getting an anesthesia spot in USAF

[jack01]

I am in my intern year at a civilian hospital and will be applying to Anesthesia this fall with the AF board. Do I have much of a chance to get a spot. I have step scores in the 220's, I was around 30 of 94 in my class, and I do have one published article in a journal. Do I have a chance to get a spot or am I probably going to get Flight Surgery. I am just wondering what anyone knows about the competiveness of gas in the USAF.
Thanks,
jack01

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[Galo]

READ THIS!!!!!!!:


http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=298854

Its at the very top of the stickies.

Good luck.

 

[sethco]

You never know which way the board is going to go. I have been non-selected 2 years running with top 1/5 of my class, multiple publications, 225 on Step I and 240 on Step II. I guess the one thing I was missing was military experience. I am going to be applying for a July 2008 spot. At that time I would have served 2 years as a flight surgeon. Hopefully this will be enough. If not I am giving up on applying and just riding out my commitment. The unfortuanate part is they keep on cutting the residency spots and now there are only 10 spots. Anyway, good luck in the upcoming match. Hope all goes well friend.

I am in my intern year at a civilian hospital and will be applying to Anesthesia this fall with the AF board. Do I have much of a chance to get a spot. I have step scores in the 220's, I was around 30 of 94 in my class, and I do have one published article in a journal. Do I have a chance to get a spot or am I probably going to get Flight Surgery. I am just wondering what anyone knows about the competiveness of gas in the USAF.
Thanks,
jack01

 

[jack01]

Sethco, are you applying to Anesthesia. If not what is your specialty? Basically there is no way to know what they are going to do and planning on flight surgery is probably a good idea.

 

[Heeed!]

I am in my intern year at a civilian hospital and will be applying to Anesthesia this fall with the AF board. Do I have much of a chance to get a spot. I have step scores in the 220's, I was around 30 of 94 in my class, and I do have one published article in a journal. Do I have a chance to get a spot or am I probably going to get Flight Surgery. I am just wondering what anyone knows about the competiveness of gas in the USAF.
Thanks,
jack01

No, you will not match!!! Don't even apply!!!!
Just jokin'. But I want one of those spots, too. Good luck!

 

[jack01]

HEEED, are you applying to civilian programs? Some people have said don't even bother applying to civilian programs for a PGY2 spot and I am wondering if it is worth wasting vacation time and money on interviews if it is literally impossible to get a civilian spot with out prior military experience. Just wondering what your plans are. Are you applying for a PGY1 or PGY2?

 

[Heeed!]

HEEED, are you applying to civilian programs? Some people have said don't even bother applying to civilian programs for a PGY2 spot and I am wondering if it is worth wasting vacation time and money on interviews if it is literally impossible to get a civilian spot with out prior military experience. Just wondering what your plans are. Are you applying for a PGY1 or PGY2?

Well....you raise a good point. I had never considered NOT applying to civilian programs but I just reread the "Flight Doc" memo we were sent. It says that policy won't affect those who match to categorical positions....but doesn't mention advanced spots. But I was under the impression that if you match to an advanced spot + a TY/Prelim year, you were still good to go. The IFB says there are 5 deferred spots for 48 months. Wouldn't I still be gone from the AF for 48 months if I match to a civilian advanced spot and secure an intern year somewhere??? It's all the same to me...hopefully it will be the same for the AF. I have a hard time believing that I could get a deferred spot for gas, match to an advanced position somewhere and a secure a prelim year somewhere else, and the AF saying, "Sorry...you can't actually have that deferred spot because you didn't match to a CATEGORICAL gas position." At any rate, I'm going to find out the answer to that question and I'll post the answer next week.

 

[jack01]

I am currently in a deferred PGY-1 TY intern position, and I think that I can only apply for a PGY-2 position which the AF only has 6 total (2 SAUSCHEC and 4 deferred). I was wondering at which level will you be applying? Are you a PGY-1 currently or a 4th year med student. If you are a 4th year med student then your chances seem better than mine and we are not competing for the same positions! Have you rotated at Wilford Hall, if not are you going to and when?
Also, what flight doc memo are you referring to because I have not gotten it?!?

 

[la dottoressa]

I am in my intern year at a civilian hospital and will be applying to Anesthesia this fall with the AF board. Do I have much of a chance to get a spot. I have step scores in the 220's, I was around 30 of 94 in my class, and I do have one published article in a journal. Do I have a chance to get a spot or am I probably going to get Flight Surgery. I am just wondering what anyone knows about the competiveness of gas in the USAF.
Thanks,
jack01

Pretty competitive...Did you try and get anesthesia out of med school? Have you interviewed at the active duty program (SAUSHEC) in San Antonio? You are potentially more competitive than a med student because you are an intern (extra points) and could get bonus points for your publication. Hang in there

 

[jack01]

I rotated at Wilford Hall in Surgery last fall. After the birth of my son I had a change of heart about surgery and decided to apply for anesthesia. So I did apply for it last year but I knew I had no chance of getting a spot because I did not even interview at Wilford Hall. This time around I hope that I am competitive. I will be doing an away rotation at Wilford Hall soon and will interview at that time. I guess we will see come December!

 

[la dottoressa]

I rotated at Wilford Hall in Surgery last fall. After the birth of my son I had a change of heart about surgery and decided to apply for anesthesia. So I did apply for it last year but I knew I had no chance of getting a spot because I did not even interview at Wilford Hall. This time around I hope that I am competitive. I will be doing an away rotation at Wilford Hall soon and will interview at that time. I guess we will see come December!

The interview is important... It looks like there are 4 civilian deferred slots being offered as well--are you going into the match for civilian programs too?
If you get selected--you may be offered the civilian opportunity...

 

[jack01]

I would definately prefer a military residency position because I am interested in staying in the military. But I would be thrilled to get one of the 4 civillian spots. I am applying at civilian programs as well. I am interviewing at UT in San Antonio while I rotate at Wilford Hall. I am also interviewing in Galveston as well as a couple of other places. I am limited on how many places I can interview because my intern program gives use 2 weeks vacation for the whole year which I will be using for interviews.

 

[Heeed!]

I am currently in a deferred PGY-1 TY intern position, and I think that I can only apply for a PGY-2 position which the AF only has 6 total (2 SAUSCHEC and 4 deferred). I was wondering at which level will you be applying? Are you a PGY-1 currently or a 4th year med student. If you are a 4th year med student then your chances seem better than mine and we are not competing for the same positions! Have you rotated at Wilford Hall, if not are you going to and when?
Also, what flight doc memo are you referring to because I have not gotten it?!?

I'll be applying for the PG1 spots...so we're not competing for the same spots. I'll be rotating through WH in October. I'll post the Flight Doc memo here, but it doesn't apply to you:

DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE
HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE
WASHINGTON DC
30 May 2006
MEMORANDUM FOR OBLIGATED AIR FORCE OFFICERS (4TH YEAR MEDICAL
STUDENTS) APPLYING TO THE 2006 JOINT SERVICE
GRADUATE MEDICAL EDUCATION SELECTION BOARD (JSGMESB)
FROM: HQ USAF/SG
1780 Air Force Pentagon
Washington, DC 20330-1780

SUBJECT: Critical Shortfall in AFMS Flight Surgeons - Interim Policy

The Air Force is facing a critical shortfall in aerospace medicine. We are having
difficulty meeting the operational needs of our war fighting squadrons. Flight Surgeons provide much of the first-line support to our flyers and their families. Active Duty physicians in specialties that are already optimally manned have been actively encouraged to consider a career broadening tour as an operational flight surgeon. In spite of our efforts the shortfall remains.

We will be re-instating a policy utilized in the mid 1990’s in order to ameliorate this
situation,. Under this policy, individuals who apply for and/or are selected for a PGY-1 year only will automatically be required to complete the six-week Aerospace Medicine Primary course and a two-year tour as a Flight Surgeon immediately following completion of their PGY-1 year. This policy will apply to individuals who meet the 2006 JSGMESB and is not waiverable. Individuals who are unable to pass a Flying Class II physical will be assigned to a primary care environment for a two-year period. This requirement must be completed before proceeding with the residency training of your choice.

This policy will be in effect for the current year only unless specifically extended. It will
not affect individuals who apply for and/or who are selected for a categorical residency program. It will not affect individuals applying for fellowship training. In order to obtain subsequent graduate medical training you will need to apply to a future JSGMESB. Successful completion of an operational tour almost always makes an otherwise well qualified candidate even more competitive. This often translates into a significant benefit when applying for highly competitive residency programs.

I regret having to institute these limitations, but providing operational support to the
ongoing war on terror is vital to the security of our nation and our beneficiaries. If you have any questions regarding this policy, my points of contact are Colonel Molly Hall Chief Physician Education Branch at DSN 665-2638, Commercial (210) 565-2638 or her deputy, Mrs. Geiger at 1800 531-5800, Commercial (210) 565-2638.
GEORGE PEACH TAYLOR, JR.
Lieutenant General, USAF, MC, CFS
Surgeon General

 

[i want out]

I'll be applying for the PG1 spots...so we're not competing for the same spots. I'll be rotating through WH in October. I'll post the Flight Doc memo here, but it doesn't apply to you:

DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE
HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE
WASHINGTON DC
30 May 2006
MEMORANDUM FOR OBLIGATED AIR FORCE OFFICERS (4TH YEAR MEDICAL
STUDENTS) APPLYING TO THE 2006 JOINT SERVICE
GRADUATE MEDICAL EDUCATION SELECTION BOARD (JSGMESB)
FROM: HQ USAF/SG
1780 Air Force Pentagon
Washington, DC 20330-1780

SUBJECT: Critical Shortfall in AFMS Flight Surgeons - Interim Policy

The Air Force is facing a critical shortfall in aerospace medicine. We are having
difficulty meeting the operational needs of our war fighting squadrons. Flight Surgeons provide much of the first-line support to our flyers and their families. Active Duty physicians in specialties that are already optimally manned have been actively encouraged to consider a career broadening tour as an operational flight surgeon. In spite of our efforts the shortfall remains.

We will be re-instating a policy utilized in the mid 1990’s in order to ameliorate this
situation,. Under this policy, individuals who apply for and/or are selected for a PGY-1 year only will automatically be required to complete the six-week Aerospace Medicine Primary course and a two-year tour as a Flight Surgeon immediately following completion of their PGY-1 year. This policy will apply to individuals who meet the 2006 JSGMESB and is not waiverable. Individuals who are unable to pass a Flying Class II physical will be assigned to a primary care environment for a two-year period. This requirement must be completed before proceeding with the residency training of your choice.

This policy will be in effect for the current year only unless specifically extended. It will
not affect individuals who apply for and/or who are selected for a categorical residency program. It will not affect individuals applying for fellowship training. In order to obtain subsequent graduate medical training you will need to apply to a future JSGMESB. Successful completion of an operational tour almost always makes an otherwise well qualified candidate even more competitive. This often translates into a significant benefit when applying for highly competitive residency programs.

I regret having to institute these limitations, but providing operational support to the
ongoing war on terror is vital to the security of our nation and our beneficiaries. If you have any questions regarding this policy, my points of contact are Colonel Molly Hall Chief Physician Education Branch at DSN 665-2638, Commercial (210) 565-2638 or her deputy, Mrs. Geiger at 1800 531-5800, Commercial (210) 565-2638.
GEORGE PEACH TAYLOR, JR.
Lieutenant General, USAF, MC, CFS
Surgeon General

It will be interesting to see how quickly this adversely effects AF HPSP recruiting. Since they were the only service to even come close to giving away all their 4 yr HPSP's.

They will likely join The Army and Navy with dwindling numbers of folks willing to sign on for the "GMO recruitment program" (aka HPSP).

i want out

 

[jack01]

I will also be at Wilford Hall in October. So I guess we will get to meet! It will probably be pretty crowded that month. But atleast we will have the opportunity to audition for a position. San Antonio is a great place to be, especially in October! I think the new program director is expected to be there by September.

 

[delicatefade]

If I'm reading that memo correctly, if you are AF and were counting on doing your residency, fulfilling your obligation, and getting out ASAP, the AF essentially is forcing you to stay in longer, because although a 2 year flight surgery tour will count toward some of your commitment, you'll still acquire more commitment when you finally start your residency.

I wonder when they will realize that in their short term fix to this problem of not enough flight surgeons (ie - forcing people into a flight surgery tour), they will actually make the problem worse in the long run because likely fewer people will sign up for AF HPSP once word of this gets out.

 

[Heeed!]

I have officially verified that if you get a deferred gas spot, match to an advanced civilian program, and also obtain a TY/Prelim year, you are good to go as far as the AF is concerned.

 

[MedicalCorpse]

I have officially verified that if you get a deferred gas spot, match to an advanced civilian program, and also obtain a TY/Prelim year, you are good to go as far as the AF is concerned.

Um, here's a helpful hint for your anesthesiology interview:

Don't refer to it as a "gas spot", lest you be offered some Pepto Bismol(R) and the door, not necessarily in that order.

You should probably practice typing "anesthesiology": yes, it is a big word, but it is the mot juste.

Another hint: We are no more "MDAs" than a cardiologist is an "MDC" or a surgeon an "MDS". This verbiage is anathema maranatha to 90% of anesthesiologists ("Muscular Dystrophy Association? Magen David Adom?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magen_David_Adom). It is used by CRNAs constantly as a false means of equalizing our roles in the military...in my civilian practice, I have mentioned to the CRNAs with whom I work that I detest that acronym, and they immediately ceased using it in my presence out of respect for my wishes. In return, I never refer to them as just "nurses", but give them respect in return, because we are a TEAM (mandated by state and Federal law in the civilian world).

Verbum sat sapienti est.

--
Rob Jones, M.D.
Diplomate, American Board of Anesthesiology, 1995
Ex-LtCol, USAF, MC
http://www.medicalcorpse.com

 

[Heeed!]

Wow, there's a lot of Latin in your reply. And getting out after 19 years...you must have been slightly irritated.

 

[sethco]

OK, so the good news is that this statement is false. Col Hall (Sits on the JSGME bard and sets policies) said we will not incur additional time for doing a residency. As an example, since I was not selected for GME, I have to do a minimum of 2 years of flight surgery. Then I am given the option of entering residency or finishing my last 2 years as a flight surgeon. If I wanted to enter residency after 2 years, I would apply for a position now. If selected, I would then complete 3 years of anesthesia and then serve 2 years in the military as an Anesthesiologist. Keep in mind, this only applies if I would go into a civilian residency. If I wanted to do a civilian sponsored or a military residency, then I would owe 3 years after residency. The same applies for fellowships. If I did a civilian after residency, I would only owe 2 years. If I did a civilian sponsored or military fellowship following residency, I would owe 4 years. Hope everyone understand the distinction. I would be glad to answer any further questions, but not for a little while as I am completing my SERE training this week. Good luck to everybody with the JSGME.

If I'm reading that memo correctly, if you are AF and were counting on doing your residency, fulfilling your obligation, and getting out ASAP, the AF essentially is forcing you to stay in longer, because although a 2 year flight surgery tour will count toward some of your commitment, you'll still acquire more commitment when you finally start your residency.

I wonder when they will realize that in their short term fix to this problem of not enough flight surgeons (ie - forcing people into a flight surgery tour), they will actually make the problem worse in the long run because likely fewer people will sign up for AF HPSP once word of this gets out.

 

[MedicalCorpse]

If I'm reading that memo correctly, if you are AF and were counting on doing your residency, fulfilling your obligation, and getting out ASAP, the AF essentially is forcing you to stay in longer, because although a 2 year flight surgery tour will count toward some of your commitment, you'll still acquire more commitment when you finally start your residency.

I wonder when they will realize that in their short term fix to this problem of not enough flight surgeons (ie - forcing people into a flight surgery tour), they will actually make the problem worse in the long run because likely fewer people will sign up for AF HPSP once word of this gets out.

1997 all over again. They killed an entire "crop" of anesthesiologists that year (to use Matrix terminology). Surprisingly, 4 years later, we found ourselves critically short at Andrews: went from 10 docs to 2 clinical docs (plus one O-6 who spent more duty time at home than at work).

The idiots just won't learn from the mistakes of the past...

--
R

 

[orbitsurgMD]

1997 all over again. They killed an entire "crop" of anesthesiologists that year (to use Matrix terminology). Surprisingly, 4 years later, we found ourselves critically short at Andrews: went from 10 docs to 2 clinical docs (plus one O-6 who spent more duty time at home than at work).

The idiots just won't learn from the mistakes of the past...

--
R

If you go the way of FS, one command you will learn: eject! eject! eject!.