full-tuition scholarship (T50 state school) v.s. staying on WL for 8 T20s

[ssycv1]

Hey guys! Incoming MS1 here posting about a dilemma in choosing med schools. Quick background on my personal goals: I'm pretty set on pursuing medical oncology and hope to match into internal medicine at a top program in CA; not particularly interested in academia and leaning more towards 100% seeing patients in the future.

I recently got a full-ride scholarship to my state school UC Irvine, but I need to commit to enroll by May 1 in order to keep this scholarship. It's always been my dream to stay in CA for med school, and I’m very happy with UCI in terms of its cost, location, proximity to family, and people I've met so far. But I’m afraid that its lower prestige will make matching into a good CA program harder. This situation is complicated by the fact that I am currently on infinite waitlists (UCSF, Cornell, WashU, Vandy, Mayo, Pritzker, Feinberg, Mt Sinai etc) and most of them wont start any waitlist movement until after Apr 30. I don’t think I will choose any of my other current acceptances over a full-ride to UCI, but I will gladly attend a school like UCSF (my dream school) if accepted off the WL even if they don't give me money.

TLDR: if I commit to UCI to retain the scholarship by May 1 then I’ll lose my chance to get off the WL at all of these aforementioned schools….but if I don’t commit, I’ll lose the scholarship and there’s no guarantee that I’ll get off any of my WLs.

I know everyone has different priorities but I guess my question is whether I should decline the UCI scholarship and gamble with my chances at being accepted off the WL to one of the T20s. Is going to a T20 worth the tuition/debt if I am no longer leaning towards going into academic medicine, and will going to a T50 school like UCI make it more difficult for me to reach my future career goals? Would greatly appreciate any advice or wisdom regarding my situation and thanks SO much for reading until the end

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[Goro]

Hey guys! Incoming MS1 here posting about a dilemma in choosing med schools. Quick background on my personal goals: I'm pretty set on pursuing medical oncology and hope to match into internal medicine at a top program in CA; not particularly interested in academia and leaning more towards private practice/100% seeing patients in the future.

I recently got a full-ride scholarship to my state school UC Irvine, but I need to commit to enroll by May 1 in order to keep this scholarship. It's always been my dream to stay in CA for med school, and I’m very happy with UCI in terms of its cost, location, proximity to family, and people I've met so far. But I’m afraid that its lower prestige will make matching into a good CA program harder. This situation is complicated by the fact that I am currently on infinite waitlists (UCSF, Cornell, WashU, Vandy, Mayo, Pritzker, Feinberg, Mt Sinai etc) and most of them wont start any waitlist movement until after Apr 30. I don’t think I will choose any of my other current acceptances over a full-ride to UCI, but I will gladly attend a school like UCSF (my dream school) if accepted off the WL even if they don't give me money.

TLDR: if I commit to UCI to retain the scholarship by May 1 then I’ll lose my chance to get off the WL at all of these aforementioned schools….but if I don’t commit, I’ll lose the scholarship and there’s no guarantee that I’ll get off any of my WLs.

I know everyone has different priorities but I guess my question is whether I should decline the UCI scholarship and gamble with my chances at being accepted off the WL to one of the T20s. Is going to a T20 worth the tuition/debt if I don't plan on going into academic medicine, and will going to a T50 school like UCI make it more difficult for me to reach my future career goals? Would greatly appreciate any advice or wisdom regarding my situation and thanks SO much for reading until the end

Full ride all the way. Beggars can't be choosy.

I suspect that you're lusting after the residencies that you think will be more open to you from the T20 schools, but your salary as an attending will still be the same as the people who went to those residencies.

 

[Lemonlime98]

Can you ask UCI about a 3 week extension? Or even a 2 week one? The thing is that you don't prefer any of your WLs except UCSF over UCI, so the debate is not UCI full ride vs. 8 WLs but rather UCI full ride vs. staying on UCSF wl. If I were you I'd stay on the WLs but that's only b/c I want to go into academic medicine and go match in specific region/state of country. B/c you want to do private practice I'd go with UCI, it would suck to not get in any of the WLs and also lose full ride. Also, does UCSF usually have a lot of WL movement?

 

[Davidfromcali]

Full ride to UCI>>>>debt at UCSF

No, UCI will not make it harder to reach your career goals. It’s a fine school with plenty of resources and opportunities to make connections in any field.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Woody Allen - Take The Money And Run - Bank Scene - YouTube

 

[deleted314957]

Top 50, top 20, top 5. Now I know all of you have had this ranking crap crammed down your throats since early high school or before. Please believe me. It sells magazines and makes students and parents antsy. Beyond that, it means very little. I have been involved directly in medicine since 1973 from student at a big middle of the road state school up to department chair for 23 years. You take the free ride. It makes a BIG difference in this day and age.
You will be able to get a fine medical education and you won’t hurt your chances. You are shooting for an IM residency and then a HEMEONC fellowship. No big deal. Take the free ride.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Take full-ride from UCI, work hard and aim to get into UCSF or UCLA or other top schools down the road. You have two more chances to aim for T20s (Residency and fellowship) and UCSF will cost you a fortune given COL.

 

[Med Ed]

Full ride. No question.

 

[Banco]

Are you not allowed to stay on waitlists after committing to one acceptance? Or is it that you can keep the acceptance but UCI doesn't let you keep the scholarship?

Kind of a weird scummy tactic if it's the latter.

 

[wysdoc]

Are you not allowed to stay on waitlists after committing to one acceptance? Or is it that you can keep the acceptance but UCI doesn't let you keep the scholarship?

Kind of a weird scummy tactic if it's the latter.

Specifically using "Commit to Enroll" on AMCAS requires you to drop off waitlists.
I agree with the consensus here, OP, you have seen that you are a sought-after candidate, now choose the California school which will make your financial life easier.

 

[Banco]

If it’s your dream to stay in Ca for medical school, then the majority of places you’re waitlisted at are already out. It’s really just UCSF right? Are they likely to give you strong aid even if you get off?

If it’s any of the non-California schools, would you really go there over a full ride at UCI?

 

[gramnegative]

Don't discount the freedom you will have from reducing your debt. If your plans change, not having >$200K in student loans will give you so much more latitude in making decisions.

 

[GoSpursGo]

It's honestly scummy that you can't stay on WLs beyond 5/1, but even if you got accepted today to UCSF I think the choice is clear. UCI is still a very good school, and free is free.

 

[Morc]

A full ride is worth a quarter-million McChicken's, so I'd go with that.

 

[pyrotechnicpork]

Hey guys! Incoming MS1 here posting about a dilemma in choosing med schools. Quick background on my personal goals: I'm pretty set on pursuing medical oncology and hope to match into internal medicine at a top program in CA; not particularly interested in academia and leaning more towards 100% seeing patients in the future.

I recently got a full-ride scholarship to my state school UC Irvine, but I need to commit to enroll by May 1 in order to keep this scholarship. It's always been my dream to stay in CA for med school, and I’m very happy with UCI in terms of its cost, location, proximity to family, and people I've met so far. But I’m afraid that its lower prestige will make matching into a good CA program harder. This situation is complicated by the fact that I am currently on infinite waitlists (UCSF, Cornell, WashU, Vandy, Mayo, Pritzker, Feinberg, Mt Sinai etc) and most of them wont start any waitlist movement until after Apr 30. I don’t think I will choose any of my other current acceptances over a full-ride to UCI, but I will gladly attend a school like UCSF (my dream school) if accepted off the WL even if they don't give me money.

TLDR: if I commit to UCI to retain the scholarship by May 1 then I’ll lose my chance to get off the WL at all of these aforementioned schools….but if I don’t commit, I’ll lose the scholarship and there’s no guarantee that I’ll get off any of my WLs.

I know everyone has different priorities but I guess my question is whether I should decline the UCI scholarship and gamble with my chances at being accepted off the WL to one of the T20s. Is going to a T20 worth the tuition/debt if I am no longer leaning towards going into academic medicine, and will going to a T50 school like UCI make it more difficult for me to reach my future career goals? Would greatly appreciate any advice or wisdom regarding my situation and thanks SO much for reading until the end

If you're certain that you have no interest in academic medicine, particularly competitive specialties, or going to one of the "Big Four" IM programs specifically, I would say take the full ride.

Even so, I have many friends who are attendings at prestigious academic centers who graduated from UCI so I don't think that any doors would be closed off by going there, it might just take some extra initiative on your part if you change your mind.

 

[wondervisions]

Irvine

 

[ChiDO]

Full ride. Not even a second thought. Your 35 yo self will thank you. And none of your patients will care or even know where you went to school.

 

[deleted314957]

If you're certain that you have no interest in academic medicine, particularly competitive specialties, or going to one of the "Big Four" IM programs specifically, I would say take the full ride.

Even so, I have many friends who are attendings at prestigious academic centers who graduated from UCI so I don't think that any doors would be closed off by going there, it might just take some extra initiative on your part if you change your mind.

Now there’s a quartet known as the “big four “ IM programs?! 48 years in medicine and i have no idea who they are. I never see anyone wearing school colors or walking on water.
Some of the very best physicians I have known most assuredly did NOT go to any residency or fellowship that would even be considered as such, unless U of F Gainesville is one of them. When will this ranking insanity stop. Physicians NEVER talk about this nonsense and nobody really knows who went where. Or if you did, it just rolled right off your back and you could not have cared less. Nobody is going to read your CV except the gal who is hiring you. And if you are so gouche as to mention just how elite you believe you are, she ain’t gonna hire you.

 

[IlDestriero]

Full ride. No question.
When you’re classmates are making decisions based on fear and debt, you’ll have the freedom to do what you want.

 

[ihaveagf]

Is your full scholarship all merit-based? Or, is it also financial need-based?
If you are from low-income, T20 schools will probably give you full tuition + some stipend or even full cost of living.

 

[efle]

Now there’s a quartet known as the “big four “ IM programs?! 48 years in medicine and i have no idea who they are. I never see anyone wearing school colors or walking on water.
Some of the very best physicians I have known most assuredly did NOT go to any residency or fellowship that would even be considered as such, unless U of F Gainesville is one of them. When will this ranking insanity stop. Physicians NEVER talk about this nonsense and nobody really knows who went where. Or if you did, it just rolled right off your back and you could not have cared less. Nobody is going to read your CV except the gal who is hiring you. And if you are so gouche as to mention just how elite you believe you are, she ain’t gonna hire you.

Haha you'd go nuts seeing it from the other side. People pissed off that their school dropped from the "top 5" for the first time in history...someone switching into their backup specialty to match a MGH-type program rather than go to UF-Gainesville type program in their original specialty. I will say that rotating at a "big 4" mothership versus the typical city hospitals is a pretty night and day difference.

Anyways to OP, do you expect you'd have to pay sticker price to UCSF, or would your family qualify for their (very generous) need aid? You could tell UCSF (and the others) about the exploding scholarship offer and at least get a financial aid estimate from them sooner than May 1 so you know what you're deciding between.

 

[pyrotechnicpork]

Now there’s a quartet known as the “big four “ IM programs?! 48 years in medicine and i have no idea who they are. I never see anyone wearing school colors or walking on water.
Some of the very best physicians I have known most assuredly did NOT go to any residency or fellowship that would even be considered as such, unless U of F Gainesville is one of them. When will this ranking insanity stop. Physicians NEVER talk about this nonsense and nobody really knows who went where. Or if you did, it just rolled right off your back and you could not have cared less. Nobody is going to read your CV except the gal who is hiring you. And if you are so gouche as to mention just how elite you believe you are, she ain’t gonna hire you.

Hi there, it seems like there's some misunderstanding here!

I agree with you that the idea of 'ranking' as an objective measure is not meaningful and is absurd. I in no way want to endorse the idea that a "big four" IM program (a term I have heard on this site and sporadically spoken by some attendings I've met, which seems to most commonly include MGH, JHU, UCSF, and UPenn BWH IM categorical residency programs although I could be mistaken) is some deific metric for actual training.

However, I can also say that many physicians I know, admittedly most of whom are academic physicians, do talk about this "nonsense," and people do, in fact, know who went where. This is, of course, anecdotal, so for anyone reading this, keep that in mind. From what I can tell, most patients, except for certain affluent patient populations don't care in the slightest.

I was trying to say that I think it's disingenuous to pretend like, for some reason, matching into these particular programs and other "prestigious" IM programs is not very competitive. Looking at the feeder schools that supply most matriculants to these programs supports that (data from Doximity). If OP is interested in an academic track at one of these particular programs, I think they may have the upper hand at UCSF, but they'd have to risk giving up a fantastic scholarship. Since OP does not seem interested in that, I think they should take the money and never look back.

We can agree that rankings don't matter with regard to the quality or competency of physicians while simultaneously not being Pollyanna about the potential impacts of "prestige"/competitiveness/reputation/whatever you want to call it on certain career pursuits in medicine.

 

[efle]

Hi there, it seems like there's some misunderstanding here!

I agree with you that the idea of 'ranking' as an objective measure is not meaningful and is absurd. I in no way want to endorse the idea that a "big four" IM program (a term I have heard on this site and sporadically spoken by some attendings I've met, which seems to most commonly include MGH, JHU, UCSF, and UPenn IM categorical residency programs although I could be mistaken) is some deific metric for actual training.

However, I can also say that many physicians I know, admittedly most of whom are academic physicians, do talk about this "nonsense," and people do, in fact, know who went where. This is, of course, anecdotal, so for anyone reading this, keep that in mind. From what I can tell, most patients, except for certain affluent patient populations don't care in the slightest.

I was trying to say that I think it's disingenuous to pretend like, for some reason, matching into these particular programs and other "prestigious" IM programs is not very competitive. Looking at the feeder schools that supply most matriculants to these programs supports that (data from Doximity). If OP is interested in an academic track at one of these particular programs, I think they may have the upper hand at UCSF, but they'd have to risk giving up a fantastic scholarship. Since OP does not seem interested in that, I think they should take the money and never look back.

"Big four" is Hopkins, MGH, UCSF and Brigham. The main appeal for that kind of med school or residency is matching more competitively (for residency/fellowship) and setting up for an academic career. Agree someone that knows they want community IM --> onc should take the money.

 

[pyrotechnicpork]

Thanks for the correction

"Big four" is Hopkins, MGH, UCSF and Brigham. The main appeal for that kind of med school or residency is matching more competitively (for residency/fellowship) and setting up for an academic career. Agree someone that knows they want community IM --> onc should take the money.

Thanks for the correction!

OP, take the money and never look back!

 

[Banco]

"Big four" is Hopkins, MGH, UCSF and Brigham. The main appeal for that kind of med school or residency is matching more competitively (for residency/fellowship) and setting up for an academic career. Agree someone that knows they want community IM --> onc should take the money.

I'd also say that there isn't just "Big 4" and "Community IM." There are plenty of other fantastic academic medical centers throughout the country. And then there are the hybrid centers.

There is a huge variety and spectrum, and the vast majority of schools can get their graduates to the vast majority of academic residencies. So you can take the money even if you want to go into academics, especially if one is taking the money from UCI.

 

[MDMechEngr]

it is a big IF, but If you do get off the WL at UCSF and they give you some money to where the delta between UCI and UCSF is around 100K. Maybe it would be worth the price. What ever makes you happy. Congrats on the UCI full ride. They did not even give me an interview.

 

[ssycv1]

Thank you all so much for the feedback and responses! This was very helpful I think I will go with UCI!