Gardner's Thoughts on the Job Market

[deleted1074676]

Gardner last edited this post in 2014.

The topic of the pathology job market seems to have been discussed for as long as there have been pathologists (ok maybe not THAT long). Much of the debate over whether or not there are enough jobs centers on anecdotes, and most of these seem to originate from a friend of a friend of an anonymous poster on an online pathology discussion board (studentdoctor.net being the most notorious in my opinion). There have been some studies that show a slight decrease in job availability in the last couple of years (2012-2014). CAP did market research and suggests that there will soon be a shortage of pathologists and demand will go up (but like all market projections, that should be taken with a healthy grain of salt). From my personal experiences with job hunting in 2011-2012, I found plenty of interested groups and interviews. I can also count on one hand the number of unemployed pathologists I have EVER met (and for my age, I know quite a few pathologists). I personally feel that the job market issue is more of a quality issue. That is, pathologists may mostly be able to find a job, but it may not be the job they want, or in the city they want, or for the salary they want. This suboptimal job quality may have its roots in oversupply of pathologists, but I think the full issue is more complex than just that.

My view is that even if the overall trend in jobs is depressing, INDIVIDUALS can do things to rise above the majority of their colleagues and stand out.

How to Find a Pathology Job

This page represents the personal thoughts, opinions, and musings of Jerad M Gardner, MD regarding the pathology job market and how to find a pathology job. It is based on my personal experiences and things I have learned from others. It is by no means official or exhaustive, nor is it...

pathinfo.fandom.com

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[tiredguy]

 

[KeratinPearls]

Old news 6 years ago...Not sure how helpful this is. It’ll just stir up the same old arguments.

 

[deleted1074676]

This is the first and only time that I have heard a prominent CAP member describe path jobs as "suboptimal".

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Who is Gardner?

 

[deleted1074676]

Who is Gardner?

The #1 Pathologist

The Power List 2019

We honor 100 of the leading innovators in pathology and laboratory medicine by celebrating their success at the cutting edge of the field.

thepathologist.com

 

[Vicinal]

This is embarrassing.

 

[deleted314957]

Ok. Jerad Gardner is a pathologist who used to post here frequently while a trainee. He is EXTREMELY academically oriented and trained in derm path as well as soft tissue under Sharon Weiss. He is a very bright guy from what I gather. Also very involved in path wiki stuff and the CAP even as a resident. Seems to be a nice guy but is without a doubt a big time academic gunner on the way to tenured professorship. In my opinion, he knows less about PP of pathology and the non-academic job world than my wife.
I mean absolutely NO offense to this gentleman.

 

[LADoc00]

The #1 Pathologist

The Power List 2019

We honor 100 of the leading innovators in pathology and laboratory medicine by celebrating their success at the cutting edge of the field.

thepathologist.com

OMG is this a joke? Im laughing my azz off right now.

bwhahahahahaha THE PATHOLOGIST magazine?! This is HILARIOUS. Check the home page, sister publication: THE CANNABIS SCIENTIST.

Yah this looks legit, glad someone brought this up.
We now have something to aspire to and if we dont make the top 10 list here, there is still a chance in their new sister publication; THE METH COOKER SCIENTIST.

 

[LADoc00]

This is embarrassing.

Schiff you in the top 10 list here or in the Cannabis Scientist??

Im serious, screw High Times, I want to be featured in the Cannabis Scientist or the Meth Cooker Scientist or Clandestine Drug Lab Weekly or any number of reputable industry publications related to The Pathologist....this is awesome!

Is there is any cross over people are seeing from The Asperger's Patient and The Pathologist published top 10 lists?? Ive spotted 3 names at a quick glance.

In conclusion: this thread has effectively defeated ALL arguments the job market is soft in Pathology. The evidence is clear. Some random dude on the most sketchy bizarre website I have ever seen (qualification: most sketchy without nude selfies) has said the water is fine, come on in.

 

[Thr0mbus]

We all knew Gardner was a academic in the making with his sooth saying about the job market!! Now he is profiting emotionally and financially with his own minion (resident) pathologists!!!

FLEE PATHOLOGY NOW!

Gardner is #1!! (Haven’t heard of 95% of these people on the list). I wonder how much you have to pay to get your name ranked! Great job Gardner!!!

 

[LADoc00]

We all knew Gardner was a academic in the making with his sooth saying about the job market!! Now he is profiting emotionally and financially with his own minion (resident) pathologists!!!

FLEE PATHOLOGY NOW!

Gardner is #1!! (Haven’t heard of 95% of these people on the list). I wonder how much you have to pay to get your name ranked! Great job Gardner!!!

You have to pledge money to their new e-magazine kickstarter: The Meth Scientist. Trust me, Im on pins and needles for issue #1, it has a special print foil cover of Breaking Bad star Bryan Cranston.

Is Gardner still on this website posting?? Dude score us some of the "industry gummies" from your sister publication. Or better yet co-marketing for an SDN Pathology forum gummy product: the El Diablo Gummy Bear.

Jared has like 20000 twitter followers, I assume all without the need to post revealing pics in his banana hammock? Impressive.

Jared what happened to Bruce Smoller? He still alive and kicking at Arkansas?

this is awesome, best thread evah!

For all the crap California fails to deliver on nowadays, at least I can read my new issue of The Cannabis Scientist proudly sitting in the patio seating at Starbucks.

 

[deleted1074676]

I thought Gardner's 2014 post about jobs was good because it at least acknowledged that there was a problem. However, I don't think he would give the same answer today - I think he would put more of a positive spin on things to align himself with CAP.

 

[DoctorCancer]

The #1 Pathologist

The Power List 2019

We honor 100 of the leading innovators in pathology and laboratory medicine by celebrating their success at the cutting edge of the field.

thepathologist.com

I fell out of my chair! Who is this guy?

 

[Vicinal]

Gardner is a great teacher and an awesome guy. No disparagement meant to him and his academic teaching work. It is just the concept of the list that is utterly ridiculous. And no LADOC I try very hard to stay off an many lists as possible as I eventually “do not go gentle into that good night”

 

[Vicinal]

You have to pledge money to their new e-magazine kickstarter: The Meth Scientist. Trust me, Im on pins and needles for issue #1, it has a special print foil cover of Breaking Bad star Bryan Cranston.

Is Gardner still on this website posting?? Dude score us some of the "industry gummies" from your sister publication. Or better yet co-marketing for an SDN Pathology forum gummy product: the El Diablo Gummy Bear.

Jared has like 20000 twitter followers, I assume all without the need to post revealing pics in his banana hammock? Impressive.

Jared what happened to Bruce Smoller? He still alive and kicking at Arkansas?

this is awesome, best thread evah!

For all the crap California fails to deliver on nowadays, at least I can read my new issue of The Cannabis Scientist proudly sitting in the patio seating at Starbucks.

Dude your outta control but hilarious. Some of these posts are epic.

 

[Med Director New England]

The #1 Pathologist

The Power List 2019

We honor 100 of the leading innovators in pathology and laboratory medicine by celebrating their success at the cutting edge of the field.

thepathologist.com

Kind of like the king of the dipshits.

Sixteen Candles (1984) clip with quote Kind of like the king of the dip****s. Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect clip.

getyarn.io

Addendum:
I am NOT meaning to disparage the fine pathologists in the list - like others just having a little fun with the concept.

 

[Vicinal]

The Power List 2020

From ocular oncology to tackling neglected diseases, our 2020 Power Listers are making their mark on ophthalmology – and beyond.

theophthalmologist.com

Maybe they have this for all specialties

 

[LADoc00]

Im absolutely not professionally disparaging Jared, we are just having fun. Can we have fun in these dark COVID times? A little light hazing mods??

LOVE THAT 16 CANDLES CLIP! That's pretty cool..

I love the Power List, we need to get swag made for this: Power List of Pathology "King of the Dip****s"

Now I want to go into academics, perhaps launch a pathology version of Old School since we are doing movie cliches.

Someone cross reference Playboy's Biggest Party Schools with universities with pathology faculties and I will apply!

 

[LADoc00]

Nanopath you are officially a SDN Path forum folk hero for finding this on the internet man. Good work.

I already have ideas for like 10+ comedy threads related to the "Power List"...omg I cant even type that with a straight face!!!!

 

[octopusprime]

Maybe it's like the "Who's Who" list and you just need to submit $10 and your CV.
They should add a category--most epic theatrical persona...Gillian Anderson for Dana Scully, Milo Ventimiglia from his Pathology movie character, Anthony Garcia for Anthony Garcia, lots of material here...I guess Hannibal Lecter was a forensic "pschiatrist" but that's fairly close.

 

[deleted1074676]

BU Path was last seen in June. Do you think he gave up on posting jobs to SDN?

 

[octopusprime]

BU Path was last seen in June. Do you think he gave up on posting jobs to SDN?

well one can peruse the job listings on path outlines, which covers the ubiquitous academic openings BU referenced in addition to a handful of actually decent jobs, so ideally.

 

[cmz]

The #1 Pathologist

The Power List 2019

We honor 100 of the leading innovators in pathology and laboratory medicine by celebrating their success at the cutting edge of the field.

thepathologist.com

Why stop there? I think we need to band together and get us listed in the "Top Docs" category you find in every in-flight magazine you see when you travel. I want to see myself in Hemispheres, Sky, Southwest Airlines Spirit, US Airways Magazine, American Way, enRoute, etc. listed besides the "Facial Injectables" docs.

About — The Best Docs

www.thebestdocs.com

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Number one on any power list should be the Pathology Blawg guy. He helped take down Theranos.

I am glad to not see a bunch of bow ties on the Power List. There are too many pathologists wearing those.

I thought, based on the title of this thread, that someone was talking about Chauncey Gardner from the awesome movie Being There. "There will be pathology growth in the spring."

 

[deleted1074676]

Pathology Blawg guy is a hero. Too bad he got shut down.

"No good deed goes unpunished."

 

[dukeresident]

Gardner is an academic who has no business assessing job opportunities in pathology. Also a big proponent of twitter as a tool in pathology.

My department has had a number of faculty score on the power list 100. Suffice it to say it has no relation to reality. As in all things it is purely political...

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Gardner is an academic who has no business assessing job opportunities in pathology. Also a big proponent of twitter as a tool in pathology.

My department has had a number of faculty score on the power list 100. Suffice it to say it has no relation to reality. As in all things it is purely political...

Looks like he has a new job

Jerad M. Gardner, MD

Dr. Jerad Gardner, Dermatopathologist, Geisinger Medical Laboratories, where he specializes in dermatopathology and soft tissue and bone pathology. He is also author of the book Survival Guide to Dermatopathology and co-author of the book Survival Guide to Soft Tissue Pathology. He is...

www.geisingermedicallabs.com

 

[deleted1074676]

I wonder if Pathology Blawg guy ever got an award... like a Courage Award or Leadership Award from CAP or The Pathologist Magazine.

Instead, the awards go to Twitter users?

2020 Meritorious Service Awards Honorees

The College of American Pathologists is the world's leading organization of board-certified pathologists.

www.cap.org

 

[Thr0mbus]

Pathology Blog guy needs a NOBEL PEACE PRIZE for exposing the fraud that Theranos is (and taking threats, intimidation for it).

Likewise Thrombus needs a NOBEL PEACE PRIZE IN MEDICINE for exposing BIG ACADEMIA for the frauds that they are(and taking abuse for it)!

 

[Iceman24]

Jared what happened to Bruce Smoller? He still alive and kicking at Arkansas?

I'm not Jared, but Smoller is doing exceptionally well, drinking wine and managing path department at Rochester.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

I wonder if Pathology Blawg guy ever got an award... like a Courage Award or Leadership Award from CAP or The Pathologist Magazine.

Instead, the awards go to Twitter users?

2020 Meritorious Service Awards Honorees

The College of American Pathologists is the world's leading organization of board-certified pathologists.

www.cap.org

The picture of the award looks lame. Reminds me of the awards I won at road races in towns with a stone quarry all those years ago.

 

[KeratinPearls]

The picture of the award looks lame. Reminds me of the awards I won at road races in towns with a stone quarry all those years ago.

LOL what is that thing?

 

[Doormat]

The pathology blawg guy is such a stud. What a shame if CAP really did threaten him with legal action and he shut down his website. I loved reading his posts and his vignettes about pass-through (client) billing of pathologist and lab services. I'm waiting for the Theranos movie where J-Law portrays Elizabeth Holmes and Woody Harrelson plays our hero pathologist who tips off John Carreyrou at the Wall Street Journal. The rest is history...

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

The pathology blawg guy is such a stud. What a shame if CAP really did threaten him with legal action and he shut down his website. I loved reading his posts and his vignettes about pass-through (client) billing of pathologist and lab services. I'm waiting for the Theranos movie where J-Law portrays Elizabeth Holmes and Woody Harrelson plays our hero pathologist who tips off John Carreyrou at the Wall Street Journal. The rest is history...

He stated he took his site down because it took to much of his time. I don't know where you heard about CAP making threats.

 

[Doormat]

That's right. I stand corrected. If I recall correctly, he mentioned legal issues along with a drain on his time. It's also much more likely that he was threatened by attorney David Boies at Theranos, if he was threatened at all.

The very last post on the Pathology Blawg that I recall was his interpretation of the 2015 Strata Dx settlement with the US attorney in massachusetts. He left the ball in our court. From that settlement, any savy pathologist could contact a regional US attorney and blow the whistle on a business that offers pass-through (client) billing of pathology services in exchange for medicare referrals. That means a medical practice (usually GI uro, or derm) that sends biopsies from commercially-insured patients and government payers (medicare/tricare/medicaid) to the same pathology lab is in violation of the false claims act (FCA). The lab is offering something of value (de facto kickbacks from client billing of commerically-insured patients) in exchange for medicare referrals. This is a a grey area, but in my opinion an aggressive US attorney would take the case.

 

[Med Director New England]

The very last Blawg post was also highly critical of CAP leadership & his goodbye note hinted at possible legal issues. But he was also critical of many others including the theranos...

agree the blawg was awesome. I think a lot of regulars here migrated after the Blawg was shuttered.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

If I knew I was about to be mentioned in the Bad Blood book, I would have taken the site down as well. Satchel has been compromised.

After that you have the worry of your employer scrutinizing your postings. I am sure they wouldn't want the attention.

I saw an interview with Carreyrou on CSPAN (I think) where he acted like the pathology blawg had very few followers. I didn't agree with that.

 

[dukeresident]

Looks like he has a new job

Jerad M. Gardner, MD

Dr. Jerad Gardner, Dermatopathologist, Geisinger Medical Laboratories, where he specializes in dermatopathology and soft tissue and bone pathology. He is also author of the book Survival Guide to Dermatopathology and co-author of the book Survival Guide to Soft Tissue Pathology. He is...

www.geisingermedicallabs.com

indeed...since June 2020...I expect University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences (UAMS) didn‘t pay enough.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Arkansas is a pretty rural area. I don't know if I ever told people this but rural is best place to be.

 

[Guest8]

Arkansas is a pretty rural area. I don't know if I ever told people this but rural is best place to be.

Geisinger is as rural as rural gets. I interviewed there for dermpath fellowship. Talk about an East Podunk nowhere. The medical center is like the only civilization there. Crossed it right off my list.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

They do have a pathologist there named Cletus. Maybe it is rural enough.

 

[KeratinPearls]

Geisinger is as rural as rural gets. I interviewed there for dermpath fellowship. Talk about an East Podunk nowhere. The medical center is like the only civilization there. Crossed it right off my list.

Agree drove past there While on the highway a few months ago. Nothing out there in that part of Pennsylvania.

 

[LADoc00]

I'm not Jared, but Smoller is doing exceptionally well, drinking wine and managing path department at Rochester.

WHAT?! Smoller left Stanford because they wouldnt give his wife (a humanities professor) tenure so he went to Arkansas...only to then leave to Rochester?!

He musta got a divorce then.

LADOC rule #128: Never move for a woman (or a man).

 

[deleted314957]

You gotta be awfully damned cold tolerant to live there, especially after where he has been, seriously.

 

[path_spouse]

Geisinger is as rural as rural gets. I interviewed there for dermpath fellowship. Talk about an East Podunk nowhere. The medical center is like the only civilization there. Crossed it right off my list.

This is an interesting WaPo article that starts off with a pathologist working at Geisinger:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/05/12/pennsylvania-geisinger-hospital/

He owns a 40 acre farm.

Before I met my (pathologist) husband, my own career took me to that area for a little while. It's a rural area, and the surroundings in all directions are farmland with other small towns here and there. But it is also within a 2-3 hour drive of DC, Baltimore, NYC, Philly, and Pittsburgh. In that sense, I'm not sure I'd call it "as rural as rural gets"--in much of the US, you aren't within striking distance of one city that size, let alone four. There are a number of universities around...where I lived, my neighbors were mostly either professors or physicians at Geisinger.

That said, it's rural. Amenities like Uber arrived there years after they hit major cities, there weren't a ton of restaurant options, if you wanted to attend a play/concert/whatever you could, but you had a lot fewer options than you would in a city, and there wasn't an international airport nearby.

Ultimately it wasn't somewhere I wanted to settle at that stage of my life, but it was a fun place to spend a year and experience life away from a major metro area, in a place where the hospital and local universities still drew some really smart and accomplished people. For someone who gets a good career opportunity at Geisinger, I know many physicians and university faculty who are from major metro areas and either love it there--or don't love it but still find that the pros are greater than the cons, and escape to Philly for the weekend.

 

[deleted314957]

If schools and shops close opening day of deer season ( Kitanning PA) you know you are rural.

 

[bauber]

WHAT?! Smoller left Stanford because they wouldnt give his wife (a humanities professor) tenure so he went to Arkansas...only to then leave to Rochester?!

He musta got a divorce then.

LADOC rule #128: Never move for a woman (or a man).

We're gonna need the full list...

 

[LADoc00]

We're gonna need the full list...

The rest are behind a Patreon account paywall.

 

[Iceman24]

WHAT?! Smoller left Stanford because they wouldnt give his wife (a humanities professor) tenure

Dunno, may be they offered her tenure at UR.

so he went to Arkansas...only to then leave to Rochester?!

Absolutely.

He musta got a divorce then.

Nope, he did not

LADOC rule #128: Never move for a woman (or a man).

In general I agree with you but there is an exception from every rule.
Can you throw in some examples?