Gay Friendly Schools?

[Psycho Doctor]

Psych Doc, cleaver how you characterized it under a belief system-shocked no-one caught that.

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[dmk724]

I think the best doctors are ones for whom "disapproval for a person's lifestyle or 'choices'" simply does not exist outside the context of that person's health. If a person chooses to lead his/her life in a way that the doctor chooses not to, then I think it should be left at that. There is no need for the doctor to take an active position on the person's lifestyle, and certainly no call for approval/disapproval. So I guess my thoughts are that a doctor should not strive to strike a balance between disapproval and genuine concern, as it should all be genuine concern.

I was also intrigued by your earlier post, dmk, where you mentioned that people can sometimes be "too honest" in their interviews. It's so disturbing to me that there is such a thing as "too honest." Too direct, too tactless, too forthright - those I can understand. But too honest?

(Btw, I hope you don't feel like I'm picking on you, dmk. It's just that you raise interesting points. )

I think I must just make really bad word choices, or something, because I think everyone is reading too deeply into what I'm saying. Perhaps "too forthright" would be a better expression. One of my classmates told me a story about an interview that they had been to, where one of the interviewees was trying too hard to make conversation with the dean of admissions. (I don't know what school this was at.) The dean asked this girl what she liked to do in her spare time, and she enthusiastically replied, "I love the TV show 'ER'! I love it SO much, I'm watching about 6 hours of it a day!" Although I'm sure that the dean appreciated her candor and honesty, somehow telling the dean of admissions that you spend, literally, a quarter of the day watching television doesn't seem like the best idea in the world.

The reason I asked about balancing your personal beliefs as a doctor and the desire to help your patients is that it came up last weekend. I volunteered at a Christian based health clinic, so they do a lot of things that I had never thought of before. For example, if an 18 year old were to come in and ask about getting contraception, the doctor would probably spend a large chunk of time counseling her on waiting until she got married. That's not something that would ever have occurred to me to do, and I'm still trying to figure out how I think about that. I would have thought to counsel a girl asking for contraception on whether this is really what she wants to do, make sure that her boyfriend isn't pressuring her, etc., but counseling on abstinence until marriage? Not something that I had ever considered. On one hand, abstinence until marriage is something that these doctors truly believe in. But, I'm wondering how many 18 year olds would avoid this particular health clinic (which serves an underserved population) because of the fear of getting a lecture everytime they came in. Before someone says "Well, then, these aren't good doctors," they are. They genuinely care about their patients, and are willing to work in an underserved area with poor, uninsured patients. This is just one example - it's been a frequent topic of conversation among some of my classmates this year. I think that a lot of medical schools are talking about this, since I think that many schools are assigning "The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down," which talks about the doctor's beliefs butting heads with the patient's beliefs.

 

[runner1979]

How many times do we have to do this dance? I think everyone's opinions are clear... maybe we should stay on topic.

As to the OP, I think any med school (save a few like my alma matter, Texas A&M) will be fine for LGBT students. I personally am only familiar with the Texas medical schools and some Northeastern schools... and my general conclusion is that while some schools have better support/recognition of LGBT students, it is really the town that will have the largest influence. While it is important to be comfortable in your surroundings at school, I think it equally important that you can live your life the way you wish outside of school too.

Once in school and progressing towards your MD, my hunch is that there will start to be a clear definition between your professional life and personal life--and thus, the resources of the school will become less important than the resources that the town you live in can offer. I'd much rather attend a school without an LGBT group in a town where I can meet/date/partner off than vice versa.

Isn't it odd that so many people think that places in the south, such as Texas, are intolerant--yet some of the towns in Texas have some of the largest gay populations in the nation? Perception vs. Reality are two very different things.

Just my stance. Best of Luck in the application process this year!

 

[DianaLynne]

My application, both AMCAS and secondaries, was chock full of GLBT activism. I've worked on a nonprofit organization both as paid staff and on the board of directors, organized PrideFest celebrations for the city of Boulder, Colorado, and facilitate a bisexual support group. With all of this info, I never had to explicitly talk about my orientation and I was able to keep all of my interview conversations focused on my volunteer activities and my passion for equal civil rights.

For the most part, I'd say that all the schools I interviewed at were welcoming. Of course, one of the filtering criteria that I used to select schools to apply to was their mission statement. I wanted to see that they explicitly had sexual orientation in the diversity policy. Some schools have actually been quite excited about my activism. UMich, CU, and Yale have all gone out of their way to refer to the worth of that work.

So, I must say that Yale is trying to get on board. There is a GLBT group there, recently reincarnated from another. The director of admissions even went out of his way to hook me up with some of the leaders of that group, we went out, had pizza and drinks. Good times.

 

[tacrum43]

that's exacxtly what i thought, so i decided to ignore it.

It's interesting that homosexual people aren't confident in their own lifestyle that they feel it's a mechanism to bash others.

Hey Psycho,

It's me again, remember our conversation about NYMC and their request for a transcript? Well, I think this whole thread would fall under the same sort of heading as that one, not applicable to you. Just FYI.

Keep in mind that there is a significant proportion of homosexuals that do not engage in a "party/club" sort of lifestyle. I am a Christian too and while I would agree with you that that kind of lifestyle is sinful, I do not believe being homosexual is a sin. I know there are passages in the Bible that appear on the surface to condemn it, but a closer look reveals that they do not.

In addition, there are many other things that the Bible, especially the book of Leviticus, lists as sins but are no longer considered sinful because of our current social atmosphere (this has not happened for homosexuality). The new testament is a move away from the Levitical laws: "God...has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of letter but of spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 3:5-6. Furthermore "And now faith, hope, and love abide, these threee; and the greatest of these is love" 1 Corinthians 13:13. I believe that the love homosexuals feel for their partners as just as valid as it is for their heterosexual counterparts. It is just as sinful for heterosexuals to sleep with every other person they walk into as it is for homosexuals. Do not confuse the lifestyle of some homosexuals (and some heterosexuals for that matter) with homosexuality in general.

Just my thoughts.

P.S. Congratulations on all of your acceptances! You're going to have a lot of choices to make this spring.

 

[sacrament]

I didn't read this whole thread so I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but other than San Francisco I think it'd be difficult to find a city more accepting of GLBT than Portland, OR. It's virtually mainstream here.

 

[GuyLaroche]

Hey Psycho,

It's me again, remember our conversation about NYMC and their request for a transcript? Well, I think this whole thread would fall under the same sort of heading as that one, not applicable to you. Just FYI.

Keep in mind that there is a significant proportion of homosexuals that do not engage in a "party/club" sort of lifestyle. I am a Christian too ....

Well, stop it! Stop this religion nonsense forthwith! It stands against all reason and just doesn't belong in this thread. Keep the faith out of the thread.

Just my thoughts. And please... just stop!

 

[GuyLaroche]

Now if someone attempted to pick me up or go somewhere with all homosexual males, that's a totally different story.

It'll be a story alright - a fictional, unrealistic story. I'm guessing gay people aren't falling over themselves to ask you out. Stick with the bible. Let's call it your little black book.

 

[tacrum43]

Well, stop it! Stop this religion nonsense forthwith! It stands against all reason and just doesn't belong in this thread. Keep the faith out of the thread.

Just my thoughts. And please... just stop!

Okay, so maybe it was a little (or a lot) off the topic of Gay Friendly Schools, but I was trying to make the point that homosexuality is not synonymous with "Gay Culture". Besides, I wasn't the one who took the thread in this direction. However, as long as were discussing religion, it certainly does not stand against all reason. Scientific fact only contradicts people's interpretations of religion, not faith itself.

 

[indo]

does "gay friendly" = near a bath house?

 

[GuyLaroche]

does "gay friendly" = near a bath house?

That's disgusting, rude and insulting. I'm not sure the good people on here would find your poor attempt at humor entertaining. In short, get lost!

 

[Mateodaspy]

does "gay friendly" = near a bath house?

nope, it just means 'far, far away from bigoted dinguses like yourself'

 

[indo]

Hey, easy there, trigger. I was just looking for some clarity on the issue 'cause mostly gay friendly= not in a "red state". Lighten up, I live in the gayest city in america so I'm practically one of you guys!

 

[Mateodaspy]

Hey, easy there, trigger. I was just looking for some clarity on the issue 'cause mostly gay friendly= not in a "red state". Lighten up, I live in the gayest city in america so I'm practically one of you guys!

Okay, indo.. whatever... if a black person asked if an area of town was 'friendly toward african americans' and then you replied... "well, it's near a church's fried chicken."

that would be considered offensive and rightfully so... what you said could perhaps be considered worse since associating bathhouses with gays is probably a much more negative association than blacks and fried chicken.

i just respond to what i read, indo.. and I think based on what you said, it was fairly reasonable to take offense.

 

[cytoborg]

Hey, I'm planning on applying this summer to matriculate in 2006, and am trying to complile a list of schools to apply to. After this whole issue this year with NYMC, I'm curious what other people think are the more gay friendly medical schools.

Back to the OP's question, try Duke. They founded the first LGBT hosting program in the country. The Triangle is pretty liberal compared to most places (not compared to the most liberal cities like San Francisco, so it of course depends on your frame of reference).

 

[indo]

Okay, indo.. whatever... if a black person asked if an area of town was 'friendly toward african americans' and then you replied... "well, it's near a church's fried chicken."

that would be considered offensive and rightfully so... what you said could perhaps be considered worse since associating bathhouses with gays is probably a much more negative association than blacks and fried chicken.

i just respond to what i read, indo.. and I think based on what you said, it was fairly reasonable to take offense.

Asking if an area of town is friendly toward african americans is asking if that neighborhood has places to eat, shop, and get haircuts (etc.) that are ethnically specific. These types of services aren't found in everyday white saturated suburban-type neighborhoods. But, what types of services do gay people, specifically, need that aren't found in every neighborhood? Obviously a larger gay population would be desirable but you don't have to start a thread to figure out where large gay populations exist. The only other gay-specific services I can think of are gay bars and bath houses.

 

[GuyLaroche]

Asking if an area of town is friendly toward african americans is asking if that neighborhood has places to eat, shop, and get haircuts (etc.) that are ethnically specific. These types of services aren't found in everyday white saturated suburban-type neighborhoods. But, what types of services do gay people, specifically, need that aren't found in every neighborhood? Obviously a larger gay population would be desirable but you don't have to start a thread to figure out where large gay populations exist. The only other gay-specific services I can think of are gay bars and bath houses.

You really ought to stop. You're not coming off as terribly bright. In addition, one more offensive post and I'll have to call the attention of the mods to you.

 

[Mateodaspy]

Asking if an area of town is friendly toward african americans is asking if that neighborhood has places to eat, shop, and get haircuts (etc.) that are ethnically specific. These types of services aren't found in everyday white saturated suburban-type neighborhoods. But, what types of services do gay people, specifically, need that aren't found in every neighborhood? Obviously a larger gay population would be desirable but you don't have to start a thread to figure out where large gay populations exist. The only other gay-specific services I can think of are gay bars and bath houses.

The next time you get called a "fa.ggot" in the street for holding your partner's hand as you go to a restaurant, then you can feel free to criticize me for wanting to find a gay friendly city for me to spend my time in medical school. In the meantime, shut your hole and get off this thread.

 

[Fed Meat]

You really ought to stop. You're not coming off as terribly bright. In addition, one more offensive post and I'll have to call the attention of the mods to you.

Calling on the thought police over that is lame.

I think you're being overly sensitive, dude. The only offense you can find in that comment is one that exists and should be offensive but shouldn't be ignored.

Having lived with gay roommates in a particular town where those sorts of things existed (bars where everyone went home with somone new, bath houses), that's what gay culture revolved around. Just because everyone didn't participate in it didn't didn't mean it didn't exist and wasn't a focal point of a community. Sure, there were bookshops, coffee houses, etc..., but those weren't the focal points of the community, and even any outsider could see that quite plainly.

I could perfectly understand if that's what "gay culture" meant to an outsider.

 

[Mateodaspy]

Calling on the thought police over that is lame.

I think you're being overly sensitive, dude. The only offense you can find in that comment is one that exists and should be offensive but shouldn't be ignored.

Having lived with gay roommates in a particular town where those sorts of things existed (bars where everyone went home with somone new, bath houses), that's what gay culture revolved around. Just because everyone didn't participate in it didn't didn't mean it didn't exist and wasn't a focal point of a community. Sure, there were bookshops, coffee houses, etc..., but those weren't the focal points of the community, and even any outsider could see that quite plainly.

I could perfectly understand if that's what "gay culture" meant to an outsider.

I suppose you'd also understand if an 'outsider' accused 'black culture' of being all about drugs and crime. Those aren't ideas that should be 'understood', but rather they are ideas that should be deemed ignorant and irresponsible. That's all I was pointing out.

 

[GuyLaroche]

Calling on the thought police over that is lame.

Read the post properly. Mateodaspy mentioned the blacks and fried chicken example to make a clever point about how generalizations (and crude ones at that) can be deemed offensive. Indo, in what appears to be dullness rather than a natural knack for being annoying, spins Mateodaspy's post to suggest that a person making a "fried chicken" association with a black person is in fact in the right. After all, such a person - as she put it - would only be inquiring about an "ethnic-specific" service. Then she proceeded to make the comment about how gays are all about bars and clubs. Yeah, I'm moving to call her post incredibly offensive.

I hope you now see that. It is a pity, I must say, that in the length of time you spent with your gay roommates, all that summarizes them as people to you is bar-hopping, shirt-twirling club queens. More than asking you to learn how to comprehend nuanced statements -however ill-formed they might be (a la indo's post), perhaps I should be imploring you to learn how to value people.

God bless.

 

[myodana]

It'll be a story alright - a fictional, unrealistic story. I'm guessing gay people aren't falling over themselves to ask you out. Stick with the bible. Let's call it your little black book.

by the way... GENIUS

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Hey Psycho,

It's me again, remember our conversation about NYMC and their request for a transcript? Well, I think this whole thread would fall under the same sort of heading as that one, not applicable to you. Just FYI.

Keep in mind that there is a significant proportion of homosexuals that do not engage in a "party/club" sort of lifestyle. I am a Christian too and while I would agree with you that that kind of lifestyle is sinful, I do not believe being homosexual is a sin. I know there are passages in the Bible that appear on the surface to condemn it, but a closer look reveals that they do not.

In addition, there are many other things that the Bible, especially the book of Leviticus, lists as sins but are no longer considered sinful because of our current social atmosphere (this has not happened for homosexuality). The new testament is a move away from the Levitical laws: "God...has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of letter but of spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 3:5-6. Furthermore "And now faith, hope, and love abide, these threee; and the greatest of these is love" 1 Corinthians 13:13. I believe that the love homosexuals feel for their partners as just as valid as it is for their heterosexual counterparts. It is just as sinful for heterosexuals to sleep with every other person they walk into as it is for homosexuals. Do not confuse the lifestyle of some homosexuals (and some heterosexuals for that matter) with homosexuality in general.

Just my thoughts.

P.S. Congratulations on all of your acceptances! You're going to have a lot of choices to make this spring.

hey there, i agree that it's the lifestyle tha tis sinful. Love the sinner, hate the sin. And yes of course many of the Leviticus laws were overturned with the new covenant. However the NT talks against homosexuality. And I also agree with you that any premartial sex is sinful.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

by the way... GENIUS

 

[Mateodaspy]

hey there, i agree that it's the lifestyle tha tis sinful. Love the sinner, hate the sin. And yes of course many of the Leviticus laws were overturned with the new covenant. However the NT talks against homosexuality. And I also agree with you that any premartial sex is sinful.

As long as you don't let your religious bias against gays and lesbians interfere with the quality of your patient care (and as long as you still support full civil rights for gays and lesbians and their partners), I have no problem with your religious beliefs (which I wholeheartedly disagree with...).

 

[GuyLaroche]

As long as you don't let your religious bias against gays and lesbians interfere with the quality of your patient care (and as long as you still support full civil rights for gays and lesbians and their partners), I have no problem with your religious beliefs (which I wholeheartedly disagree with...).

 

[tacrum43]

hey there, i agree that it's the lifestyle tha tis sinful. Love the sinner, hate the sin. And yes of course many of the Leviticus laws were overturned with the new covenant. However the NT talks against homosexuality. And I also agree with you that any premartial sex is sinful.

That's not really fair for gays and lesbians though, because even if they wanted to wait until they got married, they can't. Also, which new testament passages are you referring to?

 

[sacrament]

You really ought to stop. You're not coming off as terribly bright. In addition, one more offensive post and I'll have to call the attention of the mods to you.

Along the spectrum of possible threats that one person can make to another, this ranks somewhere just behind "I'm going to write something really nasty about you in my diary tonight."

 

[LauraMac]

if you think homosexuality is a sin you should not be allowed to post in this thread. why would you say something so hurtful and mean to other people?

psycho, i take back my "sorry." you are condescending and rude to others, and i am not going to apologize to you and pretend like that's okay.

sorry OP that your thread is turning into this.

 

[Mateodaspy]

As a side note to an earlier comment I posted on this thread, the dean of admissions to Yale sent me an e-mail today wanting to re-schedule an interview I had made at Yale for this coming week. I had sent him an e-mail to let him know that I had been unable to find an LGBT student to host me, so he sent me a letter to let me know that he had personally sought one out to match me up with....

So, I'm liking Yale a bit more today....

 

[sacrament]

The turn that this thread has taken is something that no reasonable individual could ever have possibly seen coming. If my belly-button suddenly turned into a cuckoo clock I wouldn't be more surprised than I am regarding this thread. It's a shocking development hithertofore unseen in the annals of SDN.

 

[LauraMac]

just curious why you would want to bring it up. I'm a very strong Christian and would not bring it up on my own, only if it was necessary to answer a particular question.

i was just thinking about how ironic this is. nobody asked you whether you were christian, and you just threw it out there in this thread. also, i know your stance on just about every social issue, because you continually bring this stuff up in every thread. you're pro-life, super religious, think homosexuality is a sin, think premarital sex is a sin, etc. why do i know all this? because you continually bring it up even though no one has asked.

by the way, are you going to be one of those doctors who won't refer a patient to the appropriate doctor to get an abortion, because it is against YOUR moral code instead of worrying about HER moral code and what is best for HER?

 

[tacrum43]

The turn that this thread has taken is something that no reasonable individual could ever have possibly seen coming. If my belly-button suddenly turned into a cuckoo clock I wouldn't be more surprised than I am regarding this thread. It's a shocking development hithertofore unseen in the annals of SDN.

Right, because gays and religion have conflicts very similar to your belly button and a cuckoo clock.

 

[sacrament]

Right, because gays and religion have conflicts very similar to your belly button and a cuckoo clock.

So you were not surprised by this incredible turn of events? Sir, surely you must be a soothsayer or seer of some sort to have foreseen this. Because I was blindsided, I say, blindsided by these recent events. I daresay that if my toes became fingers and in the evenings I played Beethoven with my feet, it would be a less astonishing development.

 

[LauraMac]

Right, because gays and religion have conflicts very similar to your belly button and a cuckoo clock.

he's being sarcastic.

 

[GuyLaroche]

As a side note to an earlier comment I posted on this thread, the dean of admissions to Yale sent me an e-mail today wanting to re-schedule an interview I had made at Yale for this coming week. I had sent him an e-mail to let him know that I had been unable to find an LGBT student to host me, so he sent me a letter to let me know that he had personally sought one out to match me up with....

So, I'm liking Yale a bit more today....

Dean of admissions or director of admissions?

 

[tacrum43]

So you were not surprised by this incredible turn of events? Sir, surely you must be a soothsayer or seer of some sort to have foreseen this. Because I was blindsided, I say, blindsided by these recent events. I daresay that if my toes became fingers and in the evenings I played Beethoven with my feet, it would be a less astonishing development.

You would think you also would be informed of such a wedge issue, especially considering you live in the "United Theocracy of America." And the toe/Beethoven thing? That would definitely be a way to stand out on your med school application.

 

[tacrum43]

he's being sarcastic.

So was he.

 

[GuyLaroche]

Along the spectrum of possible threats that one person can make to another, this ranks somewhere just behind "I'm going to write something really nasty about you in my diary tonight."

Nooooo. Trust me. Evodevo don't play. He'll cut you off the lifeblood of SDN. If you try to come back as someone else, he'll cut you again. If you try, he'll cut you again. Then you'll write tons of e-mail pleading, and he'll not respond. Then Dr. mom will send you an e-mail saying you shouldn't try coming back. Then if you try to come back, they'll block your IP address. Seriously dude, I am super scared of the mods. They are scary. Scary, I tell you.

 

[sacrament]

So was he.

How many different people are we talking about here, exactly?

 

[LauraMac]

How many different people are we talking about here, exactly?

i'm curious about that myself. tacrum, who are you talking about?

 

[sacrament]

i'm curious about that myself. tacrum, who are you talking about?

If he says he is referring to the Holy Father himself, the Pope, who is sitting in his bedroom shining shoes with a can of Shinola, I would be less surprised than I am regarding the trajectory of this thread.

 

[Mateodaspy]

Dean of admissions or director of admissions?

sorry, i meant the director!

 

[tacrum43]

i'm curious about that myself. tacrum, who are you talking about?

I guess I wasn't clear. You (LauraMac) said that I (tacrum43) was being sarcastic, yes? Then I was telling you (LauraMac) that he (sacrament) was also being sarcastic in his response to my post that you (LauraMac) had called sarcastic.

 

[sacrament]

I guess I wasn't clear. You (LauraMac) said that I (tacrum43) was being sarcastic, yes? Then I was telling you (LauraMac) that he (sacrament) was also being sarcastic in his response to my post that you (LauraMac) had called sarcastic.

Not quite, but what's important is that you tried. And that I'm surprised and that the Pope is rather sarcastic.

 

[Fed Meat]

I hope you now see that. It is a pity, I must say, that in the length of time you spent with your gay roommates, all that summarizes them as people to you is bar-hopping, shirt-twirling club queens. More than asking you to learn how to comprehend nuanced statements -however ill-formed they might be (a la indo's post), perhaps I should be imploring you to learn how to value people.

God bless.

Is that it? I didn't read it with the right nuance? Listen, constantly fretting over nuance is so often a waste of time, and generalizations and stereotypes hold a great deal of truth. You can get offended by them, or you can accept them as part of the community to which you belong, even if you yourself don't participate in them.

And I have no idea where I mentioned that all that summarized gays to me were the bars and clubs of the gay community or that this is all that I valued about my roommates, but those were most certainly the places to go if you wanted to know what was going on in the gay community and the focal points of the gay community. That's where the bulletin boards were, that's where the newspapers were, and that's where everyone spread the word. More than the coffee houses, more than the bookshops, the gay stylist, or what have you.

Honestly, I don't see what's offensive about stereotypes. You know, the other day, I was in Mississippi when I was driving to Tulane. I pulled over to get gas, and there was a line of cars wrapped around a Popeyes and a KFC. Wendys and Burker King, on the other hand, were ghost towns. That's something to smile at; not get offended by.

It's not going to bother me one way or the other. If you consider my observations offensive, fine. But I'm someone who has been to a gay establishment on hundreds of occasions, and I call'em like I see'em--not how someone tells me to see'em or tells me is an appropriate way to see'em.

Obviously there is going to be more to an individual than a group-think, but those group-thinks do influence the way people behave. There was a reason that the Episcopal church was crammed full of gays (relatively speaking, of course). There was a reason that certain bars became the center of gay life in my area. If you wanted to go to meet gay men, that's where you went, de facto. No reason to get offended.

 

[sacrament]

I didn't read this whole thread so I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but other than San Francisco I think it'd be difficult to find a city more accepting of GLBT than Portland, OR. It's virtually mainstream here.

I guess I should note that Portland does not, however, have much in the way of good fried chicken.

 

[LauraMac]

I guess I wasn't clear. You (LauraMac) said that I (tacrum43) was being sarcastic, yes? Then I was telling you (LauraMac) that he (sacrament) was also being sarcastic in his response to my post that you (LauraMac) had called sarcastic.

oh, i was talking about sacrament as well. sorry, i didn't realize that you were being sarcastic, too. i think now that we have this very important matter straightened out we can finally move on to bigger and better things such as how sarcastic the pope may or may not be.

 

[Elysium]

This thread is by far the most relevant, interesting thing on SDN. I'm positively titilated.

 

[andexterouss]

and as long as you still support full civil rights for gays and lesbians and their partners), I have no problem with your religious beliefs (which I wholeheartedly disagree with...).

Not everyone is down with gay marriage including John Kerry.