GI Pathology Job Market

[KeratinPearls]

I am interested in GI and was thinking about pursuing research projects. I was wondering if anyone in the field can tell me how the job market is. I've been hearing of programs looking to start a GI fellowship in their res programs (also been hearing the same for dermpath). If so, I would think the market would get saturated sooner or later.

Thanks!

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[pathstudent]

I am interested in GI and was thinking about pursuing research projects. I was wondering if anyone in the field can tell me how the job market is. I've been hearing of programs looking to start a GI fellowship in their res programs (also been hearing the same for dermpath). If so, I would think the market would get saturated sooner or later.

Thanks!

We get forwarded emails from GI path recruiters every couple weeks. Me thinks the market is very strong.

 

[multiplemyeloma]

I am interested in a GI fellowship as well, however, I don't think I am going to pursue it as my training program doesn't have one and I hear it is nearly impossible to get a spot as an external . Any thoughts on this?

 

[multiplemyeloma]

I meant, as an external candidate. On another note, is it true that cytopathology doesn't provide a good income because of the lack of immunostains which have higher remimbursements? Sorry for the post hijacking.

 

[Absidia]

Dude, if you enjoy GI path, go for it. There is no reason you can't get a fellowship spot somewhere if you do well in residency and get a couple publications.

Similarly, I would recommend not going into GI (or derm, or cyto, etc) basd on whether it is "hot" right now. The demand for specialties is volatile, and when you do a fellowship, you are going to be your practice's go-to person for that subject. If you don't really enjoy it, you're going to be miserable.

 

[2121115]

.... is it true that cytopathology doesn't provide a good income because of the lack of immunostains which have higher remimbursements? Sorry for the post hijacking.

Umm..... no.

 

[Dawn1980]

I am interested in a GI fellowship as well, however, I don't think I am going to pursue it as my training program doesn't have one and I hear it is nearly impossible to get a spot as an external . Any thoughts on this?

Don't be discouraged. It can definitely be accomplished. I applied as an external candidate and interviewed at 8 places. I did end up with a fellowship at a 'top' institution. However, I had to start research projects really early (April of my 1st year) and had to keep it going. It's tough but can be done.

 

[multiplemyeloma]

Thanks Dawn for your encouraging words. I have started thinking about my project as well, that is why I am trying to figure out which fellowships I am going to apply to, so as to tailor it to that. That is why I am wondering if I should go for a GI project or just forget about it.

 

[zao275]

I agree completely with Absidia's comments. I got a dermpath spot at an external and out of state institution (a good spot, too). I did spend a lot of time doing external rotations in dermpath, which helps a lot I think. And although I have been pretty involved in research, I still don't have any dermpath publications yet (just abstracts). Papers are important of course, but networking and doing electives are the most important thing (IMO). But bottom line: do it because you LOVE it. If you love a specialty and it is "hot" then all the better for you. But life will suck for you if you do something you hate just for money/good job market. Definitely do NOT give up on the idea of something you like just because it is supposedly so hard or "impossible" to get accepted into.

 

[Dawn1980]

Thanks Dawn for your encouraging words. I have started thinking about my project as well, that is why I am trying to figure out which fellowships I am going to apply to, so as to tailor it to that. That is why I am wondering if I should go for a GI project or just forget about it.

My two cents:

I encourage to do multiple projects. Don't feel the pressure to focus on pursuing only GI research projects. Do some GI, but pursue other non-GI projects as well. It's good to have a diverse research background. One of the most important things they like to see are abstracts converted into a manuscripts that become published in a respectable journal. It's all about the follow-through.

Also, I was asked by 90% of the interviewers whether I was going to USCAP. It was asked as if it was expected. LOL. I was rejected from USCAP my second year of residency. I was thanking God I was going my third year (during the interview trail) and it happened to be a lung project. They didn't seem bothered that it wasn't GI, nor that half of my projects were non-GI. They were just glad I was going to USCAP. For whatever that's worth.

 

[Dawn1980]

I agree completely with Absidia's comments. I got a dermpath spot at an external and out of state institution (a good spot, too). I did spend a lot of time doing external rotations in dermpath, which helps a lot I think. And although I have been pretty involved in research, I still don't have any dermpath publications yet (just abstracts). Papers are important of course, but networking and doing electives are the most important thing (IMO). But bottom line: do it because you LOVE it. If you love a specialty and it is "hot" then all the better for you. But life will suck for you if you do something you hate just for money/good job market. Definitely do NOT give up on the idea of something you like just because it is supposedly so hard or "impossible" to get accepted into.

Zao275 -- You are incredibly lucky you were able to do external rotations. Unfortunately, our program doesn't allow it (funding issues). I have to agree, besides publications, external rotations allowing to form strong connections is extremely helpful. Unfortunately, I had to interview "cold." LOL. I ended up in a very good spot as well by a stroke of luck.

 

[rollwithit]

I am interested in GI and was thinking about pursuing research projects. I was wondering if anyone in the field can tell me how the job market is. I've been hearing of programs looking to start a GI fellowship in their res programs (also been hearing the same for dermpath). If so, I would think the market would get saturated sooner or later.

Thanks!

Here's one job out there. No clue how representative this one is of other GI jobs. Relevant nonetheless. http://www.pathologyoutlines.com/jobs.html#gipath1

Looks like you won't go hungry in this field. But, you would have to work for the evil MBA owner!! NOOOO!!!

 

[zao275]

Zao275 -- You are incredibly lucky you were able to do external rotations. Unfortunately, our program doesn't allow it (funding issues).

Dawn1980, I absolutely agree with you; I feel lucky to be in this program every day! And I am glad you mentioned this, because I think it is a huge issue that many programs do not allow external rotations. This issue has come up in the Residents Forum multiple times. Some programs claim that CMS forbids this, but other programs thought otherwise. One of the members of the RFEC (Residents Forum Executive Committee) actually got in touch with CMS and found out that they have no rule against programs allowing residents to rotate externally because it all evens out in the end (that is my completely lay person interpretation of the gist of the issue). Now if a program decides it doesn't want to pay for the away rotation, it seems that that is their choice (but it can't be blamed on CMS). We are in the process of getting the official info out to all of the residency program directors so that we can hopefully encourage more programs to allow external rotations. I feel that it is truly detrimental to residents to not allow them to rotate at other institutions, especially when applying for fellowships. I hope that we can do something to change this. Stay tuned.

 

[zao275]

One of the most important things they like to see are abstracts converted into a manuscripts that become published in a respectable journal. It's all about the follow-through.

Although I do agree totally with Dawn1980's point, I will admit that my experience was a bit different. My program director has told me many times that I have too many abstracts but not enough papers and that fellowships would have issues with this. It is probably true, but in my case I had 15-20 abstracts with only 2-3 publications (and I was not 1st author on any of those, and none of the published papers were in dermpath) at the time I applied for dermpath. And I still got a spot (actually I was offered 2 different spots). Also, not a single person commented (at least not to my face) about not having enough papers published or about having too high of an abstractublished paper ration. I am not saying this to brag (actually it is kind of shameful that I have not finished more manuscripts!), but I want to put this info out there (despite any mocking it might incur) to help give you an idea of the wide variability that there is in the fellowship application process. I think it shows that no one should feel that they have no chance because of x, y, or z thing about their application/research/experience, etc. But it also probably means that no one should be too confident and think that they easily can get a spot just because they have 20 publications (but I am sure that helps!).

Hope this info is helpful to you. I am not trying to encourage any of you to be as much of a slacker as I have been in getting papers finished, but just know that there is still hope for you if your CV is not 10 pages long!

 

[green mantis]

Zao275 -- You are incredibly lucky you were able to do external rotations. Unfortunately, our program doesn't allow it (funding issues). I have to agree, besides publications, external rotations allowing to form strong connections is extremely helpful. Unfortunately, I had to interview "cold." LOL. I ended up in a very good spot as well by a stroke of luck.

The external rotation policy varies by institution. My residency program allowed 2 (1 each during 3rd & 4th year). It's a funding issue at some programs (like where I did my SP fellowship). However, it could potentially be a size issue at some hospitals. There may just not be enough residents for 1 to be away.

There are ways around it though. There are ASCP grants that allow you go to a select group of institutions for additional training in some subspecialty areas. I'm sure your program would let you go if you got one of these. Also, another option would just be to use vacation time. Some programs will allow you to lump your 4 weeks into a block, so that you're able to go elsewhere. There's no issues w/ funding when you do that.


----- Antony

 

[Dawn1980]

The external rotation policy varies by institution. My residency program allowed 2 (1 each during 3rd & 4th year). It's a funding issue at some programs (like where I did my SP fellowship). However, it could potentially be a size issue at some hospitals. There may just not be enough residents for 1 to be away.

There are ways around it though. There are ASCP grants that allow you go to a select group of institutions for additional training in some subspecialty areas. I'm sure your program would let you go if you got one of these. Also, another option would just be to use vacation time. Some programs will allow you to lump your 4 weeks into a block, so that you're able to go elsewhere. There's no issues w/ funding when you do that.


----- Antony

Good points. However, I felt stuck:

1) Our program doesn't have the numbers to let anyone go (as you mentioned as a possibility)

2) It's almost impossible to lump 4 weeks into a block (at our program) to do an external rotation. First of all, we are required to take vacation to go to meetings (i.e. USCAP, CAP, whatever) even if we are presenting. We are also required to take vacation for boards (yes, it sucks) and for board prep courses (i.e. ASCP, Osler) of which many in my program participate in their 3rd year. The anticipation of all these options can make it difficult to plan an external in advance....meanwhile you're managing a ton of projects (at least I was) as you're "gearing" up for the interview trail.

If you can do an external, I would recommend it like others on here. It's just not easy for everyone.

 

[Dawn1980]

Although I do agree totally with Dawn1980's point, I will admit that my experience was a bit different. My program director has told me many times that I have too many abstracts but not enough papers and that fellowships would have issues with this. It is probably true, but in my case I had 15-20 abstracts with only 2-3 publications (and I was not 1st author on any of those, and none of the published papers were in dermpath) at the time I applied for dermpath. And I still got a spot (actually I was offered 2 different spots). Also, not a single person commented (at least not to my face) about not having enough papers published or about having too high of an abstractublished paper ration. I am not saying this to brag (actually it is kind of shameful that I have not finished more manuscripts!), but I want to put this info out there (despite any mocking it might incur) to help give you an idea of the wide variability that there is in the fellowship application process. I think it shows that no one should feel that they have no chance because of x, y, or z thing about their application/research/experience, etc. But it also probably means that no one should be too confident and think that they easily can get a spot just because they have 20 publications (but I am sure that helps!).

Hope this info is helpful to you. I am not trying to encourage any of you to be as much of a slacker as I have been in getting papers finished, but just know that there is still hope for you if your CV is not 10 pages long!

I, too, had 20 projects....a little less than half that made it to manuscript/publication status by interview time of which I was first author for all but one. I had a different experience than Zao275 though. I was asked by three institutions (including the one I ended up at) why I hadn't "done more" and why I had "so many abstracts." I was actually in the middle of writing up the ones I first authored. I sort of gave up on the ones I wasn't first author, because those guys decided to move on to fellowships, jobs, other projects, etc.

Different experience.

 

[zao275]

I was asked by three institutions (including the one I ended up at) why I hadn't "done more" and why I had "so many abstracts."

Wow, I am sorry to hear that. That really sucks to be asked that when you have obviously been working very hard non-stop during your residency (and when you consider that you are applying practically at the end of PGY-2 year!!!). I guess I was just lucky!

 

[SLUsagar]

I meant, as an external candidate. On another note, is it true that cytopathology doesn't provide a good income because of the lack of immunostains which have higher remimbursements? Sorry for the post hijacking.

actually our cyto specimens are one of the most lucrative, in that if there's a cell block we frequently end up doing stains (hands down most common for our group is lung bx with tumor, CK5/6, p63, TTF1, CK7 for squam vs adeno differentiation). We typically bill an FNA interp, an FNA quick read/adequacy (we are almost always asked to do it), a ThinPrep, cell block, and IHCs x __.