Future of Pharmacy...good and bad

[qwead]

With the economy going downhill, more pharm schools opening...what will the job outlook be? demand for pharmacists?...here in my hometown(So.FL) retail is not hiring any new pharmacists and walgreens is planning to layoff 20% of there current workers, hrs being cut in the hospitals and new grads not getting job offers...what will the future look like..any suggestions or opinions

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[PumpkinSmasher]

With the economy going downhill, more pharm schools opening...what will the job outlook be? demand for pharmacists?...here in my hometown(So.FL) retail is not hiring any new pharmacists and walgreens is planning to layoff 20% of there current workers, hrs being cut in the hospitals and new grads not getting job offers...what will the future look like..any suggestions or opinions

I am watching you...

 

[RNtoPharmD]

who told you about these news? What are your sources?

 

[glory4england]

Yeah, for the past few days posts about the hiring freeze and the future of pharmacists is in ruin had really scared me. I'm still in prepharm and applying this year. Maybe the economy will pick up and the job market will be great for pharmacists again. Maybe not. But I believe that if you're good at what you do and love what you do, you'll find a job that you will be happy in. Maybe pharmacists will have to take a pay cut (image that), maybe the locations won't be so great, but things can't always go our way.

Or maybe I'm being cup half full and all pharmacists will be let go tomorrow and replace by pharmacy technicians and giant flying monkeys who can prescribe pills at supersonic speed AND deliver them too

 

[stlouis79]

the key to success in the job market is to make yourself an indispensable employee. play the politics, have a strong work ethics, and most importantly....dont complain. If employers like you....they will want you around. Follow that advice and you will always have a job.

 

[SHC1984]

The only things you can do is:
1) move out of south fl
2) forget about sign on bonuses they are GONE FOREVER...sorry
3) graduate ASAP (3 year pharmacy schools anyone?? ) and find a retail job ASAP BEFORE its all taken up!

 

[Jaded03]

That last post is pretty realistic from what I've seen with respect to retail.

For SoCal,
Pharmacists are being forced into floating at least 1 shift (two staff pharmacists feel they're tenured enough to only work 32 a week and we are still over RPh budget, forcing the third pharmacist into a corner). Newly hired pharmacists are not getting 40 hours (a newly licensed pharmacist who had no work for about half a week dropped by for chitchat). Corporate nullified the 10 hour work shift and froze all tech hiring (encouraging floater technicians) in 2009.

Also, all Longs pharmacists that were near a CVS were sent over for a "meeting" and were offered an application to apply for placement in CVS as their stores will close and they are not all automatically hired. Nice!

 

[genesis09]

Walgreens is not planning to lay off 20% of their workers. I haven't heard of them laying off any store level employees.

 

[PharMed2016]

Walgreens is not planning to lay off 20% of their workers. I haven't heard of them laying off any store level employees.

I think it depends on where you are in the country. Down in the south, particularly in FL, there are layoffs and hiring freezes for Walgreens. However, if you look at it... it isn't just pharmacy but everything.

I just want some hours when I graduate to pay down my loans. Hopefully, the economy will improve by the time I graduate.

 

[FuturePharmist]

I think it depends on where you are in the country. Down in the south, particularly in FL, there are layoffs and hiring freezes for Walgreens. However, if you look at it... it isn't just pharmacy but everything.

I just want some hours when I graduate to pay down my loans. Hopefully, the economy will improve by the time I graduate.

Yeah I'm in Tampa, FL and none of the Walgreens here are hiring anyone. I went to about 5 different stores and they said they were on a hiring freeze unless they desperately needed a tech. I lucked out because of my experience and certification as I was just hired this week at a store because a full time tech is leaving next week. They said in August the store will move to the power system and they WILL be cutting tech hours. I told them I most likely won't be here in August and I'm hoping to be a pharmacy student so I fit in nicely with their plans.

 

[Frederico Albin]

i think it depends on where you are in the country. Down in the south, particularly in fl, there are layoffs and hiring freezes for walgreens. However, if you look at it... It isn't just pharmacy but everything.

I just want some hours when i graduate to pay down my loans. Hopefully, the economy will improve by the time i graduate.

hopefully!!!!

 

[Kruton]

Stop this crap. WE ARE IN A RECESSION. Of course there is going to be growth slowdowns but this is understandable. Pharmacy is still one of the best looking professions in the market. If you are scared, don't apply. If you are reasonable, go ahead and apply.

 

[Frederico Albin]

Stop this crap. WE ARE IN A RECESSION. Of course there is going to be growth slowdowns but this is understandable. Pharmacy is still one of the best looking professions in the market. If you are scared, don't apply. If you are reasonable, go ahead and apply.

We all know what a recession is and what kind of changes it makes as far as "unemployment" goes. Re-read the thread before you start typing... We are not just talking about the economic situation of the US...
New pharmacy schools = more pharmacists, so lets hope that this recession doesn't last a long time like mentioned earlier.
Yes, job layoffs are happening everywhere in the US, and even tho the health field is probably one of the most steady fields, some pharmacists out there are not going to escape. (WOW YOU DIDNT KNOW THIS?LOL)
In my opinion, "relocating" will become the main issue to newly grads trying to find a job in the next few years. Notice that I bold "main".
Once you graduate, you will have tons of opportunities out there to choose from.

GL

 

[Kruton]

We all know what a recession is and what kind of changes it makes as far as "unemployment" goes. Re-read the thread before you start typing... We are not just talking about the economic situation of the US...
New pharmacy schools = more pharmacists, so lets hope that this recession doesn't last a long time like mentioned earlier.
Yes, job layoffs are happening everywhere in the US, and even tho the health field is probably one of the most steady fields, some pharmacists out there are not going to escape. (WOW YOU DIDNT KNOW THIS?LOL)
In my opinion, "relocating" will become the main issue to newly grads trying to find a job in the next few years. Notice that I bold "main".
Once you graduate, you will have tons of opportunities out there to choose from.

GL

Uhhh I don't get what I am missing bud. Half of his list of problems is due to the recession.

New pharmacy schools do equal more pharmacists. Now this is not so bad as pharmacy is still vastly growing. And if we did not step up to that new growth with more pharmacists, D.C. would have all the reason go ahead with tech verification. Really no way around that.

I don't appreciate the (unfounded) rudeness. Actually, I think your comprehension skills need work because no where did I indicate some pharmacists wouldn't be laid off.

You are only really on point with the last part. Plenty of opportunities are available. It may not be like the last couple of years, but they will still be really good.

 

[stlouis79]

Didn't you people hear that the world is gonna end in 2012? Hell, Im taking out as many loans as i can get just to have a little fun before it's over. Forget about studying and for god's sake, quit worrying about the recession. But seriously, unless you are graduating this year don't worry so much. It is what it is.

 

[stlouis79]

Didn't you people hear that the world is gonna end in 2012? Hell, Im taking out as many loans as i can get just to have a little fun before it's over. Forget about studying and for god's sake, quit worrying about the recession. But seriously, unless you are graduating this year don't worry so much. It is what it is.

In all reality the smartest thing you can do, unless your socially inept, is to make connections with people. Your gonna be in pharmacy school three or four years. Network. You'll be interning at numerous pharmacies. Become friends with the pharmacist, show your motivation, have a strong work ethic, be likable. When it comes time to get a job you should have plenty of people who will want to vouch to a potential employer for you. Its the way to success.

 

[thephoenician88]

With the economy going downhill, more pharm schools opening...what will the job outlook be? demand for pharmacists?...here in my hometown(So.FL) retail is not hiring any new pharmacists and walgreens is planning to layoff 20% of there current workers, hrs being cut in the hospitals and new grads not getting job offers...what will the future look like..any suggestions or opinions

first of all, hopefully in 4 years (for me) the economy will take a turn
2nd: i'm sure all healthcare is impacted, docs not seeing patients b/c patients don't want to pay copays meaning cuts everywhere etc.
3rd: even though healthcare is impacted, it's the one field that will resist...what do people care about? Staying alive, and as long as there is a need for prescriptions pharmacists are there.
4th: you're looking at this from only 1 location, there are plenty of areas that still need pharmacists
5th: walgreens in your area is laying off workers....ok...i work at walgreens and haven't seen ANY cuts in my area nor any news of company wide cuts
6th: when you go to pharmacy school, you're still earning a doctorate, perhaps you should look into what else you could do with a pharmd rather than cry about retail and your perfect setting as you see it now.

 

[echogene]

The economic downturn will cause some problems with retail pharmacy, but what other jobs are available? Health care is a clear winner in this environment because it allows one to be useful in other countries outside of the U.S. That is the key to job security in the coming depression...having a useful job and being able to find the countries with stronger currencies with a stronger GDP (not one based on 72% consumption).

I think there's going to be massive problems in the United States as the government and the federal reserve monetizes a CDS market which was built on debt. Over 50 trillion in I.O.U.s with no underlying assets. This, coupled with the implications of quantitative easing and China's massive domestic stimulus plan, will cause a net inflow of dollars. This will lead to stagflation and further unemployment. Meanwhile John Thain's remodeling his office for 1.2 million?

in the end, obama's socialist nation will probably create more jobs in health care, but at the expense of the dollar's purchasing power. Watch as debt/gdp ratio rises well above the 400% figure we're currently at...

Ultimately, if you are educated in a field that is useful around the world, you'll have less problems. Imagine the people trying to start pharmacy school 5 years from now! You have a great head start, for sure!

 

[JackFruitLover]

I heard some where that pharmaceutical companies that would traditionally hire Ph.D.s or MDs are now hiring Pharm.D.s, so that might help the situation out.

 

[Tatodotcom]

Uhhh I don't get what I am missing bud. Half of his list of problems is due to the recession.

New pharmacy schools do equal more pharmacists. Now this is not so bad as pharmacy is still vastly growing. And if we did not step up to that new growth with more pharmacists, D.C. would have all the reason go ahead with tech verification. Really no way around that.

I don't appreciate the (unfounded) rudeness. Actually, I think your comprehension skills need work because no where did I indicate some pharmacists wouldn't be laid off.

You are only really on point with the last part. Plenty of opportunities are available. It may not be like the last couple of years, but they will still be really good.

+1 i agree....ITS A DAMN RECESSION PEOPLE EVERY COMPANY OUT THERE ARE DOING THE SAME THINGS!.... and every profession is being "flooded" with more graduates because of cheap loans and in state scholarships becoming more readily avaliable and more people are going to college and graduate school today than ever....everyone needs to stop watching FOX and CNN about how we are all doomed.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

But in the last few recessions, unemployment for pharmacists were virtually 0 percent compared to now. I think you guys should look into JDs (attorneys) and see how their situation is. Recession or not, they always got guys coming out with almost no job offers and 120k in debt.

I think we have to focus on how to stop new schools from turning pharmacy into the next JD/MBA than be in a state of denial. Better to fix the problem now than speculate and take action when it becomes too late.

 

[echogene]

+1 i agree....ITS A DAMN RECESSION PEOPLE EVERY COMPANY OUT THERE ARE DOING THE SAME THINGS!.... and every profession is being "flooded" with more graduates because of cheap loans and in state scholarships becoming more readily avaliable and more people are going to college and graduate school today than ever....everyone needs to stop watching FOX and CNN about how we are all doomed.

Couple of points I'd like to dispute

1. This is just a recession - How can this be "just a recession"? Have you seen how large the adjusted monetary base is? Couple that with an extremely low velocity of money and you have some major problems. Washington Mutual - gone. Countrywide - gone. Fannie mae - gone. Freddie mac - gone. These are institutions that have survived previous economic downturns. Hell, WaMu was even around during the Great Depression. This is not, by any means, a run-of-the-mill recession. The monetary excesses from the Greenspan years are just too vast, as can be seen in the record low yields in the bond market. Ooops, was there just a pretty botched 5-year auction?

2. Loans are actually not getting cheap at all. Didn't BofA stop with private student loans? This is the one bright spot during this economic downturn...cheap credit and cheap loans caused the cost of education to rise substantially, but costs were supported by ridiculous loans. As credit dries up, the cost of school should drop to meet demand...and people won't be able to afford these lowered costs either. So we have cheaper school with less competition.

 

[Frederico Albin]

Uhhh I don't get what I am missing bud. Half of his list of problems is due to the recession.

New pharmacy schools do equal more pharmacists. Now this is not so bad as pharmacy is still vastly growing. And if we did not step up to that new growth with more pharmacists, D.C. would have all the reason go ahead with tech verification. Really no way around that.

I don't appreciate the (unfounded) rudeness. Actually, I think your comprehension skills need work because no where did I indicate some pharmacists wouldn't be laid off.

You are only really on point with the last part. Plenty of opportunities are available. It may not be like the last couple of years, but they will still be really good.

I was only referring to you on my first few sentences... and I was not trying to be rude, sorry if I sounded like that. Maybe you confused the part in parentheses like I was pointing straight at you, but meant to say it to everybody.

 

[Tatodotcom]

Couple of points I'd like to dispute

1. This is just a recession - How can this be "just a recession"? Have you seen how large the adjusted monetary base is? Couple that with an extremely low velocity of money and you have some major problems. Washington Mutual - gone. Countrywide - gone. Fannie mae - gone. Freddie mac - gone. These are institutions that have survived previous economic downturns. Hell, WaMu was even around during the Great Depression. This is not, by any means, a run-of-the-mill recession. The monetary excesses from the Greenspan years are just too vast, as can be seen in the record low yields in the bond market. Ooops, was there just a pretty botched 5-year auction?

2. Loans are actually not getting cheap at all. Didn't BofA stop with private student loans? This is the one bright spot during this economic downturn...cheap credit and cheap loans caused the cost of education to rise substantially, but costs were supported by ridiculous loans. As credit dries up, the cost of school should drop to meet demand...and people won't be able to afford these lowered costs either. So we have cheaper school with less competition.

1. companies that have survived a previous recession does not mean that they are not prone to failing a....all of those companies have/had serious infrastructure problems that lead to their failure accompanied by the econonmy....and as for loans....read some sections of the new bill that passed recently and get back to me

 

[atticus27]

I'll buy you all a nice big ice cream cone if you promise to shut the **** up about pharmacy's doomsday.

You know things could be worse. You could have just woken up and realized you're a psych major(college party degree) But 95% of them know they're not gonna use that degree anyways.

 

[Jdario86]

Ok. I'm jumping on this.

I think as long as people continue getting sick, there will always be a demand for pharmacists. Rather than starting a rebellion against the establishment of new pharmacy schools, we should all band together and start an epidemic of some sort so more people can get sick and the demand for pharmacists stays high. An Ebola outbreak perhaps? No - we should do the Avian flu instead so people can suspect the asians of starting it and not aspiring neurotic pharmacists.

Yes, now that sounds more rational.

 

[TonyRx]

Okay, here is what you have to do to survive:

1) Build a shelter, preferably in the side of a mountain, and roughly 50-100ft in depth(purely an estimate).

2) Stock up a 3-5 years supply of Tuna, Various Canned Food, Bourbon, Twinkies, Water, X-rated Magazines, Drugs(legal of course) and a Hall N' Oates CD.

3) Purchase several semi-automatic weapons, a 12-gauge shotgun, 5000 rounds of ammo and some radioactive gear.

4) Get a reliable short-wave radio, so you can stay in contact with other survivors and outposts.

5) Don't panic, the fallout will only last a few years and cooler heads will prevail.

If you follow these rules, you should survive the impending collapse of society as we know it.

 

[Jdario86]

Okay, here is what you have to do to survive:


2) Stock up a 3-5 years supply of Tuna, Various Canned Food, Bourbon, Twinkies, Water, X-rated Magazines, Drugs(legal of course) and a Hall N' Oates CD.

Agree with the Hall N' Oates CD and everything else but the twinkies. Transfatty acids are bad for you and I can't go for that (No can do).

 

[thecowmooz]

Wow... I was wondering the same thing about the future of Pharmacy today since we were discussing supply and demand in ECN. Basically its more profitable if we have less pharmacist because demand is high, but then all these people go into pharmacy and the demand decreases so it could possibly mean pharmacist have to take a pay cut or there will be more competition.

I was also wondering if the demand for pharmacist will really decrease. I mean everyone needs drugs nowadays and the baby boomers are going into retirement...

 

[echogene]

1. companies that have survived a previous recession does not mean that they are not prone to failing a....all of those companies have/had serious infrastructure problems that lead to their failure accompanied by the econonmy....and as for loans....read some sections of the new bill that passed recently and get back to me

1. I completely agree that these companies had serious infrastructure problems that led to their failure, but we have to question whether these company failures are isolated instances, or are they a result of something larger...are 10% moves in the currency markets (over a one month period) normal? Is a ~40% downturn in the stock market normal? Iceland going bankrupt? Bond yields shooting up 60 bp in several weeks...these indicate a very unhealthy situation for the U.S. AND for the rest of the world. The key question is which countries survive and which countries don't. As for the U.S...hello Zimbabwe!

2. No way the student loan bill works if we have no funding. Quantitative easing can compensate to a certain extent, but completely in-house funding through a printing press is madness. Half of U.S. treasuries are in social security and medicare...of the remaining treasuries, approximately half are owned by foreigners. No possible way we can fund off someone else's dollar with those types of statistics. The government can talk all they want, but we have very little foreign currency reserves and other countries are holding a lot of treasuries.

 

[SHC1984]

But in the last few recessions, unemployment for pharmacists were virtually 0 percent compared to now. I think you guys should look into JDs (attorneys) and see how their situation is. Recession or not, they always got guys coming out with almost no job offers and 120k in debt.

I think we have to focus on how to stop new schools from turning pharmacy into the next JD/MBA than be in a state of denial. Better to fix the problem now than speculate and take action when it becomes too late.

This is an opinion of an already practicing pharmacist (most already practicing pharmacists will agree with this opinion!) I think is funny that there are still people out there that thinks there is such a thing as a sign on bonus or that there is a shortage of pharmacists! Its either wishful thinking or just plain naivety.

Retail jobs will get harder and harder to get...better get one before they are all gone...

 

[mustang sally]

Personally I think our whole country is in ruin. Can't get a job as a pharmacist? Well good luck getting a job as something else. Although other professions don't carry quite the butt load of loans that we do, so that could be a slight fly in the ointment if you can't find a job after you graduate. Anyway, I agree with the comment no more new schools!

 

[Jdario86]

Let me get this straight...

'New Schools' Arguement: Currently, pharmacists in retail are still high in demand and the different areas in pharmacy practice are gradually expanding (ie. pharma, consulting, government etc.). Establishing new pharmacy schools will lead to new pharmacists to help meet this demand, help more people and in the long run it will be a benefit to mankind.

'No New Schools' Argument: Soon the demand will be met and the competition for many pharmacist jobs will increase. I don't want any more new pharmacy schools because I don't want someone else taking my job. I'm willing to compromise the betterment of healthcare by hindering its growth so i don't have to feel pressured in improving my skills as a pharmacist to make myself more marketable or resorting to other fields in pharmacy other than retail (ie. industry, govt etc.). In pharmacy, my job security comes first.

I'm sure if you present this 'no new schools' argument to the ACPE, they will totally agree with you.

 

[Kruton]

I was only referring to you on my first few sentences... and I was not trying to be rude, sorry if I sounded like that. Maybe you confused the part in parentheses like I was pointing straight at you, but meant to say it to everybody.

Oh it's cool, I kind of jumped also.

 

[Carboxide]

Well I'm just glad I want to stay here in Michigan to practice! No one else wants to live here so I bet I'm pretty set

 

[ThatPerson]

When I search for pharmacist in careerbuilder.com I see lots of job ads for pharmacist. Is this indicative of anything?

 

[FresnoPharmD]

I think this is being overblown. The recession has hit everyone hard and our field is no exception. It's only natural that there are going to be budget cuts for companies in times like these and yes, that will include a reduction/removal of bonuses, reduction of hours and hiring freezes.

With that said, I HIGHLY doubt it will stay that way once the economy rebounds. I'm not sure about you guys, but before this whole crash really gained momentum, we had Longs and Walgreens going up left and right where I live, and the hospital I work at was begging for pharmacists to pull a shift here and there. Two of my friends got offers to become managers at Longs right out of school just last year. I don't think that the entire market became saturated in a year...nor is it going to be for awhile.

There will be more pharmacists coming out, no question. But there will also be more older people (baby boomers), those old people are going to live longer than they ever have before (and thus be on more meds), people rarely ever leave the doctor's office without a script now, and advances in medicine will be able to treat an even wider array of diseases with innovative new drugs. When the economy stabilizes, I think this will become pretty evident. FUNDAMENTALLY, nothing has changed from a couple years ago when this was the profession that dreams were made of...we're just in a slightly rough situation along with everyone else for the time being.

Have a little patience and a little faith. If you're really worried, make yourself valuable. Do a residency. Specialize. Make connections and network. Make yourself available to a number of different pharmacies to call you when they need you. I doubt any of us will be starving...hang in there.

 

[Jdario86]

I think this is being overblown. The recession has hit everyone hard and our field is no exception. It's only natural that there are going to be budget cuts for companies in times like these and yes, that will include a reduction/removal of bonuses, reduction of hours and hiring freezes.

With that said, I HIGHLY doubt it will stay that way once the economy rebounds. I'm not sure about you guys, but before this whole crash really gained momentum, we had Longs and Walgreens going up left and right where I live, and the hospital I work at was begging for pharmacists to pull a shift here and there. Two of my friends got offers to become managers at Longs right out of school just last year. I don't think that the entire market became saturated in a year...nor is it going to be for awhile.

There will be more pharmacists coming out, no question. But there will also be more older people (baby boomers), those old people are going to live longer than they ever have before (and thus be on more meds), people rarely ever leave the doctor's office without a script now, and advances in medicine will be able to treat an even wider array of diseases with innovative new drugs. When the economy stabilizes, I think this will become pretty evident. FUNDAMENTALLY, nothing has changed from a couple years ago when this was the profession that dreams were made of...we're just in a slightly rough situation along with everyone else for the time being.

Have a little patience and a little faith. If you're really worried, make yourself valuable. Do a residency. Specialize. Make connections and network. Make yourself available to a number of different pharmacies to call you when they need you. I doubt any of us will be starving...hang in there.

That's rational

It's reassuring that someone understands the game. At the end, it doesn't matter how much you know or what school you came from - it's all about who you know. I think making connections is so important. In order to make connections, you need to get out there, network, and befriend other pharmacists/scientists who can potentially lead you to these connections.

Depending on your book smarts and your school's prestige status will not help you make those connections. It can help you reach those connections -yes- but you need strong communication and networking skills to land those connects.

You can either panic and speculate about what the future entails or be proactive & make yourself marketable.

 

[Hels2007]

Pharmacy students became spoiled by hearing about large sign-on bonuses and multiple job offers before graduation for the last decade or so. It wasn't the case before, and it will not be the case in the future, and for many other professions it was never the case. Nonetheless, as long as you work hard, and are willing to relocate, and try different things, you are highly unlikely to be without a job with a pharmacy degree. There is still need for pharmacists in many less desirable areas of the country, for example, as well as in Indian Health Service and in the military.

And in any industry or profession, some people are more competitive than others, so make yourself competitive. Gain variety of experiences while at school. Network. Consider residency or fellowship. Learn another language (depending on the geography, it doesn't have to be just Spanish). Start working for a chain or a major hospital now, so they have a few years to learn to appreciate you, so they will offer you a job when you graduate.

 

[SHC1984]

Pharmacy students became spoiled by hearing about large sign-on bonuses and multiple job offers before graduation for the last decade or so. It wasn't the case before, and it will not be the case in the future, and for many other professions it was never the case. Nonetheless, as long as you work hard, and are willing to relocate, and try different things, you are highly unlikely to be without a job with a pharmacy degree. There is still need for pharmacists in many less desirable areas of the country, for example, as well as in Indian Health Service and in the military.

And in any industry or profession, some people are more competitive than others, so make yourself competitive. Gain variety of experiences while at school. Network. Consider residency or fellowship. Learn another language (depending on the geography, it doesn't have to be just Spanish). Start working for a chain or a major hospital now, so they have a few years to learn to appreciate you, so they will offer you a job when you graduate.

I thought it was very easy to find a job before? I know someone that got a 30K bonus ten years ago...now you can't even find a $1 bonus!

 

[Kruton]

I thought it was very easy to find a job before? I know someone that got a 30K bonus ten years ago...now you can't even find a $1 bonus!

Before the big "shortage" is what he was talking about.