general surgery externships

[winterblue3]

I'm a 3rd year medical student, currently applying for general surgery externships. I know that I should apply for externships at places where I would like to go for residency. But I'm having trouble picking places and was wondering if anyone can help me out.

I'm considering doing the general surgery residency and then vascular surgery fellowship route. I would like to do my residency in a large city, but I don't want to be in a very malignant program (especially when I am just an average student).

Any suggestion for program choices would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

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[Blade28]

There are MANY factors to consider when looking for a residency program:

*Urban vs. suburban vs. rural location
*State? City?
*Academic vs. affiliated vs. community
*Presence of fellows?
*Research opporunities?
*Size of program
*Salary (important to some people)
*Presence of Vascular fellowship
*Associated hospitals - children's, VA, county, private?

Etc.

 

[Winged Scapula]

As Blade notes, there are so many factors, some of which are important to you but may not be to others, that its practically impossible for us to advise you on where you should do your electives and potentially residency.

 

[njbmd]

I'm a 3rd year medical student, currently applying for general surgery externships. I know that I should apply for externships at places where I would like to go for residency. But I'm having trouble picking places and was wondering if anyone can help me out.

I'm considering doing the general surgery residency and then vascular surgery fellowship route. I would like to do my residency in a large city, but I don't want to be in a very malignant program (especially when I am just an average student).

Any suggestion for program choices would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Some good advice in the answers to your question above and I would add that you might want to speak to some of the Vascular Surgery faculty at your medical school and some of the surgical interns/residents ( they are fairly fresh from the interview process) as to which programs might be of interest for you specifically. Above all, do not feel that you have to make this decision alone and therefore make an appointment with your Surgery Department chair or program director who can give you some advice and answer your questions.

Some of the fourth year students who have just matched in General Surgery might also be good resources for you too.

 

[winterblue3]

Thanks for your suggestions!

Unfortunately, I have not received much help from the fourth years and vascular surgeons at my school.

To answer Blade28's questions (and hopefully help you understand what I am looking for), I looking for the following in the residency program:

*Urban
*West coast, east coast, and Chicago (pretty much in a big city setting)
*Academic vs. affiliated vs. community doesn't matter as long as I would be competitive enough for vascular fellowship.
*Presence of fellows? fine w/ me as long as I get to assist in some cases.
*Research opporunities? Not a big fan.
*Size of program: 4+
*Presence of Vascular fellowship: somewhat important.
*Associated hospitals - children's, VA, county, private? doesn't matter.

I guess another question to ask everyone is "what does vascular fellowship program look for in an applicant?"

What about programs in Chicago and California? What have you heard about those programs? Very competitive and malignant?

Thanks again.

 

[jubb]

If you can fit it in to your schedule I would recommend doing an externship at a community program. While the faculty and residents at your med school will tell you they are crap, I suggest you go see for yourself. Community programs have a lot of advantages that you may find suit you better than the advantages of an academic program. But in the end it comes down to what you are looking for, and I'd say you need to experience both to be able to decide. You'll still be able to get a vascular fellowship from a community program.

 

[Castro Viejo]

You're about five to six or more years from applying for a Vascular Surger fellowship, so it's sort of difficult to say how competitive they will be.

Vascular Surgery has sort of come around in the last few years with more interest amongst General Surgery residents and, therefore, more competition. The match rate for Vascular Surgery has fallen to just above 80% in the 2007 Match (the one I was in), from just above 85% the year before. So all indications are that the current match, to take place next month, it'll probably be about the same or slightly under 80%.

As a profession Vascular Surgery is set to expand thje number of training opportunities. The larger centers have already established integrated 0+5 programs matching fourth year medical students. Very likely we'll be seeing more large centers establish similar programs in years to come. There is currently one 3+3 program at Rochester. There currenty aren't any 4+2 programs. I'm not sure what all this love for the integrated or ESP (Early Specialization Programs, referring to the 3+3 and 4+2 models) is going to mean for traditionally trained 5+2 fellowships. Will they go away? Will they freeze these numbers and increase the number of integrated and ESP positions? Only Nostradamus will know. So keep this in the back of your mind if you're sure Vascualr Surgery is what you want. I say this because while you may think you like Vascular Surgery today, or General Surgery for that matter, you may not like it by the time you become a fourth year General Surgery resident set for the Vascular Surgery match.

Anyway, currently matching into a Vascular Surgery fellowship is not impossible. It's certainly more difficult than Trauma, MIS, CVTS, and a few other surgical fellowships/residencies, but so long as you have decent ABSITE scores, good LORs, and interview well enough you'll get a spot.

Now where you match is really the question. The most competitive positions are highly competitive and usually require quite a bit of research or papers published.

I'm a community program Chief Residdent with solid ABSITEs, at least several papers and presentations (not all Vascular Surgery), and excellent LORs and I received plenty of interviews, some of which were at top fight programs.

Anyway if you have other questions, don't hesitate to ask here or PM me.

Good luck.

 

[Blade28]

I should also point out that it's a little late to apply for some of the away rotations already, so make sure you find out when the deadlines are, or which programs are already filled!

http://services.aamc.org/eec/students/

 

[papajohns]

I am in the same boat..I am a midwestern applicant who wants to end up on the east or west coast. I am planning to do an academic program on the west coast and am looking for a community program on the east coast that would be great to rotate at. Any suggestions?

 

[Blade28]

I am in the same boat..I am a midwestern applicant who wants to end up on the east or west coast. I am planning to do an academic program on the west coast and am looking for a community program on the east coast that would be great to rotate at. Any suggestions?

Again...we can't just recommend a random program that would be appropriate for you (well we can, but it would be completely arbitrary).

Look at some of the criteria I listed above and see what's important to you.

 

[zeitgeist]

not to open a can of worms/rehash a debate that's been on here many times over... i seem to remember pilotdoc weighing in on this topic in the past... but:

i would re-iterate talking to graduating MS4s and to faculty/the chair at your school. these were by far the best resources for me- in fact, they were the first to suggest to me to NOT do an away rotation (which i thought i HAD to do). i would meet with as many mentors as possible before deciding to spend a month somewhere as you perhaps could be better served doing subIs at your home program and getting very strong LoRs from home (versus a standard form-ish good letter from an away). as several PDs told me on the trail: "if an applicant's home program doesn't really want them, then why should we?". my advisors also pointed out that, unless i really wanted to go to a specific city or program, it was probably not worth it to just randomly go somewhere else.