BMW19

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I don't know if anyone has seen the front page today, but there is an interesting article on the impending shortage of physicians. It states from several sources that we will need 3 to 10 thousand more physicians a year for 10 years to meet the needs of the baby boomers.

Another interesting point is that the AMA and the council on Grad. Med. Ed have restricted the production of docs since the 80's predicting a surplus!!
I can think of $everal other rea$on$ why they would want less docs out there (just my opinion).

In any case for those who are sweating residency slots (and starting med school soon) I think we will be fine. As DO's we have the perfect opportunity to take the bull by the horns and provide much needed care to the coming glut of the elderly. Therefore, I don't see a problem with all of the new schools that everyone is whining about. I think we should welcome this opportunity.

Just my 2 cents

BMW-
 
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if we go ahead and say that this is true, we still have the issue of the aoa not opening enough new quality residency programs for its grads. Yeah the demand is there but the oppurtunity for training is not. Thats why so many people are jumping ship to the acgme match,
 
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BMW19

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If the AOA is smart they will pick this trend up and run with it by creating more openings. This would be especially effective b/c most of the rural areas are the ones that are short, and that is what we preach about

BMW-



Chronotropic said:
if we go ahead and say that this is true, we still have the issue of the aoa not opening enough new quality residency programs for its grads. Yeah the demand is there but the oppurtunity for training is not. Thats why so many people are jumping ship to the acgme match,
 

donvicious

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Chronotropic said:
if we go ahead and say that this is true, we still have the issue of the aoa not opening enough new quality residency programs for its grads. Yeah the demand is there but the oppurtunity for training is not. Thats why so many people are jumping ship to the acgme match,
This a very popular argument that I don't understand. How can the AOA justify opening new residency programs if they can't fill the ones they've got?
 

JonnyG

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If you read the article you notice that the author doesn't consider DOs as doctors. He mentions that the only new medical shcool to open since the 80's was at the University of Florida, which is just graduating its first class. So the whole expandiing residency issue really wouldn't apply to DOs.
 

(nicedream)

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JonnyG said:
If you read the article you notice that the author doesn't consider DOs as doctors. He mentions that the only new medical shcool to open since the 80's was at the University of Florida, which is just graduating its first class. So the whole expandiing residency issue really wouldn't apply to DOs.
Not to nitpick, but it's Florida State University that is new.
 
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donvicious said:
This a very popular argument that I don't understand. How can the AOA justify opening new residency programs if they can't fill the ones they've got?
The key word is quality. if the AOA programs were comparible to ACGME they would fill. So open up some high quality programs for the increasing numbers of grads. All those unfilled specialty residency programs in ortho and derm don't go unfilled because people aren't interested. They go unfilled because of perceived lack of quality.
If the aoa wants to keep pumping out larger and larger numbers of doctors that they also open up new quality residency programs that give these grads a fair shot at doing the specialty of their choice.
And if we do indeed need as many new physcians per year as the article claims we are going to need a good mix of them. So we can't just say "well our mission is to create primary care doctors." If opening all these new schools is a way to combat the problems of the aging baby boomers we're going to need Orthos, Opthos, Neuros, etc etc.
 
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BMW19

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So what he's ignorant. So is most of the population, about mostly everything! That doesn't change the fact that a shortage is coming and it is a chance for the osteopathic profession to fill the void.


JonnyG said:
If you read the article you notice that the author doesn't consider DOs as doctors. He mentions that the only new medical shcool to open since the 80's was at the University of Florida, which is just graduating its first class. So the whole expandiing residency issue really wouldn't apply to DOs.
 

Drugtech

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I read the article as well and got the strong impression that DO's aren't considered apart of that 800k physicians currently practicing. I read somewhere that there are projected to be 95k DO's practicing by 2020...thank God for the forsight of the AOA in realizing there would be a shortage, or else the US would really be in a hot mess relative to the physician demand.
 

Skialta

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You can pump out all the DOs or MDs you want, but if there isn't any increased residency positions what is the point? Personally I think BMW is a little naive about the advantage of all the new DO slots when there seems to be more DO residencies folding than opening. Just my 2 cents.
 

InductionAgent

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There's no shortage of primary care residencies in either the allopathic or osteopathic world, which is where the current and projected physician shortfall lies.
 

JoltinJoe

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InductionAgent said:
There's no shortage of primary care residencies in either the allopathic or osteopathic world, which is where the current and projected physician shortfall lies.
Exactly. And how many of us REALLY want to be primary care docs anyway? Not i, that's for DAMN sure.
 

jhug

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I don't think malignant growth of DO schools is the answer. If you have 5 million, a cadaver and a warehouse you can open a DO school...that's not the way to build a respectable reputation...that's how you make DO mills (and a lot of money)

This is an opportunity in which the AOA *could* make a great point about the importance of osteopathic medicine...but to be honest, i don't think we have the leadership in the organization to do it.
With studies like this are going out, we are spending $$$ on getting ER and Everwood to put a DO character on TV??? Why are we not contributing to these kinds of studies??? Where is AOA research on this???
It should be a slap in the face of the leadership of the AOA to see "doctors of osteopathy not included"...

Donvicious...Location is one of the most important factors in why we choose residencies. There are more ACGME Peds residencies in the state of California ALONE than AOA residencies in the entire nation!!! If you don't want to live back east, your choices of AOA residencies are pretty slim. And even if, heaven forbid, the ACGME decided that no more DO's could do their residencies, we wouldn't have enough spots to accomodate all of us...let alone the wave of new grads that will be graduating from new schools...
 

Gibby Haynes

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Chronotropic said:
All those unfilled specialty residency programs in ortho and derm don't go unfilled because people aren't interested. They go unfilled because of perceived lack of quality.
FYI, the competitive specialties in the AOA (ortho, ophtho, derm, neurosurg, etc.) never have a problem filling every year. In fact, many people don't match b/c of the competiveness. Most of these programs are good quality programs. The primary care fields don't fill for many reasons including location, salary, benefits, perception about quality, etc.
 
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Gibby Haynes said:
FYI, the competitive specialties in the AOA (ortho, ophtho, derm, neurosurg, etc.) never have a problem filling every year. In fact, many people don't match b/c of the competiveness. Most of these programs are good quality programs. The primary care fields don't fill for many reasons including location, salary, benefits, perception about quality, etc.
I was wanting to say that primary care spots are the ones that don't fill but a recent jaoa gave this chart that showed all the unfilled positions in ortho and derm. Perhaps that was prescramble? Sorry if I posted some misinformation.

But if these programs are filling, all the more reason to open more up.
 

DOSouthpaw

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You have to also take into account that most of the numbers about # of slots filling could also be coming from match results and a lot of DOs do not take part in the match. Many rotate at a program that they like, get in with the DME, and negotiate a contract. This saves the student the money that it costs to enter into the match. Even though the spots fill, they sometimes look vacant because no one "matched" there. I know at the hospital I am rotating at, only one student matched into the FP program, the rest just signed up. Our program filled but it only showed that one person matched.
 

Cowboy DO

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Chronotropic said:
I was wanting to say that primary care spots are the ones that don't fill but a recent jaoa gave this chart that showed all the unfilled positions in ortho and derm. Perhaps that was prescramble? Sorry if I posted some misinformation.

But if these programs are filling, all the more reason to open more up.

Correct me if im wrong on this, but opening up residencies is really a difficult thing to achieve since the federal govt., under the clinton administration, strictly limited the funding of new positions. So you cant realy lay all the blame on the AOA.
 

(nicedream)

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It was my understanding that in the DO world, students match into their PGY1 year, which means rotating internship, but then simply apply for the post-PGY1 residencies (no match).
 

bgibney

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Chronotropic said:
I was wanting to say that primary care spots are the ones that don't fill but a recent jaoa gave this chart that showed all the unfilled positions in ortho and derm. Perhaps that was prescramble? Sorry if I posted some misinformation.

But if these programs are filling, all the more reason to open more up.
I think you are looking at the total spots, not the total FUNDED spots. They like to publish all spots, but very few people would take unfunded spots, if they are in fact available. But, if you look at funded spots, all the competitive specialties fill.
 
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bgibney said:
I think you are looking at the total spots, not the total FUNDED spots. They like to publish all spots, but very few people would take unfunded spots, if they are in fact available. But, if you look at funded spots, all the competitive specialties fill.
That would make sense. Although it is suprising that there are that many unfunded spots.
 

mocheese

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BMW19 said:
I don't know if anyone has seen the front page today, but there is an interesting article on the impending shortage of physicians. It states from several sources that we will need 3 to 10 thousand more physicians a year for 10 years to meet the needs of the baby boomers.

Another interesting point is that the AMA and the council on Grad. Med. Ed have restricted the production of docs since the 80's predicting a surplus!!
I can think of $everal other rea$on$ why they would want less docs out there (just my opinion).

In any case for those who are sweating residency slots (and starting med school soon) I think we will be fine. As DO's we have the perfect opportunity to take the bull by the horns and provide much needed care to the coming glut of the elderly. Therefore, I don't see a problem with all of the new schools that everyone is whining about. I think we should welcome this opportunity.

Just my 2 cents

BMW-

If all we are interested is primary care, ya we'll be fine, but what about the rest of us that want to specialize?
 

sophiejane

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It's not surprising that an article that discounts the very existence of osteopathic medicine when tallying number of doctors and medical schools would appear in the bastion of journalistic mediocrity known as USA Today.

Consider the source. If it was in the NY Times or the Washington Post, I'd be more concerned.
 

dkwyler94

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JonnyG said:
If you read the article you notice that the author doesn't consider DOs as doctors. He mentions that the only new medical shcool to open since the 80's was at the University of Florida, which is just graduating its first class. So the whole expandiing residency issue really wouldn't apply to DOs.
An aside.
What I find interesting is when I am dealing with DO's and say I go to medical school, am a medical student, or will be a medical doctor, they correct me. It is OSTEOPATHIC school, I am an OSTEOPATHIC medical student, and I am an OSTEOPATHIC doctor. But then when this article says there has not been a medical school open since the 80's, or an article said there was no medical school in Phoenix, the DOs get upset. Anyone else see that as perculiar? I guess we really haven't decided what we actually are yet. I guess it is because we are a destinction without a difference.

KCOM Class 2005
 

sophiejane

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dkwyler94 said:
An aside.
What I find interesting is when I am dealing with DO's and say I go to medical school, am a medical student, or will be a medical doctor, they correct me. It is OSTEOPATHIC school, I am an OSTEOPATHIC medical student, and I am an OSTEOPATHIC doctor. But then when this article says there has not been a medical school open since the 80's, or an article said there was no medical school in Phoenix, the DOs get upset. Anyone else see that as perculiar? I guess we really haven't decided what we actually are yet. I guess it is because we are a destinction without a difference.

KCOM Class 2005
You make an excellent point. The identity crisis continues. This is why I don't refer to myself as "OMS", I'm just learning to be a doc, and when I'm a doc, I'll be treating patients and I will have the skill set taught to me by the docs that I learned from. Same as an allopath, though some of my skills may be different (OMT for example).
 
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Gibby Haynes said:
\
Check out this site for AOA match results.
www.natmatch.com/aoairp/
Click on results, then click the stats box in lower right hand corner.

I can only seem to find the combined match stats. Is there any link on there that shows the noncombined stats. I know there has to be more than 3 optho, 38 ortho, and 2 neurosurgery programs.