Frustrated with Job Search

[alansda]

medium rare, thanks a lot for your insight. As a followup question, may I ask if you ever considered doing a LCSW/MFT + NP as opposed to PhD + NP?
I'm asking because doing ~two more years on top of the five years for the PhD and one year of internship, about 8 years total after college, seems kind of...long.
Is having prescription authority, in your experience, such a great mountain that it blurs whether one got a PhD or a MSW to start with? Thanks in advance

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[medium rare]

medium rare, thanks a lot for your insight. As a followup question, may I ask if you ever considered doing a LCSW/MFT + NP as opposed to PhD + NP?
I'm asking because doing ~two more years on top of the five years for the PhD and one year of internship, about 8 years total after college, seems kind of...long.
Is having prescription authority, in your experience, such a great mountain that it blurs whether one got a PhD or a MSW to start with? Thanks in advance

You can do the NP to get prescriptive authority with any prior bachelor's or advanced degree - MSW would qualify. But if you're thinking this route, you should just go right into the psych NP program as the MSW will add little except more training on social-cultural/systemic issues and some more experience under your belt.

In my experience, I have found that I get more 'respect' from psychiatrists and other physicians because I am a psychologist. The NP is the vehicle I use to prescribe, and I have attending privileges at a local inpatient treatment facility where I work one day per week. I have also been able to negotiate higher hourly rates based on my background as a clinical psychologist and psych NP. I command practically the same rates as other psychiatrists in my area and more than any other psych NP of which I'm aware. Having a MSW would not have made any difference in these areas. I know of two other MSW who also became psych NPs, and they are treated the same as any other psych NP.

And, not to mention the breadth and depth of knowledge you'll be exposed to in a clinical psych doctoral program. Even though psychology's lack of prescriptive authority inhibits our ability to fully participate in some aspects of treatment, psychologists are still regarded as the experts in what we do and respected in a way that master's level clinicians are not.

 

[WizdomDoc]

Those psychologists who pursue the RN/NP option recommended (and taken by) Medium Rare will likely reap great personal, professional and financial rewards, but it is likely to be a very demanding path for most.

Based on my own experience, I would suggest an alternative strategy for career development, geared towards building a private practice, and particularly well-suited to those who resonate with the "softer" side of psychology. Depending on factors such as personality, age, academic background and areas of specialization, as well as geography, there are numerous ways to expand one's practice by venturing out into areas that are adjacent or overlapping with psychology, while building on the core competencies attained over the course of psychological training.

Examples of these range from a variety of training and coaching roles, applied research projects, service delivery and other program evaluations, mediation and conflict resolution, consultation with city, county and state educational and health systems/agencies as well as non-profits, teaching in various settings, workshop facilitation and more.

This list is taken from my own (several decades of) experience, and are admittedly much more diverse than most of my colleagues' career profiles. However, my clinical practice has been very enriched by experimenting with different areas of professional activity. I have to point out that it did not always come easily, and repeatedly demanded that I overcome the initial discomfort, ambiguity and various feelings evoked by operating outside the relatively sheltered role of a psychologist. However, stretching in these ways enriched me personally and professionally, generated a relatively steady stream of referrals, and enabled me to more easily weather the ups and downs of clinical practice, including the ability to relocate and set up a new successful practice within a reasonably short period of time.

While my path is clearly not for everyone, it can offer some of you a different way of envisioning and creating your careers.

 

[WizdomDoc]

I command practically the same rates as other psychiatrists in my area and more than any other psych NP of which I'm aware. Having a MSW would not have made any difference in these areas... not to mention the breadth and depth of knowledge... in a clinical psych doctoral program. Psychologists are still regarded as the experts in what we do and respected in a way that master's level clinicians are not.

I wholeheartedly agree that the breadth and depth of my doctoral level education and training provided a much more advantageous foundation for building my career than any Master's level program I could have attended. Costly as it was in both time and tuition, it has afforded me the training, knowledge and professional authority that have enabled me to launch and develop a much more rewarding career than any other option I could have pursued.

 

[appelsoranjes]

As a post-doc anxious about entering the "real world" soon, I've started taking steps to work towards my RN (with eventual NP-dome) - thanks Medium Rare

I'm taking prerequisites "online" at a cheap regionally-accredited college (clovis.edu), for the particular state school I'm looking at (George Mason's accelerated 12-month BSN program); I'll need 2 courses of Anatomy + Lab, Microbiology, Nutrition and Ethics. All are available online.

I'm wondering if I can start a private practice on the side while attending the BSN program - at least enough clients to pay for rent maybe? feasible?

The only thing I dread is being treated like a b*tch by the attendings during my 12-hour RN rotations... takes some ego-strength I suppose 7+ years of graduate school and back to undergrad.

 

[WizdomDoc]

I've thought about mediation/conflict management as well as org consulting. Before I went back to school for psychology I was a lawyer specializing in labor and employment issues. I worked closely with HR and did a lot of conflict management in that role. I'd be interested in knowing any suggestions for networking in this area as well as increasing my knowledge base. I really don't have a background in I/O, beyond a couple of introductory classes. Also, I have a strong interest in group psychotherapy and group dynamics, and would love to find a way to use this to expand my practice.

With your legal/HR background and interest in groups dynamics, there are several ways you could progress. First, there is a lot of potential in the attorney-psychologist overlap, whether in divorce mediation, organizational consulting and training (e.g. sexual harassment prevention), jury assessment and case preparation, and working with the courts in general, especially once you get to "expert witness" levels.

I would also supplement your knowledge and skills by attending experiential conferences (the Tavistock Model) of group dynamics sponsored by up the A.K. Rice Institute, and other organization/group-based trainings. You might also find a fruitful avenue in ASTD (American Sociery of Training & Development) and check out the relevant APA and your State Psychlogical Association's divisions.

Good luck!

 

[WizdomDoc]

I think this is a great idea. I'm personally interested in going into health care administration/management but save for getting a MHA, am a little unsure about the process or how to better pursue that career direction.

If the is enough active interest I may open a forum on these issues. In the meantime, I think an MHA would be a very useful vehicle for you, but like any other additional degree it will require a lot.

If you are willing to pursue consulting projects in these areas rather than getting a "real job" within a health care agency, you could do so without an MHA -- but you will likely have to prove yourself several times over, since you won't have obvious expertise in the relevant content area.

Health care admin is a "large systems" kind of field, so if you can obtain an MHA it would give you a serious boost. Good luck!

 

[psychmama]

With your legal/HR background and interest in groups dynamics, there are several ways you could progress. First, there is a lot of potential in the attorney-psychologist overlap, whether in divorce mediation, organizational consulting and training (e.g. sexual harassment prevention), jury assessment and case preparation, and working with the courts in general, especially once you get to "expert witness" levels.

I would also supplement your knowledge and skills by attending experiential conferences (the Tavistock Model) of group dynamics sponsored by up the A.K. Rice Institute, and other organization/group-based trainings. You might also find a fruitful avenue in ASTD (American Sociery of Training & Development) and check out the relevant APA and your State Psychlogical Association's divisions.

Good luck!

Thanks so much for the suggestions! I will check these out. I'm not too familiar with the A.K Rice Institute trainings, although I went to American Group Psychological Association (AGPA) this year and found the experiential training very helpful. It's encouraging to hear that my pre-psychology experiences might be an asset in developing a practice.

Thanks again.

 

[medium rare]

As a post-doc anxious about entering the "real world" soon, I've started taking steps to work towards my RN (with eventual NP-dome) - thanks Medium Rare

I'm taking prerequisites "online" at a cheap regionally-accredited college (clovis.edu), for the particular state school I'm looking at (George Mason's accelerated 12-month BSN program); I'll need 2 courses of Anatomy + Lab, Microbiology, Nutrition and Ethics. All are available online.

I'm wondering if I can start a private practice on the side while attending the BSN program - at least enough clients to pay for rent maybe? feasible?

The only thing I dread is being treated like a b*tch by the attendings during my 12-hour RN rotations... takes some ego-strength I suppose 7+ years of graduate school and back to undergrad.

I would advise against starting a private practice while doing an accelerated BSN. The content of the work itself is not incredibly difficult, but the pace is grueling and demanding and allows very little time for outside work although it can be done. Working during the NP program is more feasible although I would still recommend avoiding it if you can - the pace is very fast.

You'll probably have more problems with your nursing faculty than with the physicians. Nursing students have little contact with the attendings or residents and nurses are known for "eating their young."