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General surgery and EM as a DO

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by s2kray, Nov 14, 2005.

  1. s2kray

    s2kray Junior Member
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    I am an undergrad senior with about a 3.47 cum GPA and 2.8 science GPA. i plan on taking a years worth of post bac science classes after graduating to boost up my science GPA. my stats are average if not below average for someone applying to medical schools. However, as i read more and more on this forum it seems that if i raise my science GPA to above a 3.0 and do as well as i have been doing on my practice mcats 27+ i might actually be competitive for DO schools...

    soo let me ask my question.. would it be hard for a DO to obtain a residency in general surgery or emergency medicine? i am specially interested in trauma. can someone school me on this?

    is there anyone here who's obtained residency to general surgery?
     
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  3. LTrain1

    LTrain1 Member
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    em and gsurg are both well within the reach of a d.o. gsurg will be harder but its competiveness has been declining recently. While it would be harder matching into these as a d.o. versus an m.d. both are easily obtainable with enough work
     
  4. OSUdoc08

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    Emergency Medicine is very friendly to DO's. The largest allopathic EM organization is led by a DO.

    Top ACGME residencies readily accept DO's, and there are vast AOA opportunities in EM.

    General surgery would be much more competitive in the ACGME, but there are AOA general surgery spots at a majority of schools.
     
  5. LovelyRita

    LovelyRita Blade Slinger
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    Applications were up for GS this year.

    DO's can do all specialties. There are programs with trauma fellowships.

    EM is different than GS. Most I know who are choosing EM are doing it for lifestyle purposes, so that as an attending they can work 4 shifts a month. But in EM you still can have to deal with acute situations which can get the adrenaline pumping. Or you can have a whole shift with sore throats and belly aches. You just never know.

    GS takes you into the OR where you learn the art of surgical technique, on top of learning medical management. And you can get the adrenaline going as well.
     
  6. RBorhani

    RBorhani Emergency Physician
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    I did my residency in Emergency Medicine in a ACGME (MD) residency program. I am now a practicing EM doctor. If you want to do mainly trauma, then you should do a surgery residency followed by a Trauma fellowship. As EM doctor you will do fair amount of traumas only if you work in a rural setting or if you work for a level I trauma center. I can tell you that most EM doctors want to stay as far away from level I centers as possible. This has to do with the patient population/amount of money you can make/liability, etc. I currently work at a very busy ED in the San Francisco area and essentially see no traumas since they go either to a local trauma center or they get handled by our surgeons.
     
  7. Taus

    Taus .
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  8. bobg504

    bobg504 Senior Member
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    Glad to see the KCUMB alumni representing!!!!
     
  9. ShyRem

    ShyRem I need more coffee.
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  10. Taus

    Taus .
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    sorry.. Bones posted the link in the thread "Got into DO and MD and chose DO" ....its definitely a worthwhile read...
     
  11. Lauviah84

    Lauviah84 Junior Member
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    I had a quick question, I am very interested in Emergency Medicine, and I wanted to ask you why it is that you chose to do an MD residency as opposed to a DO residency, what are the pros and cons etc..?
    thanx
     
  12. OSUdoc08

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    1 less year of training in the MD residency & larger academic/trauma centers.
     
  13. Taus

    Taus .
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    Osu...there is absolutely NOT an extra year....the only situation where that would potentially happen is if you do an MD residency in one of the infamous 5 states that requires a DO internship for licensure. It is extremely rare for anyone to do an extra year of training, even in those 5 states, when there are viable ways around it.
     
  14. OSUdoc08

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    All AOA training programs are 4 years, since ALL AOA programs require 1 year of internship plus 3 years of residency. (For EM.)

    ACGME programs do not require an internship year, and aside from a few exceptions, almost all ACGME programs are only a total of 3 years.

    Check your info, buddy.

    I noticed this isn't the first time that you have posted misinformation on this topic. It is clear that you don't understand that every AOA residency requires a year of internship, whereas ACGME residencies do not.
     
  15. Dorkus Maximus

    Dorkus Maximus King among men.
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    It's true that AOA residencies require a year of internship. But, (I'm not sure if its the same for all areas or specialties) some places let you count the year of internship as your first year of residency.

    Here's a great website for DO residencies: http://opportunities.aoa-net.org
     
  16. OSUdoc08

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    Nope, this is only applicable for ACGME residencies.

    All AOA residencies begin with the PGY-2 year. A previous year of training is ALWAYS required.

    (For EM.)
     
  17. DrMom

    DrMom Official Mom of SDN
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    AOA residencies in FM, IM, and peds, for example, integrate the Osteopathic internship into the 3-year residency program.
     
  18. OSUdoc08

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    Check the title: The discussion was regarding EM.
     
  19. Dorkus Maximus

    Dorkus Maximus King among men.
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    Oh! I might be misunderstanding this...

    "Specialty track internship: provides the majority of rotations in a specific specialty but also provide exposure to the core disciplines. This program grants joint credit for the internship and first year of residency training."

    Not sure what specialties it applies to, though.

    I read it at:

    http://www.do-online.osteotech.org/index.cfm?PageID=sir_postdoc

    Am I mistaken in my interpretation? :oops:
     
  20. DrMom

    DrMom Official Mom of SDN
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    True, but the first quote in my post appeared to be a more general statement.
     
  21. DrMom

    DrMom Official Mom of SDN
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    These are linked internships that are less like the traditional Osteo internship b/c you do fewer months in other specialites. They're more like a regular PGY-1 year in a residency.
     
  22. Dorkus Maximus

    Dorkus Maximus King among men.
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    I see! Thanks for the clarification! :)
     
  23. OSUdoc08

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    That is the internship year I am talking about. You still have to do 3 additional years in EM.
     
  24. Dorkus Maximus

    Dorkus Maximus King among men.
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    Got it! Thanks! :D
     
  25. ShyRem

    ShyRem I need more coffee.
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    I believe Denver EM at DGH requires an internship year prior to beginning the additional 3 years of EM residency. You can link these through your application. I wonder how many other ACGME residencies are going to this schedule?
     
  26. Taus

    Taus .
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    Sorry to hijack this thread somewhat..but I just wanna get this really important piece of info straight...as no one in their right mind would complete an extra year of residency unless it was an absolute necessity...

    I don't wanna you all fired up here... but you are missing my point that most AOA residencies requiring an internship will incorporate it into the residency years. Unless EM is a complete exception, here's how I understand it. Please correct me if I'm wrong: I would like to do PM&R, which is a 4 year residency (allo or osteo). However, that amounts to 1 year of internship + 3 years of residency for a total of 4 years. You begin your actual residency as a PGY-2. For AOA FP residencies, you do 1 year of internship + 2 years of residency for a grand total of 3.

    My point is that, unless EM is a complete exception, there is no extra year, unless you do, for example, a 3-year MD residency that does not require an internship (ie IM) and need to fulfill your DO internship year to be able to practice in the 5 states. In all other circumstances I don't know where this extra year thing is coming from unless EM is an exeption.

    Don't take this as a personal attack or anything....I just want to make sure that I understand the situation correctly...
     
  27. OSUdoc08

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    The minimum total years of training for EM in AOA is 4 years. Period.

    In the ACGME it is 3.
     
  28. Taus

    Taus .
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    I was not aware of that. Thanks. With the exception of EM, is anything incorrect in my last post?
     
  29. DrMom

    DrMom Official Mom of SDN
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    Right, many other specialties integrate in the internship year also. There are exceptions, of course, for example my home program's ortho residency has been using a traditional rotating internship & then has residency start PGY-2.

    EM doesn't really count it as an extra year, per se, because they're now mostly linked anyways. It just is an extra year as compared to most, buy not all, ACGME EM programs.

    I am told that DO OB/GYN programs are a year longer than most (if not all, I don't know) ACGME programs. I'm sure there are other examples out there, too. I haven't put a lot of time into looking into other specialty residencies.


    I think we're all essentially saying the same thing, but getting hung up on technicalities.
     
  30. RBorhani

    RBorhani Emergency Physician
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    I miss the tornados...
    :)
     
  31. RBorhani

    RBorhani Emergency Physician
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    When I was applying for EM programs they did not have a fast track for the AOA programs. Which meant the EM programs on the DO side were 4 years till completion, after medical school. You should also know that there are some ACGME(MD) EM programs that are 4 years as well.
     
  32. RBorhani

    RBorhani Emergency Physician
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    Please send me a private email with your questions and I will be happy to answer.

    RB
     
  33. (nicedream)

    (nicedream) Fitter Happier
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    All the more reason to jump ship to the ACGME! Way to go AOA!!
     

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