really is mental health, but I also want a career where I will be able to support myself (which is why I'm not really trying to do just psych or social work)
 
Jan 5, 2010
884
3
0
Status
Pre-Medical
You can get a masters degree in counseling or clinical social work and then be licensed to practice independently. Most private practice counselors charge $80-120/hr. You make your own schedule, you practice in the areas that you're most interested in and this doesn't require a PhD/PsyD (which are research degrees, NOT clinical)/MD/PNP. Even at the low end and part-time you can make 6 figures. If mental health is really your passion, that's what I'd suggest. The lower overall salary is made up for by the MUCH shorter time frame to get where you want with your career. Then, you can be as successful (or not) as you choose to be.

I think your salary figures are rather inflated for therapists.
 

TreeOfSouls

Health is an Option
Mar 28, 2010
65
0
0
Status
Post Doc
They're not. They are the actual range of my colleagues in private practice. Even taking insurance, which most of my colleagues don't do anymore, the reimbursement rate for a licensed counselor is $60-$80. Private practice minimum tends to be $80 and most that I know charge $100-$120 and maintain waiting lists of prospective clients. You may be thinking of pay scales for therapists working for social service/community agencies where the pay is comparatively low ($35-$45K salaried). Private practice is a different world and the rates strongly reflect that.

I think your salary figures are rather inflated for therapists.
 
Jan 5, 2010
884
3
0
Status
Pre-Medical
Looking at hourly wages isn't an accurate way to calculate someones yearly earnings. MY dad makes $250 "an hour"....which only comes out to 100k a year.
 

TreeOfSouls

Health is an Option
Mar 28, 2010
65
0
0
Status
Post Doc
Well, I don't know "your dad", but I do know many, many licensed professionals in the field of mental health. The hourly rate is exactly how one would calculate earnings in a field where you charge by the hour- private pay- for your clinical services. That is the payment model for most mental health private practices unless you choose to be on insurance panels, which most avoid, if they can.

As I mentioned, my colleagues all maintain waiting lists and could work 40+ hours if desired (and some do). I don't personally know anyone in the field who works less than 20 hours/week or more than 45, which is by choice since they set their own hours.

At any rate, I get the sense that you may just want to argue and I'm not into it, sorry. I've provided the info and hopefully it's useful to the OP.

Looking at hourly wages isn't an accurate way to calculate someones yearly earnings. MY dad makes $250 "an hour"....which only comes out to 100k a year.
 

DrArete

Removed
Apr 3, 2010
406
4
0
Status
Well, I don't know "your dad", but I do know many, many licensed professionals in the field of mental health. The hourly rate is exactly how one would calculate earnings in a field where you charge by the hour- private pay- for your clinical services. That is the payment model for most mental health private practices unless you choose to be on insurance panels, which most avoid, if they can.

As I mentioned, my colleagues all maintain waiting lists and could work 40+ hours if desired (and some do). I don't personally know anyone in the field who works less than 20 hours/week or more than 45, which is by choice since they set their own hours.

At any rate, I get the sense that you may just want to argue and I'm not into it, sorry. I've provided the info and hopefully it's useful to the OP.

I think you may be unclear on the concept of billable hours.

Even the most hardcore corporate attorneys who are working 100+ hour weeks early in their careers, rarely generate more than say 65 billable hours a week.
 

Suenya

Hail Eris
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Oct 2, 2008
529
13
101
Status
Non-Student
I'm a premed and psychology student at the University at Buffalo, but I'm starting off having a hard time. My Gen Chem grade last sem was a B- and it looks like it's going to end up the same for this sem. My passion is mental health, and I'm looking to become a psychiatrist... but with the damage I've already done with Gen Chem.. is it even possible to step it up enough for med school... I know that med schools like to see you take more than one science at a time.. So I was suggested to take orgo and bio together next sem but if I can't handle it I'll damage my gpa...

My only ohter option I can think of is to switch to nursing, and become a mental health psychiatric nurse practioner... (although I haven't really looked into the requirements, or how long it takes).

My passion really is mental health, but I also want a career where I will be able to support myself (which is why I'm not really trying to do just psych or social work)
Hi! Quite a few things...

One B- (or even more) won't stop you from getting into medical school. And General chem is rather different from both Orgo and Bio (and physics for that matter, to a lesser extent). You might do well in them but bad in general chem. That said, I wouldn't worry about taking everything at once. Breaking them up won't stop you from getting into medical school at all... at most it would delay you if you need to adjust your schedule enough to graduate late, which would seem unlikely anyway.

Doing an accelerated program for students with a bachelors to CNS/NP in psychiatric nursing is another good way to get into psych. You could also do a masters in social work for psychiatric social work, but I wouldn't recommend the other Masters level clinicians roles (not that they are bad, but they are roughly as far from the MD route as you can get in the field).

Additionally, you could try PsyD programs, or PhD programs, in clinical or counseling psych. Just be warned that clinical PhD programs are far harder to get into than medical school, so unless your amazing, or amazingly lucky, you might have to take a year or few off for research before getting in. PsyD and counseling psych are more reasonable to get into, though! You are right that psych NP/CNS do tend to make the most in the psych field outside of MDs, although clinical psychologists don't exactly have trouble supporting themselves. I wouldn't cut the other routes out of consideration yet though.

But really, there is no reason to give up on medical school in your situation, unless you feel like you don't want to go or won't be able to handle the coursework once you're there. I can't say if you'll be able to become a physician with how you're doing now, but your problem doesn't imply that you won't be able to either.
 

silverhorse84

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Mar 31, 2008
959
1
91
Status
Resident [Any Field]
If you really want to become a psychiatrist, then go for it. A couple of B-s aren't going to keep you out of medical school - if it did a lot of us would never have gotten in. I had a NP and a C on my transcript along with at least one B-.

This country is in desperate need of psychiatrists. I know at my mother's clinic (she's a clinical psychologist) child psychiatrists can almost chose a salary because there's so few of them and they really need them.
 

Stixman28

Medical Scientician
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jul 2, 2005
618
0
141
Yoknapatawpha County
integralscience.blogspot.com
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I think there's a bit of misinformation on here concerning PsyD vs PhD in psych.

If I understand correctly, the psyD was basically created to push more of an emphasis on clinical work during the training period, and less on research, like a traditional PhD (even if its a PhD in clinical psychology).

So getting into a PsyD program would not necessitate dedication to research.

But to underscore silverhorse, I got a B- in gen chem lab, both semesters, and it didn't keep me out of med school. Granted that B- was work like .5 credits in comparison to a 3 credit gen chem.

And my mother who is a clinical psychologist, charges btw 80-120 an hour...but doesn't work on fridays, and makes her own schedule every day. So just multiplying 100 by 8 hours, then 5 days, then 52 weeks...she don't make that much! (100$ x 8hrs x 5days x 52weeks = 208,000) Sh!t i dont expect to make that much as a doctor!

And concerning pediatric psychiatrists, man do I respect what they do...but to really help out those kids, you've got to deal with those parents...so are you really a pediatric psychiatrist then?
 
Last edited:

st2205

Attending
10+ Year Member
Oct 29, 2006
1,831
1,085
281
Status
Attending Physician
My intent was/is psychiatry as well. I got a a B- in Chem 1, followed up with a C-, W and finally an A in Chem 2. I was a psych major and looked into all of the avenues you have listed. As I have been in your exact shoes, just send me a PM if you have any specific questions about the different paths and why I chose what I did. Some of what has been discussed is only superficial with regard to the implications of each field.
 

phonyreal98

10+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2008
685
143
281
Status
MD/PhD Student
You can get a masters degree in counseling or clinical social work and then be licensed to practice independently. Most private practice counselors charge $80-120/hr. You make your own schedule, you practice in the areas that you're most interested in and this doesn't require a PhD/PsyD (which are research degrees, NOT clinical)/MD/PNP. Even at the low end and part-time you can make 6 figures. If mental health is really your passion, that's what I'd suggest. The lower overall salary is made up for by the MUCH shorter time frame to get where you want with your career. Then, you can be as successful (or not) as you choose to be.
PsyD is a clinical degree. That's the big difference between a PhD and a PsyD.
 
Jan 5, 2010
884
3
0
Status
Pre-Medical
Well, I don't know "your dad", but I do know many, many licensed professionals in the field of mental health. The hourly rate is exactly how one would calculate earnings in a field where you charge by the hour- private pay- for your clinical services. That is the payment model for most mental health private practices unless you choose to be on insurance panels, which most avoid, if they can.

As I mentioned, my colleagues all maintain waiting lists and could work 40+ hours if desired (and some do). I don't personally know anyone in the field who works less than 20 hours/week or more than 45, which is by choice since they set their own hours.

At any rate, I get the sense that you may just want to argue and I'm not into it, sorry. I've provided the info and hopefully it's useful to the OP.
I think you may be unclear on the concept of billable hours.

Even the most hardcore corporate attorneys who are working 100+ hour weeks early in their careers, rarely generate more than say 65 billable hours a week.


Exactly my point (though I was too tired to express it in a comprehensible way). Psychologists can't bill for time spent on the phone, researching, filling out paper work etc. As the above poster says, hours works=/=billable hours.

Why is it that anytime someone disagrees with another poster, they are immediately berated for "wanting to fight" or "trolling"?
 

TreeOfSouls

Health is an Option
Mar 28, 2010
65
0
0
Status
Post Doc
My last contribution to this thread will be that I am finishing a doctoral degree in this field after years of clinical practice. My knowledge about the various degrees, their pay scales, the implications of each in terms of prestige and hours worked, the research involved or not, the opportunities and challenges that each provides, etc. is very current and not based just on the many professionals that I know but the journals that I read and the professional organizations that I've been a member of for years now. I teach university psychology courses and I frequently discuss these very issues with students who are trying to determine the best pathway for them to get where they're trying to go in the helping professions/mental health/psychology field.

Regarding billable hours, when you are in private practice as a therapist and not on any insurance panels (the case with most experienced therapists), your notes are private and are often extremely short impressions written down during the session and perhaps some notes about followup that you would write during the 5 minutes before the next client. You don't do insurance billing because you aren't on any panels. You don't have fee collection problems because clients either pay upfront or at the time of service. Your travel is only to your office, which hopefully you strategically chose because it was a good location and convenient for you. The only work that you might do for which you wouldn't be paid is scheduling and it's hard to imagine a scenario where you'd be spending more than an hour a week on scheduling unless you're very disorganized. With regard to phone interactions with clients, if they are more than 15 minutes, they are billed as a "phone session" as per your contract with the client. If you are talking with a new, potential client, you might spend 30 minutes talking to them but, ultimately, you'd need to see them in the office for the first session, which is always billed. The "unpaid" work is minimal if you are well-organized and professional. It isn't law, it is a unique field and what I shared was my first hand experience in clinical practice and professional observation of others practicing similarly.

Argue, if you must, but I really don't see the point. I'm telling you what I've seen/done, what my friends and colleagues have seen/done, and the status of the field that I'm currently in! Are you an experienced mental health professional with multiple graduate degrees and teaching experience in the same? Have you done community agency, private treatment center, and private practice work? Are you a member of the ACA, APA, NASW? If not, then- believe it or not- it just might be possible that you don't really know the reality of this profession and it might be more productive to take in the information being presented without trying to argue what it's like in other fields... the OP wasn't asking about law or any other "private practice" thing; the question was about wanting to work in the field of mental health and wanting to be able to make a good living to support a family. I don't have any colleagues in private practice who don't own a nice home and car, wear expensive clothes, take ample vacations, have tons of time for family, and work with clients who think they are the greatest.

I think you may be unclear on the concept of billable hours.

Even the most hardcore corporate attorneys who are working 100+ hour weeks early in their careers, rarely generate more than say 65 billable hours a week.
 

TreeOfSouls

Health is an Option
Mar 28, 2010
65
0
0
Status
Post Doc
You're right- the PsyD was created for those who wanted to do clinical psychology work only. So, while they still need to be good consumers of research and they still learn about research/statistics, their curriculum focuses more on clinical work whereas a PhD in Psychology has minimal focus on clinical work and is almost entirely geared towards research (even the "Clinical Psychology" track of most APA Accredited programs).

To become a clinician via PhD in Clinical Psych, it would required 5-7 years to complete the PhD, practicum hours, then a year of internship. Then, you take the licensing exam. After that, you can apply to be licensed in your state. So, it's not a quick, easy process. Many insurance panels prefer to cover masters level clinicians because they can pay them less. Therefore, a large percentage of licensed psychologists don't accept insurance.

To become a clinician via the PsyD, it requires about 3 years to complete the degree, usually more practicum hours than a PhD in Psych, and then the year of internship (if your program is APA Accredited). Unfortunately, you'll be competing with PhD Clinical Psych students in the APPIC system for your internship placement and there may be a strong preference for PhD vs. PsyD, though not everywhere and not always. This is similar to the MD/DO situation. Then, you'd take the licensing exam and apply for licensure in your state. Same deal with most not taking insurance.

So, PhD is a 6-8 year process and PsyD is a 4-5 year process. Both, if you chose an accredited program, would enable you to sit for the psychology licensure exam (EPPP). It is as difficult to get into a clinical psych PhD program as it is to get into medical school. It is much easier to get into a PsyD program. Both types of programs are accredited by the APA but you have to make sure the specific program is accredited or you won't be eligible for licensure.

Psychology is seen as a profession that deals primarily with assessment. So, if you want to do assessments (ADHD, learning disabilities, personality disorders/MMPI analyses, etc.) then go that route. In two states, psychologists can take extra coursework and get prescribing privileges for psych meds. That is likely to expand, particularly with the health care reform just passed. Your clients will call you "doctor ___" but you will call them "clients" rather than "patients" (as would a lawyer or business person). Psychologists can do therapy but it's often targeted toward the specific group that they do assessments for. Otherwise, people tend to seek out masters level counselors for less "factual" problems because they charge less. Even at the most expensive treatment centers, psychologists are generally doing assessments whereas the "therapy" is done by masters level clinicians.

Masters degree in clinical social work or professional counseling takes 2-3 years depending on whether you go full time or not, requires practicum, then 6 months - 1 year of internship. Admission ranges from very competitive to not at all competitive depending on the institution. The program should be CACREP accredited in order to make sure it meets licensure requirements. Then, most states require 2 years (2000-3000 hours) of supervised practice before granting independent licensure. Once you're independently licensed, you can have a private practice as I've been discussing in previous posts. So, masters level work is a 3-4 year process. Successful masters level clinicians will make as much as the average psychologist or more, depending of course on location/specializations/ability to network/skill level, etc.

It all depends on what you want to work with, what kind of work you want to do with it, and how you interpret "prestige"- coming from who and what kind- patients will respect you in private practice and think you're awesome no matter which of these degrees you pursue and most won't ask much about your pathway to licensure anyway). Also, whether you want to be in private practice or not. If not, both masters level and psychologists don't tend to make much. Psychologists with PhD have the option of becoming university professors but the job openings in that field are slim to rare. In my research lab, the PhD candidates are exploring other ways to use the degree since there are few openings and this is at an institution with a highly ranked psych program.

Psychologists are sometimes able to work in hospital settings and so are medical social workers. But, if you want to be in a medical setting, then psychiatry is the field you're looking for. If you want to counsel people and prescribe meds, clinical psych or PsyD with additional work towards prescribing privileges might make you happier (quicker route). You'd be called and perceived (for better or worse) as a "doctor" in either case (psychologist or psychiatrist) and most patients won't know the difference, though the stigma is less in working with a psychologist vs. a psychiatrist.

Psychiatry is a great field but you have to love it for what it is if you go that route because whether you want to be mostly doing med management or not, that's what most agencies, hospitals, and treatment centers will want you to do primarily. There are equally qualified people for the "therapy" part and their pay rate is less. So, it doesn't make business sense to have patients spending that therapy time with a psychiatrist. Therefore, if you want to do that kind of work, you'll have more opportunity for it in private practice. You can charge more hourly, but you may still end up doing primarily med management, if you do. So, you'd definitely have to want to focus on that and also know how you'll compete as the field opens up for more prescribers (psychologists and psychiatric nurse practitioners).

Regarding pediatric psych, that's usually a fellowship after psych residency. You still work primarily with the child- assessment and prescribing medication. The "therapy" is likely done with a masters level clinician and might involve family/parenting therapy but not from the psychiatrist. The psychiatrist's interaction with parents involves explaining the diagnosis and treatment plan and, hopefully, getting them to follow the treatment plan and followup.

I think there's a bit of misinformation on here concerning PsyD vs PhD in psych.

If I understand correctly, the psyD was basically created to push more of an emphasis on clinical work during the training period, and less on research, like a traditional PhD (even if its a PhD in clinical psychology).

So getting into a PsyD program would not necessitate dedication to research.

But to underscore silverhorse, I got a B- in gen chem lab, both semesters, and it didn't keep me out of med school. Granted that B- was work like .5 credits in comparison to a 3 credit gen chem.

And my mother who is a clinical psychologist, charges btw 80-120 an hour...but doesn't work on fridays, and makes her own schedule every day. So just multiplying 100 by 8 hours, then 5 days, then 52 weeks...she don't make that much! (100$ x 8hrs x 5days x 52weeks = 208,000) Sh!t i dont expect to make that much as a doctor!

And concerning pediatric psychiatrists, man do I respect what they do...but to really help out those kids, you've got to deal with those parents...so are you really a pediatric psychiatrist then?
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

Osteo Dullahan
7+ Year Member
Nov 10, 2009
16,060
5,261
181
Status
Medical Student
Ok let me start of by saying that a PhD in clinical psychology is harder to get then a medical degree, there's much more competition. <However you can always just go get a master in psychology and use it as a springboard into a clinical psychology program.>
A Psy.D is honestly a dubious degree. It costs 40k a year and a clinical psychologist will be making 60k starting pay? So really, we pre-med's complain about getting a MD/DO and having 200k debt, but we're making at least 150k a year. Not saying you shouldn't get a Psy.D but i'm just saying economically dubious.
Ok a B- in chem 1 won't kill you. You have nearly 3 more years ( if not more) to go, you've got a lot of time to show off other aspects of your application. Like maybe a A's in you bio classes, or A's in etc.
So chillax.
 

TreeOfSouls

Health is an Option
Mar 28, 2010
65
0
0
Status
Post Doc
PsyD is not a dubious degree. It has the same APA Accreditation as any psychology PhD degree and gives the same opportunity to sit for the EPPP. The costs are higher if you go to a private school (as with MD/DO) or an unaccredited program. However, some universities (University of Denver comes to mind) offer a PsyD program, which means that students are charged regular tuition with opportunities to be a TA/RA (like most psych PhD students) and receive tuition waivers. It really depends on where you go. There are professors in psychology PhD programs who themselves have a PsyD and that number is growing because they tend to specialize in some niche, which is advantageous in a competitive market.

Also, most PsyD's I know go into private practice pretty quickly, so they aren't making anywhere near $60,00 like the psych PhDs are at an agency or as associate/junior faculty.

Ok let me start of by saying that a PhD in clinical psychology is harder to get then a medical degree, there's much more competition. <However you can always just go get a master in psychology and use it as a springboard into a clinical psychology program.>
A Psy.D is honestly a dubious degree. It costs 40k a year and a clinical psychologist will be making 60k starting pay? So really, we pre-med's complain about getting a MD/DO and having 200k debt, but we're making at least 150k a year. Not saying you shouldn't get a Psy.D but i'm just saying economically dubious.
Ok a B- in chem 1 won't kill you. You have nearly 3 more years ( if not more) to go, you've got a lot of time to show off other aspects of your application. Like maybe a A's in you bio classes, or A's in etc.
So chillax.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

Osteo Dullahan
7+ Year Member
Nov 10, 2009
16,060
5,261
181
Status
Medical Student
PsyD is not a dubious degree. It has the same APA Accreditation as any psychology PhD degree and gives the same opportunity to sit for the EPPP. The costs are higher if you go to a private school (as with MD/DO) or an unaccredited program. However, some universities (University of Denver comes to mind) offer a PsyD program, which means that students are charged regular tuition with opportunities to be a TA/RA (like most psych PhD students) and receive tuition waivers. It really depends on where you go. There are professors in psychology PhD programs who themselves have a PsyD and that number is growing because they tend to specialize in some niche, which is advantageous in a competitive market.

Also, most PsyD's I know go into private practice pretty quickly, so they aren't making anywhere near $60,00 like the psych PhDs are at an agency or as associate/junior faculty.

Way to ignore my point. Most Psy.D student's leave with over 150k in debt ( yes there are some programs that will waive tuition. However it should be known that Uni of Denver is considerable one of the best Psy.D programs, most of the other programs do not offer such tuition waivement), ALL clinical psychologists ( Psy.D's and PhD's) usually make around 60k starting pay. However do realize that a PhD student is free of debt. PhD's also have a easier time getting into academic psychology at universities.
MD/DO private school prices can be high. They get paid high! Psychologists simply do not make that much money to be able to really counter the costs.
There's a major thread in the clinical psychology forum talking about this topic right now.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=717306

http://apa.org/monitor/2010/04/salaries.aspx < psychologist pay on average is under 80k.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_salaryresults.asp?op=salswz_psr&jobfamilycode=12&txtKeyword=psychologist&hdOmniNarrowDesc=Healthcare+--+Practitioners&hdZipCode=&hdOmniTotalJobsFound=2&pagefrom=selectjob&hdJobCategory=HC03&hdGeoLocation=U.S.+National+Averages&countertype=0&totaljoblistnum=2&joblevelcode=2&hdCurrentPage=1&hdNarrowDesc=Healthcare+--+Practitioners&hdLocationOption=0&hdViewAllRecords=0&hdJobTitle=Psychologist&hdSearchByOption=0&hdKeyword=psychologist&rdbSearchByOption=0&hdStateMetro=&jobcounter=1&hdSortBy=0&hdJobCode=HC07000044&hdJSBoolDisplayAdvertisement= < another link about psychology pay>
 
Last edited:

TreeOfSouls

Health is an Option
Mar 28, 2010
65
0
0
Status
Post Doc
Those who posted in the thread you quoted did a good job of stating what I would about the salary links you posted, so I won't duplicate that here. I didn't ignore your point, it was just very clear that we weren't talking about the same thing. It would be like telling people not to go into medicine because salaries in academic medicine are xyz when the reality is that most people going into medicine don't want an academic salary anyway, they want a practicing physician salary, which is abc. Working for an agency/clinic/center or being an assoc professor doesn't have the same pay range or lifestyle as private practice, which was the only thing I was discussing. We're talking about two very different career options.

Anyway, the thread you posted is interesting and highlights why masters level may be the best option if "therapy" is the goal rather than a medical focus. Personally, I wouldn't choose PhD *or* PsyD in psychology unless I actually loved doing research (which most psych doctoral programs are really upfront about, anyway) and would be happy at the $65-80K pay level. Otherwise, private practice at masters level is the most financially sound choice if providing therapy, good lifestyle, and $$ are the goals.

Way to ignore my point. Most Psy.D student's leave with over 150k in debt ( yes there are some programs that will waive tuition. However it should be known that Uni of Denver is considerable one of the best Psy.D programs, most of the other programs do not offer such tuition waivement), ALL clinical psychologists ( Psy.D's and PhD's) make around 60k starting pay. However do realize that a PhD student is free of debt.
MD/DO private school prices can be high. They get paid high! Psychologists simply do not make that much money to be able to really counter the costs.
There's a major thread in the clinical psychology forum talking about this topic right now.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=717306

http://apa.org/monitor/2010/04/salaries.aspx < psychologist pay on average is under 80k.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_salaryresults.asp?op=salswz_psr&jobfamilycode=12&txtKeyword=psychologist&hdOmniNarrowDesc=Healthcare+--+Practitioners&hdZipCode=&hdOmniTotalJobsFound=2&pagefrom=selectjob&hdJobCategory=HC03&hdGeoLocation=U.S.+National+Averages&countertype=0&totaljoblistnum=2&joblevelcode=2&hdCurrentPage=1&hdNarrowDesc=Healthcare+--+Practitioners&hdLocationOption=0&hdViewAllRecords=0&hdJobTitle=Psychologist&hdSearchByOption=0&hdKeyword=psychologist&rdbSearchByOption=0&hdStateMetro=&jobcounter=1&hdSortBy=0&hdJobCode=HC07000044&hdJSBoolDisplayAdvertisement= < another link about psychology pay>
 

surftheiop

10+ Year Member
Dec 4, 2008
1,940
27
0
Status
The anti-nursing crowd in here may bash me, but going nursing to Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner is another good path to work in mental health.
 

rama kandra

Actual Psychiatrist jk
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Nov 16, 2008
1,439
2
91
Status
Medical Student (Accepted)
Private practice psychiatry is a good way to think about it. Cant ignore the 3 p's