Gen. Surg research...is it good to get into Ortho residency??

Discussion in 'Medical Students - MD' started by HEADintheCLOUDS, Jun 16, 2008.

  1. HEADintheCLOUDS

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    Well I have been trying to get ortho research but most of the people I have contacted and that have said yes there is researhc but have flaked out.However I can get some gen surg research for sure with possible authorship. Will this help me in getting into ortho residency or is it a waste of time?
     
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  3. MrBurns10

    MrBurns10 Excellent, Smithers
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    Research never hurts, but I've heard that for ortho in particular it is important to do research in that field. Why don't you ask this in the ortho forum?
     
  4. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member
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    Bear in mind that ortho is moderately competitive these days, so since you keep posting about failing courses, you may want to keep your options more broad. So in your case I probably would do general surgery research. It will come in more handy if you find ortho out of your reach.
     
  5. HEADintheCLOUDS

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    Failing coursE. But yeah that kind of does make sense.
     
  6. Ashers

    Ashers Bacteria? Don't exist.
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    Failing course(s)... As an M1 I was told that any Pass was a major red flag for ortho. I was also told that it doesn't matter so much which specialty in which research is done.
     
  7. njbmd

    njbmd Guest
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    Just to inject a note of reality here for you:

    Noting that you have started a thread Would you repeat first year if you failed?about possibly repeating first year, it looks like you are not going to be competitive for General Surgery let alone Orthopedic. Your best bet is to stay off of SDN, pass your coursework and get some advice from faculty advisers as to which non-surgical specialty you may may be competitive for.

    You can also rule out Anesthesia and Radiology at this point too. My guess is that the ortho folks know of you academic troubles and do not want to get involved. In short, research other than into what study methods will keep you IN medical school is a waste of time for you.
     
  8. Doctor4Life1769

    Doctor4Life1769 **tr0llin, ridin dirty**

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    njbmd ... so as long as you don't fail, you are potentially in the hunt for those specialties (I'm going to start M2 in the Fall) ... so until board season comes around, anyone is potentially in the running for those specialties (given they've passed and not failed any course)?
     
  9. MrBurns10

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    While I agree that ortho may be out at this point, I have heard that failing a course in year 1 does not rule out any and all competitive specialties. If the OP remediates or passes, and then gets good grades in years 2 and 3 with a good step 1 score, it shouldn't hold him back much for general surgery, anesthesia, EM, or any of the other moderately competitive specialties. Now that may rule out gen surg at MGH, but there are lots of programs out there.
     
  10. thesauce

    thesauce Senior Member
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    No kidding.

    I have 2 friends that have done utterly terrible in med school and on the boards then tried and failed to match ortho. One even went so far as to do all of his aways at competitive California residency programs and then tried to match there from an out-of-state state school.

    I suggest that you be practical about this process or you're setting yourself up for failure. I'm not saying you should forget about ortho and research. I'm saying you should forget about ortho and research FOR NOW. Study hard and maybe your situation will improve. Good luck to you.
     
  11. HEADintheCLOUDS

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    wait, so if a person failed a system, remediated that system in the summer (which I already did...just waiting to see if I passed (scores being graded)) and since my school is P/F my transcript will look like (F/P) instead of just (P). So if this is the case (if I DO pass yr 1) you are saying that I am only good for GP? Even if I get a high board score 240+ and great clinical evals??
     
  12. MrBurns10

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    Read my post, I think in that case you'd be fine for most specialties (maybe not derm, plastics, ortho, other surg subspecialties), including gen surg. The best person you can talk to about this is your advisor/dean of students, as most who post on this board are med students.
     
  13. ACSurgeon

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    Although it is better to do ortho research, keep in mind that many applicants make up their minds well after MS-1 summer, and might only do ortho research as an elective 4th year. Having any surgical research this summer will definitely be better than nothing. Unless you can get ortho research, take the gen surg and be happy about it!!
     
  14. kdburton

    kdburton Ulnar Deviant

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    General surgery is not very competitive. The average score for 1st time Step I takers is just a few points below the average score for those matching in general surgery. Basically all you'd have to do is strategically apply to programs that aren't competitive and you'd have a good shot.
     
  15. kdburton

    kdburton Ulnar Deviant

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    I don't know what school you go to, but this isn't true. Maybe if you're failing classes its a red flag, but I know plenty of people who have matched into ortho and have pass on their transcript. At my school you can get 84.5% on a test and thats "pass" and there is a big difference between that and a 64.4% which is failing
     
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  17. Dedikated2liftn

    Dedikated2liftn Bodybuilder

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    I'm assuming you meant to say fail instead of pass. As someone said earlier, no one is going to expect you to honor in every course you take (regardless of what specialty you're trying to match into).
     
  18. Matching into General Surgery takes more than just "beating the mean" on Step 1. While it's certainly true that there are programs that are more competitive than others, having strong letters of recommendation, an "Honors" in your MS-III G Surg rotation and even some research is becoming more and more expected for the majority of programs.
     
  19. Ashers

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    This is according to my adviser with whom I've worked since M1 year (did research with him). I've also spoken with several residents who had gotten a pass (in OB/gyn), but, it was still what I was told. And it was PASS and not FAIL. My school is H, HP, P, LP, F, so while we're not expected to Honor every course, for ortho, my advisor expects people to have a majority honors and some HP.

    It also kinda seemed that headintheclouds needed to hear the unadulterated version that I heard as an M1 based on previous threads like others had mentioned.
     
  20. Ortho is very competitive. I wouldn't be surprised if most applicants had honored the vast majority of their rotations.
     
  21. Ashers

    Ashers Bacteria? Don't exist.
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    My adviser's old school. Grades (all years) and Step 1 are really important to him. Every time I saw him as an M1 or M2, he'd remind me that "grades are very important, try to honor everything this year." I also know he's not infallible. He told me I've got no chance at a CA residency despite good grades/step 1 because I'm not in a CA med school; while a family friend on the faculty of a CA med school said that they take lots of people not from CA.
     
  22. But you're still planning on doing at least one away rotation in CA, right?
     
  23. Ashers

    Ashers Bacteria? Don't exist.
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    Oh yeah, I've annoyed the crap out of my adviser by going to my dad's program in August. He told me I'm wasting my away by doing that.

    He's also not keen that for my July month I'm doing derm on Maui at a friend's office (and he asked if derm was my back up). However, my schedule at my school got majorly screwed up, and I don't have my ortho sub-I until Sept, and my parents are moving from Maui in October, so it's the only chance I'll have for free room and board.
     
  24. Nice! :thumbup: I would give anything to do a one-month rotation in Ka'anapali, Kapalua or Wailea right now.
     
  25. Dedikated2liftn

    Dedikated2liftn Bodybuilder

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    Well my bad, the only grades at my school are honors, pass, and fail (I wish we had a high pass though); however, this all depends on what grades are available at the OP's school.
     
  26. kdburton

    kdburton Ulnar Deviant

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    I think I was under the impression that you were talking about all of your classes and not just clinical rotations. While ideally it would be great to get nothing but high-pass/honors in your first two years in addition to doing well on all of your rotations I don't think that the first two years matter as much. At my school at least I've also heard that it is hard not to get at least a high-satisfactory on your rotations (although honors is still not easy to get by any means). With that said I could see where getting a PASS for one of your clinical grades, especially in surgery, would be a red flag for someone trying to get an ortho spot after graduation
     
  27. Ashers

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    Technically, I was talking about M1 and M2 years. My adviser counts them as majorly important.
     
  28. HEADintheCLOUDS

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    Okay everyone seems confused. Let me clear this up. At my school the first two years are either graded (P) pass or (F) fail or (F/P) fail then pass after remediation. There is not honors or high pass until 3rd/ 4th year.
     
  29. njbmd

    njbmd Guest
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    While matching into a Prelim General Surgey slot is not very competitive, matching into a Categorical Slot was pretty brutal last year. There was one slot open in the scramble and it went fast. Looking at Board scores is but one way to determine competitiveness. Believe me, landing a categorical General Surgey slot is not for people who have failed coursework and no amount of research is going to make up for poor academics.
     
  30. Droopy Snoopy

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    This is true, specialties ebb and flow and it seems for whatever reason Gen Surg is on the way up right now. Who knows what it'll be in two years (three?) when the OP is applying. These things seem to last a few years so it's a good bet it'll still be a reasonably competitive specialty at that time.
     
  31. It wasn't popular at all during the 90s and early part of this decade, but with the advent of the 80-hour workweek applications shot up. While you should never think G Surg is "easy" now because of the new regulations, it's certainly less malignant (for the most part) and thus more people are attracted to it. Each Match for the last few years has been VERY tough - no more than just a small handful of openings left come Scramble time.
     
  32. 78222

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    I don't think this distinction is going to matter much. The fact is you failed a class and that will show up on your application. I'd be willing to venture that even if you got good board scores and great evals, most programs would be a little iffy about accepting you. You need to be realistic here, competitive residencies are called "competitive" for a reason.
     

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