Give it to me straight

[combatwombat]

I finished my undergrad with around a 2.77 cGPA, did 3 years of research, and then decided that I wanted to go back and take another swing at the pre-med courses which had discouraged me so much as an undergrad. This time around, I approached my studies with the attitude that my stats were low enough that I had to pull nothing but A's, and that even 1 B+ would tell the adcoms that I had not truly reformed from my slacking undergraduate ways and could never be suited for a medical education. Over 2 years of part-time courses, I actually managed to do just that - I got 5 or 6 A's, 1 A+ and 1 A-, all in either prereq courses or related courses that some schools like to see (namely computer science and English), and my cGPA is now around 3.06 (or roughly 3.35 for DO schools due to retakes).

However, this semester it's clear that I won't be getting an A in organic chemistry. I've worked like a dog but thanks to a silly mistake on the first test and a brutal grading scheme, my average is on the border between B and B-. I may also end up in the B range in my English class.

Have I dug my own grave? Is it time to let go of medicine? I feel that I'd make a great medical student and physician, and that my overall application is quite good except for the GPA. However, I know how competitive it is to get in and do not want to harbor any overly optimistic illusions.

Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. I plan to finish the semester as best I can, but where to go from there I am not sure. FWIW I took the MCAT about 3 weeks ago and expect to get around a 28 +/- 2. I have also been retaking my prereqs at a competitive upper-tier university.

PS Looking back over this post I realize it may seem like I'm trolling. But please don't think I'm whining over getting a single sub-A grade - it's just that I've gotten so many already that I wonder if this one will be the straw that breaks the camels back. From reading SDN I've got the sense that students like me who have a bad UG GPA and are making a 2nd run down the premed gauntlet must have their new transcript be spotless. I just want to know if I should still think of my self as in the running.

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[BNZN32]

I finished my undergrad with around a 2.77 cGPA, did 3 years of research, and then decided that I wanted to go back and take another swing at the pre-med courses which had discouraged me so much as an undergrad. This time around, I approached my studies with the attitude that my stats were low enough that I had to pull nothing but A's, and that even 1 B+ would tell the adcoms that I had not truly reformed from my slacking undergraduate ways and could never be suited for a medical education. Over 2 years of part-time courses, I actually managed to do just that - I got 5 or 6 A's, 1 A+ and 1 A-, all in either prereq courses or related courses that some schools like to see (namely computer science and English), and my cGPA is now around 3.06 (or roughly 3.35 for DO schools due to retakes).

However, this semester it's clear that I won't be getting an A in organic chemistry. I've worked like a dog but thanks to a silly mistake on the first test and a brutal grading scheme, my average is on the border between B and B-. I may also end up in the B range in my English class.

Have I dug my own grave? Is it time to let go of medicine? I feel that I'd make a great medical student and physician, and that my overall application is quite good except for the GPA. However, I know how competitive it is to get in and do not want to harbor any overly optimistic illusions.

Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. I plan to finish the semester as best I can, but where to go from there I am not sure. FWIW I took the MCAT about 3 weeks ago and expect to get around a 28 +/- 2. I have also been retaking my prereqs at a competitive upper-tier university.

PS Looking back over this post I realize it may seem like I'm trolling. But please don't think I'm whining over getting a single sub-A grade - it's just that I've gotten so many already that I wonder if this one will be the straw that breaks the camels back. From reading SDN I've got the sense that students like me who have a bad UG GPA and are making a 2nd run down the premed gauntlet must have their new transcript be spotless. I just want to know if I should still think of my self as in the running.

What were the classes you got As in? If they were Gchem, physics, or upper division sciences, then I'd say you are looking a lot better than before. If this is Ochem1, continue to study your ass off, and get the B. Then you need to get an A in the next one.

Given your grades, I think you need to shoot for at least a 30 w/ to give yourself a really solid shot. 28 is below average for some of the top DO schools, and far below average for most MD schools. You want to be above average in one way or another, and because it gets harder and harder to raise your GPA as you go on, the MCAT is your best bet.

On top of the MCAT score and your recently improved grades, you really need: 1. Extensive clinical experience 2. Volunteering experience 3. Leadership experience. These are what you will use to build your application outside of numbers.ou



You are not a shoe-in by any means. But others (myself included) have overcome early poor performance. If this is what you really want, I think you may have a shot. But get on it, there are lots of very qualified people, and if you want this, you are going to have to compete with them for your spot.

 

[dragonfly99]

Agree with above.
I got a B in organic 1st semester, but I aced the lab (for 1 credit) and aced 2nd semester organic. Orgo is one of the classes that adcoms look at to see if you can hack it academically in med school. Therefore, you need to do as well as possible.
And why are you getting a B in English? Why are you taking English, for that matter?

With your GPA you'll need a >30 MCAT I would think.
If you get 28, you might have a shot at some DO schools, but I think you need to show continued improvement in your grades.

 

[EricH]

+1, make the grades and get 30+ on the MCAT and you have a solid shot at DO schools. MD is gonna be an uphill battle.

 

[combatwombat]

I'm looking at a B in English because, well, it's a strange class. It's not an ordinary intro-level course, but an upper tier one. It's called "Environmental Justice and US Literature" - my only other alternative would have been to take one called "Freshman writing seminar", and I thought this look better on my transcript & be more interesting. I say it's a strange class b/c we have not gotten 1 grade back and there are 3 days left in the semester; our grades will be based primarily on what we've said in class. The professor is an old-school hippie who is pretty cool but has a reputation to be brutal when it comes to grading. I've done my best to contribute in class but I don't feel like I've fit the mold of what she wants to see in her A students.

I'm taking English b/c it's required for my top choice MD school and recommended for many schools.

Here are my recent grades since I started taking undergrad classes again

Psychopharmacology A
Intro to Comp Sci A+
Bio 1 A
Bio 2 A
Computational Principles in biological and cognitive science A
Physics 1 A
Physics 1 Lab A
Physics 2 A
Physics 2 Lab A
Orgo 1 A
Orgo 1 Lab A
Expository Writing A-
Orgo 2 B (projected)
Orgo 2 Lab A (projected)
Env Justice & US Lit B/B+ (projected)

Orgo labs are 0.5 credit; physics labs are 0.25; everything else is 1 credit.
All classes were taken at Tufts except physics (which was taken at University of Southern Maine - omg was that laid back compared to tufts), and Psychopharmacology which was taken at Harvard Extension.

For my complete transcript, see the attached excel sheet. My grades were much worse during undergrad, especially through my first 5 semesters when I didn't know what I was doing.

FWIW My current plan is to apply to 4-5 SMP's, 1 MD school and at least 1 DO school in May. I know the MD school is a hail mary, but my significant other is insisting on it as anything else may mean I have to move out. I'd much rather go to a DO school than do an SMP and then try to get into an MD program - I'm getting kinda fed up with the pre-med lifestyle.

I have no idea what how my MCAT will turn out. My scores on practice tests have ranged from a 24 (diagnostic) to a 33 (which was on FL3, one of the easier kaplan practice tests).

Thanks again for the advice. Dragonfly I think it was your advice that motivated me to get as far as I have

 

[BNZN32]

Are those Bio classes upper division? If not, I would eschew the post-bacc, and just take some upper division bio classes and make sure to get As. This is much cheaper, and much less risky than many of the formal post-baccs.

If you are serious about getting in this cycle then you need to apply to way more than 1 MD and 1 DO school. That is a recipe for zero acceptances. Apply to as many of each as you can afford. Apply early.

 

[Nasrudin]

I'm looking at a B in English because, well, it's a strange class. It's not an ordinary intro-level course, but an upper tier one. It's called "Environmental Justice and US Literature" - my only other alternative would have been to take one called "Freshman writing seminar", and I thought this look better on my transcript & be more interesting. I say it's a strange class b/c we have not gotten 1 grade back and there are 3 days left in the semester; our grades will be based primarily on what we've said in class. The professor is an old-school hippie who is pretty cool but has a reputation to be brutal when it comes to grading. I've done my best to contribute in class but I don't feel like I've fit the mold of what she wants to see in her A students.


FWIW My current plan is to apply to 4-5 SMP's, 1 MD school and at least 1 DO school in May. I know the MD school is a hail mary, but my significant other is insisting on it as anything else may mean I have to move out. I'd much rather go to a DO school than do an SMP and then try to get into an MD program - I'm getting kinda fed up with the pre-med lifestyle.

What is up. Nothing sage to say. Just really related to your state of mind and have similar personal situationals.

Ah yess..hehe...the old hippie lit professors. Combing the ranks for their own ideologies and rewarding likeness with superlatives. Some **** never changes. Environmental justice in American lit... it takes a literary techno-bureaucrat to even come up with that kind of BS.

And yeah. Right on. F@ck droppin 50 G's for an SMP. DO schools all the way. Unless your dead set on ortho surgery, opthamology, or some other slick ****. And can I get a witness.... Premeds... like.... we can't move ahead as a species...until...they and they're kind...are gone...f'n extinct.

The people that religiously adhere to the pure principles of scaling career ladders with concern for little else...they're like the worst mf'ers I can think of to hang with. And probably not much better to man a medical service along side them.

Unfortunately. To make it in this game. Part of your soul gets sucked into it. Gets pummeled. Hang on friend. Just make it through the round. wrap em up and lean on the ropes.

 

[gman33]

You said you wanted it straight...

Forget about MD schools. You need a couple more years UG + SMP to be competitive. Not worth it in my opinion.

Focus on DO schools. Retake a few poor classes and get the GPA to around 3.5. I'd even apply this year with the current stats. With a decent MCAT you should get some interviews. I'd plan on taking some more UG courses during the application cycle in case you don't get in this time, you will have a stronger app for the next cycle.

 

[dragonfly99]

That sucks about the English class. I hate professors like that...stupid to only give out the grade @the end of the class, and for the grading to be that subjective. Just asinine.

Your grades since you went back look pretty O.K. Your undergrad GPA sucked, which will majorly hurt you for MD schools in the US.

I'd be curious to see you repost when you get your MCAT score.

I don't think you are competitive for US MD schools right now, but stranger things have happened. Depending on your MCAT score, it might be worthwhile to try applying to all your state MD schools, and you could maybe try Tufts, just to see if they will bit (not sure what there average GPA and MCAT scores are there...). Other than that, I think you should apply to a bunch of DO schools. I'm with you on not wanting to do a SMP or postbac...it would take a long time to pull up the overall GPA and I'm not sure you can get it high enough for US MD schools. You could get into Caribbean med schools if your MCAT comes out semi-OK, but it probably might be better just to go DO.

I hope you have some good clinical experience, b/c you'll need that for the DO schools I would think.

 

[combatwombat]

Good news: My MCAT scores just came back and I got a 32M (10V, 9P, 13B). Not sure how I did that badly on the WS, but I have pretty good grades in english classes and a publication. Also, my PS score was always at least 10 on practice tests, so I was a little surprised with the 9. But on the other hand, this was my first 10 on the verbal section so I don't think I will retake. Still waiting for my orgo II and english grades to come back.

Bad news: The GPA numbers I gave previously were a bit off. After this semester, I predict my AMCAS GPA will actually be around 3.05 (3.02 BCMP), AACOMAS 3.18 (3.22 BCMP). Could I still have a shot at DO programs for fall of 2011? Should I even try MD schools?

Do you think I'll have a good chance at getting into SMP's at Tufts and BU? (not particularly excited about doing a year in a SMP, especially if I'll have to repeat it when/if I get into a medical school, but I'm planning on applying anyways).

 

[punkiedad]

Good news: My MCAT scores just came back and I got a 32M (10V, 9P, 13B). Not sure how I did that badly on the WS, but I have pretty good grades in english classes and a publication. Also, my PS score was always at least 10 on practice tests, so I was a little surprised with the 9. But on the other hand, this was my first 10 on the verbal section so I don't think I will retake. Still waiting for my orgo II and english grades to come back.

Bad news: The GPA numbers I gave previously were a bit off. After this semester, I predict my AMCAS GPA will actually be around 3.05 (3.02 BCMP), AACOMAS 3.18 (3.22 BCMP). Could I still have a shot at DO programs for fall of 2011? Should I even try MD schools?

Do you think I'll have a good chance at getting into SMP's at Tufts and BU? (not particularly excited about doing a year in a SMP, especially if I'll have to repeat it when/if I get into a medical school, but I'm planning on applying anyways).

Congrats on your MCAT score. 32 is good and you should be proud. I know everyone says that is an average score, but average can be relative to the company that posts, but in the grand sceme of things I think it is good, especially for your first time.

As far as that English Grade, you need to be talking ot this professor every day and kissing his A**. You need to be respectful of his class and show him you care, but also know why you are there. You are not an English major, but a pre med. Show him you have passion, care for his class, but need an A to get into med school. If he is old school, it may help.

I think you have a good shot. I still dont know why the big perception in diffference between DO and MD, but from what I know, your stats are very competitive for DO. But, apply early and broadly. I think you will be fine.

Best of luck to you.....

 

[dragonfly99]

The MCAT score is pretty good. Agree w/above...you should be proud. You did do poorly on the writing sample, but IMHO the adcoms care less about that part. The writing sample IMHO is about whether you write the essay in the format that the test graders want it...this can be learned but right now I'd forget about MCAT for the time being.

I think your GPA will knock you out of the running for US MD schools, though no harm in trying your state MD schools when you apply. I think you should focus on DO schools, b/c they like nontrads and it seems they are more forgiving about GPA's.

 

[combatwombat]

The writing sample IMHO is about whether you write the essay in the format that the test graders want it...

I think one of the reasons I tanked was b/c my first prompt actually was an interesting question (it had to do with technology advancing faster than our ability to use it wisely), and I had a hard time addressing it in the cut-and-dry format they want. It felt almost preposterous to try to address a topic like that in just 30 minutes.

The second prompt was a dull business question which I had a much easier time with. Still, I was not expecting to be in the 11-32% range oh well

 

[combatwombat]

OK, so here's where I stand right now:
AMCAS GPA: 3.08 (post-bac GPA ~3.9)
AACOMAS GPA: 3.20
MCAT: 32M (10V 9P 13BS)
Community Service (I'm guessing 60-80 hrs)
Lots of research experience (>2 yrs as research assistant)
Publication
40 hrs ER volunteer experience

Should I even bother applying to US MD programs? I'm looking at about 20 MD programs, and at each one I am at least 4-5 points shy of their LizzyM* score. As I live in Massachusetts my one state school is also a huge reach (UMASS, median MCAT = 33, GPA = 3.69). Is it still worth the work of applying to all of these programs?

*LizzyM score = GPA x 10 + MCAT

 

[CogitoA1]

Yes, you should apply to all 20 MD programs, and a lot more if you can afford it. Obviously DO programs as well, and some SMP programs as well.

Listen: you spent 3 years in research, 2 years working your ass off doing post-bacc coursework, and you've shown enormous improvement. Your MCAT score is good (remember that you were predicting a 28). Upward trends count; your old uGPA is 5 years old and counting. After all that hard work, all that time, you want to start cutting back your effort NOW? Are you insane? You don't play hard for 3 quarters and then decide in the 4th quarter to conserve your energy because you're uncertain about the outcome; you leave everything you've got on the field.

Applying to a ton of schools isn't going to hurt you. The only costs here are your time and the application fees.

The main issue here is that you're worried you won't succeed. Granted, that worry can make it difficult to even apply.

So let me ask you a simple question: Do YOU think you can perform well in an MD program? Do you think you're smart enough? Motivated enough? Disciplined enough? Yes? Then start rolling on the applications. If schools make a mistake in rejecting you, so be it, but make it their mistake and not yours. Yeah, your uGPA is below the median at MD programs. So are half of the uGPAs of the medical students at those MD programs. There's more to your evaluation than that number.

Every non-application is simply a certain rejection.

At the end of the process, you can look over your options and decide. But now is not the time to start cutting back your efforts and husbanding your resources.

 

[nlax30]

Should I even bother applying to US MD programs? I'm looking at about 20 MD programs, and at each one I am at least 4-5 points shy of their LizzyM* score. As I live in Massachusetts my one state school is also a huge reach (UMASS, median MCAT = 33, GPA = 3.69). Is it still worth the work of applying to all of these programs?

*LizzyM score = GPA x 10 + MCAT

If you have the money and time to apply to MD as well then why not? You want to be a physician so if you are able to just apply both MD and DO and see where that gets you.

Just apply broadly to schools you wouldn't mind attending and I think you'd have a decent shot at an acceptance somewhere.

 

[Ailleurs]

Yes, you should apply to all 20 MD programs, and a lot more if you can afford it. Obviously DO programs as well, and some SMP programs as well.

Listen: you spent 3 years in research, 2 years working your ass off doing post-bacc coursework, and you've shown enormous improvement. Your MCAT score is good (remember that you were predicting a 28). Upward trends count; your old uGPA is 5 years old and counting. After all that hard work, all that time, you want to start cutting back your effort NOW? Are you insane? You don't play hard for 3 quarters and then decide in the 4th quarter to conserve your energy because you're uncertain about the outcome; you leave everything you've got on the field.

Applying to a ton of schools isn't going to hurt you. The only costs here are your time and the application fees.

The main issue here is that you're worried you won't succeed. Granted, that worry can make it difficult to even apply.

So let me ask you a simple question: Do YOU think you can perform well in an MD program? Do you think you're smart enough? Motivated enough? Disciplined enough? Yes? Then start rolling on the applications. If schools make a mistake in rejecting you, so be it, but make it their mistake and not yours. Yeah, your uGPA is below the median at MD programs. So are half of the uGPAs of the medical students at those MD programs. There's more to your evaluation than that number.

Every non-application is simply a certain rejection.

At the end of the process, you can look over your options and decide. But now is not the time to start cutting back your efforts and husbanding your resources.

This is an incredibly motivating post. I'm going to go save it so that in the future, when I'm feeling down, I'll read this and also feel motivated myself. You're an amazing motivator

And to the OP, good luck! You should apply. EARLY. As early as possible. And to a lot of schools. Many unexpected things have happened to applications who thought they couldn't achieve

I think half of the people will tell you: no you are not MD worthy (because of the GPA) but the other half will tell you: you will have a tough time.. but you've worked so tough now, why stop now? And even if you don't get into an MD, I think you should reapply, doing something to improve your application, now SHOWING that you STILL have the motivation because this IS what you want!

 

[futureboy]

I know the MD school is a hail mary, but my significant other is insisting on it as anything else may mean I have to move out.

You have to apply to an MD school, or your SO wll make you move out? Or is it that the other school is far enough away that you'll need to move out of town?

 

[combatwombat]

You have to apply to an MD school, or your SO wll make you move out? Or is it that the other school is far enough away that you'll need to move out of town?

State school = right up the street (also where she's in her NP program)

Virtually all of the other schools I'm considering applying to are at least 100 miles away. Me getting in at one of those = me having to move out for at least a year until she finishes her program & can relocate. Not like she's threatening to kick me to the curb if I don't apply

 

[futureboy]

State school = right up the street (also where she's in her NP program)

Virtually all of the other schools I'm considering applying to are at least 100 miles away. Me getting in at one of those = me having to move out for at least a year until she finishes her program & can relocate. Not like she's threatening to kick me to the curb if I don't apply

Ok, got it.

 

[Nasrudin]

Yes, you should apply to all 20 MD programs, and a lot more if you can afford it. Obviously DO programs as well, and some SMP programs as well.

Listen: you spent 3 years in research, 2 years working your ass off doing post-bacc coursework, and you've shown enormous improvement. Your MCAT score is good (remember that you were predicting a 28). Upward trends count; your old uGPA is 5 years old and counting. After all that hard work, all that time, you want to start cutting back your effort NOW? Are you insane? You don't play hard for 3 quarters and then decide in the 4th quarter to conserve your energy because you're uncertain about the outcome; you leave everything you've got on the field.

Applying to a ton of schools isn't going to hurt you. The only costs here are your time and the application fees.

The main issue here is that you're worried you won't succeed. Granted, that worry can make it difficult to even apply.

So let me ask you a simple question: Do YOU think you can perform well in an MD program? Do you think you're smart enough? Motivated enough? Disciplined enough? Yes? Then start rolling on the applications. If schools make a mistake in rejecting you, so be it, but make it their mistake and not yours. Yeah, your uGPA is below the median at MD programs. So are half of the uGPAs of the medical students at those MD programs. There's more to your evaluation than that number.

Every non-application is simply a certain rejection.

At the end of the process, you can look over your options and decide. But now is not the time to start cutting back your efforts and husbanding your resources.

Cut me Mick. Creed's goin down. Nice post.

 

[CogitoA1]

I appreciate the kind words (and I love boxing).

Hang in there OP.

 

[sarjasy]

Haven't been here in a while and I think I've only posted once before, but I want to say that Cogito's post was fantastic. It got me fired up and I'm not even a premed student!

 

[nyc5614]

My sympathies about your lit professor - these guys are ridiculous and need to be annihilated from academia. I was even more fortunate than you and had a BIOLOGY professor who, instead of teaching biology, lectured on the atrocities of capitalist pigs. Seeing as I was a former investment banker, you can guess how I went over with him (although I tried to disguise my former life as much as possible).

If I can give you a couple of tips on spinning your situation to him/her, appeal to his/her bleeding, tree-hugging heart. Obviously you are making some serious sacrifices to take this non-traditional path, and you are also obviously making them not for financial gains (seeing as we have no idea where our healthcare system is going to be by, oh, say JULY of this year), but because you want to help mankind through your, ahem, humanitarian endeavor (yeah, it's okay to ham it up a little. You might even want to try a little rant about how awful insurance companies are - no one likes them! - and mention your volunteer work). Mention getting an 'A' as little as possible, as this will rile his/her radical, anti-establishment ires - in his/her world, "grades aren't supposed to matter." $10 says that he/she says something along the lines of this and wishing that there wasn't a grading system - it's "all about what you learn," you know? And in his/her class, you will learn something very important: new levels of as$-kissing not previously known. Put on some lipstick, my friend. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you!

 

[CogitoA1]

I just have to add... your lit. professor is a ****ing *****. Basing grades primarily on what students say in class is an outstanding way to let numerous biases direct the grading system.

That said, make the most of the time left, if there is any at this point, and see. Use office hours if he or she has them. In comparison to the other grades on your post-bacc transcript, a B in an English course like that isn't going to matter. The course-name practically screams "ideological grading system." A B in English would connect up with a poor showing on the writing sample, but you scored a 10 on the verbal, so no worries. The purpose of that pre-req is essentially to ensure that you can speak and write coherently. No one cares if your thoughts about environmental justice (in an English course no less) fail to wow your professor.

There's a reason why the English Department tends to be the butt of so many jokes in academia, but that's for another day.

The science grades, the discrepancy between your old performance and your new performance, and your MCATS, are going to be the focus.

Now... after you go through this second marathon of applying (don't you dare just apply to one MD program), you're going to be tired and exhausted, and if it comes down to it, you'll want to kill or vomit on the person who suggests you suck it up and go SMP.

That's not the time to decide. That's the time to step and recuperate a little, and think long-term. That's the time to think about residency choices down the road, think about employment after, etc. THEN make a decision, if it comes to it, between SMP and DO.

Right now, it's all about getting applications in early and often. There are fair odds right now that you won't have to make that choice; and each additional application increases your odds.

 

[combatwombat]

Turned out I got an A in the english class. No idea how.

My main problem now is this: if I am applying to MD/DO schools and SMPs, and I hear back from SMPs by August but not until October for MD/DO programs, does that mean I have to either commit to a SMP or just cross my fingers and hope I get into a medical school? Even if I do early decision, I won't hear back until around the same time.

I can't think of any way out of this... it seems like to maximize my chances I'll have to commit to an SMP and work like a dog for another year (even though I'll be repeating the same material next year). The only alternative would be to only apply to MD/DO and just hope I get in somewhere. I was really looking forward to a laid back glide year

 

[Nasrudin]

Turned out I got an A in the english class. No idea how.

My main problem now is this: if I am applying to MD/DO schools and SMPs, and I hear back from SMPs by August but not until October for MD/DO programs, does that mean I have to either commit to a SMP or just cross my fingers and hope I get into a medical school? Even if I do early decision, I won't hear back until around the same time.

I can't think of any way out of this... it seems like to maximize my chances I'll have to commit to an SMP and work like a dog for another year (even though I'll be repeating the same material next year). The only alternative would be to only apply to MD/DO and just hope I get in somewhere. I was really looking forward to a laid back glide year

Wombat. The SMP app cycle is staggered for somebody hedging their bets for the end of a med school app cycle. It's really not set up to apply for first before you apply to medical school. Unless that's your plan. Straight SMP attendees--those not rejected from med school--would apply the same year as they are working on the SMP for the most part. Some the year after.

The tulane ACP, the best value, in my opinion, besides maybe EVMS, actually requires you to have already applied to med school and gotten wait listed.

So your sort of in reverse. If I understand your situation correctly that is.

 

[netminder]

Yes, you should apply to all 20 MD programs, and a lot more if you can afford it. Obviously DO programs as well, and some SMP programs as well.

Listen: you spent 3 years in research, 2 years working your ass off doing post-bacc coursework, and you've shown enormous improvement. Your MCAT score is good (remember that you were predicting a 28). Upward trends count; your old uGPA is 5 years old and counting. After all that hard work, all that time, you want to start cutting back your effort NOW? Are you insane? You don't play hard for 3 quarters and then decide in the 4th quarter to conserve your energy because you're uncertain about the outcome; you leave everything you've got on the field.

Applying to a ton of schools isn't going to hurt you. The only costs here are your time and the application fees.

The main issue here is that you're worried you won't succeed. Granted, that worry can make it difficult to even apply.

So let me ask you a simple question: Do YOU think you can perform well in an MD program? Do you think you're smart enough? Motivated enough? Disciplined enough? Yes? Then start rolling on the applications. If schools make a mistake in rejecting you, so be it, but make it their mistake and not yours. Yeah, your uGPA is below the median at MD programs. So are half of the uGPAs of the medical students at those MD programs. There's more to your evaluation than that number.

Every non-application is simply a certain rejection.

At the end of the process, you can look over your options and decide. But now is not the time to start cutting back your efforts and husbanding your resources.

Wow -- what an inspirational response. This is beautiful. I wanted to go out and hit someone on a football field after this. Well said.

 

[student1799]

Turned out I got an A in the english class. No idea how.

My main problem now is this: if I am applying to MD/DO schools and SMPs, and I hear back from SMPs by August but not until October for MD/DO programs, does that mean I have to either commit to a SMP or just cross my fingers and hope I get into a medical school? Even if I do early decision, I won't hear back until around the same time.

I can't think of any way out of this... it seems like to maximize my chances I'll have to commit to an SMP and work like a dog for another year (even though I'll be repeating the same material next year). The only alternative would be to only apply to MD/DO and just hope I get in somewhere. I was really looking forward to a laid back glide year

I'm not an authority on SMPs, although there are some members who know quite a lot about them. (You might try PM'ing Dr. Midlife, who is one of those people.) But the impression I got is that you don't put in your SMP application until around Dec-Jan, AFTER you've already filed your med school apps (ideally around June) and have some idea of how you're faring in the application process. If you have good luck getting interviews early on, you may put the SMP on the back burner or not do it at all. On the other hand, if you've been acepted at an SMP but haven't had any luck with med schools by May 15th of the following year, then you go ahead and enroll in the SMP.

I'm not exactly sure what your definition of a "laid-back glide year" is, but I'd strongly advise you to line up a good volunteer job for that year and put in as many hours as you can. If your GPA is on the low side (mine was too), a solid record of both medical and non-medical volunteering is one way to demonstrate your commitment and enthusiasm for medicine. I had over 500 hours on my AMCAS app, and got a strong recommendation for an MD whose volunteer program I worked in, which I think really helped me get into med school.

Although I had those hours before the "glide" year, I continued with clinical research work during that time and added a really great community service job tutoring disadvantaged students. App or no app, that tutoring job has been an amazing experience, and I'm really glad I did it.

Good luck with your plans.

 

[combatwombat]

I'm not exactly sure what your definition of a "laid-back glide year" is,

anything that doesn't involve me memorizing information as fast as I can & constantly biting my nails worrying about what grade I will get.

I'm on vacation now but will repost or PM DrMid when I get back home & have a chance to double check all my facts.

 

[melanoleuca]

I finished my undergrad with around a 2.77 cGPA, did 3 years of research, and then decided that I wanted to go back and take another swing at the pre-med courses which had discouraged me so much as an undergrad. This time around, I approached my studies with the attitude that my stats were low enough that I had to pull nothing but A's, and that even 1 B+ would tell the adcoms that I had not truly reformed from my slacking undergraduate ways and could never be suited for a medical education. Over 2 years of part-time courses, I actually managed to do just that - I got 5 or 6 A's, 1 A+ and 1 A-, all in either prereq courses or related courses that some schools like to see (namely computer science and English), and my cGPA is now around 3.06 (or roughly 3.35 for DO schools due to retakes).

However, this semester it's clear that I won't be getting an A in organic chemistry. I've worked like a dog but thanks to a silly mistake on the first test and a brutal grading scheme, my average is on the border between B and B-. I may also end up in the B range in my English class.

Have I dug my own grave? Is it time to let go of medicine? I feel that I'd make a great medical student and physician, and that my overall application is quite good except for the GPA. However, I know how competitive it is to get in and do not want to harbor any overly optimistic illusions.

Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. I plan to finish the semester as best I can, but where to go from there I am not sure. FWIW I took the MCAT about 3 weeks ago and expect to get around a 28 +/- 2. I have also been retaking my prereqs at a competitive upper-tier university.

PS Looking back over this post I realize it may seem like I'm trolling. But please don't think I'm whining over getting a single sub-A grade - it's just that I've gotten so many already that I wonder if this one will be the straw that breaks the camels back. From reading SDN I've got the sense that students like me who have a bad UG GPA and are making a 2nd run down the premed gauntlet must have their new transcript be spotless. I just want to know if I should still think of my self as in the running.

Hi. Just for your information, we are not allowed to "Give it to you straight" on this forum. Apparently only sunshine, puppy dogs, and sweet-scented smoke being blown up your ass is allowed.

Sorry.

 

[Nasrudin]

Hi. Just for your information, we are not allowed to "Give it to you straight" on this forum. Apparently only sunshine, puppy dogs, and sweet-scented smoke being blown up your ass is allowed.

Sorry.

"Ay. What's with this one."

"I think he's a witch"

"Burn him,"

"He's the devil!"

"Make him pay"