General surgery orals

[Yasergale]

I tried searching for this but unsuccessfully. My program has a very low pass rate on the general surgery boards. If they dont fail the written, they fail the orals, sometime more than 3x. My absite is in the 76%. So written is not a concern, but orals is. My program is heavy on operating and duty but low on the academic teachings. Its very obvious why our pass rate is so low.

Ill be studying my ass of for the orals and also through odysseus course, which i heard was the best.

My question is:

1) How does anyone find out how many times you took the orals?
2) Does the number of times you take the boards affect you in any way as long as you pass at the end?
3) Is the training program the only real party affected by whether you pass or not?

Im asking this because, statistically, the odds are against me. I wish i knew this before applying 5 years ago but hey, gotta live with it.

thanks for any input.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[gerickson03m]

Question 1: You should be able to vividly remember how many time you took the orals. If you are unsure you can call the ABS and ask

Question 2: Keep on retaking the test will delay you being certified but as long as you pass it in the first 5 years, you will not need to do any remediation which is outlined on the ABS website.

Question 3: Training programs are directly affected. They have to keep a greater than 65%-70% 1st time pass (over a period of time I can't remember) rate which incudes both the oral and written together. If they go below, it is grounds for probation vs termination.

 

[Yasergale]

What i meant was if anyone else can find out how many times you took the orals. Can a hospital find out or a potential employer?

 

[Castro Viejo]

What i meant was if anyone else can find out how many times you took the orals. Can a hospital find out or a potential employer?

No and no, unless you decide to disclose that information.

In the end, who really cares? A pass is a pass whether it's the first attempt or that desperate fifth. The only people who really care will be your PD and your Chairman, but once you're done they can't really hurt you anymore.

 

[Winged Scapula]

The only way others would find out is if you disclose this information.

BUT, you have to be careful, because the hospital is a gossipy place. I cannot tell you the number of times I've heard a colleague talking about another who "can't pass his boards" or "hasn't passed yet", etc. We had an attending who had failed their gen surg boards a number of times (was doing a subspecialty) and EVERYONE knew. I don't know if she found it embarassing but I thought it was a little odd that even the residents knew.

 

[ESU_MD]

WS is absolutely right- the hospital gossip can be very harmful- esp since most is behind your back. those who are not boarded are looked down on for sure

At my GS program, everyone knew who had failed the oral boards and were made fun of (behind their backs of course) On the other hand, it also could vindicate the weaker residents who DID pass their oral boards on the first attempt.

I dont think they report the number of times you failed, but alot of hospitals have it in their credentialing policy to obtain board certification within X number of years.

If you fail the orals more than 3 times, then you have to do some kind of remediation, which in some cases means repeating your chief year

 

[Yasergale]

Thanks for the responses guys. All the residents here knows who failed what from the previous years both old chiefs and current attendings. I don't think we make fun of them because anyone of us knows it could be one of us. Unfortunately, after looking at the ABS website and each programs pass rate, I find that academic centers do better and some community hospitals do ok. I realized that the community hospitals that do well are the ones spends a significant amount of time/money on just preparation for the boards (Ie sending the resident off for a review course and holding 2 mock orals/year etc etc). Of course, this is just a general observation, I could be wrong.

But nevertheless, I do find it a little relieving that the number of times you took it is not disclosed unless you choose to disclose it.