Future?

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Cranjis McBasketball

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Is the inability for some of schools to fill all their seats a good thing? (less saturation and competition in podiatry in the future along with screening out bad applicants) Or is it more negative based and more about the career being phased out by other providers? What are your thoughts/predictions?

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I don't have any worries. This has been brought up a few times in the past and the usual consensus is that podiatry isn't going away and the outlook for the profession is getting better and better.
 
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Is the inability for some of schools to fill all their seats a good thing? (less saturation and competition in podiatry in the future along with screening out bad applicants) Or is it more negative based and more about the career being phased out by other providers? What are your thoughts/predictions?

Good question...I don't know a lot about podiatry but I've seen fields that were extremely hot get decimated with over-saturation from programs popping up left and right...current students/new grads should have a good pulse about the current state of the field
 
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Good question...I don't know a lot about podiatry but I've seen fields that were extremely hot get decimated with over-saturation from programs popping up left and right...current students/new grads should have a good pulse about the current state of the field
Agreed, I am not in pod school so I am looking for opinions from those are are in the trenches of the profession currently!
 
Is the inability for some of schools to fill all their seats a good thing? (less saturation and competition in podiatry in the future along with screening out bad applicants) Or is it more negative based and more about the career being phased out by other providers? What are your thoughts/predictions?
Probably has good and bad sides to it. You mentioned some of the good things, but I would argue that not filling the schools is more related to a lack of interest as opposed to screening out bad applicants. It probably means that more students with low GPAs are being admitted than when there were plenty of applicants and competition was high (relatively).
 
Podiatry is doing fine right now. They do too much stuff that Ortho's don't bother with. Plus there's a tremendous aging population
 
Probably has good and bad sides to it. You mentioned some of the good things, but I would argue that not filling the schools is more related to a lack of interest as opposed to screening out bad applicants. It probably means that more students with low GPAs are being admitted than when there were plenty of applicants and competition was high (relatively).
Someone a couple of days ago that attends NYCPM said their school had not filled their seats in part because they lost students to Temple (due to NYCPM not putting money back into their facilities) and also because their applicant pool was down from what it usually is and they decided to be selective rather than fill the seats with people with low stats. Their post was deleted immediately somehow, I only saw it because it was a reply to one of my posts. Anyway, I repeated him and then OP repeated me on the selectivity aspect.

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Someone a couple of days ago that attends NYCPM said their school had not filled their seats in part because they lost students to Temple (due to NYCPM not putting money back into their facilities) and also because their applicant pool was down from what it usually is and they decided to be selective rather than fill the seats with people with low stats. Their post was deleted immediately somehow, I only saw it because it was a reply to one of my posts. Anyway, I repeated him and then OP repeated me on the selectivity aspect.

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Not that I wouldn't trust NYCPM, but it sounds a lot like a good story to tell your students if enrollment suddenly went in the tank. Most of the schools, especially large stand-alone schools, have a less than stellar track record when it comes to being selective with filling their classes. All of the schools got hit hard with the decrease in applicants
 
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Someone a couple of days ago that attends NYCPM said their school had not filled their seats in part because they lost students to Temple (due to NYCPM not putting money back into their facilities) and also because their applicant pool was down from what it usually is and they decided to be selective rather than fill the seats with people with low stats. Their post was deleted immediately somehow, I only saw it because it was a reply to one of my posts. Anyway, I repeated him and then OP repeated me on the selectivity aspect.

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You go to temple right? Have you been satisfied with the experience/curriculum so far?
 
Since the new DO grade replacement change is about to come in may, I foresee a massive uptick in podiatry applicants next year.

Also, pod schools are getting filled with really quality people. Everyone on my interview trail had a higher MCAT than me and was either doing a masters, research, or both. The ambassadors on my interview day also had something like 505 MCAT and 3.7 GPA. Pod school isn't for the 2.7, 490 (18) crowd anymore.
 
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Since the new DO grade replacement change is about to come in may, I foresee a massive uptick in podiatry applicants next year.

Also, pod schools are getting filled with really quality people. Everyone on my interview trail had a higher MCAT than me and was either doing a masters, research, or both. The ambassadors on my interview day also had something like 505 MCAT and 3.7 GPA. Pod school isn't for the 2.7, 490 (18) crowd anymore.
Agreed. That along with the new merger of the MD/DO residencies is going to lead to more pod applicants. However, the real reason many don't apply to pod school, in my opinion, is because they don't even know its an option!
 
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However, the real reason many don't apply to pod school, in my opinion, is because they don't even know its an option!
I agree with this. They either don't realize that podiatry school exists or they don't know what podiatry school is, what podiatrists learn, or what they do. It can't be because "feet are gross" like some people say. Like a proctologist digging around in rectums or a gynecologist or other doctor peeping some fresh genital warts is supposed to be sexy? Nah brah, nah. Any doctor is gonna see people at their worst, so if someone can't handle feet because "they're gross", I hope that person doesn't make it into any kinda of medical school.


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Agreed. That along with the new merger of the MD/DO residencies is going to lead to more pod applicants. However, the real reason many don't apply to pod school, in my opinion, is because they don't even know its an option!

Agree x2. The more I learn about podiatry the more I'm shocked more students aren't flocking towards the profession. Sadly from what I can see trolls and wackjobs (podpost.us), general ignorance, and those pesky spam-like emails every MCAT taker gets have all contributed in giving Podiatry a negative stigma. I appreciate people on here making the effort to debunk these misconceptions, hopefully in the near future more people can appreciate this respectable profession.


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Agreed. That along with the new merger of the MD/DO residencies is going to lead to more pod applicants. However, the real reason many don't apply to pod school, in my opinion, is because they don't even know its an option!

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The Pod profession awareness should start at the Undergrad level like it does for the MD/DO schools. I went to a public school in NY and I did not hear about Podiatry for those 4 years as a pre-med student. There were trips to MD/DO schools, people came to our college from various meds school for talks and stuff, but never podiatry. I learned about the profession a year after graduation.
 
The Pod profession awareness should start at the Undergrad level like it does for the MD/DO schools. I went to a public school in NY and I did not hear about Podiatry for those 4 years as a pre-med student. There were trips to MD/DO schools, people came to our college from various meds school for talks and stuff, but never podiatry. I learned about the profession a year after graduation.
I only learned about it from my cousin, who's in residency right now. And even when he was telling me about it, I just assumed it was a medical school specialty. It wasn't until further down the road that I learned it was a completely separate school and what the curriculum and the career of a podiatrist really entailed haha. Its still crazy to me that no one ever hears about it in undergrad, or knows about it when its such a great career.
 
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Agree x2. The more I learn about podiatry the more I'm shocked more students aren't flocking towards the profession. Sadly from what I can see trolls and wackjobs (podpost.us), general ignorance, and those pesky spam-like emails every MCAT taker gets have all contributed in giving Podiatry a negative stigma. I appreciate people on here making the effort to debunk these misconceptions, hopefully in the near future more people can appreciate this respectable profession.


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I have a feeling pod school is gonna get much more competitive since MD/DO doors are closing. Get in while the getting is good.
 
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Agreed. That along with the new merger of the MD/DO residencies is going to lead to more pod applicants. However, the real reason many don't apply to pod school, in my opinion, is because they don't even know its an option!

I also completely agree with this! Barely anyone I know has an idea of what Podiatry is. They're always really surprised and intrigued at what it has to offer. There are a few of those "ew feet" people, which infuriates me to no end because feet aren't even gross compared to other things...

Since the new DO grade replacement change is about to come in may, I foresee a massive uptick in podiatry applicants next year.

Also, pod schools are getting filled with really quality people. Everyone on my interview trail had a higher MCAT than me and was either doing a masters, research, or both. The ambassadors on my interview day also had something like 505 MCAT and 3.7 GPA. Pod school isn't for the 2.7, 490 (18) crowd anymore.

I also agree with this. Every interview I attended I was very pleasantly surprised with every single person I interviewed with. Very intelligent people and just extremely pleasant to be around.
 
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Didn't realize how many people didn't know what podiatry was until after I got accepted.

"Yall do a residency?"

"Wait so...what's school like? Is it a 2 year program?"

"What's the curriculum like? Do yall do rotations too?"

"There's wound care? Podiatrists can do that?"

Not trying to circle jerk at all. They were genuinely interested and had no idea what a podiatrist did besides the nail clipping/orthotics stuff.

And I second what @plant based said about quality applicants. Very cool people to be around, down to earth, and majority had much higher grades/mcat than I did.
 
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It can't be because "feet are gross" like some people say. Like a proctologist digging around in rectums or a gynecologist or other doctor peeping some fresh genital warts is supposed to be sexy? Nah brah, nah. Any doctor is gonna see people at their worst, so if someone can't handle feet because "they're gross", I hope that person doesn't make it into any kinda of medical school.

This is more real than you're giving it credit for, Bob. I've even heard people say they don't like to look at their own feet!

The human body, in all honesty, can get quite disgusting. Different strokes for different folks though. Some people can't stand the sight of blood.

I knew this career was the one for me when I realized I preferred feet over ears!
 
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I wasn't going to quote everyone and nit pick everything, but...

for the crowd that firmly believes the D.O. getting rid of replacement will bring traffic to Podiatry:

Are y'all really sure about this? There's no turning back once you enter the city of podiatry! You don't get a buffet of options like in M.D./D.O. I bring this up to highlight that if 5 "rejects" are turning to podiatry about 2 of those rejects had an idea of what they wanted to do as an M.D. the rest were going to explore and see how it goes. How then can said students just commit to podiatry? How likely is it?

And let's not forget, D.O. schools still needs to fill seats too.

I actually see many alternative programs springing up as an answer to the grade replacement being cut. Post-baccs, masters, linkage programs offered by schools will be on the rise.

Remember, SDN is a very horrible representation of the real world. SDN makes it sound like it's only 4.0s 526s that get accepted. In real life, plenty of people break this rule all the time! I mean I've seen carribean grads making up the bulk of residents at a particular hospital close to my house. According SDN, they shouldn't have landed residencies.

Finally, sure you might have encountered a student or two that had higher stats than you. But did you think 4.0 students didn't apply to pod school out of genuine interest? Or did you wonder why someone with good stats was interviewing for a pod school and not MD/DO?

Did people forget just a few years ago there was a thread every 3 days about the field dying off because of no residencies? Lol

We'll be just fine.

My $0.02
 
I wasn't going to quote everyone and nit pick everything, but...

for the crowd that firmly believes the D.O. getting rid of replacement will bring traffic to Podiatry:

Are y'all really sure about this? There's no turning back once you enter the city of podiatry! You don't get a buffet of options like in M.D./D.O. I bring this up to highlight that if 5 "rejects" are turning to podiatry about 2 of those rejects had an idea of what they wanted to do as an M.D. the rest were going to explore and see how it goes. How then can said students just commit to podiatry? How likely is it?

I actually see many alternative programs springing up as an answer to the grade replacement being cut. Post-baccs, masters, linkage programs offered by schools will be on the rise.

My $0.02

.
 
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for the crowd that firmly believes the D.O. getting rid of replacement will bring traffic to Podiatry:

Are y'all really sure about this? There's no turning back once you enter the city of podiatry! You don't get a buffet of options like in M.D./D.O. I bring this up to highlight that if 5 "rejects" are turning to podiatry about 2 of those rejects had an idea of what they wanted to do as an M.D. the rest were going to explore and see how it goes. How then can said students just commit to podiatry? How likely is it?
Personally, I wouldn't say it will necessarily send floods of applicants our way, but I do think that it will shunt some people in the direction of podiatry.

There are many people out there who more than anything else just want to be a "doctor". If we're talking the prototypical DO applicant here, then we can assume that their stats are already below the threshold for MD, DPT, and DDS/DMD schools even before the loss of grade replacement. After the loss of grade replacement, a number of potential applicants will no longer meet the threshold for DO school either. Out of applicants for the 2014 DO entering classes, 7,886 applicants had cGPAs between 3.20 and 3.59. With a drop in grade replacement most of these people would no longer be anywhere near the DO school matriculant cGPA average of about 3.52. Plus in that cycle there were an additional 3,896 applicants with cGPAs below 3.20. How many of these students would be pushed out of the acceptable range nobody could say, but just because of the huge difference in number of applicants to DO schools vs DPM schools, even only 1% of these students getting shunted towards podiatry would increase the podiatry applicant pool by 10-15%.

I am certain people will be affected, the only question is how many people will be and where will they go to. The only options for them would be to continue going to school (e.g., Master's program) to try to get their GPAs up but there are already a number of people in my class who have settled for whatever reason (e.g., age, impatience) and just went into podiatry instead, so clearly not everyone is willing to stick it out for another two years just to maybe get into a DO school with the potential of having to settle in the end anyway.

The only decent options left to such a person would realistically be podiatry, optometry, or pharmacy—since again MD, DPT, DDS/DMD, and now DO would all be out of their GPA range. Pharmacy is not like being a "doctor" and so I would assume people who were set on being a "doctor" would settle for podiatry or optometry before pharmacy school. Stats for optometry school and podiatry school students are very similar, though proportionally fewer people apply to optometry school. Basically anybody just shy of applying to DO school would have a fair shot at either podiatry or optometry school—slightly better shot at optometry. For those really wanting to be a "doctor" I think they'll gravitate towards podiatry. For the others I think it'll probably be split pretty well between the two since they each have their pros and cons—primarily that optometry is less school but podiatry has a larger scope of practice and higher earning potential.

If I were a prepod right now, I would just keep in mind that the possibility that there may be increased competition next cycle is there and I'd do what I could to bolster my application so as to be safe rather than potentially sorry. It is a factor that has never existed up to this point and there's no way to predict what will happen next. I wouldn't blow it out of proportion, but I also wouldn't blow it off.

At least that's my thought process.
 
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I should add that for that 2013-2014 DO application cycle that I referred to, there were about 3,500 applicants with cGPAs 3.60-4.00 who didn't enter DO schools—I assume most of them were rejected though some may have been accepted into MD or other schools. The total DO entering class is around 6,500, so DO schools could potentially trim all the fat, cutting thousands of people out of the running, and still not be hurting for quality applicants.

Also, I realize I ignored sGPAs and MCATs. That was for the sake of simplicity.
 
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I don't see MD/DO applicants saying " Oh well. Off to 7 years of Podiatry we go!" Podiatry is a huge commitment to just stumble into.
There are people in my class who did this exactly. They were in the DO applicant pool but weren't quite competitive enough and so they settled for podiatry. Dropping grade replacement is going to increase the number of people who aren't competitive enough for the DO application process and a certain percentage of those people will be just like the ones in my class and settle for podiatry. I'm certainly not saying that 100% of people who are turned away from DO will go towards DPM, but I'm saying that those people are out there and they will come. Whether that will be 10, 100, or 1000 people, who could say. If its fewer than 100 people shunted towards podiatry then it may not even be noticeable since there are year to year fluctuations in the applicant pool of nearly that much anyway. Of course it could be the opposite since there are yearly fluctuations. Perhaps even without this turn of events next year would have been a particularly large applicant pool, then people being shunted towards podiatry could make the situation much worse (or better, depending on your viewpoints). But again, who's to say.
 
@bobtheweazel I agree with you. Especially knowing that if one program, like Touro-NY received more than 10K applications for their DO programs, then from next year, some students will enter other professions you have stated, including Podiatry. Also, I did not know that DPT was that competitive :wideyed:
 
@bobtheweazel , I'm on, mobile so quoting and picking out little things is annoying so bare with me here:

When I was in college, among the premed crowd M.D. was the grand daddy of it all! Nothing was greater than it. It was only the premed kids who knew what D.O. was and even though, M.D. was what they were all after. The pharmacy crowd was people who weren't able to really handle blood, or had parents who were also pharmacist. Then was dentistry and that was the whole residency thing.

After these three things, the next three most popular medical / hospital related careers were: med tech, physician assistant, and nursing!

I NEVER and still have NEVER met any student on a college campus that was pre-pod. I'm the only one. I've met pre-vets, opto, PhD's but no pods.

This is due to (1) lack of exposure and (2) interest like the moderator pointed out a few posts above.

Sure, I'll settle with anything that'll give me the title of doctor but remember, to the general public what is a doctor? Usually doctor to the public means primary care physician or a pediatrician. Take out these two and most people can't tell you what the other specialties really do. And with podiatrists not even permitted to give flu shots, you really think we are the next best thing after the D.O. is no longer an option?

Remember when trolls used to roam around here and play the, "you're not a real doctor" card?

(Spot on with your analysis and stats though!) We certainly will get some rejects. There's even a thread on the first page here with an M.D. applicant trying to get into pod. Such cases will be common but I'm arguing there will be an alternative to come out to throw a life line to students.
 
@bobtheweazel I agree with you. Especially knowing that if one program, like Touro-NY received more than 10K applications for their DO programs, then from next year, some students will enter other professions you have stated, including Podiatry. Also, I did not know that DPT was that competitive :wideyed:

Another thing I'll give them too, the applicants are generally fitness, sports, athletic, dance enthusiasts. They're into it.
 
@bobtheweazel , I'm on, mobile so quoting and picking out little things is annoying so bare with me here:

When I was in college, among the premed crowd M.D. was the grand daddy of it all! Nothing was greater than it. It was only the premed kids who knew what D.O. was and even though, M.D. was what they were all after. The pharmacy crowd was people who weren't able to really handle blood, or had parents who were also pharmacist. Then was dentistry and that was the whole residency thing.

After these three things, the next three most popular medical / hospital related careers were: med tech, physician assistant, and nursing!

I NEVER and still have NEVER met any student on a college campus that was pre-pod. I'm the only one. I've met pre-vets, opto, PhD's but no pods.

This is due to (1) lack of exposure and (2) interest like the moderator pointed out a few posts above.

Sure, I'll settle with anything that'll give me the title of doctor but remember, to the general public what is a doctor? Usually doctor to the public means primary care physician or a pediatrician. Take out these two and most people can't tell you what the other specialties really do. And with podiatrists not even permitted to give flu shots, you really think we are the next best thing after the D.O. is no longer an option?

Remember when trolls used to roam around here and play the, "you're not a real doctor" card?

(Spot on with your analysis and stats though!) We certainly will get some rejects. There's even a thread on the first page here with an M.D. applicant trying to get into pod. Such cases will be common but I'm arguing there will be an alternative to come out to throw a life line to students.

I think that while people don't have much of an idea about podiatry in undergrad, once they're out of other options it doesn't take but a few minutes on the internet to find podiatry. And it really is the next closest thing to being an MD/DO. Our curriculum has more overlap with MDs/DOs than any other health profession. We rotate with MDs/DOs in residency. We can independently prescribe and perform surgeries. Degrees aside, podiatrists are not only real doctors but they are physicians. There are podiatrists who are chief of medicine at some hospitals. The California Orthopedic Association and California Medical Association are reviewing DPM curricula and residency training with the California Podiatric Medical Association with the goal of submitting joint legislation within the next couple of years to give podiatrists in California the same unlimited medical license as MDs and DOs. Podiatry is absolutely the next best thing to MD/DO school. I would even argue better in some regards (lower tuition, 3 year surgical residency whereas MD/DO surgical residencies are at least 5, higher residency placement rate).

If people go off of what they already know, they probably won't choose podiatry. If people take their time to do their research, I think many of them will absolutely choose podiatry

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Absolutely.

You're posting from the view of someone who is being open-minded and will look into both sides of the coin.

I was addressing your point about students who just wants to be a doctor to be a doctor. Those people usually have a certain perception of what a doctor does. And that perception isn't a practitioner that only operates on the foot and ankle and can't give shots for flu, etc.

Catch my drift?
 
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Personally, I wouldn't say it will necessarily send floods of applicants our way, but I do think that it will shunt some people in the direction of podiatry.

There are many people out there who more than anything else just want to be a "doctor". If we're talking the prototypical DO applicant here, then we can assume that their stats are already below the threshold for MD, DPT, and DDS/DMD schools even before the loss of grade replacement. After the loss of grade replacement, a number of potential applicants will no longer meet the threshold for DO school either. Out of applicants for the 2014 DO entering classes, 7,886 applicants had cGPAs between 3.20 and 3.59. With a drop in grade replacement most of these people would no longer be anywhere near the DO school matriculant cGPA average of about 3.52. Plus in that cycle there were an additional 3,896 applicants with cGPAs below 3.20. How many of these students would be pushed out of the acceptable range nobody could say, but just because of the huge difference in number of applicants to DO schools vs DPM schools, even only 1% of these students getting shunted towards podiatry would increase the podiatry applicant pool by 10-15%.

I am certain people will be affected, the only question is how many people will be and where will they go to. The only options for them would be to continue going to school (e.g., Master's program) to try to get their GPAs up but there are already a number of people in my class who have settled for whatever reason (e.g., age, impatience) and just went into podiatry instead, so clearly not everyone is willing to stick it out for another two years just to maybe get into a DO school with the potential of having to settle in the end anyway.

The only decent options left to such a person would realistically be podiatry, optometry, or pharmacy—since again MD, DPT, DDS/DMD, and now DO would all be out of their GPA range. Pharmacy is not like being a "doctor" and so I would assume people who were set on being a "doctor" would settle for podiatry or optometry before pharmacy school. Stats for optometry school and podiatry school students are very similar, though proportionally fewer people apply to optometry school. Basically anybody just shy of applying to DO school would have a fair shot at either podiatry or optometry school—slightly better shot at optometry. For those really wanting to be a "doctor" I think they'll gravitate towards podiatry. For the others I think it'll probably be split pretty well between the two since they each have their pros and cons—primarily that optometry is less school but podiatry has a larger scope of practice and higher earning potential.

If I were a prepod right now, I would just keep in mind that the possibility that there may be increased competition next cycle is there and I'd do what I could to bolster my application so as to be safe rather than potentially sorry. It is a factor that has never existed up to this point and there's no way to predict what will happen next. I wouldn't blow it out of proportion, but I also wouldn't blow it off.

At least that's my thought process.

You are hitting the nail on the head.

There are plenty of 3.1-3.3 GPA biology majors that have no job prospects out in the big bad world and took the MCAT and couldn't break the 500 threshold who would gladly go podiatry if it means they get to call themselves doctors and wear the white lab coat with their name on it.

There is no debate, Podiatrists are doctors. They are surgeons. However, in the eyes of the law, podiatrists are not physicians, yet. Medicare still does not recognize DPMs as physicians, although that might change within the next ten years, and thats where I see the next big push happening. Especially with schools like DMU continuing to offer pods classes with the DO class and training them first and foremost as a doctor, and then as a podiatrist.

The difference btw Optometry and Podiatry is that Pod schools were smart to fight tooth and nail for surgical rights, and continuing to fight to keep those rights. This gives pods a super edge, as PAs, Nurse practitioners might be able to one day remove warts or corns, but they will never be able to do a reconstructive ankle surgery. This gives pods a huge advantage, and unlike family med docs, we are fighting over cases from Ortho instead of fighting over the scraps of follow up cases with a bunch of midlevel providers.

Ladies and gents, pod school numbers are gonna increase. No, the jump won't be from 3.2 to 3.5 and from 495 to 502 next year, but I can see that happening within the next ten. Get in while the getting is good.
 
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Absolutely.

You're posting from the view of someone who is being open-minded and will look into both sides of the coin.

I was addressing your point about students who just wants to be a doctor to be a doctor. Those people usually have a certain perception of what a doctor does. And that perception isn't a practitioner that only operates on the foot and ankle and can't give shots for flu, etc.

Catch my drift?
I can see your point for sure. I think one major thing that could potentially bring aspiring DOs to podiatry is that they will, usually, have already taken the mcat and so they would simply apply to podiatry without any major changes. If i were pre DO and shadowed, got good grades, volunteered, took the MCAT and didnt do so well on it, then i imagine id start wondering what next. Im sure Id look at PA and while some elect that route, it has always been my dream to be a doctor. (Not to mention the fact that PA schools are verrrry competitive now and require a lot more HCE). I am sure i would consider dental or other doctoral fields, but would realize id have to study for another beast of a test. I imagine that when i found out podiatry existed and that its the same pre reqs, an MCAT is required, and basically very similar requirements then i would jump at it. In fact, this may going on as we speak. Right now, some poor pre DO that retook a bunch of classes may be researching potential career paths after finding out theyre doin away with grade replacement haha. Anyway, my point is I think podiatry will continue to draw more and more pre DOs because 1. they will still be doctors and 2. that it is essentially the exact same requirements to go to DO schools, admission test and all.
 
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