G. Surg match numbers?

[Joel Fleischman]

So how intense (competitive) was the G. Surg match this year?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Amy]

There were only 6 categorical spots available in the scramble this year, and from what I hear, they were all filled immediately (within about 15 minutes).

Look here for additional info.

 

[pamchenko]

in my opinion pretty brutal...for my school unless u applied for plastics, the straight general surgery people did poor...most of us did NOT get our top 3 choices. if u look at the match nationally, only 6 categorical spots did not match...it looks as if general surgery is getting more competitive again i personally got my 6th choice

 

[Joel Fleischman]

Thanks for the link....
UGH... maybe a little too informative.
I noticed it was a pretty rough match at my school too.
Off to take a Nexium.

 

[GBMKIller]

Thanks for the link....
UGH... maybe a little too informative.
I noticed it was a pretty rough match at my school too.
Off to take a Nexium.

Good link. What are the average Step I and GPA's?

Also anyone know of the chances at sucessful matching with the following

Step I: 227
Pre-Clinical grades- straight B's (2nd year) and all C's first year
Clinical grades: all A's
overall GPA: 3.1
did masters in molec. biology while in med school 1 pub 1 pending

Please be honest.

 

[Pilot Doc]

Please be honest.

Sheesh - with those numbers, don't count on surgery - maybe family practice. How about phlebotomy, I think that's a good option with those stats.


Seriously - you'll match fine. Look at the NRMP data - 20% of surgery categorical spots went to non-US grads. Based on your clinical grades, you're presumably personable and hard working. That alone will get you a spot somewhere. Your board scores are fine - 50th percentile or so - and nobody cares much about preclinical grades.

The key to successful matching - for anyone - is to apply to a broad range of programs and rank EVERY program which you find more attractive than what will likely be an unsuccessful scramble.

 

[GBMKIller]

Thanks Pilot Doc. Just checking for opinions, Its easy to get a little insecure when approaching the application process.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

Seriously - you'll match fine. Look at the NRMP data - 20% of surgery categorical spots went to non-US grads.

That is not accurate. Roughly 850/1050 first year categorical residency slots went to US seniors. The rest of those slots went to all other applicants... that includes reapplicants who were US seniors last year but are this year US MDs. There are other people who are switching from other programs to surgery, etc... The number of non-US seniors/grads matching in surgery is likely to be only a small fraction of the non-US senior cohort.

 

[SocialistMD]

That is not accurate. Roughly 850/1050 first year categorical residency slots went to US seniors. The rest of those slots went to all other applicants... that includes reapplicants who were US seniors last year but are this year US MDs. There are other people who are switching from other programs to surgery, etc... The number of non-US seniors/grads matching in surgery is likely to be only a small fraction of the non-US senior cohort.

I think that was kind of his point. The OP presumably goes to a US medical school and, based on his application and the fact that 20% of the spots went to non-first time US applicants or foreign med graduates, he should have no problem matching.

Gotta watch out for my senior residents...

 

[Celiac Plexus]

I think that was kind of his point. The OP presumably goes to a US medical school and, based on his application and the fact that 20% of the spots went to non-first time US applicants or foreign med graduates, he should have no problem matching.

Gotta watch out for my senior residents...

well my point was... considering that most of the competitive specialties fill with 80-85% us seniors... i don't think that this is a very good stat to support the contention that a us senior has a good shot at entering a competitive specialty.

better stats would be the total number of US seniors applying for those 80-85% of available slots (assuming the op is a us senior), and the stats of the average us senior matchee. while we can find out the former, the latter is probably unattainable.

judging by the op's numbers, and my limited participation in my own program's match process, i would say that he has a solid chance to match somehwhere if s/he applies to a broad spectrum of programs and ranks 10 or more programs.

 

[Pilot Doc]

That is not accurate. Roughly 850/1050 first year categorical residency slots went to US seniors.

Good catch - significant typo on my part.

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
While General Surgery was fairly competitive this year, you can greatly increase your chances of matching by applying to enough programs. If you are a US grad and you beat the mean on USMLE Step I, you stand a pretty good chance of getting into a quality program somewhere. Do apply to a variety of programs and one or two of your dream shots. Just make sure that you have enough to give you 15 to 20 interviews across the board. Most U.S. grads who didn't match didn't have enough programs at various levels.

If you have your heart set on a very competitive program, do an audition rotation early in the game and do very well. You also need to make contact with the program director and get an honest evaluation of your chances of being there. For example, don't apply to Duke with less than stellar numbers meaning that you are in the top 10% of your class, honored in your General Surgery rotation and above 230s on USMLE Step I. You are not likely to make it into this program unless you are related to the PD or Chairman of Surgery.
Good luck
njbmd

 

[5ur63ry]

Hi there,
If you are a US grad and you beat the mean on USMLE Step I, you stand a pretty good chance of getting into a quality program somewhere.
njbmd

Since most advice givers tend to be evasive when asked what Step I score an applicant needs to be competitive at "quality" programs, I'm going to give an actualy number. This analysis is by no means definititve. It is just my view of the current state of affairs of the GS applicaiton cycle. This is based on my experience as an applicant a couple of years ago, and on observations made during the last couple of interview cycles.

<200 = no realistic chance

200-210 = you will have difficulty matching. You will be screened out by many programs.

210-220 = your step I score is a neutral part of your app... hopefully you have other areas of your app that shine. you will get screened out by some programs... I would think that with a score in this range, an outstanding performance on an away rotation, and strong support from well-known surgeons, would be very helpful.

220-230 = your step I score is a positive aspect of your application. You will make it past most screens except for perhaps the most competitive programs.

230+ = your step I score is a positive aspect of your application. you will not be screened by anyone, and interviewers will think that you are smarter than the average bear before they even meet you.

____

OK, take a deep breath before you flame me for posting these ranges. Like I said, they are based on my experience, and are just my suggested guidelines. Applicants seek these kind of hard number guidelines, so I am giving some.

Know also that your step I score isn't only considered for the interview decision. At rank meetings, your score will come up again, and may very well affect your final ranking. One of my friends is at an elite east coast program, and they use step I score to make the initial order of the rank list. We do not do that at my program at all, but at the rank meeting the step I score/AOA status/class rank is flashed up for everyone to see...

A note about AOA status. Unfortunately there are a number of attendings that care strongly about AOA status. In a rank meeting that I sat in on, I watched silently as a couple of attendings asked of every applicant we discussed, "Is h/she AOA?". I mean, like at that point who gives a $h1t? But I watched people drop or rise on the list because some attendings highly value AOA status. I am not a member of AOA, so perhaps this is why I do not understand the huge importance of it. But it came up for every applicant that we seriously considered.

 

[pamchenko]

i'll be very cool here...
my step 1 = 211
class rank = bottom 15% of class
school = SUNY school (state school in NY)
letters of rec/away rotations = one from small community program in NYC, one from ivy league guy
but kind in mind i'm very good looking...i think that's an important part of this application.

applied to 40 programs...interviewed at 20
notable interviews or rejections...
interviewed at community programs in manhattan. both SUNY stony brook and downstate offered me interviews. got interviews to all umdnjs. academic programs? got interviewed from nymc, vcu (mcv), unc chapel hill, metropolitan hospital group of chicago, also got interview invite to baystate, mcp hanneman, temple

notable rejections - beth israel and st lukes roosevelt both in new york, einstein, sinai, nyu, case western, cleveland clinic, uic, maine medical center, brown, pitt, thomas jeff, boston u, mayo florida, gwu, georgetown, rochester and uva.

hope you appreciate this humbling post.

 

[Kim B]

So you matched at your 6th out of 20th spot. Humbling but still not too bad! I find this post very encouraging.

 

[imtiaz]

Since most advice givers tend to be evasive when asked what Step I score an applicant needs to be competitive at "quality" programs, I'm going to give an actualy number. This analysis is by no means definititve. It is just my view of the current state of affairs of the GS applicaiton cycle. This is based on my experience as an applicant a couple of years ago, and on observations made during the last couple of interview cycles.

<200 = no realistic chance

200-210 = you will have difficulty matching. You will be screened out by many programs.

210-220 = your step I score is a neutral part of your app... hopefully you have other areas of your app that shine. you will get screened out by some programs... I would think that with a score in this range, an outstanding performance on an away rotation, and strong support from well-known surgeons, would be very helpful.

220-230 = your step I score is a positive aspect of your application. You will make it past most screens except for perhaps the most competitive programs.

230+ = your step I score is a positive aspect of your application. you will not be screened by anyone, and interviewers will think that you are smarter than the average bear before they even meet you.

____

OK, take a deep breath before you flame me for posting these ranges. Like I said, they are based on my experience, and are just my suggested guidelines. Applicants seek these kind of hard number guidelines, so I am giving some.

Know also that your step I score isn't only considered for the interview decision. At rank meetings, your score will come up again, and may very well affect your final ranking. One of my friends is at an elite east coast program, and they use step I score to make the initial order of the rank list. We do not do that at my program at all, but at the rank meeting the step I score/AOA status/class rank is flashed up for everyone to see...

A note about AOA status. Unfortunately there are a number of attendings that care strongly about AOA status. In a rank meeting that I sat in on, I watched silently as a couple of attendings asked of every applicant we discussed, "Is h/she AOA?". I mean, like at that point who gives a $h1t? But I watched people drop or rise on the list because some attendings highly value AOA status. I am not a member of AOA, so perhaps this is why I do not understand the huge importance of it. But it came up for every applicant that we seriously considered.

does doing better on step2 mean anything or is it all step1?

 

[blue2000]

does doing better on step2 mean anything or is it all step1?

It does, but within limits. If you bomb Step I, but improve to the mean on Step II, that doesn't mean as much as if you hit the mean on Step I and ace Step II.

I guess the other thing I would add is that board scores are only one (and quite an important) component of your application. If the rest of your profile (clinical grades specifically) are MUCH better than your step score would predict, you may get bumped up. OTOH, your step score may not prevent you from getting interviews, but may affect your status on a program's rank list. As people keep saying, apply and interview at a broad range of programs.

 

[shahkg]

Here's some more info:

SGU grad (Caribbean school)
Top 40% of my class, GPA of 3.45
Did a concurrent MPH
Step 1 and 2: 205

Applied to 48 (!!) programs, interviewed at 7, didn't match...doing a Prelim.

Only 4 people from my school who applied for surgery matched; they don't like no foreign grads.

Good luck.

 

[jdubya]

here's valid info regarding gen surg and other specialties. in the upper left corner of the page scroll down and find the appropriate specialty, then check out the odds. Looks like 2004 held GS in line with rads, ortho, ophtho and some other notables. Still behind derm and plastics. The difficulty in gen surg seems less in getting a spot and more in getting a good, university spot without connections.

 

[jdubya]

whoops, forgot to add the link.
medicine.wustl.edu/~residenc/outside/spec/

 

[jmattwilson]

Here are my stats

Step 1 220
Step 2 216
Top 25 school
Preclinical: all A's except one B+ in phsyc
Clinical: Honor surgery and Peds others high pass (FP pass man I was a lazy SOB on that rotation)
Upper Third class ranking
Non AoA

I applied to 25 programs denied interviews at 2 never heard from another. I applied to some pretty competitive programs and some strong community programs. I recieved very encouraging feedback, ie post interview calls, emails, etc from some of the big names. I ultimately decided to rank the community program I will be attending first. Why? I simply loved the place and that matters alot when picking a program. It doesnt matter how a place seems on paper you have to fit where you go or else you and the program will be unhappy. I also agree with several of the above posters that any applicant from the US with respectable (not flawless) credentials should match they just have to realize thier limitations and rank enough programs. I think the numbers breakdown given by Imtiaz above is very accurate but once again not an absolute. Good luck class of 2006 you will be starting the trek very soon.