FYI - Rankings of Osteopathic Schools

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See ChocolateBear for a more exact list.
 
I'd be careful how much stock you put in this. There have been a few of these tables floating around, and many of them are out of date and inaccurate. This one doesn't seem quite as bad, but still, some of the numbers don't match the scores reported by the schools themselves on their respective websites. Your best bet for this sort of info is the admissions offices for the various schools.
 
Why would you rank a program by the MCAT score of their classes??? That doesn't make much sense to me, and that list didn't work.
 
That is a very sorry excuse for a ranking. :nono:
 
DermpathMD said:
Are you saying that UNECOM reported fraudulent data regarding their MCAT scores to the AACOM?
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She's saying its out of date, most likely. But I agree, it is not a good way to rank a school because you're ranking the class and not the school specifically on more important factors than "how smart" its students are.
 
Yeah I thought LECOM-E was more like a 25-26, at least thats what they told us.

Every year its just gonna keep getting harder.
 
All schools, MD and DO, skew their data to their benefit; thus ranking by GPA and MCAT is probably a big waste of time.

Furthermore, you probably should read the report by the AAMC how MCAT scores have zero correlation on how medical students do. I have a friend, who had a 22 MCAT and is in the top 10 (class rank) at his school (although I am sure one could say that they have a friend who had a 22 and is in the bottom half). Needless to say, no matter where you go, if you work hard you'll do well in class and on the boards.
 
MossPoh said:
I've been looking at this list for almost 4 years now and I don't think the numbers have changed yet.
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technically only three years. they are from 2006 entering classes. Very out of date. This is just a collection of MCAT scores this is not a ranking
 
Perhaps I should have been more clear. "The data for UNECOM as presented is not an accurate representation for the current date." It is several years old at least.

And I never once mentioned anything about AACOM - don't know where that came in. 😕 But I suppose you can twist data (and words) any way you want. Remember: there are three kinds of lies: lies, d*mn lies, and statistics.
 
DermpathMD said:
Semicolon,
Why don't you contact Dr. Chamberlain at KCOM and tell him that you deem these rankings which he has posted to be a "sorry excuse"?
Here is the link to his webpage: http://www.kcom.edu/faculty/chamberlain/
See Osteopathic School Ranking on the webpage.
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I already knew who published this ranking, thanks. So just because a physician created it, it somehow lends credibility to an arbitrary ranking system? As many have pointed out already, not only is this information old, but it's also an inaccurate representation of the school's student body and their performance during medical school.
 
ChiDO said:
All schools, MD and DO, skew their data to their benefit; thus ranking by GPA and MCAT is probably a big waste of time.
Because you say so this must be true!

Furthermore, you probably should read the report by the AAMC how MCAT scores have zero correlation on how medical students do. I have a friend, who had a 22 MCAT and is in the top 10 (class rank) at his school (although I am sure one could say that they have a friend who had a 22 and is in the bottom half). Needless to say, no matter where you go, if you work hard you'll do well in class and on the boards.
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You are incorrect regarding the "zero correlation" see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17198300 The predictive validity is small to medium. Furthermore if the test really had zero correlation then it would make no sense at all to administer the test in the first place.
 
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Semicolon said:
I already knew who published this ranking, thanks. So just because a physician created it, it somehow lends credibility to an arbitrary ranking system? As many have pointed out already, not only is this information old, but it's also an inaccurate representation of the school's student body and their performance during medical school.
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The data is from 2006. What newer data do you have? How is the ranking arbitrary? It is based on the MCAT scores of accepted applicants. This is not arbitrary.
 
ShyRem said:
Perhaps I should have been more clear. "The data for UNECOM as presented is not an accurate representation for the current date." It is several years old at least.

And I never once mentioned anything about AACOM - don't know where that came in. 😕 But I suppose you can twist data (and words) any way you want. Remember: there are three kinds of lies: lies, d*mn lies, and statistics.
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Did you look at Dr. Chamberlain's references? I would not consider data from 2006 to be old. What newer data do you have?
 
DermpathMD said:
You are incorrect regarding the "zero correlation" see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17198300 The predictive validity is small to medium. Furthermore if the test really had zero correlation then it would make no sense at all to administer the test in the first place.
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Why do you have to be so defensive man? I think that the common consensus here is that the MCAT scores of the students is a less than ideal way to judge a medical school... That's really all there is to it.
 
StrivingSurge13 said:
Why do you have to be so defensive man? I think that the common consensus here is that the MCAT scores of the students is a less than ideal way to judge a medical school... That's really all there is to it.
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And that's that.
 
DermpathMD said:
You are incorrect regarding the "zero correlation" see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17198300 The predictive validity is small to medium. Furthermore if the test really had zero correlation then it would make no sense at all to administer the test in the first place.
Click to expand...

"Small to medium" that's a great way to describe the predictive validity. Anyways, as the above poster mentioned, MCAT doesn't matter about how good students are. You'll find out as soon as you enter school no one gives two ****s what your GPA was, MCAT score, or what school you came from. If you work hard and are of decent intelligence, you'll do fine in med school, make friends, and become a doctor.
 
The thing about osteopathic schools you have to consider is the high number of non-trads. A 30-year old guy who has a family and a full-time job is not going to be able to study for the MCAT the same way that some college kid who is a full-time student did. That is why you have to look at each applicant individually, rather than just at the numbers. And this is coming from someone who did pretty well on the MCAT, by anyone's standards (as a non-traditional applicant).

I also had friends when I was doing my pre-med stuff who are at places like UT-Southwestern and Baylor College of Medicine, who I am every bit their equal. And so are a lot of my classmates (I am not the top guy in my class, but I do expect to be in the top quarter when its all said and done).

Osteopathic schools are not in the business of taking inferior students. But they do get a lot of people who might have slipped through the cracks at allopathic schools, because of numbers. But it all evens out on rotations. The students who will be good docs stand out, and the bad ones fall behind.

I have really no idea how important the MCAT really is, but I am doing well in med school, and I wouldn't remember how to do an organic chemistry problem if my life depended on it.

On the other hand, I did pretty well on my MCAT, so if you could point me to where I sign up for my "automatic good USMLE score", I'll gladly take it.
 
JonnyG said:
technically only three years. they are from 2006 entering classes. Very out of date. This is just a collection of MCAT scores this is not a ranking
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Yes, but I think they had one before that. They just changed the year of the update. The numbers didn't change much from the other one.
 
Funny thing about the MCAT is that it is based a lot on reading comprehension. This first year of med school, on the other hand, has required little more than rote memorization (like TONS of memorization).

Since I have yet to take the USMLE I don't know whether my MCAT skilz will help me with that. One can only hope.
 
Contrary to popular belief, MCAT does have some relevance in predicting medical school performance. Obviously, humans are not predictable and rigors of medical education fundamentally changes the student so some of these data isn't completely reliable. However, it does provide a good generalization of how students might perform.

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/admissionsadvisors/research/bibliography/start.htm
http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...=2005&issue=10000&article=00010&type=abstract

But I agree that these scores are outdated and therefore not relevant to prospective applicants. The numbers will keep going up simply because there will be more and more people applying to DO schools which will enable DO schools to pick from a larger group of competitive applicants.
 
DermpathMD said:
Did you look at Dr. Chamberlain's references? I would not consider data from 2006 to be old. What newer data do you have?
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In the publishing world, 2006 is VERY old. Also...I did just a little above average on the MCAT. Why? Am I a bad test taker? No. Am I dumb? No. How about I was writing a thesis, had one toddler and added a second baby to my family, was working, and studying for the MCAT. Oh, I should add that it had been six years since I took physics, and four since general chem. I didn't take O-chem until after the MCAT. I did manage to publish five papers and get a 4.0 in my last 97 credit hours of class. This is why it's dangerous to equate low (or high) MCAT to bad (or good) student.

Allopathic schools wouldn't touch me because of my MCAT, but there're no hard feelings here, I'd rather go where I'm more than my numbers. Lastly...funny story, I met with the director of the MD/PhD program at my state school, she said, "We miss out on so many qualified, capable students, because our dumb admissions committee is so rigid about MCAT scores."
 
DermpathMD said:
Are you saying that UNECOM reported fraudulent data regarding their MCAT scores to the AACOM?
Click to expand...

Lord, the list is based on data from 2006 entering class. So it is a few years old and that is all she is saying. I know for a fact that the class of 2012 at DMU had a lower MCAT than what is reported there. 2006 would be when my class entered and that data makes sense for that year. If you want something timely however I would look elsewhere.
 
Jamers said:
Lord, the list is based on data from 2006 entering class
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Echoing all replies thus far, don't even bother ranking schools based on MCAT scores and/or GPA. And this data is very old and difficult to rank. Did all schools report that specific year? What percentage of students took that specific year's MCAT scores? Was it a combined score for each student, a composite, or the highest individual score?

Some schools may be "better" than others, but you will find out when you are interviewing and researching rotations/residency programs that schools are better or worse for *you*. You can't pull that off a list.
 
engineeredout said:
Yeah I thought LECOM-E was more like a 25-26, at least thats what they told us.

Every year its just gonna keep getting harder.
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You're right. According to the 2009 Princeton Review "Best 168 Medical Schools" Book, the average MCAT for LECOM-E is 26.2 O and the average GPA is 3.4.

🙂
 
Jamers said:
....Lord, the list is based on data from 2006 entering class. So it is a few years old and that is all she is saying....
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That's not quite true. The overall averages at the bottom of the chart were based on the 2006 entering class, taken from data in the College Information Book that AACOM produces.

HOWEVER, the data for individual schools was based on information that Princeton Review had collected from individual schools over time. Some of the data available when this was first published were as old as 2001 or 2002. A good bit of it has been more recently updated, though.

There has been a fairly good increase in student GPA's and MCAT's in osteoptahic schools since that time. This list is far, far from inaccurate. Then again, the typical textbook printed today is seven years behind by the time it is published.
 
Anyone else here think that a guy with a name like "DermapathMD" might have an axe to grind with DO schools?
 
engineeredout said:
Anyone else here think that a guy with a name like "DermapathMD" might have an axe to grind with DO schools?
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lol no... I think it's actually the automatic assumptions like that which add to the DO vs. MD bad blood.

Although DermapathMD kind of came off as really defensive and probably rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in this thread, he never once put down the osteopathic profession.
 
What DO vs. MD bad blood? Do you mean among pre-meds on the internet? If so, who gives a **** about pre-meds on the internet?
 
StrivingSurge13 said:
lol no... I think it's actually the automatic assumptions like that which add to the DO vs. MD bad blood.

Although DermapathMD kind of came off as really defensive and probably rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in this thread, he never once put down the osteopathic profession.
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just a little...
 
TexasTriathlete said:
What DO vs. MD bad blood? Do you mean among pre-meds on the internet? If so, who gives a **** about pre-meds on the internet?
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yes that is exactly what I meant... pre-meds who perceive an "MD" in a person's screen name as a cause for them to have an "axe to grind against DO schools." And as to who gives a **** about pre-meds, I think we all should. Most of us are pre-meds at the moment, and although the "bad blood" doesn't exist so much at the professional level it shouldn't exist here either... so ya I give a ****, and I think we all should as well.

Note to Engineeredout: I don't want you to take offense, I realize that your comment was more of a joke and not your belief or anything like that... but statements like this are made far too much, and I was just making an observation.
 
engineeredout said:
Anyone else here think that a guy with a name like "DermapathMD" might have an axe to grind with DO schools?
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I had the same thought as well after I read his post.
 
StrivingSurge13 said:
Note to Engineeredout: I don't want you to take offense, I realize that your comment was more of a joke and not your belief or anything like that... but statements like this are made far too much, and I was just making an observation.
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My comment came about due to the dude's pissy attitude as well as his apparent aspiration to become a dermatologist, which tends to be the hot button issue for premeds who are terrified that if they become a DO, they won't match into dermatology and their lives are over. Statements like that are made far too much, and I was just making an observation.
 
engineeredout said:
My comment came about due to the dude's pissy attitude as well as his apparent aspiration to become a dermatologist, which tends to be the hot button issue for premeds who are terrified that if they become a DO, they won't match into dermatology and their lives are over. Statements like that are made far too much, and I was just making an observation.
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First of all, I 100% agree with the guy's defensive attitude (and said it in my first post in this thread)... I also agree that his name seems to point to an aspiration to become a dermatologist...

BUT it should be noted that he never once said anything against osteopathy and never once made the statement about him thinking his life would be over if he didn't match dermatology... You came to that conclusion all on your own based on his name, that's needless passing of judgement that only adds fuel to the fire is all I'm saying...
 
Where does that guy get off writing in red, anyway?
I mean, who does he think he is?
peter.jpg
 
this thread pretty much became the most pointless on this site. does it really freaking matter what the scores look like? i could care less what my classmates scored on the mcat. i mean who really cares in the end.
 
MrBeauregard said:
this thread pretty much became the most pointless on this site. does it really freaking matter what the scores look like? i could care less what my classmates scored on the mcat. i mean who really cares in the end.
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👍
 
MrBeauregard said:
this thread pretty much became the most pointless on this site. does it really freaking matter what the scores look like? i could care less what my classmates scored on the mcat. i mean who really cares in the end.
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The adcoms do.
 
any one else think it is odd that AT still puts out the "report" and ranks themselves 8??
 
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