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General Surgery is making a comeback!!

Discussion in 'Clinical Rotations' started by dr.evil, Mar 20, 2002.

  1. dr.evil

    dr.evil Senior Member Physician 7+ Year Member

    Oct 30, 2001
    As a general surgery applicant, I sure am glad that surgery didn't take as big of a hit as was previously thought prior to this week. 58 unfilled categoricals prior to scramble is not too terrrible. Around the same percentage as Radiology which had 17 spots (I know, 7 were at UT-SW) unfilled.

    Surgery has around 1500 (that's a guess) categorical spots per year with 58 unmatched = 3.9% unmatch rate

    Radiology has 920 spots with 17 unmatched = 1.8%

    So not too bad. It's been better but it was worse last year.

    Really though, WHO CARES!!!! Just posting to post and ease my anxiety prior to tomorrow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
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  3. carddr

    carddr Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    Jan 29, 2002
    <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

    2001...512 unfilled programs

    2002...469 unfilled programs
    Just one variable!!!!
    Time for salaries to go up&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
  4. Goofy

    Goofy Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    Nov 20, 2001
    United States Of America
    If making a comeback is important to you, I wouldn't get too excited. Surgery got hammered this year plain and simple. To understand the real meaning behind the numbers you must delve deeper. Surgery stood to have many hundred more spots available this year, but PD's responded to the dearth of AMG applications by increasing prematch offers dramatically. If you factor this in, than surgery really did very poorly in terms of interest. It remains one of the hardest fields to fill.
  5. Voxel

    Voxel Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Nov 5, 2001
    Yes most programs filled, but how many IMGs/FMGs filled the spots vs % of AMGs and compare this to last year. You will get a truer sense of what is happening with general surgery.
  6. LomaLindian

    LomaLindian Junior Member 7+ Year Member

    Feb 20, 2002

    Comparing Rads and Surg isn't as cut and dry as it would seem to be. There is a lot of controversy surrounding UTSW and this years match. I know of ppl who have posted that they contacted UT immediately at noon on Tues, only to find out that ALL of the spots were filled already. Why was it filled so quickly? With rads so competitive right now, they could have waited for the hundreds of applicants scrambling and taken the cream of the crop by sometime today.

    I have not heard of anyone scrambling into rads this year (I also admit that its still pretty early), so no one knows if these programs filled outside of the match. The programs could have been holding these spots for other ppl even though it looks like they were unfilled.

    It'll be interesting to see what the real reason is behind UTSW's matching debacle.
  7. neutropeniaboy

    neutropeniaboy Blasted ENT Attending 10+ Year Member

    Feb 10, 2002
    Why do I get the sense that people are out to get the field of general surgery and anyone who tries to enter it?

    Right now the future of general surgery is in question; the fact that there are fewer categorical openings this year pleases me. Perhaps this is a turn around. Perhaps this year is an anomaly. Who knows?

    There needs to be some changes from the administrative end and the applicant end. You can't walk around saying "I told you so" or "Serves you right" to every general surgery department. The low applicant pool has just as much to do with student's psychological fear of a hard lifestyle as it does the supposed rigorous 5-year plan that exists at some programs.

    I can say that I understand why someone doesn't want to go into general surgery; nevertheless, it's still a shame.
  8. denise

    denise Member 10+ Year Member

    Aug 2, 2000
    I don't get it!!!! Why are there post comparing Surg to ER to Ortho to Peds . . . and so on!! Come on guys when does it stop. Who cares which field is more competitive. The real issue should be are you happy with the program (and field) you chose!? It does not really matter if there are 1000 surgery spots that did not match; that does not make it any less competitive. That really makes the guy who did not match feel really good. Anyway, enough of me rambling. I am just happy I matched in the "easy field", according to all the post, of OB/GYN.
  9. carddr

    carddr Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    Jan 29, 2002
    :cool: :cool: :cool:

    Excellent wrap-up!!! Get over will always be a special field in medicine and it is definitely not for everyone!!!neither is Rads, ob/gyn, peds, on and on... I for one look forward to being appreciated!!!
  10. dr.evil

    dr.evil Senior Member Physician 7+ Year Member

    Oct 30, 2001
    Wow! I was just venting. I could care less what the most competitive/popular specialty is. I was just defending my specialty b/c all I hear is how bad surgery sucks, how the lifestyle sucks, and how bad surgery sucks (yeah, i said it twice for a reason). I also heard how horrible it was going to be with so many unfilled spots yet the rumors did not come to fruition. Surgery gets a lot of flack do to some bad experiences on clerkships and I'm sorry it's that way.

    BTW, on all my surgery interviews, I did not meet one, not one, FMG. Maybe this is an anomaly.

    Let me be politically correct and say that all specialties are the best, all specialties are competitive (cuz you have to make into and finish 4 years of med school), and all specialties have a reason for existing.

    Medicine rocks and so do the SDN forums cuz noone knows anyone's true intentions.
  11. Cuts

    Cuts Member 7+ Year Member

    Feb 1, 2002
    Chicago, IL
    Surgery sucks.
  12. godfather

    godfather Member 10+ Year Member

    Oct 13, 2001
    i totally agree that going by % unmatched is a terrible way to gauge the comptitiveness of a field. Just because surgery has 58 spots opens means absolutely nil. I know last year our school's program filled but the only reason was because they offered like 3 spots to fmgs and recruited the hell out of the local med school to fill. And yes there is a practical reason for discussing how competitive a specialty is because it gives the med students behind us an idea of what they're up against and how hard to gun. I definately wish i'd had this information as a MS2 and MS3 and believe me it helps a tremendous amount. 4th year medical students are the absolute best source for this type of info (ie better than residents, attendings, and med school counselors). the only better source is a PD, and even they won't be that great of a help until around december when they get a final tally of the total number of people applying and their quality. now if your playing this childish game of "my field is better than yours" than you need to get a life, but if your posting to help other students get a realistic idea of what to expect than i think you definately should post this type of info.
  13. LomaLindian

    LomaLindian Junior Member 7+ Year Member

    Feb 20, 2002

    I apologize if I came off saying that surgery isn't competitive. I just wanted to point out that there is some controversy surrounding the radiology unfilled positions this year. I wasn't making a comment about how much better radiology is.

    I personally enjoyed my surgery rotation. Whether or not a med student enjoys the rotation depends on how well they deal with different personality types (mostly anyway). I think I had a good time because I recognized that it won't be a touchy feely rotation--and I wasn't disappointed. I still think that surgery is competitive to get into--just not like in the past.

    Good luck on your choice of specialty.
  14. Pilot Doc

    Pilot Doc SDN Angel Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    Regarding the "I never saw any IMG's on my interviews," weak programs have been known to segregate their interview days. 4 out of 5 days will be all IMG and the few american candidates who apply all come together and see only other AMG's. Clever trick, no?
  15. hosskp1

    hosskp1 Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    Who cares how competetive some specialties are. If I want to go somewhere-- that is what I will go after. If I want radiology and I do not match-- then I wil lkeep trying until they let me in. Same thing for Ortho or a good surgery program. . So if someone says it is easy or hard it will not make much difference in my specialty choice.
  16. droliver

    droliver Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    May 1, 2001
    I'd like to give props to Louisville's 4th year students matching in general surgery 6 of whom will stay with us <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" /> , as well as 2 @ UAB, 1 @ Vanderbilt, 1 @ Baylor-Dallas, 1 @ Carolina Med. Center, 1 @ Penn, and 1 @ Univ. of Wisconsin. I'm very proud of all of you!

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