lk

[Lexdiamondz]

That’s because people who go into DO schools aren’t as academically driven for the most part.

Most of us couldn’t care less about winning the Nobel prize. A larger portion of us are older, have families and buried in debt than our MD counterparts. We just want to finish our education/training and get into the real world ASAP where we can be handsomely compensated for the work we do.

Dude, the mean age of matriculation for DOs is like 24, which is essentially the same for MDs. IDK what you're talking about.

DOs don't make any worse physicians than MDs, but let's not pretend that the reason people go to DO schools (which generally are more expensive, offer less financial aid and worse prospects in the match) is because they deliberately don't want academic careers.

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[AnatomyGrey12]

but let's not pretend that the reason people go to DO schools (which generally are more expensive, offer less financial aid and worse prospects in the match) is because they deliberately don't want academic careers.

He literally never said this.... and if you look at the numbers yes DO schools have a higher percentage of older students than MD schools.

His analysis is 100% correct. The vast majority of DO students are not as academically driven and have no desire to pursue academics.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

He literally never said this.... and if you look at the numbers yes DO schools have a higher percentage of older students than MD schools.

His analysis is 100% correct. The vast majority of DO students are not as academically driven and have no desire to pursue academics.

So then why is everyone making such a big fuss about the DOs who manage to break into top-tier academic institutions if you lot could care less about academics?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So then why is everyone making such a big fuss about the DOs who manage to break into top-tier academic institutions if you lot could care less about academics?

Who is making a big fuss?

 

[workaholic181]

Yea honestly I'm not interested in academia either I was just curious as to what constituted academic vs community programs in philly.

One last question I'd love to get your opinions about; do community IM residencies really doom your chances for fellowships? PCOM sends a ton of people to Lankenau and Pennsylvania hospital each year (community programs with in house fellowships) but not a whole lot to academic centers locally. Would going to one of these programs really make it that much harder to do a fellowship?

 

[QueenJames]

Dude, the mean age of matriculation for DOs is like 24, which is essentially the same for MDs. IDK what you're talking about.

DOs don't make any worse physicians than MDs, but let's not pretend that the reason people go to DO schools (which generally are more expensive, offer less financial aid and worse prospects in the match) is because they deliberately don't want academic careers.

He was simply saying that there are many non-trads that wanna stack that dough and don't care about prestige and the big name-brand programs many people on here seem to care about and jerk themselves off to before sleeping at night.

 

[hallowmann]

I mean, if you are arguing that it is possible, sure. But it is obvious there aren't many DOs in academic medicine. That is the reality which is clear as day. You seem to be claiming that it is mainly due to DOs just not wanting to do academic medicine, which seems pretty farfetched. A lot of DOs are just people who basically just missed the cut and didn't get into MD schools. I am not sure I buy the idea that they overwhelmingly just made the choice to not go into academia.

In the midwest there are a lot of DOs in academic medicine. Its not surprising that a lot of academic medicine programs that take DOs as residents, also take DOs as attendings. There are actually decent numbers of them. But to be honest, physicians in general don't go into academic medicine. It is absolutely true that the majority of DOs don't want to go into academia, just as the majority of MDs (>80%) don't go into academia.

There aren't many DO in academic medicine... If DO for instance make up 20%-25% of the physician workforce, <10% are in academic medicine in few programs I rotated in the south and the Northeast

DOs make up 20-25% of US medical graduates, but NOT 20-25% of the US physician workforce. They only make up something like 10% of the US physician workforce. There's only like 100k DOs out there in practice, compared to around a million physicians in the US. Something like 1/5-1/3 of DOs in practice are residents/fellows.

Seeing <10% DOs in academia isn't all that surprising given the actual numbers.

Yea honestly I'm not interested in academia either I was just curious as to what constituted academic vs community programs in philly.

One last question I'd love to get your opinions about; do community IM residencies really doom your chances for fellowships? PCOM sends a ton of people to Lankenau and Pennsylvania hospital each year (community programs with in house fellowships) but not a whole lot to academic centers locally. Would going to one of these programs really make it that much harder to do a fellowship?

Generally speaking attaining a fellowship is easier coming out of an academic program, but its not impossible coming from a community program when you're going for less competitive fields, less competitive regions, or if you have in-house community fellowships.

 

[rg2o3]

Just a quick question kind of on topic and did not want to make a new thread for. I am also interested in working as a hospitalist and as of right now (will probably change many times), am thinking that I will pursue IM. With that said, how difficult is it for FM to work as hospitalists? Also, is the pay significantly less for the FM hospitalists?

 

[InternistDO]

My understanding is that its geographically dependent, and also dependent on your specific FM training, since some programs only have the minimum 6 months of inpatient, while others have significantly more.

You might be better off asking in the family medicine forum though.

 

[John1513]

I’d like any institution that questions the “academic background” of a potential DO staff physician to speak with a lawyer from the AOA.

 

[NurWollen]

I’d like any institution that questions the “academic background” of a potential DO staff physician to speak with a lawyer from the AOA.

Are you kidding? The AOA's too busy trying to convince us that we don't really want to train at that academic program.

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[John1513]

Are you kidding? The AOA's too busy trying to convince us that we don't really want to train at that academic program.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

Not true: contact these guys. They will advocate.

Charlie Simpson

Chief Communications Officer

AMERICAN OSTEOPATHIC ASSOCIATION

142 E. Ontario St.

Chicago, IL 60611-2864

312-202-8041

 

[Stagg737]

So then why is everyone making such a big fuss about the DOs who manage to break into top-tier academic institutions if you lot could care less about academics?

There's also a difference between breaking into an academic position and breaking into a top-tier academic position. Breaking into a top-tier program is a big deal for any physician, not just DOs.

 

[hallowmann]

Just a quick question kind of on topic and did not want to make a new thread for. I am also interested in working as a hospitalist and as of right now (will probably change many times), am thinking that I will pursue IM. With that said, how difficult is it for FM to work as hospitalists? Also, is the pay significantly less for the FM hospitalists?

Training dependent. Go to an inpatient heavy residency and you'll have sufficient training. Pay is based on the job, not FM or IM. Some places will prefer one over the other, but most won't care.

 

[SLC]

Just a quick question kind of on topic and did not want to make a new thread for. I am also interested in working as a hospitalist and as of right now (will probably change many times), am thinking that I will pursue IM. With that said, how difficult is it for FM to work as hospitalists? Also, is the pay significantly less for the FM hospitalists?

One of my classmates in FM residency is going to practice as a hospitalist at one of our hospitals (one that was depicted on a famous TV show no less). She’s paid the same, but the one caveat is that she can’t attend the IM resident teams. She can do the non-teaching service and attend our Family Medicine team (which she’s planning to do), but to attend the IM teams they require ABIM certified physicians not ABFM.

I’m not going to do it exclusively, but I’ll be doing some hospital medicine in a few weeks at my new job.

It’s more common than you’d think.

 

[rg2o3]

One of my classmates in FM residency is going to practice as a hospitalist at one of our hospitals (one that was depicted on a famous TV show no less). She’s paid the same, but the one caveat is that she can’t attend the IM resident teams. She can do the non-teaching service and attend our Family Medicine team (which she’s planning to do), but to attend the IM teams they require ABIM certified physicians not ABFM.

I’m not going to do it exclusively, but I’ll be doing some hospital medicine in a few weeks at my new job.

It’s more common than you’d think.

Awesome. Thanks for the insight!