Georgetown vs. Albert Einstein: 72 hours to decide!

[mdace]

Hi Everyone,

I realize there are a ton of threads like this and they can get a bit crazy, but I figured I'd make one just to get peoples opinions and perspectives. I was accepted to AECOM awhile back and yesterday I was accepted to Georgetown off the waitlist. I really liked both schools, which is making this decision so much harder. I'm from CA, but really want to be on the east coast so this has worked out nicely. Ultimately, I think I want to specialize in trauma or pediatric surgery. I would like to get peoples opinions about curriculum, clinical rotations, research opportunities and school atmosphere. Any help is greatly appreciated.

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[unepoire]

I don't have a whole lot to say on the subject, but I interviewed and was accepted at both institutions, so here's my perspective:

Assuming the cost is more or less the same, I would go for Georgetown. Their match list was ridiculous, and especially for the specialties that you listed - Gtown really emphasized how well respected they are in the minds of residency directors, even if their research ranking isn't so hot.

What I found to be negatives about Georgetown were:
1. First years seemed REALLY stressed. More so than the students at AECOM. I don't know if it's because of the whole SMP program that exists there, but the environment just didn't seem super collaborative. My host even said that most of her classmates were stressed out.
2. State of facilities: Georgetown Ugrad is beautiful, but Georgetown Med? Not as much. I wanted to be comfortable in the lecture halls, and the lecture halls were not impressive. The hospital system, too, was less modern than I expected, but I'm coming from undergrad at Pitt, so I realize I'm ridiculously spoiled by UPMC.

Those were the major negatives for me at Georgetown. However (and I know that everyone says this in their secondary), their philosophy resonated very strongly with me, and it's clear that their method of education is driven by it. It was very appealing, and ultimately, I chose another school whose educational philosophy seemed to be the most "inspiring" and in line with my own goals.

After interviewing at AECOM, I was not impressed at all, expect for the food, to be honest. The students seemed quite happy, though, and perhaps I was judging by the quality of the interview day, which I found to be the least inspiring of all the interviews I went on. Also, I was not a fan of the location. I don't really remember too much more about it to be honest, but when I was accepted, I withdrew very quickly because I knew I wouldn't personally be happy there.

I don't actually know for sure, but overall I think that Georgetown is a much better place to train, especially given your ultimate goals for your career.

Good luck with your decision! Also, my MDApps account has more of my impressions of both schools (though I've recounted the main points here). I don't know how helpful that was, seeing as I have no actual connection/real experience with either school, but there you have my $0.02

 

[MoreSoupPlease]

Personally, I think AECOM is by far your best bet, especially if you want to live on the east coast. I regret withdrawing from there last year, mainly because every student that I've met loves the place and they truly do care a lot about you as a person and student.

My impression of Georgetown was along the lines of what unepoire said..very competitive and unfriendly. It does have a good match list but I think AECOM is arguably even better.

Good luck wherever you decide. PS im from Cali too and NY >>> DC

 

[premed0]

its all about the match list... this is what ultimately matters and is the ultimate reflection of all other factors. In my opinion, I'd go for Georgetown hands down.

 

[HopefulMD23]

If you remember your interview day at AECOM this should be a no brainer. While Georgetown put effort into making the day a pleasant and enjoyable experience, AECOM couldn't care less. Do you really want to live in the Bronx for four year dealing with administrators and deans as unfriendly and rude as that? Georgetown also has a better reputation.

 

[DJtiesto]

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[bobow98]

Yes, go to Georgetown and let the people who are excited about Einstein go to Einstein. Keep in mind these people may be on waitlists, gunning for a waitlist spot too.

 

[zebalong]

OP if you have any questions im a first year at einstein/ well a second year in 24 hours. Please feel free to pm me.

From Cali, absolutely happy with my decision to come here.

Einstein's admin is really good to us here, teaching is the priority here and it couldn't be any more stress free then it already is. Every class gets their own say and can make petitions to admin to get things changed. I've mentioned it before but the second years wanted their schedule changed for more board studying time so they got it (an extra 3 weeks), we've changed this year everything from exam review policies to gym hours. This is a place really for your class to make their own.

I know the interview day is a bit lacking, but the day to day activities of this place are really awesome.

As a general rule, match lists are a horrible way to choose a school. Like other ppl have said it depends on the class make-up and what THEY want to match in. there are some ppl who could do amazingly well in the match in any competitive speciality who simply choose to do somethign not competitive. Just because you score a 260 doesn't mean you should match into ortho, ent, derm ...ect. match in a career that FITs you. It doesn't do you any good in matching into something that in the moment is desirable, but you absolutely hate. An example comes to mind is cardio-thor surgery, or an allergy fellowship, both used to be super competitive, now not so much.

Einstein, like most allopathic schools, will get you anywhere you need to go provided you put in the work to get there.

 

[lpmarcus010]

If you remember your interview day at AECOM this should be a no brainer. While Georgetown put effort into making the day a pleasant and enjoyable experience, AECOM couldn't care less. Do you really want to live in the Bronx for four year dealing with administrators and deans as unfriendly and rude as that? Georgetown also has a better reputation.

Georgetown does not have a better reputation IN MEDICINE. G'town has a super stellar law school, business school, undergrad, yet people just assume this translates into their med school as well. If you talk to physicians in the academic community, no one has anything shining to say about G'town, but I know a few physicians that think very highly of AE. Most of my research is in oncology (both bench and clinical), so my input may be skewed, but Montefiore is highly regarded in the cancer therapy realm.

 

[Gtwn2010]

Given the choice myself I would have probably been inclined to pick Georgetown based on location and philosophy of the school. I went to Georgetown University for undergrad and love the school and LOVE DC. However, having said that, many of my closest friends who went with me to Georgetown for undergrad and also loved it go to med school there as M1s/M2s now and are MISERABLE. My friends were so negative when they relayed stories about the school to me that I actually withdrew my application(probably prematurely) to georgetown once I began receiving interview invites elsewhere. The rumors of competitiveness and stressful environment are definitely true. The facilities are rundown and the grading scheme doesn't seem to foster collaboration amongst the students. These are firsthand accounts from current students I know there but take them with a grain of salt since they are still generalizations and anecdotal. On the flip side I do know a couple kids who are actually quite happy at Georgetown med so it varies between individuals obviously.

I don't know much about AECOM as I don't know any students there and I was rejected there pre-interview. Still, based on it's more highly regarded reputation and a glance at this thread I would lean towards saying AECOM is a better bet than Georgetown. Good luck!

 

[mdeast]

I don't have very fond feelings for AECOM. I found the students very happy there...but the hospital and facilities run down and old, the location boring and a bit isolating. There was a beautiful new research building that med students weren't even allowed to study in. However, from a med school perspective....the class there seemed laid back, there was a P/F system, people definitely seemed more relax than students at other medical schools, there was cheeeeap housing and I thought it was really nice that AECOM would pay for your MPH if you wanted to get it. The administration seemed disorganized, but at least friendly (and verrrrry Jewish).

As for Georgetown- I found the students stressed out/competitive. I was also unhappy about the fact that post-bacs took classes with med students (i.e. your lectures could be 300 kids). I feel like paying that much for med school should constitute better personal attention. All my tour guides could talk about was how they studied til 1 AM every night. Currently finishing up my first year at another school and looking back, I have no idea what they were doing studying that much as a first year. It's relatively easy to get by just cramming for exams, and it's fine because most first year material isn't stressed on boards anyway. I also found the facilities run down, classrooms a little depressing, bad library and study spaces, and the hospital very lackluster. Research isn't a focus at Georgetown, and the Jesuit influences seemed odd- I found it strange that they would mention "we don't perform abortions in our hospital" on a medical school interview day. Having said that, being connected to Georgetown (and the social opportunity to meet other grad students), the accessibility of DC, and access to NIH was definitely cool.

I'd probably choose AECOM if you more heavily value your medical education. Georgetown if you more heavily value location.

 

[zebalong]

Agreed, first year med school has been relatively chill. NO way should someone be studying to 1am on a regular basis. For crammers they might study until 1a a couple days prior to the test, but not regularly.

I sort of did the "review the lecture the day it was given" plan and so far it has worked out great for me. Prior to exams i don't need to cram.. like now i have a final tommorrow but im going to go to the gym, watch a movie and start packing to head home!

For me, any place where I would feel the need to be super competitive and constantly stressed I would stay FAR away from, b/c like mdeast mentioned, its simply does NOT pay off - not even with boards since boards emphasizes big picture over small details.

 

[dbeast]

I loved Einstein while I was there for my interview. Fantastic clinical network, p/f curriculum, and insanely cheap student housing (think of it as a ~10k/year scholarship compared to housing in DC... yes there really is that big of a difference). It's just this one glaring problem of living in a small, residential neighborhood in the Bronx with a random medical center. It's a bit of an effort to get anywhere fun, which unfortunately seems like you're pretty isolated to all med school all the time. But with the right combination of patience and luck, you'll rotate through Beth Israel and you're living in Manhattan for basically free 3rd year. On the other hand, a good friend interviewed at Georgetown and had a similarly negative experience as has been mentioned here before (competitive, weird administration), along with it being one of the most expensive schools in the country, Einstein seems like the better choice.

 

[blackbird11384]

As a Georgetown 3rd year, let me reply to some of the claims floating around this thread.

SMP/Big class: Within the first week of classes, the class attendance will drop from 300ish (entire SMP class + entire med class) to 150 to even less. There will never be a shortage of seats in the lecture hall. Your grades as a medical student are not affected in any way by the SMP students. Their curve depends on the medical student's performance, that is the only connection. They don't even take all of the first year classes. The classes are surprisingly isolated.

Match List: Georgetown has a very strong match list year after year showing two impressive trends 1) matching into competitive specialties at great institutions and 2) match students all across the USA. I bet the AE match is great as well, but it is probably is more restricted to the NY area than Georgetown's list due to a lot of its students wanting to stay in NY. I tend to think that a match list that sends its students all across the USA is a good thing, since alumni are being spread out and you will run into them at every turn. Plus, while I agree that a match list represents the whim of the class and which specialties they decided to pursue, having lots of students match in competitive specialties once again gets many of our alumni spread out into competitive specialties which can come in handy when you are interviewing and networking.

Facilities: I have never seen AE facilities. Georgetown's aren't great, I admit it, but they work well for what you will need. The hospital isn't the most fancy I have ever seen, but they do have a lot of high-tech gadgets and equipment to make up for the older exterior. You can also always study at the undergrad side of the campus.

Competition: All this talk about competition is the biggest piece of BS i have ever seen. Maybe my class is the only chill class, but my classmates have never shown gunner-like competition. There is a select % of the class trying to do very well in everything in hopes of match at a top top program (maybe 10% of the class), and so some people will hog a lot of honors. But the honors hogs don't do it in a malicious obnoxious way. You are in medical school, you are expected to work hard. If you want honors in everything it is doable with hard work. If you are happy with P and HPs, good, so is the majority of the class. Classmates have always been willing to pass around notes and study guides to the entire class. And many students study in groups.

P/F curriculum vs. P/HP/H : First and second year grades matter for one thing only, AOA. AE may have P/F, but I can assure you that they are still internally ranking you so that they can include that in the AOA selection process (at least, most medical school use some combo of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year grades to determine AOA). The Georgetown grading scheme just tells you how you are actually doing in the class. The AE curriculum just hides it. But if you get really anxious over a few P's, then maybe a P/F curriculum is better for you. I personally like the grading scheme at Georgetown, because it lets you know if you need to work harder or less hard to get where you want to be in the class.

I am free to answer any questions about Georgetown.
About Me:
Georgetown MS3 going into Radiology.

 

[zebalong]

As a Georgetown 3rd year, let me reply to some of the claims floating around this thread.

SMP/Big class: Within the first week of classes, the class attendance will drop from 300ish (entire SMP class + entire med class) to 150 to even less. There will never be a shortage of seats in the lecture hall. Your grades as a medical student are not affected in any way by the SMP students. Their curve depends on the medical student's performance, that is the only connection. They don't even take all of the first year classes. The classes are surprisingly isolated.

Match List: Georgetown has a very strong match list year after year showing two impressive trends 1) matching into competitive specialties at great institutions and 2) match students all across the USA. I bet the AE match is great as well, but it is probably is more restricted to the NY area than Georgetown's list due to a lot of its students wanting to stay in NY. I tend to think that a match list that sends its students all across the USA is a good thing, since alumni are being spread out and you will run into them at every turn. Plus, while I agree that a match list represents the whim of the class and which specialties they decided to pursue, having lots of students match in competitive specialties once again gets many of our alumni spread out into competitive specialties which can come in handy when you are interviewing and networking.

Facilities: I have never seen AE facilities. Georgetown's aren't great, I admit it, but they work well for what you will need. The hospital isn't the most fancy I have ever seen, but they do have a lot of high-tech gadgets and equipment to make up for the older exterior. You can also always study at the undergrad side of the campus.

Competition: All this talk about competition is the biggest piece of BS i have ever seen. Maybe my class is the only chill class, but my classmates have never shown gunner-like competition. There is a select % of the class trying to do very well in everything in hopes of match at a top top program (maybe 10% of the class), and so some people will hog a lot of honors. But the honors hogs don't do it in a malicious obnoxious way. You are in medical school, you are expected to work hard. If you want honors in everything it is doable with hard work. If you are happy with P and HPs, good, so is the majority of the class. Classmates have always been willing to pass around notes and study guides to the entire class. And many students study in groups.

P/F curriculum vs. P/HP/H : First and second year grades matter for one thing only, AOA. AE may have P/F, but I can assure you that they are still internally ranking you so that they can include that in the AOA selection process (at least, most medical school use some combo of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year grades to determine AOA). The Georgetown grading scheme just tells you how you are actually doing in the class. The AE curriculum just hides it. But if you get really anxious over a few P's, then maybe a P/F curriculum is better for you. I personally like the grading scheme at Georgetown, because it lets you know if you need to work harder or less hard to get where you want to be in the class.

I am free to answer any questions about Georgetown.
About Me:
Georgetown MS3 going into Radiology.

Just FYI we aren't internally ranked at all the first two years.. there is no hiding, it just isn't there. Junior AOA is only dependent upon clerkship grades.

 

[mdeast]

Just FYI we aren't internally ranked at all the first two years.. there is no hiding, it just isn't there. Junior AOA is only dependent upon clerkship grades.

Key distinction to make. No rankings first two years= you can "just pass" and and not worry= ability to blow off med school curriculum courses (we can sometimes be a little BS) and just study what you really need to know for boards = better Step 1 scores = better residency.

 

[blackbird11384]

Just FYI we aren't internally ranked at all the first two years.. there is no hiding, it just isn't there. Junior AOA is only dependent upon clerkship grades.

Touché...touché.

Well I found Georgetown's curriculum very good for overall board prep, and many of my friends and I who did well on Step 1 agree that the most important thing for doing well on step 1 at Georgetown is doing well first and second year. Our class Step 1 avg was around 232-234.

But yes, an unranked P/F curriculum sounds pretty nice. If you are Simone who is very internally driven you will flourish anywhere. I am pretty lazy and need my grades to drive my studying and intensity. I probably would have floundered a bit with a P/F curriculum.

 

[zebalong]

Touché...touché.

Well I found Georgetown's curriculum very good for overall board prep, and many of my friends and I who did well on Step 1 agree that the most important thing for doing well on step 1 at Georgetown is doing well first and second year. Our class Step 1 avg was around 232-234.

But yes, an unranked P/F curriculum sounds pretty nice. If you are Simone who is very internally driven you will flourish anywhere. I am pretty lazy and need my grades to drive my studying and intensity. I probably would have floundered a bit with a P/F curriculum.

I completely agree, the people who do well at any given school will do well no matter where you put them. OP good luck with your choice, either way you're going to be at a great med school in the US and have the chance to really shine if you put in the work to get yourself a great residency.

 

[moto_za]

OP:

Do yourself a favor and go to AE. I have not heard good things from students who go to Gtown med.

 

[mdace]

Thank you all for your responses. Definitely didn't think I would get this much response. I'm still trying to decide where to go. Blackbird11384 I just sent you a message, though, I'm not actually sure if it went through so if you could let me know that would be great. Thanks.

 

[PlacentaSac]

I wanted to add my two cents, as I am a Georgetown student that was also accepted into AE last year. I absolutely love Georgetown and I am very glad that I chose it over AE. Let me give my reasons as to why I feel Georgetown is a better school, but first let me just say that the most important factor should be where YOU feel the most comfortable. However, this is what I personally think of the schools.

Sure, students at Georgetown may seem a bit more stressed and I feel that is completely due to the fact that we are NOT on a Pass/Fail system like AE. So our class averages are crazy. We have to study very hard to make sure we make at least class average to get a PASS. So if you're shooting for HP or H, then you will study crazy hard. Anyone who has been at Georgetown in the last three years knows how hard our Anatomy is first year. The professor who teaches it loves to make the exams close to impossible to ace (as seen by the class average on them). I feel that we are all close though and we have many social events that bring us together. I also feel that the professors are very supportive and are looking out for the students.

I feel this leads into our mach list. Some students think this shouldn't matter and that’s their opinion, but I for one think it is a very important factor. I want to know that I can get into ideally a program of my choice and State of choosing. Faculty here make incredible efforts to make that happen. They build relationships and the Georgetown name is very strong in the Clinical world of medicine. Georgetown has a very strong Ortho department that prides itself on getting students into that specialty and that's why we matched so many last year. The classes are highly competitive to better train students for USMLE. Just my feeling. Students here overall match into top Residencies throughout the US. This has been the case consistently for the last few years that I have been keeping track. That was a major selling point for me.

The lecture halls may not be that impressive, however they are remodeling them this summer and are spending 40 million on a state of the art amphitheater style lecture hall in the Med/Dent building (C104 and C105) for those that know the building. My point is that this year they are going to spend a lot of money to make the facilities really nice.

Also the Dean has appointed a new Director of research to recruit new researchers and augment our research facilities. We received an 80 million dollar endowment from one person alone last year for the medical school. I feel that this new approach is really going to get Georgetown back on the map in terms of research. So it is a great time to get into the school. I predict our US News rankings (if that is important to you) will be much better next year for this reason.

I did not like that AE is in the Bronx, even if it is Northern. The facilities just seemed old to me. Georgetown is a beautiful neighborhood and much better place to spend four years in my opinion. One thing that I will say that I liked about AE over Georgetown is that there seemed to be more money for students. It seemed that the school was willing to pay for projects and support students with on campus housing. There is no love, financially at Georgetown. No housing, no parking, no printing (we went digital last year) = No love.

Lastly, I will say that one of my good friends just graduated from AE and felt that his experience was just okay. He did not match in what he wanted and had a great USMLE Step 1 and clerkship reviews. I understand that this is an isolated case, but I just wanted to mention the other side of the coin. I just want to stress that both schools are great and you really can't go wrong with either. It's a great position to be in, but my opinion is the Georgetown is a much better choice and name.

 

[moto_za]

AE's match list:

http://www.einstein.yu.edu/admissions/page.aspx?id=29555&ekmensel=15074e5e_1106_1116_29555_13

 

[mdace]

Thank you all very much for taking the time to give me your opinions and perspectives, but I've made my decision to attend Georgetown next year!

 

[chingster]

Congrats! I've heard great things about both schools--just know you won't regret your decision.