Girlfriend and Pelvic Exam

[ruralsurg4now]

using antipsychotics as my induction agent

A popsicle stick?

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[Microglia]

Thanks for all the tips, guys.

Some stuff has happened in the past between me and her and with her family that has made her insecure. I

Did you cheat on her with a member of her family? Or in general? Cuz when I read that it sounded possible haha, in which case it makes sense that she's worried seeing as you've broken before.

If not and you've been nothing but loyal, then yea- she crazy.

Side note: sorry for re-railing the thread lol

 

[Chemdude]

I told my wife that the standardized patient I was working with farted in my face while I was looking through the speculum. She cracked up. It's not a big deal...

 

[touchpause13]

I told my wife that the standardized patient I was working with farted in my face while I was looking through the speculum. She cracked up. It's not a big deal...

This is hilarious.

 

[Rendar5]

Every time I rotate on trauma...

every single month I get to use something I learned in every section of medical school and every section that I didn't deal with in medical school...except PM&R, lol. tco, you get to do this because you went to medical school, not radiology school (meaning, until they can guarantee med students radiology residencies in 1st and 2nd year, all other fields of medicine are still back-ups). not to mention that ultrasound probes do go inside vaginas..like all the time.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Learned it. Dominated it. Will never use it again. I'm already through that part, ma'am. Now, I'm championing for everyone else who yet has to experience useless, waste of time rotations. Then again, I'm sure Osler would think it's really cool that we're still using the model that he created to train a town physician...When's the last time you treated a schizophrenic patient for his auditory hallucinations? Or is it just about having enough background knowledge to know when to consult the right service?

Also, saying that "we need to prepare students for ALL specialties!!!" with the current rate of expanding knowledge and specialization is going to continue to expand our training time. Where does it end?

Finally, it's always the surgeon or internist that preaches this stuff. I missed my required rotations in PM&R and radiology, both of which are electives that every student should take. Yeah, not really. My point is, who decides exactly what it is that "ALL" specialties need? You can make an argument for a number of other fields in medicine. The only two required rotations should be IM and surgery. Extended ones at that. You'll figure out from those which direction to go...Be it a surgical path or a medicine based one. Plus, you'll learn more useful information from those two than the four others combined. The extra elective time will help to solidify your career choice, do additional electives in the field, gain knowledge in other fields extremely pertinent to your specialty (ex - nephrology elective for someone who wants to do vascular surgery or vice versa), gain meaningful letters of recommendation, etc.

You're missing (my) the point.

I'm not suggesting you learn the minutiae of every specialty in medical school or that you rotate on every service. As you note, its impossible, even without the ever-expanding knowledge base.

The point of medical school is to learn medicine, to gain a foundation of knowledge and skills that will be applicable to whatever specialty you end up doing. The goal is not to "gain meaningful LORs" and focus on a single specialty. That's what a trade school is for. Why is it always the future radiologist that has this attitude about medical school?

Perhaps that's why you opine that "its always" the two generalist specialties (surgery and IM) that "preach(es) this stuff". We recognize the value of a good foundation in medicine, surgery, psychiatry, ob/gyn and pediatrics (not to mention anatomy, physiology, pathology, etc).

 

[sakata8242]

Any tips for dealing with a girlfriend that is upset about upcoming breast/pelvic exams you will be performing?

At first I thought this was going to be a question about doing a pelvic exam on one's girlfriend....disappointed.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The point of medical school is to learn medicine, to gain a foundation of knowledge and skills that will be applicable to whatever specialty you end up doing. The goal is not to "gain meaningful LORs" and focus on a single specialty. That's what a trade school is for. Why is it always the future radiologist that has this attitude about medical school?

Because so many want to do radiology because they don't like the day to day work involved with actually being a doctor?

 

[DermViser]

We can train nurses to do rads since it is so easy, and you don't really have to have any relevant medical knowledge. Fixed the problem. I should get a medal

Funny to hear about what is "easy" when it comes from someone whose status is a premed.

 

[DermViser]

Because so many want to do radiology because they don't like the day to day work involved with actually being a doctor?

There's a reason that medical students at the top of the class are running in droves to do Radiology, Ophthalmology, Anesthesiology, and Dermatology. It has nothing to do with not wanting to be an "actual doctor" whatever that means.

 

[Lavan]

Learned it. Dominated it. Will never use it again. I'm already through that part, ma'am. Now, I'm championing for everyone else who yet has to experience useless, waste of time rotations. Then again, I'm sure Osler would think it's really cool that we're still using the model that he created to train a town physician...When's the last time you treated a schizophrenic patient for his auditory hallucinations? Or is it just about having enough background knowledge to know when to consult the right service?

Also, saying that "we need to prepare students for ALL specialties!!!" with the current rate of expanding knowledge and specialization is going to continue to expand our training time. Where does it end?

Finally, it's always the surgeon or internist that preaches this stuff. I missed my required rotations in PM&R and radiology, both of which are electives that every student should take. Yeah, not really. My point is, who decides exactly what it is that "ALL" specialties need? You can make an argument for a number of other fields in medicine. The only two required rotations should be IM and surgery. Extended ones at that. You'll figure out from those which direction to go...Be it a surgical path or a medicine based one. Plus, you'll learn more useful information from those two than the four others combined. The extra elective time will help to solidify your career choice, do additional electives in the field, gain knowledge in other fields extremely pertinent to your specialty (ex - nephrology elective for someone who wants to do vascular surgery or vice versa), gain meaningful letters of recommendation, etc.

When I picked rads I thought I was done with pelvic exams. I was not. We still do them. Not just ob sono but HSGs on fluoro. You'll also probably put in rectal coils for prostate MR and rectal tubes for barium enemas. There are less glamorous aspects to every job.

Part of medical school is also learning what it is other doctors do. Every field is full of consult monkeys with no appreciation for what other fields do, what questions constitute a reasonable consult, how to accept reasonable recs, how to appreciate others, how to know when to refer. We don't appreciate each other even though we're supposed to be a team. What you can learn in medical school is enough about everything to utilize resources well and not be part of the problem. And, for someone doing rads, it's part of how to help the clinicians and be a valued consultant and not just a read machine. It's part of how you add value in the new world order where your read is otherwise a commodity.

Those are valuable skills.

 

[Overgrownhobbit]

Funny to hear about what is "easy" when it comes from someone whose status is a premed.

Uhm .... Is your sarcasm meter broken?

 

[ACSurgeon]

When I picked rads I thought I was done with pelvic exams. I was not. We still do them. Not just ob sono but HSGs on fluoro. You'll also probably put in rectal coils for prostate MR and rectal tubes for barium enemas. There are less glamorous aspects to every job.

Part of medical school is also learning what it is other doctors do. Every field is full of consult monkeys with no appreciation for what other fields do, what questions constitute a reasonable consult, how to accept reasonable recs, how to appreciate others, how to know when to refer. We don't appreciate each other even though we're supposed to be a team. What you can learn in medical school is enough about everything to utilize resources well and not be part of the problem. And, for someone doing rads, it's part of how to help the clinicians and be a valued consultant and not just a read machine. It's part of how you add value in the new world order where your read is otherwise a commodity.

Those are valuable skills.

I'll echo this. I certainly bonus a lot of ideas off radiology with atypical presentations that I'm consulted on. Radiologists are very knowledgable about the radiographic presentation of most diseases, and it's helpful to discuss consults with them as a clinician to formulate my differential.

 

[Rendar5]

And if you don't tell them exactly what you're looking for, they will miss things =p had 2 CT's last night where I saw a pathologic gallbladder that was not even mentioned by the radiologist. both had a description asking for a different evaluation. 1st was to look for a mass (horrific looking GB already seen on u/s before), second was to eval for aortic dissection in pt with chest pain and abdominal pain (mild GB wall haziness). Both reports really did address the question asked on the order summary, there just happened to be a secondary process.

As a corollary, though, the ones with good clinical knowledge are freaking invaluable and are good at directing the type of study and catching things you didn't even think to look for that are far back on your differential.

 

[Shjanzey]

Funny to hear about what is "easy" when it comes from someone whose status is a premed.

I always love the posts of people further along the medical career path, whose only put down is the word "premed". I have a 10 year career of Engineering behind me and I start Med School in July. I am light years ahead of you in just about anything dealing with technology. Somehow I don't feel the need to put you down for it, or "put you in your place." Go ahead and call me premed, I am sure it makes you feel better about your rock solid position above me, however I must warn you. You may need some tissue, because nosebleeds are more common up there where the air is so thin.

 

[DermViser]

I always love the posts of people further along the medical career path, whose only put down is the word "premed". I have a 10 year career of Engineering behind me and I start Med School in July. I am light years ahead of you in just about anything dealing with technology. Somehow I don't feel the need to put you down for it, or "put you in your place." Go ahead and call me premed, I am sure it makes you feel better about your rock solid position above me, however I must warn you. You may need some tissue, because nosebleeds are more common up there where the air is so thin.

I could give a 2 ****s if you had 40 years of engineering experience. Medicine is NOTHING like engineering, which you'll figure out when the freight train hits you during your first 2 years, and if not then, then in your MS-3 year. Premeds when commenting about what certain specialties entail, usually show their ignorance as you did with your comment, "We can train nurses to do rads since it is so easy, and you don't really have to have any relevant medical knowledge", which is utter BS.

 

[Shjanzey]

I could give a 2 ****s if you had 40 years of engineering experience. Medicine is NOTHING like engineering, which you'll figure out when the freight train hits you during your first 2 years, and if not then, then in your MS-3 year. Premeds when commenting about what certain specialties entail, usually show their ignorance as you did with your comment, "We can train nurses to do rads since it is so easy, and you don't really have to have any relevant medical knowledge", which is utter BS.

Slow your roll my friend. My post was not made in ignorance, it was made in sarcasm. The mere thought of a nurse doing rads is laughable. My post is actually quite hilarious when you think about it, because it is such a horrifying thought. You must be a rads physician to get so worked up about this.

You don't have to lecture me about "how it will be." I married a physician, I know what I am getting into. I have seen her through the training process, now it is my turn. You are right about medicine being nothing like Engineering. It takes more intellect, more critical thinking, and more work to be an Engineer. Watching the other premeds struggle with their easy non-engineering science courses was amusing.

 

[DermViser]

Slow your roll my friend. My post was not made in ignorance, it was made in sarcasm. The mere thought of a nurse doing rads is laughable. My post is actually quite hilarious when you think about it, because it is such a horrifying thought. You must be a rads physician to get so worked up about this.

You don't have to lecture me about "how it will be." I married a physician, I know what I am getting into. I have seen her through the training process, now it is my turn. You are right about medicine being nothing like Engineering. It takes more intellect, more critical thinking, and more work to be an Engineer. Watching the other premeds struggle with their easy non-engineering science courses was amusing.

Wow, you actually think medicine (I'm talking about actual REAL medicine. Not premed coursework, not basic science coursework) doesn't involve intellect and critical thinking? You won't be competing with those who faltered in their premed coursework. If those people did in fact falter in those courses and made it to medical school they will easily be the bottom of your class or fail out. You will be really competing with those who aced their premed coursework in medical school. I guess you think computers could do what doctors do: enter symptoms --> get lab test and imaging --> get the diagnosis (after all there is no intellect or critical thinking right?). Good luck, you'll need it.

 

[Shjanzey]

Wow, you actually think medicine (I'm talking about actual REAL medicine. Not premed coursework, not basic science coursework) doesn't involve intellect and critical thinking? You won't be competing with those who faltered in their premed coursework. If those people did in fact falter in those courses and made it to medical school they will easily be the bottom of your class or fail out. You will be really competing with those who aced their premed coursework in medical school. I guess you think computers could do what doctors do: enter symptoms --> get lab test and imaging --> get the diagnosis (after all there is no intellect or critical thinking right?). Good luck, you'll need it.

That is easy for you, someone not initiated into the world of Engineering, to say. Someone who isn't even a pre-engineer dares lecture me about "how it is" in the real world? Please, while you memorize facts so that you can regurgitate it on the USMLE, the Engineers are learning theory. Theory which cannot be regurgitated, but must be mastered, learned, and applied (application is not regurgitation) in order to create a novel technology. It seems the MD's usually get around to application of theory when they do residency.

You make it sound like acing premed courses is hard. I did that while holding a full time job. Most of those people you mentioned who were oh so successful in their undergrad are coming from an easy major and were probably full time students. They never had to stay up for days at a time in the lab just to get their project done, only to still have finals to study for. As soon as they start med school they will find the increased work load of having to study more than three hours a day, "really hard." I am looking forward to it. This will be a well needed vacation from the 100 hour weeks I have been putting in over the last several years.

You don't need to reply. I am just goofing around. This discussion just makes me laugh

 

[evilbooyaa]

That is easy for you, someone not initiated into the world of Engineering, to say. Someone who isn't even a pre-engineer dares lecture me about "how it is" in the real world? Please, while you memorize facts so that you can regurgitate it on the USMLE, the Engineers are learning theory. Theory which cannot be regurgitated, but must be mastered, learned, and applied (application is not regurgitation) in order to create a novel technology. It seems the MD's usually get around to application of theory when they do residency.

You make it sound like acing premed courses is hard. I did that while holding a full time job. Most of those people you mentioned who were oh so successful in their undergrad are coming from an easy major and were probably full time students. They never had to stay up for days at a time in the lab just to get their project done, only to still have finals to study for. As soon as they start med school they will find the increased work load of having to study more than three hours a day, "really hard." I am looking forward to it. This will be a well needed vacation from the 100 hour weeks I have been putting in over the last several years.

You don't need to reply. I am just goofing around. This discussion just makes me laugh

I just want you to re-read this post in a year or whenever you're about 6 months into MS-1. Everyone talks about how easy it is to transition into medical school before they actually start medical school. Maybe you'll be the outlier.

 

[EMe]

I could give a 2 ****s if you had 40 years of engineering experience. Medicine is NOTHING like engineering, which you'll figure out when the freight train hits you during your first 2 years, and if not then, then in your MS-3 year. Premeds when commenting about what certain specialties entail, usually show their ignorance as you did with your comment, "We can train nurses to do rads since it is so easy, and you don't really have to have any relevant medical knowledge", which is utter BS.

I have to stop in here and say that just because medical school was that hard for you, the same is not at all true for everyone else.

I had an extremely easy time throughout school, didn't go to class the first two years, and am in the top 10 in my class with 260+/260+ on steps 1&2 after studying 3 weeks for step 1 and about 8 days for step 2. It's hard to imagine something so difficult for you would be no big deal to another individual, but guess what - it happens. You have no idea who this guy is. It is entirely possible that he can walk in and breeze through school.

As an aside I would agree that the two fields are nothing at all alike. However, to say that theory behind engineering is anything to laugh at is ridiculous.

 

[Psai]

That is easy for you, someone not initiated into the world of Engineering, to say. Someone who isn't even a pre-engineer dares lecture me about "how it is" in the real world? Please, while you memorize facts so that you can regurgitate it on the USMLE, the Engineers are learning theory. Theory which cannot be regurgitated, but must be mastered, learned, and applied (application is not regurgitation) in order to create a novel technology. It seems the MD's usually get around to application of theory when they do residency.

You make it sound like acing premed courses is hard. I did that while holding a full time job. Most of those people you mentioned who were oh so successful in their undergrad are coming from an easy major and were probably full time students. They never had to stay up for days at a time in the lab just to get their project done, only to still have finals to study for. As soon as they start med school they will find the increased work load of having to study more than three hours a day, "really hard." I am looking forward to it. This will be a well needed vacation from the 100 hour weeks I have been putting in over the last several years.

You don't need to reply. I am just goofing around. This discussion just makes me laugh

You sure know a lot about the USMLE and medical students

 

[shenanigi]

You sure know a lot about the USMLE and medical students

His wife is a physician?

 

[jakeislove]

Pelvic exams are just a part of what you learn in school.

I'm prone to self-amusement and known for poor impulse control. Resisting the urge to say "I feel guilty for not buying you dinner first" or something else equally amusing wrong takes so much energy that prostate exams are exhausting, LOL!

I'm just goofy. Realizing no one wants to hear a joke during some exams makes them internally funny and the pressure builds.....

DGF could care less about me doing about pelvic exams. She's likely amused as heck about how much work staying out of trouble will be during my upcoming OBGYN rotation.

It takes all kinds in medicine. For me: They're just not sexual/sensual, in that context. The situation can occasionally be amusing, though. Nobody's perfect.

 

[Psai]

His wife is a physician?

So he's a physician by the transitive property I suppose.

 

[shenanigi]

So he's a physician by the transitive property I suppose.

Are you married? Knowing what your partner is going through is part of the process.

 

[DermViser]

That is easy for you, someone not initiated into the world of Engineering, to say. Someone who isn't even a pre-engineer dares lecture me about "how it is" in the real world? Please, while you memorize facts so that you can regurgitate it on the USMLE, the Engineers are learning theory. Theory which cannot be regurgitated, but must be mastered, learned, and applied (application is not regurgitation) in order to create a novel technology. It seems the MD's usually get around to application of theory when they do residency.

You make it sound like acing premed courses is hard. I did that while holding a full time job. Most of those people you mentioned who were oh so successful in their undergrad are coming from an easy major and were probably full time students. They never had to stay up for days at a time in the lab just to get their project done, only to still have finals to study for. As soon as they start med school they will find the increased work load of having to study more than three hours a day, "really hard." I am looking forward to it. This will be a well needed vacation from the 100 hour weeks I have been putting in over the last several years.

You don't need to reply. I am just goofing around. This discussion just makes me laugh

Wow, your reading comprehension is so poor it's not even funny.

- First off, as far as telling you "how it is" in the real world, I have actually finished medical school, unlike yourself. If you think memorization and regurgitation is the key to getting a high score on the USMLE, you can forget it. Memorization will maybe get you a passing score, but definitely not a high score, after all exams have to have some gimme questions.

-When I'm talking about "actual real medicine" - I'm not talking about taking multiple choice exams - which you obviously thought I was referring to. Medicine is MUCH MORE than sitting in a classroom, taking notes, memorizing and regurgitating, and taking multiple choice exams. In your stupidity, you thought I was referring to the USMLE exams, which is the bare minimum to even have a medical license. I was referring to the MS-3 clinical year, in which your clinical competency and skill is thoroughly evaluated to apply for residency, as well as residency training itself.

-I never said "acing premed courses is hard", I was actually saying the EXACT OPPOSITE. Go read my post again. The real med students you are competing with are the ones who aced their premed coursework which was a cakewalk for them and are overall conscientious students. Realize many undergrad students have taken AP Biology, AP Chemistry, and AP Physics in HIGH SCHOOL -- which are 3 out of the 4 required premed courses. These introductory survey courses are a cakewalk for them. These courses are child's play esp. in comparison to medical school basic science coursework, which is why GPA in these courses are so important, bc med school admissions feel if you aren't able to handle these "simple" courses, then you won't be able to handle much more in depth and detailed basic science coursework.

As far as the number of hours to put in, no actual medical student (who is serious) thinks that they will only put in 3 hours a day to study. As far as your "100 hr. weeks" --- you will figure out how hard and how many hours you will pour into medical school - when it comes to MS-1/MS-2, the nerve-wracking USMLE, the brutal clinical years, and residency. You seem to have everything figured out already - so feel free to look back at your post in 4 years - to see how full of it and naive you really were.

 

[EMe]

Wow, your reading comprehension is so poor it's not even funny.
- First off, as far as telling you "how it is" in the real world, I have actually finished medical school, unlike yourself. If you think memorization and regurgitation is the key to getting a high score on the USMLE, you can forget it. Memorization will maybe get you a passing score, but definitely not a high score, after all exams have to have some gimme questions.
-When I'm talking about "actual real medicine" - I'm not talking about taking multiple choice exams - which you obviously thought I was referring to. Medicine is MUCH MORE than sitting in a classroom, taking notes, memorizing and regurgitating, and taking multiple choice exams. In your stupidity, you thought I was referring to the USMLE exams, which is the bare minimum to even have a medical license. I was referring to the MS-3 clinical year, in which your clinical competency and skill is thoroughly evaluated to apply for residency, as well as residency training itself.
-I never said "acing premed courses is hard", I was actually saying the EXACT OPPOSITE. Go read my post again. The real med students you are competing with are the ones who aced their premed coursework which was a cakewalk for them and are overall conscientious students. Realize many undergrad students have taken AP Biology, AP Chemistry, and AP Physics in HIGH SCHOOL -- which are 3 out of the 4 required premed courses. These introductory survey courses are a cakewalk for them. These courses are child's play esp. in comparison to medical school basic science coursework, which is why GPA in these courses are so important, bc med school admissions feel if you aren't able to handle these "simple" courses, then you won't be able to handle much more in depth and detailed basic science coursework.
As far as the number of hours to put in, no actual medical student (who is serious) thinks that they will only put in 3 hours a day to study. As far as your "100 hr. weeks" --- you will figure out how hard and how many hours you will pour into medical school - when it comes to MS-1/MS-2, the nerve-wracking USMLE, the brutal clinical years, and residency. You seem to have everything figured out already - so feel free to look back at your post in 4 years - to see how full of it and naive you really were.

No med student puts in less than three hours per day? See above. Another example of how your own experience distorts your perception.
The first two years, maybe an hour or so a day. A few days before a test bump that up to 3-4. Third year, maybe two days out from a shelf. Fourth year, where's the beer?

That intensive regimen got me AOA at a US school.

 

[DermViser]

I have to stop in here and say that just because medical school was that hard for you, the same is not at all true for everyone else.

I had an extremely easy time throughout school, didn't go to class the first two years, and am in the top 10 in my class with 260+/260+ on steps 1&2 after studying 3 weeks for step 1 and about 8 days for step 2. It's hard to imagine something so difficult for you would be no big deal to another individual, but guess what - it happens. You have no idea who this guy is. It is entirely possible that he can walk in and breeze through school.

As an aside I would agree that the two fields are nothing at all alike. However, to say that theory behind engineering is anything to laugh at is ridiculous.

My reference to talking about "I could give a 2 ****s if you had 40 years of engineering experience" was in reference to him saying " I have a 10 year career of Engineering behind me and I start Med School in July. I am light years ahead of you in just about anything dealing with technology," as if this somehow gives him an advantage in medicine (which it doesn't) or knowing what it will entail (which it also doesn't). Working in a completely different career sector gives him no idea on how hard medical school and medicine in general will be, and the REAL level of investment and true sacrifice it will take, both from time, money, delayed gratification, etc.

 

[DermViser]

No med student puts in less than three hours per day? See above. Another example of how your own experience distorts your perception.
The first two years, maybe an hour or so a day. A few days before a test bump that up to 3-4. Third year, maybe two days out from a shelf. Fourth year, where's the beer?

That intensive regimen got me AOA at a US school.

You are obviously very much an outlier - as most medical students after a full day of lecture, need much more than 1 hr. to cover everything they were taught that day - whether it's to pass or get honors. While you may have photographic memory, most don't that capability.

 

[chasm-e-baddoor]

make it up to her by giving her an "extra special" pelvic exam

 

[JoshSt]

You are right about medicine being nothing like Engineering. It takes more intellect, more critical thinking, and more work to be an Engineer. Watching the other premeds struggle with their easy non-engineering science courses was amusing.

So why are you "downgrading" yourself to be a physician?

 

[windog]

Maybe find a new girlfriend? My husband is now a 4th yr med student and I never once had an issue with him doing his rotations that involved the female anatomy.

 

[Shjanzey]

My reference to talking about "I could give a 2 ****s if you had 40 years of engineering experience" was in reference to him saying " I have a 10 year career of Engineering behind me and I start Med School in July. I am light years ahead of you in just about anything dealing with technology," as if this somehow gives him an advantage in medicine (which it doesn't) or knowing what it will entail (which it also doesn't). Working in a completely different career sector gives him no idea on how hard medical school and medicine in general will be, and the REAL level of investment and true sacrifice it will take, both from time, money, delayed gratification, etc.

I think you are reading what I wrote incorrectly. I didn't state that to give myself credibility when discussing the medical field. It was to illustrate how stupid you sound when you call others "premed" and put yourself on a pedestal. The funny thing is, you actually took the words right out of my mouth and said it plainly. "I could give two ****s if you had 40 years of engineering experience." That is exactly what I was thinking, "I could give two ****s if you have finished medical school."

The error you made while being so condescending is that you have assumed that I am incapable of figuring out for myself how medical school will be. For some reason there is this grandiose idea carried by many medical students, that you actually have to be inside medical school to suddenly have a realization of how it is going to be. Somehow a great secret will be revealed and then you will realize just how wrong you were. I don't agree. I have been reading medical student's accounts on their learning experience for several years. I have lived with a medical student for years, and I have also volunteered with medical students for years. I feel confident in saying that I know way more than the average premed going into medical school.

In a previous post someone sarcastically said I know a lot about USMLE as a premed. You are right I do. I have helped several IMGs prepare, by helping them through terminology in their qBanks, by clarifying specific English terms/grammar. Once again I have a significant other who prepared for it so I have been exposed to all sides of it barring actually doing the prep-work myself. I have also been exposed to the real world where I had to work long long hours to get something accomplished, where I had a boss and responsibilities over million dollar projects, which is way more stressful than a third year on rotations who really isn't responsible for any patients. Working hard isn't exclusive to medicine, so it is very disingenuous to say only a medical student really understands it.

 

[SouthSideSteve]

You don't have to lecture me about "how it will be." I married a physician, I know what I am getting into.

 

[Shjanzey]

Why do you think that is so funny? You think it is impossible to learn via observation, or you just want to stick up for the other guy?

 

[Wordead]

Why do you think that is so funny? You think it is impossible to learn via observation, or you just want to stick up for the other guy?

It's an arrogant as **** statement that is rather devoid of self awareness, that's all. A normal person would accept that they don't know what they don't know. It's akin to me saying I know exactly what residency will be like because I work with residents all day and hang out with them. I don't. You don't.

And I was a BME for 3 years before medical school - it's a wildly different skillset, so I'd probably hesitate before giving myself a pat on the back for being such an awesome engineer if I were you. Most of the engineers I know in med school are doing well, but there are definitely some that have a hard time adjusting.

And claiming you know anything about the USMLEs pretty much just destroys any remaining credibility you might have had.

 

[SouthSideSteve]

It's an arrogant as **** statement that is rather devoid of self awareness, that's all. A normal person would accept that they don't know what they don't know. It's akin to me saying I know exactly what residency will be like because I work with residents all day and hang out with them. I don't. You don't.

And I was a BME for 3 years before medical school - it's a wildly different skillset, so I'd probably hesitate before giving myself a pat on the back for being such an awesome engineer if I were you. Most of the engineers I know in med school are doing well, but there are definitely some that have a hard time adjusting.

And claiming you know anything about the USMLEs pretty much just destroys any remaining credibility you might have had.

^^ this

 

[Psai]

Lol you helped some imgs with some words so now you're a step 1 expert. Your wife took step 1 so now you're basically a medical student. I guess Melinda Gates is gonna come out with a new version of Microsoft soon

 

[evilbooyaa]

I think you are reading what I wrote incorrectly. I didn't state that to give myself credibility when discussing the medical field. It was to illustrate how stupid you sound when you call others "premed" and put yourself on a pedestal. The funny thing is, you actually took the words right out of my mouth and said it plainly. "I could give two ****s if you had 40 years of engineering experience." That is exactly what I was thinking, "I could give two ****s if you have finished medical school."

The error you made while being so condescending is that you have assumed that I am incapable of figuring out for myself how medical school will be. For some reason there is this grandiose idea carried by many medical students, that you actually have to be inside medical school to suddenly have a realization of how it is going to be. Somehow a great secret will be revealed and then you will realize just how wrong you were. I don't agree. I have been reading medical student's accounts on their learning experience for several years. I have lived with a medical student for years, and I have also volunteered with medical students for years. I feel confident in saying that I know way more than the average premed going into medical school.

In a previous post someone sarcastically said I know a lot about USMLE as a premed. You are right I do. I have helped several IMGs prepare, by helping them through terminology in their qBanks, by clarifying specific English terms/grammar. Once again I have a significant other who prepared for it so I have been exposed to all sides of it barring actually doing the prep-work myself. I have also been exposed to the real world where I had to work long long hours to get something accomplished, where I had a boss and responsibilities over million dollar projects, which is way more stressful than a third year on rotations who really isn't responsible for any patients. Working hard isn't exclusive to medicine, so it is very disingenuous to say only a medical student really understands it.

This is some of the most (simultaneously) gramatically correct yet horrendously incorrect dribble I've ever heard on these forums.

Living with a physician = knowing what med school is? Until you have to sit down and learn the material yourself (not 'watch' someone else learn it), you don't know what med school is like. It is massively stupid to think otherwise.

Helping IMGs learn english and terminology = know more about the USMLE? You state that you know a lot about the USMLE but you state what you know almost nothing about the USMLE. You haven't done the prep-work yourself

You ignoring the advice of those who have (or are in the process of) completed med school would be analogous to me being a freshman in an undergrad engineering class ignoring advice from a guest speaker who has been working in the field for 10 years. Why? Because 'I've totally lived with engineers before, so I know what the life is like, kthx'.

Some people may have been, but I'm not saying that ONLY a medical student knows how to work hard. That's definitely false. What we're saying is that you should not walk into medical school thinking it's NOT going to be hard. On the off-chance that it is, it will eat you alive for a short time. If you walk in thinking this might be really difficult, you will be more willing to adapt on the fly (especially in study techniques) rather than staying with what worked for you in the past.

 

[Shjanzey]

This is some of the most (simultaneously) gramatically correct yet horrendously incorrect dribble I've ever heard on these forums.

At least I got the grammar right I appreciate your reply, and I agree with many things you said. I feel like maybe we are describing similar things, however I do disagree with a few things. I have never claimed to have a 1:1, 100% understanding of how it will be. I do, however, believe I have a very good understanding of what is waiting for me. So allow me to counter with a few thoughts.

Living with a physician = knowing what med school is?

Yes, that is what I mean. I know what the schedule will be like, I have a pretty good idea of how many hours I will be studying. It will vary for me because I learn differently from my wife. I know what courses I will be taking, and I even have books from a previously matriculated student that gives me an idea of what material will be covered.

Until you have to sit down and learn the material yourself (not 'watch' someone else learn it), you don't know what med school is like. It is massively stupid to think otherwise.

I will disagree with this statement. Having sat down and studied it for myself doesn't mean I can't understand what med school is like. You are now relegating going to med school into some magical fairyland, or possibly a secret society, that only the "initiated" can truly understand. Sitting down and studying isn't some kind of revelation. I have done it before. Just because the volume is greater doesn't somehow make it intrinsically impossible to understand. I think working a full time job, taking classes, and studying for MCAT was probably at or above the workload an average medical student puts in. Many med students I know, actually have the occasional free time. Something I haven't enjoyed for several years. This particular point, however, I am willing to concede because I don't know the exact time requirements I will need, but if this is the scariest part of med school then that is a relief because 80+ hour weeks are old hat to me.

Am I going to learn new ways to study? I think so. Am I going to have difficult times? I think so. Am I going to lose sleep? I think so. Does knowing that somehow mean I don't understand how medical school will be? I don't think so. Does not having all the first year and second year material already memorized somehow make it so I can't understand how medical school will be? I don't think so.

You state that you know a lot about the USMLE but you state what you know almost nothing about the USMLE.

I know the structure, format, and how long it will be. I have read up on how to prepare, and I have even seen questions from qbanks. So I know a lot about the test itself. However I know nothing of the materials covered, because I haven't started med school. OMG that must be shocking. What magical trait does this test possess that makes it impossible for us ******ed non-matriculated people to understand. How ever will I prepare for a test that is impossible to understand until AFTER I take it? I guess I better quit now.

You ignoring the advice of those who have (or are in the process of) completed med school would be analogous to me being a freshman in an undergrad engineering class ignoring advice from a guest speaker who has been working in the field for 10 years. Why? Because 'I've totally lived with engineers before, so I know what the life is like, kthx'.

I love the advice given here. SDN is a very valuable resource that keeps me coming back. I do not appreciate the condescending attitude that is often taken towards those who haven't progressed as far along the journey as others. I can see how it may sound like I am being dismissive, but that is not the case. I feel like some people on this forum have a vested interest in putting people in their place, and making sure that some sort of hierarchy is observed. Saying I cannot understand something that has been well documented by hundreds of others students is hollow and meaningless. It starts to sound petty when you digress into saying that you have to experience it before you really understand. How can you as a doctor truly understand cancer if you have never experienced it? It is observable, repeatable, and understandable. This is simple science, and I think it is fair to say we can describe an appropriate model of the average med student using the same methods.

You guys are all very intelligent and capable people. Rarely do I get a chance to have an online discussion where it doesn't eventually devolve into a reddit-esque troll fest. Even those of you with opposing view-points, I can see what you are saying, and I think that in most cases you are correct. There are people, however, that do strive to do due diligence and understand the repercussions of a life changing decision. I would like to think that in my case I have done just that. At the end of the day, if there is something inherently magical that I simply can't understand I will be the first person to come back here and post about how wrong I was.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'm just going to come out and say it - nothing truly prepares you for what medical school is like. Period. This is not a debatable point. Even living with a medical student doesn't actually do the trick. It would be as foolish as saying "I've watched a lot of shows on the History Channel, I bet I know what combat is like".

That being said, I think we can all agree that med school is neither the hardest thing in the world nor the most time consuming. If you truly have worked and studied as hard as you say, I don't think you'll find med school quite as onerous as some. But, don't delude yourself into thinking you know what its going to be like just from watching others and reading about it.

 

[Dwindlin]

Can someone please explain to me where this belief that is impossible to know what medical training (insert whatever level you wish) is like before having personally experienced it?

I'm not sure how many times this argument has popped up, several times aimed at me personally, and I can honestly say that so far it is wrong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[shenanigi]

Can someone please explain to me where this belief that is impossible to know what medical training (insert whatever level you wish) is like before having personally experienced it?

I'm not sure how many times this argument has popped up, several times aimed at me personally, and I can honestly say that so far it is wrong.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agreed 100%. Medical school is not some mythical land. People like standing up on their soapbox and feeling important.

 

[JoshSt]

You don't have to lecture me about "how it will be." I married a physician, I know what I am getting into. I have seen her through the training process, now it is my turn. You are right about medicine being nothing like Engineering. It takes more intellect, more critical thinking, and more work to be an Engineer. Watching the other premeds struggle with their easy non-engineering science courses was amusing.

I have also been exposed to the real world where I had to work long long hours to get something accomplished, where I had a boss and responsibilities over million dollar projects, which is way more stressful than a third year on rotations who really isn't responsible for any patients.

If you have this attitude, why are you choosing to go through 7 to 9+ years of training (that pays nothing to very little during the training) in a field you claim to be less intellectually fulfilling?

 

[Shjanzey]

If you have this attitude, why are you choosing to go through 7 to 9+ years of training (that pays nothing to very little during the training) in a field you claim to be less intellectually fulfilling?

Good points JoshSt. I was being a bit disingenuous in that first quoted statement. I found the condescending attitude to whoever I was responding to, to be a bit overbearing. The poster gave me the feeling that they think very highly of their own intellect, so I wanted to see how they would react when I challenged it. My suspicion was confirmed.

I honestly don't think one or the other is better or more difficult than the other. They are two different modes of thought. The reason I am willing to spend 7 - 9+ years is because I honestly do not like what I currently do. Academic Engineering is interesting and challenging. Corporate Engineering is tedious, monotonous and more often than not, a waste of time. I want to spend my efforts on something more meaningful.

 

[Psai]

.

 

[touchpause13]

I've been told the workload is similar to that of a ChemE major.

Agree or disagree?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Not to derail the derailing, but anyone know what happened with OP and girlfriend?

 

[evilbooyaa]

Not to derail the derailing, but anyone know what happened with OP and girlfriend?

Oh yeah.

Shjanezy, you make some decent points, and as long as you come a little more moderate with your stance (to I don't know everything about medical school, USMLE, etc. etc.) I'll be able to sleep at night.

Speaking of USMLE, you don't know the type of questions that will be asked (along with the info). It's OK, you'll learn it. Knowing what you know now about USMLE (structure, format, length) is literally < 5 minutes of thought. You think you know how to prepare for it based off what you read. That may work for you, but there are extremely variable ways for people to study for Step 1. You'll find the best method for you as you adapt your studying patterns through the first 2 years.

I don't think med school is the hardest thing in the world, and free time definitely exists throughout all years. I am not debating that point with you.

Having a job, taking classes, and studying for the MCAT concurrently is probably harder than medical school. However, not all of that is pure studying. Imagine spending 2/3 of the time as above but using it only to study. There is a large difference between studying for 4 hours a day and studying 8 hours a day. Motivation is harder to come by, things start to meld together, etc. etc.

Medical school isn't supposed to be scary. It's supposed to be difficult for most people and effort, but school itself doesn't require more than a certain level of intelligence to get through. Hard work is usually what separates the top from the middle. I would almost argue more intelligence is required to game the system appropriately so you can get admission into medical school in the first place.

There is more than one path through medical school. You've read SDN and thus generally know of one or two paths. The med students that frequent SDN, on average, are NOT average med students.